question about the TA03R chassis (rally related)

[ZenMoto 0]

Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking a general gravel basher. ...something to play around in the dirt with, not for jumping or anything though. I just want to build a decent bruiser for little $$$. I like that the TB01 comes fully ball-raced and am inclined to go with that ...but I also like the suspension adjustment of the TA03. lol ...I can't decide!!!

[thesuper 1]

ZenMoto....thanks...and yes...the TA03R (R designating the motor is mounted infront of the rear wheels/axle) is the chassis pictured. the TA03F has the motor mounted infront of the front wheels/axle.

although, i'm really interested in seeing how having the motor at the rear (on the TA03R) and the battery way up in front with the servo, will affect handling on and off road.

sadly, i've never seen a TA04. and while i haven't had too many problems with the belts on my TA03FS, the open gear boxes that CarKing mwntions on the TA04 might be a problem. i didn't even know they were open.

in response to the second post, i think the TB01, TA03F (or R), and TA03FS (or RS) would make good rally cars.

i had a TB01 and really LOVED having everything protected by the dust cover. i dind't have to worry too much when spashing through puddles. although, to get some good ride height, a few mods have to be made.

if you need part numbers for anything i mention, let me know and i'll look them up.

1. i seemed to prefer the look and handling of the TB01 with the TG10 long axles. they extend the tread width by 4mm or 5mm on each side. to do this mod, you need two bags of TG10 long axles (two axles in each bag) and one bag with the TB01/TG10 rear uprights.

the reason for the extra set of uprights is because, in that bag come two 12mm thick wheel hexes. you get two with the TB01 kit but need two more to make a set of four. one of each wheel.

from there, you install the longer axles, remove the stock 5mm thick wheel hexes, install the 12mm wheel hexes, and bolt on everything as usual.

the nice thing about this set up is that you don't have to buy longer dog bones and longer arms or different parts.

the chassis wheels will now come out to meet the edge of the body shell's wheel arches. this of course means that you have to be careful about where on the body posts you put the body. but i think it looks more authentic.

a pic of my sold TB01 with long axles and a Xsara body painted like the ones from 2000 and 2001.

the other mod requires no cash but it does require a file or Dremel. the front arms are a bit limited in down travel so i found that if you remove a bit of plastic from where the front upright hit the arm when the arms extend down, you can get more travel that way.

the catch is....one you do the mod to one arm, you've got to remove the same amount so you have the same amount of down travel on both arms. or as close as possible.

not so much for the rear arms since they seem to have more stock down travel. but if you're using the Super Low Friction Dampers, the shock shafts are a bit short....but you can use this second inboard mount.

a pic of the lower damper's new position....you can see the old position just to the right of the screw. also, it looks like the driveshaft bids, but it doesn't.

aside from those two, you're done. the thing i loved most about the TB01 is that the arms were smooth on the bottom so nothing can get caught on them.

2. the TA03F (front mounted motor) and TA03R (rear motor) share the same arms.

the main mod there is to get a set of GPM's TA03 lower arms from AsiaTees.com and use a file or Dremel to remove the lowest damper mount and the inboard damper mount. this will allow for more clearance....

the intital mod i tried was using the plastic arms. it worked quite well....for several months...until i found that the amount of material removed was too much and the arms were flexing in a bad way.

a pic of the modified plastic arms...

while i could have left more material on the arms....there was another problem. the problem with using the plastic arms for the mod is that there are no other lower damper mounting postions available on them. i looked and looked. the only way to do it with the plastic arms is to use shock shafts to hold the lower arm to the front upright and the mount the lower damper to. it's a more complicated mod because you need two extra shock shafts. and, to make matters worse...the front shock shafts have to be shorter than the back shafts.

a pic of the new lower damper position (left) before the plastic arms were modified.

and ultimatly...i found the new position to affect the shocks in an undesireable way.

since the lower damper was mounted that far outboard, the damper, with the same spring rate and no spacers, mind you, felt waaaay stiffer....apparently because of the new position. even with the softest spring, they were still too firm. when i moved them a bit more inboard on the GPM aluminum arms....the dampers got back to working as they did before. very supple and smooth.

a pic of the GPM arms. they have three damper mounts. one has been ground off for clearance leaving two. i still need to remove more metal and the inboard mount. the mount that damper is bolted to in the picture is the ideal one.

