question about the TA03R chassis (rally related)

[thesuper]

is it possible to use two 16 tooth pulleys on a TA03R chassis?

i know there is a small roller that is used, so that the belt clears the motor can (see pic)...so i'm wondering if the roller will still allow the use of two 16 tooth pulleys.

[Twmaster]

IIRC the 16 tooth pully should work.

[CarKing]

Yeah it will work, but be careful because mine seemed to wear out pretty fast doing that. I am assuming you are running the hop-up belt correct?

[thesuper]

CarKing....i don't have the chassis yet but there are a few on eBay that i want.

the reason i'm considering the purchase, is, i've now got tons of TA03 parts. it's quite a bit of stuff. and ever since making some mods to the TA03F-S that i have, for off road use, i've LOVED it. handles great, not real issues with the exposed belt...the only issue being, when small rocks jam the battery pack in the tub. but that's about it.

so i was thinking of seeing if a TA03F could replace my TB01. the TA03s can have quite a bit more ground clearance. which is great.

but because of the front mounted motor, i can't fit a newly painted Ford Escort in Repsol colors or (a new favorite) a Peugeot 306 Maxi with the air dam chopped off for off road use....like in the Race of Champions.

so....i see that the TA03R has a different, and more compact, front gearbox. so all i need to make a new TA03R, is a tub, carbon brace, belt, and that front gearbox, and bumper. i've got aluminum pulleys, rear uprights, front uprights, steering set....quite a few hop ups. so it would be a nicely hopped up car.

i'm not sure that i'd runa hop up version of the belt. this will only be a test to see how different the general handling of a TA03R is from a TA03F. i was thinking that the TA03R would drive more like a RWD car. but then i see that the battery is really close to the front gearbox...so maybe not. and i figure, if it doesn't work out, i can sell the tub, brace, belt, and gear box on ebay.

so how does your TA03R handle compared to the TB01 or the TA04?

if anyone else has some input on the handling differences between a TA03R and TA03F...any info would be great.

[CarKing]

Well I had a TA03F and loved it. Then when they came out with the TA03R, I bought the R tub from Tamiya, and made my TA03F into an R by changing out the tub and swapping the gear boxes front to rear and vice versus. I also then bought the short tub that came with the TA03 Corolla which gave me essentially 3 different cars from one. On race day, I loved being able to swap the chassis style and find what I liked most. More often than not, I always ran it in the R configuration. However, when I got my TA04-R, I would never go back to a TA03. More efficient, handles more predictibly, and just runs better all around.

Depending on the class you want to run in, you can compete very well with an 03. For the prices that regular TA04 kits go for on ebay, I would suggest looking to get an 04 instead of an 03, though with your abundance of parts it might be hard to convince you of this.

What are your goals for this car?

[thesuper]

CarKing....so what about the TA03R did you like more than the TA03F?

the goals for the TA03R will be off road rally since the TA03FS has proven itself (with a few mods).

no competative racing. just against my brother at the off road park.

with all the parts i have, the only thing is need is the tub, belt and front gear box....comes to a total of $26 USD. i have everything else.

[CarKing]

Well the R felt a lot more balanced that the F did. Anything that was on the edge with the F felt stable and within the realm of the R. The battery position is far forward which really gives it a balanced feel. It was easy to setup. One thing with the F though; I felt like out of the turns it would pull itself a bit more than in the R version. With all that weight in front with the F, it sort of resembles a FF car. However, with the F, you could slide the rear a bit too much in some situations.

For rallying, I don't know if it would be an advantage since rallying is not about hitting your marks and not sliding the car around. I would prefer the F setup like a true rally racer than the R version.

However, if you get a set of those Tarmac tires that are not completely slick (come on FF01 peugeot), than definatly go with R.

Hope this helps a bit. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Oh, and if you do try the R for rallying, you might buy the short TA03R-S tub. I am sure you saw the rally last night and the trouble the 307 have with their long wide car []

[thesuper]

CarKing....that's some great info.

what i love about the TA03FS is the same thing that you're talking about...it just pops out of the corners. and yes...i LOVE the ability to swing the back end around with just a bit of counter steer entering the corner. so in that repsect, the F versions are perfect for rally.

also, do you know if the TA03R belt will work with the TA03F....i would think the belt is the same length, no?

i am so ready to get some video footage of where we run the cars. we found a new park. but we need to decide on a model of camera and the disk type. so many options that it's hard to see which would be best. but that will come soon.

i WISH i had caught the Monte Carlo rally. how did you see it? Dish Network, Direct TV, cable, satelite?

i'm this close to giving in and getting the coverage ($40 USD a month here in Texas, for those overseas) at least for this year since this is the last year that Peugeot and Citroen will participate in the WRC.

what happened with the 307s?

