Sort Of A Noob Question

[Chilihook 51]

When I first got into R/C there were very few options (that I can recall) for motors for my cars. Now there seems to be dozens of them, if not more!

What should I look for?

I know brushless is much more powerful, but are they too powerful for older cars?

Is it a risk to get a used but tested vintage motor?

Of the motors out now what are recommended? Any to avoid?

What do all the different windings mean?

Sorry to be so out of it on this stuff, I am trying to catch myself up, honestly. :-D

[dready 0]

To the best of my knowledge and quote me if i'm wrong

The Lower the Windings on the motor the faster the rpm so the top speed will be quicker

However a few things to consider before going ahead with a quick motor

Is the car ballraced, a must for a quick motor you need a smooth transmission

Quicker motor means less battery run time. Maybee time to upgrade your cells

Tamiya Battery Connectors aren't the best, deans are a good alternative.

and the most imortant Upgrade your speed controller

That's about all from me

Good motors i have had from past experience

Anything from Peak racing

Trinity make good ones and also Reedy

Hope this is of some help

Regards

Neil

[Lemming 48]

Dready is right, lower windings = more top speed is a good generic (depends on quality of motor) but bear in mind it also means less torque (or power). If you change the motor for a faster one you need to consider the gearing implications. Fitting a fast motor in with standard gearing might actually mean a lower speed as the motor doesn't have enough torque to get to the top speed. Also, hotter motors will reduce run-times.

Brushless is a good bet as long as you don't go mad. Really depends what vehicle it is for (e.g. Top Force needs a Metal Motor Mount first, Manta Ray would need the Top Force prop shaft etc). Very little maintenance compared to a hot brushed motor, which makes them ideal for bashing. Hot brushed motors should really be looked after properly otherwise they will get slower and slower...

Tamiya 23t motors (RZ, BZ, TZ) are good starting points as they are actually faster and have more torque than a standard can (27,000 is rpm versus 17,500 max on a standard silver can). You would definitely be best off ensuring you are running full bearings and an ESC as the first step (before even looking at motor changes) as this will lead to better speed, acceleration and battery time.

As to Tamiya connectors, I have heard horror stories about them, but not had any issues myself running motors down to 12doubles, Novak SS5800 brushless and 14.4v set-ups... Not to say there isn't an issue, but nothing has gone wrong for me at all on the Molex (Tamiya) connectors so far.

Steve

[dready 0]

I knew i forgot something

Well done lemming

Gearing

[Lemming 48]

Thanks Neil,

To be honest you had it all covered unless he goes lower than 17t, but just thought I would add as well...

Cheers

Steve

[dready 0]

Thanks Neil,

To be honest you had it all covered unless he goes lower than 17t, but just thought I would add as well...

Cheers

Steve

You got to go lower than 17t, whats the point otherwise

If your not doing a set of tyres every couple of runs it's not fast enough!!!

I remember putting a 12triple in a cat and doing a set of mini pins in one run must have been mad!!!

[SegaFalcon 0]

Ive got a 15t in the Falcon, control is a fun one though as the RWD can cause nasty skidding on the corners and my Tyres are worn out.

[Lemming 48]

You got to go lower than 17t, whats the point otherwise

If your not doing a set of tyres every couple of runs it's not fast enough!!!

I remember putting a 12triple in a cat and doing a set of mini pins in one run must have been mad!!!

Very true, unless like me you are rusty at driving them, then anything faster than 20mph breaks! 14.4v in a Thundershot resulted in a fair few repairs on only the first 3 runs!

I've now got a 42,00rpm SS5800 in my Top Force (35mph ish = bald tyres) and the Acto Tuned pink motor in the Dyna Storm - 2 runs and the rears are looking done for! Wish the video section was working, I haven't got local copies of the files any more...

Also building a Mitsubishi FTO on an FF01 chassis - got a Novak SS5800 in that too! Should be fun when the bodyshell arrives

Ive got a 15t in the Falcon, control is a fun one though as the RWD can cause nasty skidding on the corners and my Tyres are worn out.

Very true. 4WD with a fast motor is fine, RWD is only for the brave, but FWD is just plain hysterical!

I am however excited with the prospect of my new E-Maxx running 16.8v (should arrive some time in January)

Cheers

Steve

[hedge 314]

Just my recommendation...

If you want to race then there are classes that will define the motor you run / buy check it out and go to your LHS.

If you want to bash then I would go for minimum hassel and buy a brushless mid range motor. Not stock but not top end 3.5 wind either. If you dont have a speed controller to run brushless then look at a black can sport tuned tamiya 540, not much maintenance required (i.e. no need to replace the brushes/springs every 10 runs) and faster than a silver can.

Finally if you are buying second hand brushed motor and you dont have a motor comm lathe, dont do it. Save for a new motor, the comm will probably be bad for 1 of 2 reasons.

1) The person selling has a comm lathe and there is no copper left on the comm

2) The person selling does not have a comm lathe and the comm is so burnt the motor simply wont perform any where near its wind indicates it should

Good luck.

[Chilihook 51]

All right guys, good advice all around! I am going to head to the LHS and chat up the guys there and talk prices, gearing and what I want out of the car.

As to speed controllers - the only kind I ever had as a kid were the ones supplied with the kit. With an ESC, is the 2nd servo eliminated? IDK...