after the mod that changes the lower damper mount, you'll have to do another that will only work with the GPM arms. won't work with Integy or any of the others i've seen....

you've got to remove metal from only the front arms to make room for the front uprights. this takes a bit of time as you only want to remove a certain amount. a good file for tight spots will be ideal for the greatest control and a dremel will get the big chunks of metal out of the way quicker.

a pic of the front GPM modified arms and the rear, which don't need to be modified.

one last thing...as with the TB01...long axles seem to make up for the loss of tread width. remember that the wheels, as they travel downward, also travel inward a bit. Tamiya makes a long axle kit for the TA03 models. as with the TB01, two kits are needed but you don't have to change anything so it's a cheap mod.

a pic of the TA03FS with the 206 shell in the 2000/2001 paint job.

other than the lower arm mod...that's it.

3. since the TA03FS (and TA03RS) shares the arms of the TA03F and TA03R, the mod above is the same.

BUT....since the "S" in both chassis designates a shorter wheelbase, the rally bodies from Tamiya are a bit limited. where Subaru or Lancer requires a 257mm wheelbase...the Toyota Corolla WRC and Peugoet 206 WRC require a chassis with a 239mm wheel base.

the only other chassis i know that has that wheelbase is the M04L that came with the BMW M Roadster and Honda S2000 and the FF02 chassis that came with the Volkswagon New Beatle. but these aren't 4WD.

and some of these bodies won't work with the longer gear boxes of the TA03 models. but i bet someone here knows of one that might.

anyway, do you're a bit limited to the Corolla and 206....personally....i think they...along with the Lancer...are some of the coolest rally bodies. but again. they are a bit hard to come by of you happen to need a replacement.

pics of the corolla in a dirt rally...and later...repainted and dusty from a rally at the same park....

i recently found two NIB Peugeot 206 body sets but had to pay about $130 for them both. so it gets to be a bit of a commodities game.

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ChrisB....a RWD chassis for rally would be very authentic.

i know i'll look like a dork for asking, but what kind of car is that in the photo? i like the Peugeot-esqe color scheme.

and i WILL tune in for the progress photos on that RWD chassis. sounds like a badword of a plan.

and you're right...not putting the internal o-rings or spacers in the dampers really helps to get a variety of ride heights.

quote:Whilst I am not expecting anywhere near buggy off road ability, the extra clearance alone should easily allow some fun rallying action on loose gravel and dirt, which was more than could ever be achieved with the standard setup

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i think you bring up a really good point.

i'm not really making these mods to get mile high ground clearance....but just a bit more than the stock kits offer. they still have to look like rally cars

i still run these in loose gravel and dirt but no big jumps or boulder crawling. you still have to keep a mildly clean line.

you mention the red oil. i use that right now and really like it. it seems just thin enough. although, i did try the blue, green, yellow, and orange. but as much rough terrain as this car gets driven on, the organce was still too firm. of course...for some driving styles it might be better to use a thicker oil.

with that, i'm using the two hole piston.

it SEEMS that the TA03 has more ground clearance but you lose the practical advantage of having everything covered.

and you're right....the arms on the smaller chassis seem to be quite short.

[CarKing 1]

Super,

Now that I have more time to repsond, I thought I would ask you a few things. I am angry you sold the chassis with bodies to your brother!!!! I would have hapily taken some things off your hands.

Did you ever think about simply screwing the shocks into place instead of using the ball ends? Have you thought about hard joint cups? Have you driven the new one yet? How does it handle with the similar setup as the F? Do you have the hop-up belt for the R because then you could use the 16 tooth pullys. What are you using to cover the speedo? What do those discs do?

Sorry if these questions seems random in order, but I have lost all train of thought now. Just wanted to get these things jotted down.

[ChrisB 0]

thesuper - hehe unless you were into rally motorsport like I was as a kid in the 70's you probably won't recognise the car [].

Its a Talbot Sunbeam Lotus. They were very sucessful between about 1981 and 1983 on the world rally championship (just before the Audi quattro marked the end of successful 2WD rally cars. One year (1982 I think) the Sunbeams came 1st, 2nd and 4th in the UK Lombard Rac Rally as it was then. The car was a standard Talbot Sunbeam hatch with a 230bhp Lotus 2.2 litre engine. There are road cars with the same setup and they were very fast in their day.

Loads more info here:

http://www.sunbeamlotus.com

Its just one of the cars I would like to recreate. The others being maybe the Mk1 Escort, the Lancia Stratos and an early SWB Audi quattro or a Metro 6R4.

