Dual Hunter

[Pavster]

I have read what people are saying but honestly I don't understand a word of it!! I'm a bit new to upgrading so needed help. I was gonna buy a Dual Hunter and a Ball bearing pack and I wanted to change the motors...thats it! I needed to know whether the normal sport tuned motors would make much of a difference? I was told the Super Stock TZ or RZ motors wouldn't work with the ESC, is this true? Also I was gonna get An Ansmann 3300mAh battery. Will this be enough power for me? I'm not going mental with the car, just wanted something that would give me off road but was fast!

[Rcfreak363]

I have read what people are saying but honestly I don't understand a word of it!! I'm a bit new to upgrading so needed help. I was gonna buy a Dual Hunter and a Ball bearing pack and I wanted to change the motors...thats it! I needed to know whether the normal sport tuned motors would make much of a difference? I was told the Super Stock TZ or RZ motors wouldn't work with the ESC, is this true? Also I was gonna get An Ansmann 3300mAh battery. Will this be enough power for me? I'm not going mental with the car, just wanted something that would give me off road but was fast!

that battery would be good enough, just personal preference, but i would choose the ss rz motor

[Mad Ax]

I think there's still a big question-mark over what motors will work on the new twin-motor ESC. It's rated to 2 x 27 turns, so technically speaking you can run two sport-tuned motors without any problems but anything lower is a risk.

Having said that, the TEU-101 can handle my Super Stock BZ motors with no problems. I've been running two of them for a long time with no issues. If the new twin-motor ESC is based on two 101s joined together, then in theory it will handle two Super Stock motors (RZ, BZ or TZ). However you try that at your own risk - it may be fine, or it may cause your ESC to overheat and shut down, or at worst it may blow the ESC completely.

You might also want to consider changing from stock 18T pinions to 20T pinions - part number is in the manual (you have to buy two 20/21T pinion sets, I think) - this will give you a much better top speed without much detriment to torque. I run a Super Stock BZ in a Blackfoot Extreme with 20T pinion and it pulls itself along quite satisfactorily

[Pavster]

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

[Pavster]

Actually, 1 more question...Are the dual motor cars any good? Yeah they conquer all terrain but are they fast? I have a Subaru with nothing altered on it. Will it out run that or will it be slower because it is heavier? I am hearing a lot about the Blackfoot but it isn't 4wd...

[4wdmt]

With the added weight of another motor and differentials equates to a heavier vehicle. plus the fact the gearing ratio and options is not much you can play with. In stock form, It is no touring car. I prolly say that your subaru is much faster in stock form. That's why more people drop in modded motors instead. You can drop a hot motor in there and the diffs can take the beating and it can be as fast as an E-Maxx.

With that in mind. I "think" you can only drop sports tuned in this new stock ESC of Tamiya.

[Pavster]

Is there a dual motor ESC apart from the one that comes with a dualhunter? I want it to be fast and therefore I'm not sure whether to get the twin detonator with the manual esc and get the Super stock RZ's. Does an ESC make much of a difference at all or is it just some new fangled idea that everyone is after? Thanks for the help, forgive my ignorance, I haven't raced cars in years!

[Saito]

Okay, lets start with the basics. The two types of speed controllers are mechanical (msc) or electronic (esc). Mscs are on the way out. They have three foward speeds, three reverse speeds and no braking. They are rather crude and inefficient compared to escs. They limit speed in lower speeds by routing power through a resistor which can get really hot if you drive at low speed alot. Msc really don't cope well with more powerful motors. If you want to go fast with twin motors skip the msc and go for an esc.

Next:motors Without going into too much detail, motors are rated (for lack of a better term) by the number of turns they have. A lower turn motor will be faster than a higher turn one. A 27 turn (27T) stock mabuchi motor (like those in the Twin Det/Dual hunter kits) will not be as fast as a 23 turn (23T) Super Stock RZ motor. Lower turn, more powerful motors will draw more current requiring a better esc.

Now escs. Escs are rated by the number of turns on a motor they can handle. The Tamiya TEU-101 is meant to run no lower than a 27T motor. Some people get away with running a lower turn motor and some don't, but the fact is its meant only for 27T motors and no lower. Now here's where things get tricky. Dual motors draw twice the current so the esc in question must be able to handle both. Here's an example. An esc rated to run an 8T single motor can only handle two motors as low as 16T (8 being half of 16). So if you wanted to run two 20T motors in your truck for example you would need an esc rated at least down to 10T. The Dual Hunter comes with a Tamiya TEU-103 esc. Tamiya America states this esc can handle a max of two Tamiya Sport Tuned motors. Those motors aren't all that hotter than stock.

So here's my advice. Get a Twin Det since its cheaper (and you can't use really powerful motors with the Dual Hunter's 103 esc). Pitch the Twin Det's msc in the trash and purchase an esc that fits what you need. If you want to run two RZ Super Stocks (23T) then you will need to find and esc (from Novak, Tekin etc.) that will handle at least an 11.5 turn motor. If you really get crazy you can go to twin batteries as well with a Novak Super Duty XR but thats another discusion all together. Feel free to ask any more questions.