[CarKing]

Yeah I caved and put in the cash to see it on digital cable. Basically on one of the first stages, the two Citroens were in first and second with Gronholm in 3rd trying to make up time. Duval came to a tight turn and spun it loosing 12 seconds to Loeb, but then Loeb spun in the exact same turn loosing about 12-14 seconds. Gronholm was in perfect position to make up a lot of ground, and hit his marks perfect and never spun and STILL lost time!!!!! The 307 is so long and wide compared to the other cars it has trouble in the tight stages. Later he and Soleberg both clipped a snow bank then smashed into the outside wall and retired from 3rd and 2nd at the time causing them to finsh 5th and 10th respectivly. They both lost their left front wheel but Gronholm limped back for repairs while Soleberg retired. Loeb wins AGAIN.

Anyways the belt should work, however when I used the TA03F hopup belt it was pretty tight because of the little roller that keeps the belt off the motor. For offroading, you should get the proper belt.

[thesuper]

CarKing....so i should just bite the bullet and get the TA03R belts?

so you must be seeing the coverage on Speed TV. how long is the coverage. an hour or two? if i miss the coverage do they re run the show on a later day?

thanks again for all the info...

[CarKing]

I would get the TA03R belt just because, but I doubt you need to rush to get it.

Yeah I do watch on Speed. It is on twice a day out here in Cali, so should be the same in Texas.

[thesuper]

CarKing...nope...no rush.

sadly though, this $30 build is now up to $130.

i _need_ to get aluminum arms to make the mod for the off road rally clearance (the plastic lower arms won't work for this or i'd use them). $30 from GPM.

the tub, carbon brace, and front gear case...all from Tamiya. about $28.

two belts for about $12 (one for back up).

bearings from eBay seller Wala Store. $10.

then there's Jr-Rc....is there anything this guy doesn't have?

upper arms set $12 (i need this to get the settings as they are on the TA03FS....for accurate comparison)

carbon steering set $7 (don't need it but if i like the 03R, i won't have to order this later)

alu front hub carriers $30 (same as above)

while i really just need the upper arms from JR-RC...if i get only that, and then like the TA03R and decide to keep it, i'll have to order the rest of the stuff and spend more on shipping than if i get it all now.

and while $130 is just about the cost of a kit that comes with a TA03R...i can't seem to find any for a good price. there is an NSX and Rayrbig on eBay but the sellers want about $40 for shipping. that's way too much for a kit that's has a Buy It Now for $139. and even if i DO get it...i'l still not have the alum. lower arms and upper arms, and bearings.

uggg!

[CarKing]

JR-RC is a great source. Just ordered parts from him today. Anyways it does end up getting pricey i guess. Since there is no rush though, you can just get the Tub, and arms first and get up and running.

[thesuper]

CarKing...oh yeah....JR-RC....i go to him first for parts.

hehehe....true...i'll collect the parts slowly.

of course, now i'm excited to try out a new chassis and see if my days of searching for a good off road rally chassis is over.

i still wish Tamiya made a chassis that was available with the 257 and 239 wheel base with about 180mm tread and loads of clearance via some long suspension arms.

[CarKing]

Hey I should have asked this a while ago but what are you hoping to get out of the new chassis configuration? Or maybe I should ask, what are you trying to eliminate out of your current TA03F?

[thesuper]

CarKing....well...nothing really. i only have a TA03F-S right now and love it. not a TA03F at the moment. but i don't plan to get rid of the TA03F-S since it's the only chassis that the Corolla and 206 will fit on, that's 4WD.

i got one TA03F-S chassis off eBay for a good deal and then, for extra parts, i purchased two other NIB kits so i could have spares.

the chassis i'm using for the Subaru, Focus, Escort, 306 Maxi, Lancer and Citroen bodies is the TB01, which i also love. but i have almost no spare parts for that chassis. i was planning on buying two more NIB kits for spare parts BUT....

i've got way more spare TA03 parts. so i figured...it would still be cheaper to build a second TA03 chassis than it would be to buy two NIB TB01 kits.

so i decided to build a TA03F. but becuase the motor is mounted in front, i found that i wouldn't be able to use my Excort and 306 Maxi bodies.

so i figured, i'll build a TA03R from all NIP spare parts and drive it a few times on and off road. and if i don't like it, i'll sell the whole thing on eBay.

i bet it sounds like one big huge mess of a plan....

so i'll keep the short wheelbase TA03FS for the corollas and 206s

and have a 257 wheelbase chassis for everything else.

and still tons of spares for each.