I hear that Tamiya may be doing a re-release of the Lancia Integrale, which will definitely be on my must have list [].

I'll let you know how I get on with my M-04 mods, although I fear ground clearance may be a problem.

Cheers,

Chris

[thesuper 1]

CarKing....yeah....i was thinking about selling it on Tamiya Club but....my borther also needed a TB01. he has one but recently found that tower hobbies no longer stocks the kits. for the past month, we'd looked and called around for a good price but had no luck. so i figured, if i sell it to him, he gets a chassis that he canuse for parts and i get a bit of cash. of course, i didn't knwo that cash would get eaten up by the R.

quote:Did you ever think about simply screwing the shocks into place instead of using the ball ends?

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i did that in the begining but i found that if i used the hollow balls with a screw from behind (teehee) that if i needed to remove the damper quickly for som reason, it was much easier to just pop it off the ball than to get the screw driver and take a screw out.

quote:Have you thought about hard joint cups?

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i had a full set on the TB01. and i can say that they are very hard. hardly any wear after a years use.

i don't use them on the TA03s though. i found that if i didn't put any lubrication on the ends of the dogbones where they meet the cups and axles. they stayed cleaner and free of dirt. which meant there was nothing to wear them out.

so far, the TA03FS has been run a lot in the dirt...the ends of the dog bones aren't lubricated, and still no signs of even slight wear on the cups or axles or dogbones. so i save a bit of cash in not having to buy the hard cups.

quote:Have you driven the new one yet? How does it handle with the similar setup as the F?

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still waiting on the arms and the front uprights. but i will post when it's done with more pics.

i really want to get pics of the car in action but it's hard to get pictures that show movement. video is so much better to show cars getting sideways.

quote:Do you have the hop-up belt for the R because then you could use the 16 tooth pullys.

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i got the hop up belt because, really, it was all i could find. i had the number for the regular kit belt but JR-RC didn't have any. thing is, Tamiya sells the stock kit belts for about $6. JR-RC had the Hop Up belts for $7....which Tamiya sells for $10. it was a hard deal to pass up. and he just put up more Hop Up belts. AND....Eagle Racing steering arms! that'll save me from having to pay $50 for Tamiya originals.

quote:What are you using to cover the speedo?

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i used clear silicone around the seams. the ESC in the pic still needs to be sealed. the parts were just put in to see how everything would layout.

quote:What do those discs do?

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they will hold a flat plat (cut from a CD case) that will hold the driver figures. since there are no figures that bolt to the chassis for the TA03, i had to figure out a way to mount a set. i think the figures add the final touch.

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ChrisB....very cool. i recently saw a tape of the running of the Monte Carlo rally where they use all of the older cars like the Alpine and Minis....rally has an amazing history.

i think the M04 will be a cool project.

by the way, what wheelbase would a chassis be for that Sunbeam Lotus? was it a small car? i know you can extend the wheelbase of the M04 chassis but to what extent, i don't know.

[BlazingDragon 0]

Here's some info and links for the Talbot Lotus Sunbeam:

Henri Toivonen won the 1980 RAC rally (I remember watching the highlights on BBC Grandstand as a 7 yer old; I wish we'd had a VCR then!!)

http://www.sunbeamlotus.com/Public/BodyPages/Lombard.html

It wasn't killed off by the Quattro and the arrival of 4WD, it generally wasn't comptitive with the 2WD cars of the early 80's - Escort RS1800, Lancia 037, Renualt 5 Turbo, Opel Ascona, etc...

Some Lotus Sunbeam history:

http://www.sunbeamlotus.com/Public/BodyPag...nbeamLotus.html

It was a about the same size a Mark II Escort (probably around the same size as a current Peugeot 207), but with a shorther wheelbase and longer overhangs. There's plenty more stuff on the web; Google is your friend []

[ZenMoto 0]

Super,

Thanks for all that information ...I'm more confused than ever! Seriously though, I still have no idea what I'd be better off doing. I'm going to go hobby-shop hunting today and see if I can find any sleeper deals. If not, I may order up a TB01 for the sheer economy of it. In either case I'll be hitting you up for help locating hop-ups. ...has anyone found a great place to find the TRF dampers?