[mymonsterbeetleisbroken]

Does an ESC make much of a difference at all or is it just some new fangled idea that everyone is after? Thanks for the help, forgive my ignorance, I haven't raced cars in years!

welcome back to rc

to put it one way,

an mechanical speed control is like 2 plastic cups and a bit of string...

an esc is like a mobile phone

mechanical controls have been totally phased out now, no new released kits come with one as far as i know.

esc's have been around since the 1980's. Now days they are cheaper, and more advanced.

they give fully proportional throttle control, forward and reverse (some are forward only for racing, most can be set to disable reverse)

they also have a braking feature, using the motor as a brake.

some have a built in fail safe, so if your car goes out of range or the transmitter batteries die, the car just stops.

all in all, there is little point in using an MSC, they waste power and give limited control.

you can find special duel motor esc's such as the novak/traxxas EVX, super rooster and mtroniks super E truck. loads of companies make esc's suitable to duel motors.

single motor esc's rated at 13 turns or less can also power duel motors at 27 turns or higher.

hope this helps!

[mymonsterbeetleisbroken]

Saito beat me to it

[Pavster]

Wow guys, thank you! I think my answer has been made for me. ESC it is. If i want a better one i can get it later! I might leave the upgrade motors till later as well...

[4wdmt]

Pavster, any chance of running the stock ESC?

[Pavster]

Pavster, any chance of running the stock ESC?

Well i had wanted to use the stock ESC with Super Stock RZ/TZ motors, but they have too few turns and I was advised not to use them. The stock ESC can only handle motors with 27 turns. This doesn't help cos the RZ's and TZ's are 23turns (I think). The ESC can handle up to 2 Tamiya Sport tuned motors. Does anyone know of any better 27turn motors with a higher RPM, or are these unadvisable?

[bfst24]

hi mate

i bought the dual hunter too.

wanted the twin det ,but went for the dual because of the esc and its just so **** ugly.

so i dont really mind bashing the body shell up.im gonna use it like i stole it lol.

im gonna sell my esc on ebay.its got to be worth 20 quid.

i bought a hpi esavage esc.they are 40quid from modelsport.co.uk

they can run 2 motors and 2 batteries.

the esavage standard motors are 550 cans and 23t i think.they are only 6 quid each at modelsport too.

havent got around to building it yet,so cant say how good or bad it is.but ts another option.and quite cheap.

[4wdmt]

Thanks Pavster.

How about you bfst24, any chance of using the stock ESC?

[bfst24]

Thanks Pavster.

How about you bfst24, any chance of using the stock ESC?

well when i have build it i may give it a go?

[Pavster]

well when i have build it i may give it a go?

Yeah but what if it burns out the ESC? 40 for another one...definately let me know though!! I might be cheeky and try it too...

[4wdmt]

Don't run the ESC if it's not the stock motors or the recommended sports tuned ones.

It's ok. I am just curious on how it performs. Most especially the braking and reverse part.

Thanks.

[007al]

I got a Wild Dagger,cheap from ebay.Got the Tamiya twin motor esc,two new stock motors,fully ballraced it,universal shafts all round and oil shocks to give more ground clearance,and swapped the WD body for an overlander body.

It`s not my usual thing but i fancied something different.Glad i did as its great to run for a laugh.You can literally drive it up walls! (Ok,until she tried wiping the tyre marks off and they wouldnt budge ).

Out of all my cars,this is the one i enjoy the most at the moment.Might try a couple of sport tuned motors to see if theres much of a difference.

[Pavster]

Saito beat me to it

Hey mate, sorry just wanted to ask you a question...you seem to have advanced user next to your name, kinda hoping that means you will be able to answer this question!

What difference does putting 20T/21T pinions have on cars? Someone said I should put those on as well as putting the sport tuned motors, is that true? What does it do mainly and will I realise the difference or is it another Tamiya hop up that costs money without really affecting the car much?? Also any idea what the part code might be for the dual hunter? Also because it is dual motors do I need two of them??

Thanks for the help previously...

[Saito]

Gearing can be another long subject as well. Simply put, the pinion gear is the one directly attached to the motor shaft. The lower the number of teeth, the lower the top speed but the greater torque available. The higher the number of teeth, the greater the top speed but less low end torque. The twin motor trucks can accept 18 or 20 tooth pinions (they come stock with 18). As you guessed, being twin motored means buying two pinions. Unfortunately, Tamiya sells pinions in two-packs. Two get the 20 tooth gear you also get a 21 tooth gear. This means at the end of the day you'll have two left over 21 tooth pinions. Installing the 20 tooth pinions over the stock 18 toothers will give you a slightly higher top speed.

[4wdmt]

You can also buy the 20T pinion of duratrax. They are made of steel and only one per package. So you need 2. It is part no. DTXC8350. It is used for their evader electric stadium truck.

[Pavster]

Hey Saito thanks for the explanation. And thank you 4WDMT

[Pavster]

hi mate

i bought the dual hunter too.

wanted the twin det ,but went for the dual because of the esc and its just so **** ugly.

so i dont really mind bashing the body shell up.im gonna use it like i stole it lol.

im gonna sell my esc on ebay.its got to be worth 20 quid.

i bought a hpi esavage esc.they are 40quid from modelsport.co.uk

they can run 2 motors and 2 batteries.

the esavage standard motors are 550 cans and 23t i think.they are only 6 quid each at modelsport too.

havent got around to building it yet,so cant say how good or bad it is.but ts another option.and quite cheap.

Hey mate was just wondering, you said you bought the HPI esc, but I can't find it anywhere on Modelsport. Do you have a link to it? Any help would be awesome, cheers.

[Pavster]

How many people have connected 2 motors to an ESC, I only want to attach a single 3900mAh battery but 2 x 19 turn motors in parallel.

Will it work with the Mtroniks Viper RV Max ESC?

Also where do I buy the wires to connect with the ESC and motors and do they have to be soldered on or are they attached with a screw or what??? I don't know and need some help!!