Just looking to have some fun around the yard and the local sand pit, but who's to say that things might not get more serious??? Well, I guess the wife would if she knew how much it could cost...

[Lemming 48]

Hi again Chili,

If you let us know what car you have / or going to get we can be more specific.

An ESC will remove the need for a second servo. It plugs straight into the receiver instead of the throttle servo.

Also, what batteries / chargers have you got. If you can make a list of what you have / are getting in total, people can make some good suggestions on what to get next without spending out unecessary amounts of cash.

All the best

Steve

[Chilihook 51]

Well, I have two cars at the moment with two on the way for Christmas.

I have a Grasshopper that has been worked over quite a bit, but hasn't been touched since 1990. Let's see... it has a Trinity Monster Horsepower motor (not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either), full bearings, aluminum oil-filled coil overs all around, aluminum rims, Parma beetle body, and your standard Tamiya SC and 6-cell 7.2 NiCd battery.

A Boomerang, same motor as the Grasshopper, and stock everywhere else. Untouched since 1990 as well. Both have Airtronics radios.

Been out of the hobby almost twenty years now, but a friend got me back in when he brought in his RC truck to work one day and buzzed it around the parking lot one day. I am really looking forward to working on all these cars and bashing them around the yard and startling my neighbor's cat. My 2-year-old will get a real hoot out of them too!

Coming for Christmas is a Fox for a resto-mod and a TT01 Ford Focus WRC car. The Fox has tons of other stuff with it, but needs to be overhauled before it goes anywhere. The Focus is a blank slate. That's it... for now, but want to modify, collect and maybe *yikes* race at some point.

Appreciate all the good suggestions guys, thanks!

-Mike

[Live Steam Mad 17]

Dready is right, lower windings = more top speed is a good generic (depends on quality of motor) but bear in mind it also means less torque (or power).

Excellent info's, just one small point, yes lower turn = less torque (due to lower cross sectional area of wire) but MORE (horse) power since thicker wire allows a lot more current to flow (more AMPS).

Also don't allow the motor to run so hot that the brushes start to discolour going back from the tip, check them now again (it's easy but make sure not to chip them, handle with care). If they are not lovely copper colour then you are overheating the motor and it will destroy the commutator eventually. The other main problem from heat is the magnets, extreme heat kills the magnets and you end up with a slow, damaged motor with weak magnets. If this is starting to happen, back off on the gear ratio (make it a higher ratio, smaller pinion needed).

ALi. G.

[Lemming 48]

Well, I have two cars at the moment with two on the way for Christmas.

I have a Grasshopper that has been worked over quite a bit, but hasn't been touched since 1990. Let's see... it has a Trinity Monster Horsepower motor (not the cheapest, but not the most expensive either), full bearings, aluminum oil-filled coil overs all around, aluminum rims, Parma beetle body, and your standard Tamiya SC and 6-cell 7.2 NiCd battery.

A Boomerang, same motor as the Grasshopper, and stock everywhere else. Untouched since 1990 as well. Both have Airtronics radios.

Been out of the hobby almost twenty years now, but a friend got me back in when he brought in his RC truck to work one day and buzzed it around the parking lot one day. I am really looking forward to working on all these cars and bashing them around the yard and startling my neighbor's cat. My 2-year-old will get a real hoot out of them too!

Coming for Christmas is a Fox for a resto-mod and a TT01 Ford Focus WRC car. The Fox has tons of other stuff with it, but needs to be overhauled before it goes anywhere. The Focus is a blank slate. That's it... for now, but want to modify, collect and maybe *yikes* race at some point.

Appreciate all the good suggestions guys, thanks!

-Mike

Just have to wait for someone with more knowledge of the cars in question now. Not run a Grasshopper since I was 16 (16 years ago now!) and the boomerang was a dream at the time. Not sure on the fox, but the TT-01 could be set-up easily. They are good fun for a fast basher! As before, full bearings and ESC are stage 1. If you get a reasonable ESC (say 15t or lower) then you have scope to play.

Excellent info's, just one small point, yes lower turn = less torque (due to lower cross sectional area of wire) but MORE (horse) power since thicker wire allows a lot more current to flow (more AMPS).

Also don't allow the motor to run so hot that the brushes start to discolour going back from the tip, check them now again (it's easy but make sure not to chip them, handle with care). If they are not lovely copper colour then you are overheating the motor and it will destroy the commutator eventually. The other main problem from heat is the magnets, extreme heat kills the magnets and you end up with a slow, damaged motor with weak magnets. If this is starting to happen, back off on the gear ratio (make it a higher ratio, smaller pinion needed).

ALi. G.

Very good information, obviously from a racer! The Horse Power thing can confuse some members though, so I normally refer to Torque as Power to enable people to understand that a faster motor has less pulling power. A good example was my Gecko Clod. Twin 23t (retimed) BZ motors - could crawl up slopes up to 60 degrees without issues, now with 45t lathe motors it can crawl 90 degree plus with ease! Slower but more pulling power. Same as real cars really, more HP (lower windings) = higher top end pull, more torque (higher windings) = better low-mid range pull. A good example of this is the performance of TDI Golfs, better initial pull, better motorway acceleration but shorter gears as it can't rev as high as the Petrol version.

Cheers

Steve