Thanks again, your write ups are great. ...are any of you in the US? I'm in Southern California and just getting into this hobby again after a 13 year absence. I may even drive down to Irvine for Tamiyacon in April (http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=61).

[ChrisB 0]

Sorry to disagree with ya Blazing Dragon [], but for the years it was competitively rallied by a works team '79-'82 it was one of the most successful 2WD cars competing....

Aside from the famous Lombard RAC rally 1st, 3rd & 4th in 1980 (I got my original post wrong), it won the world championship for Talbot in 1981 and won its Group 2 class on the RAC Rally for 3 years in succession up to '82 when the classes changed to Group A, B, C etc.

After the '82 season ended the Talbot rally team (now owned by Peuguot) switched their efforts to building and running the Group A Peuguot 205 T16 cars (another great car imho).

Over the years it was rallied, some of the biggest names of the time were in the works team (Henri Toivonen, Guy Fréquelin, Stig Blomqvist, Tony Pond to name a few).

I think the reason its competion success is not so widely known is that the ordinary road going (i.e. non Lotus) versions of the car were pretty poor and never had the following of the likes of the Escorts or the Renault 5's that you mention.

I am a bit biased as my dad used to work for Talbot at the time and I always loved the street versions of the sunbeam lotus. A hot hatch with Ferrari rivalling performance before the golf GTi "invented" the whole hot hatch phenomenon!

thesuper - its a small renault clio sized hatchback, so probably a similar wheelbase to the 206 or the Corolla you have.....

Cheers,

Chris

[BlazingDragon 0]

quote:Originally posted by ChrisB

Sorry to disagree with ya Blazing Dragon [], but for the years it was competitively rallied by a works team '79-'82 it was one of the most successful 2WD cars competing....

<snip> [lots of good rallying stuff </snip>

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id="quote">id="quote">

No problem []; I was judging it more on rally victories, of which it had less (between '80 and '82) than the RS1800, 131 Abarth, Quattro, Opel or various Datsun's. I agree that it was a gret achievement to win the manufacturer's crown in '81, but they were 5th in '80 and 10th in '82 (I checked). []

Anyways, I agree it was an awesome car (as were all early to mid-80's rally cars []), and a Lotus Sunbeam bodyshell would look fantastic sitting on a M-04 chassis.

[ZenMoto 0]

Ok, ...I bought a kit to try and build a rally out of. ...but I decided to make it more challenging! [] I bought a TB02 (Mercedes). I'll get a different body for it for rally, but I'm going to see how hard it is to mod it forbetter clearance. I could have bought the TB01 Focus, but they were the same money and I figured I'd opt for the new chassis design and figure something out.

...let the games begin! lol I'm going to go start building it. ...the first Tamiya kit I'll have assembled since my old Hotshot (hmmm ...1989?) []

[thesuper 1]

BlazingDragon, ChrisB....bookmarked and i'll read up on all of this tomorrow....thanks for all the great info.

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ZenMoto....congrats on the TB02 purchase. lots of hop ups for that one so finding them should be easy. and it's a standard 257mm wheelbase so you've got a wide selection of bodies.

post any mods you make as i'm interested in the possibility of using a TB02 for off-road rally.

[CarKing 1]

Well that should be interesting. I heard that the TB-02 was not as suitable as an offroader, but don't really recall why so go for it!

Hey Super, did you ever try putting on some treaded Tamiya tires and taking your TA03 to some lightly dusted/sandy paved road? The was it looks, you might be able to get some more slides like a tarmac WRC event. Thought that might be cool to do. What bodies did you end up keeping for yourself? I saw you had one of the newer style Subarus which I want to pick up for myself.

I also found a rolling TB-01 chassis on ebay that has some nice hop-ups that I might be able to part out and have as spares and also bump up the preformance of my TB-01. Of course I am also trying to find another cheap TA04-R to take apart and have as spares for my serious racing.

How did you build the shocks for the 03? What pistons are you using, and what shock oil do you have. I need to buy a new speed control for my Focus before I can test anymore, and the track at Tamiya I saw today is more weeds and grass than dirt which ruins a very good test ground.

When you moved the position of the lover shock mount on the TB-01, did you find the car to handle a bit different? I would imagine that if you hit a bump at the wrong angle with the new positions, it would upset the car a lot more than before even though it wasn't a huge change. Seem like that along with the soft springs would cause some problems with the rotation of the chassis through a corner on the power.