[CarKing]

Well the one problem with buying a NIB TA03 for this purpose is that the resale value of a car tried and failed at off roading won't be worth a whole lot to a collector. Once run, it is just another TA03R. I would highly suggest asking around here to see if someone has an old runner they could sell you. Otherwise, you are committing to a $50 hit when you try to resale it.

[thesuper]

CarKing....well....Tamiya had all the parts i needed and then some.

so i'll have a TA03R built of all new parts. but i have another set of arms to use that are already modified for off-road. if i end up selling it, i'll install so that it's original.

i don't plan to putchase a NIP kit. but this chassis i'll build will be built of all new parts. minus the arms. but again, i have a set of NIP arms so i can sell it with those.

i was suprised that Tamiya had the Hop Up and standard versions of the belts. so i got two. as well as 15t aluminum pulleys (just in case the 16t don't work out), carbon brace (supposed to be discontinued), carbon steering plate (supposed to be discontinued), and a motor plate (again, supposed to be discontinued). along with the tub, b parts, upper arms, sus shaft set....

and oddly enough, most of them were cheaper in price than the best deals on eBay.

with all the stuff ont he way, i'm really excited to get this chassis built and running.

[thesuper]

almost done with the TA03R....a few progress pics (might have to turn up tthe brightness on the monitor)....

the bill so far:

$130--Tamiya for various parts i couldn't find on eBay.

$75---Jason's Store(JR-RC) and Wala Store (another eBay seller)

$30---Asia Tees (lower arms)

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$235--ouch!

to offset this, i sold my TB01 with all the hop ups and some new, never run, painted and stickered shell, to my brother for cheap.

$120--TB01 and shells

so i ended up spanding way more than i planned to but, oh well, at least i get to build a new kit (which has been quite fun) and do a bit of testing.

i'm still waiting on the lower arms (which will be modified for more clearance) and front uprights.

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the first addition was a foam bumper to the plastic kit bumper. i got it from these foam boards, that have interlocking edges, sold at hardware stores, that you put down to protect the floor when you're working with construction materials. quite nice here to protect the hardwood floors.

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CarKing....you were right about the the belt being really tight when using two 16T pulleys. so i picked up a set of 15T pullets and they result in near perfect belt tension. of course...i might switch to a set of 16T when this belt stretches out a bit.

in addition to this, on one drive, i started to notice very tiny, white cracks or factures, radiating from the base of the upper ball connectors on the sus. mounts, on the TA03FS. no doubt that having only 5mm of threaded shaft in the mount was a bit too little. so i tapped the plastic (more on that later) to make threading a machine screw REALLY easy...added a washer under the screw head, to protect the plastic, and than added a ball nut at the other end.

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after installing the the alu. steering set, i notice that there was still a bit of play (a rocking type) in the arms. so i flipped the brass bushing, that goes through the bearing races, upside down, so that the flanged portion secured the bearings and seering arms from above. works great. no more slop and the arms now rest a bit lower, which should make it easier to extend the arms as low as possible for max ride height. i also got the carbon steering bar and put a tiny, tiny, bit of blue loctite on the nuts that secure the arms to the bar, since they had worked loose on several occasions.

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what i really hated seeing, was a newly bled damper, shining like a diamond, getting filthy in 10 feet of off-road driving. so i used some long and narrow ballons and fitted them over the damper can and over the shock shaft. ideally they should cover the whole shaft but i'll recut them at a later time. after every few runs i'd peak underneath and the ballon....where the shaft enters was still spotless.

i've also been very pleased with the quiter running Robinson Metric pinions so i kept that and will be adding an alu. pinion cover soon.

also, i seem to have found the perfect spring to use for rally. they are the silver springs from the F-150 and S-10 kits (C Parts #9415197 $13.50 from Tamiya USA). it does come with extra shafts and o-rings and a few other things but they are very useful, so it's worth the price.

anyway, the springs are great because they are 38 mm long. which means, if you extend the travel on a kit for more clearance, you won't have to use a ton of spacers to make up for difference.

i had purchased a set of the rally springs before and they were too short by 10mm. which meant i had to use a lot of spacers. so these silver springs are perfect.

also, they are soft. so if you're going to rally on-road, you don't really need many spacers (depends on the chassis). if you want more height for off-road rally...add in spacers and watch the right height raise up. but the best thing is, even with the ride height raised, the springs are still the same rate, so the suspension is still working to soak up the small and big bumps and you have more travel to work with.

i know some will say that with such soft springs, the chassis will lean when cornering on-road. but i think it gives the car a more scaled look. especially when the wheel extends into surface irgularities at the inside dip on a corner. it looks really cool!