[ChrisB 0]

BlazingDragon - I bow to your superior research on this one []

I really hope I can get something going on the M-04 chassis as I love the RWD handling - so much more interesting than the 4WD imho.

I notice my re-release Mazda Eunos kit on the M-04M chassis has some nice Rally looking minilites in the kit, so could be a good starting point. I would be torn though as to which kit to use as I also love the Alfa GTA I have on the same chassis, and bodysets for that are impossible to find - this means if I used the Alfa kit I could recycle the spare bodyshell.... decisions, decisions.

I think if I can't source a suitable shell from the likes of Kamtec I may have a go at doing some of my own vacuuforming. Only thing is I am not sure of the best way to go about making the original plug to mould from.

I am guessing I could produce a 3D CAD model of the Sunbeam Lotus and then take perpendicular "slices" though the shell and then use these as templates for building up a rough outline of the shell in wood "layers". If I glued these together I could then sand the segments smooth to get the basic shape and then maybe detail it from there....

It would be great to have the ability to make more shells as and when I need them, and this way I could design the wheelbase to fit the M-04M exactly from the start. I really have no idea how difficult this would be though.... very satisfying I would have though if it comes off. I would have course have to detail it with some of the big 80's style banks of rally driving lights up front and maybe even some of the monster mudflaps they use []

[ZenMoto 0]

5.5 hours!!! ...that's how long it ook me to build the TB02! lol That's without installing any electronics (I don't have any for it yet) and without doing the body. BTW, the CLK body is a work of art! Man these things have come a long way since I last built a Tamiya kit. The assembly was really straight forward and I managed not to make any mistakes or lose any parts! [^]

As for the rally capabilities of this car, I can only see a few minor drawbacks:

1. Waterproofing: Not much of an issue for me as I live in Southern California ...I will never take this car out in the wet. But, like most new cars from Tamiya, it has an open tub chassis (unlike the TB01 with the lexan cover).

2. Holes in bottom of the chassis: I know they are there to both lighten the chassis and allow cooling for the motor and battery, but rocks and other debris can get up there too. Probably not a bid deal as long as the motor case vents aren't pointing down into the hole.

3. Suspension travel: It looks different on the TB01 & TA03 chassis, but the suspension travel is limited to barely past horizontal at full extension by the chassis. However, thee is no other structural purpose for the chassis to extend out under the suspension arms. I'm sure I will be able to grind away the chassis and come up with another solution for providing a stop-point for the arms.

Otherwise, this thing is a really sturdy kit. I can see now why people buy titanium screw kits ...there are a ton of screws in this baby. The gearboxes are sealed, as are the pinion and drive gears. It came with a 19T pinion, but with 3 drive gears, I think they are a 55T, 58T and a 61T (I installed the 58T for now). There are also some pretty blue aluminum spacers in the kit and I have no idea where they go! lol There will be a lot of room for hop-ups to reduce the weight a bit. I'll probably machine my own shock towers to help out with the overall lift as well.

I think this will be a fun project! []

[thesuper 1]

CarKing...oh yeah...i've got two sets of radial tires that i use for tarmac and depending on how dusty the pavement is, the TA03FS will slide without effort. the TB01 had no problems with that either.

as for the bodies...i kept a 01 Ford Focus, 03 Subaru Impreza, the 01 Subaru Impreza Prototype that came with the kit, an Escort in Repsol colors, a Lancer Evo VI, a Peugeot 306 Maxi with the air dam chopped off, the Citroen Xsara, and i've got 4 Peugoet 206s and 3 Toyota Corollas. i kept these 'cause they are the ones i like best. i still want a Lancia Delta though...

both of the 03s have the low friction damper cans but, in order to get more ride height, they use the kit supplied piston rods. they aren't as smooth as the low friction shafts, so i put them in the dremel and used some metal polish and got them really smooth. in those, i'm using red shock oil and the two whole piston.

you went to the track at Tamiya? i'm surprised it was in a bit of disrepair. maybe it was a busy week?

as for the new shock position on the TB01....i was expecting it to change something. but i don't think it did. at least i couldn't tell if it did. handled the same...no real change that i could tell.

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ZenMoto...i think the TB02 should be ok with the tub open....my Ta03s have open tubes...no problems yet.

although, i did seal the seams of the electronic boxes with silicone, just in case i get caught in the rain.

so long as nothing that moves gets exposed, i think it should be ok.

as for the travel...look really close, i thought the chassis on the TB01 was limiting travel but it turns out it was the front and rear upright hitting the arms. might be different on the TB02 but it's not a bad idea to check if it saves grinding up the chassis.

you have a CNC machine???

[ZenMoto 0]

Well, I know the pics are bad, but it's a rainy, gray SoCal day and I don't have much light here.

This is the completed chasses (with Red TRF dampers).

and this is the set screw that sets ride height against the chassis tub.

I've double checked and it is the only thing (until the arm itself hits the chassis) that limits travel.

Here is the bottom view of the area.

And this marks the area I will have to trim out to allow for more extension on the swingarms (they are very simliar front & back, this happens to be the back).

I will still have to find a way to limit the travel as I'm not sure I want the dampers to bear that kind of stress; it's not really what they are designed for. I'm sure I can wrangle something together. []

As for the CNC, no, I don't really have a CNC. I have a programmable mill at work though. not good for complex parts, but plenty good for machining out a flat shape/outline and placing holes in the right spots. []

PS, Neo ...that background, on the last two, was intentional just for you! []

[thesuper 1]

ZenMoto....so only the screw and the part you plan to cut out are limiting travel? really? hmmm...interesting.

quote:I will still have to find a way to limit the travel as I'm not sure I want the dampers to bear that kind of stress; it's not really what they are designed for.

id="quote">id="quote">

do you mean the stress when the piston hits the bottom of the damper can as the shaft extends fully?

a mill is going to come in handy.

[ZenMoto 0]

quote:Originally posted by thesuper

ZenMoto....so only the screw and the part you plan to cut out are limiting travel? really? hmmm...interesting.

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That's how it looks to me! ...should be a lot of potential with this chassis in that regard. I have, in fact, ordered a second tub to experiment with (don't want to butcher my new car without a backup) lol I'm also thinking of bonding some lightweight metal mesh/screen material over the holes in the chassis (beneath the battery and motor); this should allow airflow but prevent anything too nasty from getting into the chassis and motor. ...I might get really crazy and form some inner fenders to prevent stuff from getting thrown up from the tires.

We have an FDM machine at work as well that created 3D parts from ABS plastic. It doesn't make perfect final parts as it "prints" in layers, but the final product is 70% the strength of an injection molded part and it can make them in black, red, white, etc. Once I have a rally shell picked out, I can design inner fenders to fit and "print" them to the FDM. ...next day, viola' ...parts! []

quote:Do you mean the stress when the piston hits the bottom of the damper can as the shaft extends fully?

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That's what I'm thinking. If it gets air, I don't want to destroy my dampers. Besides (and more likely a problem) will be the swingarm extending to a point where the dogbones either bind, or fall out. I'll need to limit travel to a point where they can still function well. I think for rally, lightening the overall package will be important as well. ...I see some hop-ups in my future ...though I'm not sure I'll spend $50 on Ti screws everywhere! lol

[CarKing 1]

I can't imagine that jumping with the car would harm the dampers. If anything, the dampers will absorb and distribute a lot of the force of impact through the springs and the upper and lover arms. If you look at the TA03, it has a lot of the same issues you are talking about. The way you limit the travel of the arms so that you don't bind the dog bones is to build the shocks in a way that won't allow so much travel that the arms can extend that far. Again, if you look at the TA03 that thesuper built, his has not had any issue with the binding and his are much more extended than yours would be.

I might not cut that area all away immediately, but try slowly trimming it back until you get the travel that you want. However, and again I refer to the TA03 because of the fact the control arms are not limited in travel by the chassis design, I don't see the issue if you did trim it all the way back to the pivot point of the arms. Think of most offroad vehicles, especially say in Dakar or Baja (or the TNX). They allow the imapt to be absorbed by the dampers, because in reality, the are "shock absorbers" because the absorb shock. With the arms, wheel, tire, and all the front suspension parts, you will be distributing the impact across the chassis and not just directly to the dampers.

You might want to invest in some aluminum arms though just for sake of the fact you plan on jumping your car. I would also say use a gear diff and not a ball diff (though I don't know what the 02 comes with). Hard joint cups would be a great thing as well. Make sure to get a heat sink for the motor since it will get HOT in that part of the chassis. You might also consider carbon shock towers.

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Super

I will get you some pics of the dirt track next weekend since it really has been in disrepair for a while now. The paved track is just stunning in my mind.