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the best thing was, everything seemed to fit really well in the tub. and again, as on the TA03FS, i was able to use heat resistor mount and some servo disc things (what are they called?) that i couldn't use 'cause they were Sanwa, to mount a plate for the driver figures.

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on the tapping screw. driving a machine/fine thread screw into hard plastic can be tough. i've stripped quite a few screw heads trying to do that.

so, a simple way to make the task easier is to the slot the shaft of a really long machine screw.

the sharp edges of the threads, left by the slot will act as a cutting edge though the plastic.

this is mainly for really hard plastics. also, when you thread the screw you intend to use, make extra sure that you don't over tighten.

i've found that if the screw will anchor something under the head, it's best to tap the plastic only about 3/4th the length of the entire screw that will be used. the last untapped portion will tell you when you're nearing the end, as well as, offer a bit of extra tighness to keep the screw in place.

[ZenMoto]

Hey thesuper, great write up and pics! Is this all on the ta03 platform? Have any of you set up a ta04 for rally? I am very interested in doing this to my 04r as I won't be running it on any indoor tracks and the pavement around here is dismal. Any tips are appreciated. Especially about suspension setup. I currently have the stock (for the ta04R) dampers; will these give me enough extension for rally? Thanks again, keep up the great work!

[CarKing]

Awesome stuff man! I always look forward to your write ups.

Zen, I would not reccommend doing this to your TA04R. Super was talking with me a while ago about it, and in reality, the TA04 isn't built for anything like that. The was the belts are so exposed, along with the pullys and open gear boxes, you would be asking for problems. If I were you, I would sell your TA04R on ebay and invest in a TA03. You could probably sell you TA04R and get more than enough for a NIB TA03.

[ZenMoto]

Thanks for the feedback, that is exactly what I was concerned with; the open gearbox. However, I really like my 04, I may just have to "invest" some of my tax return on a nib ta03!

[ChrisB]

Hey - great write up guys []

This thread and the earlier one from a few months back by thesuper and CarKing have inspired me to try some of your suggestions on my TL-01 Scooby and when I come to build my TB-01 Lancer Evo too.

If these go OK then I am going to bite the bullet and go for my ultimate RC car, a RWD car, probably based on the M-04 chassis, possibly using a Kamtec shell (if I can get a Mk1 Escort to fit). I love the RWD handling of the M-04 and would love to recreate one of the late 70's / early eighties RWD rally cars with a full lighting rig [8D].

So far with the TL-01 I have fitted shocks from the CVA kit with no internal spacers and using the long silver springs (the same as the ones thesuper is using I think). Clearance is greatly improved, but I need to add the proper turnbuckle steering set (on order) to overcome the limitations of the rather basic TL-01 steering setup.....

Whilst I am not expecting anywhere near buggy off road ability, the extra clearance alone should easily allow some fun rallying action on loose gravel and dirt, which was more than could ever be achieved with the standard setup [].

I'll be documenting my progress in my showroom, so feel free to chime in with suggestions []

Interesting you mention the use of the clip on spring spacers on these shocks giving the ability to adjust the ride height. This is exactly what I found - I use the thickest clip on spacer for max ground clearance, but can just remove them for on road and the ride height lowers usefully.

HAven't really had a thorough trial yet, and am a bit worried the really soft red shock oil along with the "3 hole" disk inside the damper may prove too soft.

Maybe you guys should setup a small rally forum within TC with details of all these mods - it gave me loads of ideas.

Interested that you prefer the TA03 to say making the same mods to a TB-01 or say a TL-01 - is this because the TA-03 has longer suspension wishbone arms, and therefore more potential for increasing the ride height?

This is one area where I think I may be limited with the M series chassis - the suspension arms are very short.

Keep the good stuff coming..., personally I would like to get an RC one of these up and running:

[]

Cheers,

Chris

[ZenMoto]

So which one would make a more competent rally car? I could pick up a nib ta03F (Impreza WRX), ta03f-s (Toyota Corolla), or TB-01 (Ford Focus). Hmmmm Let me know what you guys think, I seriously want to build a rally car!

[CarKing]

Well personally the TB-01 seems best suited to be a rally car based on the shield you get to cover the electronics (doesn't do a lot, but everything helps), and the shaft drive can take the beatings. However, as stated the TA03 with the longer suspension arms will allow for more travel depending on where you are going to rally the thing. For myself, I bought a TB-01 and don't do anything to harsh (like what a real WRC car might see), and have a TNX for the serious stuff. It would have to be between the TA03F-S since the manuvering would be more comparable to a rally car with the short wheelbase and front mounted motor, or the TB-01 with the shaft drive and conceiled drive train.

What is your goal for the car itself?