I was looking back and noticed that when you move the lower shock mount out to the point that connected the lowever control arm to the knuckle and figure it was probably the fact that at that large an angle to the top mount (guess 40-50 degrees), there was no way that it had the proper angle to compress much if at all. It might as well have been horizontal at that point. Did you ever try to move it in?

[ZenMoto 0]

lol I'm not worried about the shocks being damaged on landing, simply pointing out that I'd rather have a stop for when the suspension extends than have their extension limited by the dampers; you know, like a bumper that the arms won't travel past when fully extended. It probably won't hurt anything to have the dampers serve this function though. I'm not really planning on jumping the car, but you never know what might happen in the heat of the moment! []

The TB02 comes with a gear differential and a heat sink for the motor. The chassis won't be here for a week or so (from Hong Kong to US) so I'll have time to think things through.

[mr_pushrod 5]

I thought the TB-02 had twin ball diffs? I would say these are far better for rally conditions as the car won't 'diff out' making the handling more predictable and handling better. I wouldn't worry about the dampers limiting suspension travel, won't do any harm. I used to race a TL-01 in a rally class using the mini CVAs without any spacers in. Had good ground clearance and the suspension could iron out a lot of the bumps. Was strong as well, only had kingpins fall out which is amazing considering the abuse it got!

[ZenMoto 0]

mr_pushrod,

You're right ...I should't type at 3am. The TB02 indeed has twin ball diffs. Like I said, when the "spare" chassis shows up I'll get into the mods and seeing what I might need to make it into a killer rally car. [] I think what CarKing said about limiting my cutback of the pan to have that limit suspension travel is a good idea. Right now the chassis subs out under the arm and a set-screw in the arm is used to adjust the travel. I can still use that portion of the chassis to limit travel by gringing it back to th desired depth.

[thesuper 1]

ZenMoto...i was thinking of the same thing...some kinda fenders...but i've not had a single problem to date. one thing that helps is to carry spare parts and screws....

this box is not too large and carries everything i might possibly need...to a point. beyond that point....it will probably one badword of a wreck.

doesn't look like much but it has come in handy several times.....i've got belts in the bag i used for transport.

as for jumps....i've founds lots of places where the jumps were to scale with the car....there were no problems. on jumps that are not to a similar scale, too hard a push and the chassis would bottom out and later...i'd see all sorts of damage.

here are a few pics from one drive on some not-so-smooth pavement, that left impressions.

none of the damage is extreme but it's enough to make me glad i have spares in case i start to see these develop into cracks.

like this one....

it was a gouge that became a crack. i tried to superglue some brass shims, to the brace in the hopes of keeping it from breaking apart but...as you can see...it was no help.

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CarKing....oh...i thought you meant that Tamiya had a dirt track that was in disrepair.

yeah...when i did move the lower damper mount outboard, it was not very active on the small bumps....even with the lightest oil and softest springs...in the corners on pavement, the car would vibrate. just like it does when the suspension is set too stiff.

the second i moved the lower damper mount to the most outboard position, it was back to normal...the springs then required spacers so that the chassis wouldn't scrape on the ground. i guess moving the lower damper mount further outboard changed the leverage ratios.

pics of the current and probably permanent position.

in the second pic you can see how the exposed connector can get damaged. the only way i can see to prevent this is to put the right lower arm on the left of the chassis and flip that arm upside down. that way, the damper mount is there, there are no changes to the way the arms mount up since they are identical units from left to right.

BUT....even with a shorter damper shaft, the travel is reduced to about 1/4 of the total it has now. which is really not enough for anything other than on-road.

so until another solution is found, it'll stay like this.

[ZenMoto 0]

Super, Nice damage pics! lol Looks like you've been having lots of fun with your car! [] BTW, where did you find the aluminum suspension arms and hub carriers?

[CarKing 1]

Super, have you tried replacing the ball cup for the shock mount with a more traditional kit screw that goes there? It would allow you to put either a thick o-ring, or a washer on one or both sides of the part where the damper is mounted to the lower arm. This would prevent the shock from taking all the abuse and might absorb some of the shock as well. Just something to play around with.

Where did you get that case for your parts? Mine are just setup in my toolbox that I will get pics of later. Also they do have a dirt track. The paved track infront of the radio stand and the dirt track in back. The dirt track right now is more like grass with remnants of the old track underneath. I am trying to place calls to get it redone.