Ta05ns Setup Help!

[Lotus]

Hello, my son and I race TA05s at our local track, mine is a TA05MS and my son has a TA05 with a 3 racing Carbon chassis, we are the only Tamiya runners in a sea of Schumachers. We are only racing 10 months but have already acquired quiet a selection of TA05s including a TA05R that my son had before changing to the carbon chassis car and then I ran it before getting the MS. I love the whole technical side of RC racing and to that end have read tons of stuff relating to setup etc. but I still cant say Im happy with the handling of my car, my son is only 11 and he just drives around any problems with handling. I know a lot of my problems are self inflicted as I try different things but maybe some of ye out there may suggest things for me to try.

We race at a couple of venues, our local track is in a school gym, it has a tarmac surface that is usually very dusty (football pitch beside it and the hall is used for changing) so its usually very slippery, we run stock 27 turn or 13.5 brushless the tyre of choice is Take Off cc27, the track has mostly tight corners with one long straight 20mtrs approx. The other tracks we run on are polished wooden floors on which we run Schumacher 20mm yellow Mini Pins, these tracks are very tight and technical. When I got the MS it came with a front one way, and I also fitted a one way to my sons for him to try weve done two events on wood and a couple on our local track and we struggled, one of the experienced drivers last weekend told us front one ways are a no no on wood and would say it wouldnt suit our local track either. Ive taken out the one ways and replaced them with standard ball diffs which we will try next Wed night. My latest settings are.. ride height- 5.5 front 5.0 rear. Droop front 2.5mm rear 3.0mm, front toe 1deg out, rear 3deg each side in. camber 1.75deg all round, Tamiya trf shocks three holes, Tamiya soft yellow springs and tamiya soft 400 shock oil, and soft black stabilizer bars front and back. I run a Orion pro stock co27 motor that I had a transmission ratio of 7.50 but I changed it for the last wooden floor event to 8.29 Ive also been having motor problems, it started when I bought both motors for our cars and couldnt get them to run right and eventually figured I had too low a gear ratio that was not allowing the motor to rev, but lately the problem seems to have come back, basically the motor misses or splutters, or stops mid rev for a split second this coupled to a one way on timber makes for a very unstable car to drive, one of the experienced drivers recons the brush springs are losing their tension and this gets worse as the motor heats up, Ive ordered new springs, but last Wed night I ran with the springs bent to provide more pressure on the brushes but it still didnt run right. This is a long first post and I hope somebody out there can suggest some things for us to try, so we can prove that our beloved Tamiyas are a force to be reckoned with, thanks in advance for any replies, Kiki.

[bender]

Your ride height settings seem backwards to me - I don't know of 1 single driver that has runs the ride height higher in the front, it usually lower in the front than rear by 0.5 to 1mm.

With regards to your motor, it actually sounds as though you are getting some sort of interference. Are you running capacitors on the motor and if you are, are they working?

They could be broken.

Also, does your esc require the use of a schottly diode? I would probably fit one just to be sure.

Finally, make sure your receiver aerial doesn't touch any carbon fibre parts - this can cause glitching.

Motor brushes that are too short can also cause problems.

[hedge]

Hello Kiki great Post,

Although seemingly quite detailed, I could not see exactly what you where struggling with - except the motor splutter.

Are you:

1) struggling to run straight

2) no steering

3) twitchy

4) car spinning 360 when turning

Also whats your driving style, if you use a one way braking is a no no, all that happens is the car does a 180. I have driven very successfully on slippy track with little traction using a one way.

If you can post a bit more about what is wrong I might be able to give some options.

BTW the motor would indicate inteference, try all the suggestions above but be careful with the schottky diode make sure this is not going to damage your ESC some ESC manuafacturers warn against them see here note Precautions section

http://www.teamnovak.com/download/instruct...dfs/xrs_ins.pdf

Look forward to hearing from you.

Paul

[Lotus]

Thanks for the reply's lads, I'm just home from a night's racing and the good news is my motor appears to be sorted, my new brush springs arrived and they appeared to be much stiffer than the ones that were in the motor. I also noticed the insulation on the servo to receiver lead had been stripped away I think it may have been rubbing on the end of the center shaft and if it was it could have been causing the interference also when the motor used to start spluttering the steering would get very erratic, but I was blaming the one way for that.

Handling, this is a reply I gave to a fellow racer in another forum,

(Its difficult to say, we held an event last Sept where we cleaned the track (brushed and vacuum cleaned) at that time I was running a TA05R, because the grip level was better than we usually have I found the car much easier to drive and I was able to concentrate on "racing" instead of the usual not crashing! I know a lot of my problems may be my driving ability, but I'm not yet ready to accept I'm ****. Our track is very inconsistent, one night it can be damp, the next dirty the grip levels are always different, also the surface is smooth in some areas and course in others, it will properly improve as the Summer comes but last year I always had major understeer with my standard TA05 but I now know where I was going wrong with my setup, and I was also very much a novice. When we race on timber we have a much more consistent track, it is easier to feel changes when setup changes are made, but since I have got the MS I've ran it with the one way and the car has been very difficult, it takes 100% of my concentration just to stop spinning, entry into corners are knife edge but if I get the entry ok once I get on the power the car will turn well under power and is fairly predictable. What I cant handle is a nervous car I just need a car that is neutral, it doesnt need to be fast that can come later.

Its easy when sitting in a car to tell what its doing as you can feel it through the seat of your pants, its not so easy when youre standing on a bench watching a car and when all your brain power is being used to stay on the track leaving nothing for analyzing what the car is doing.

Its also possible my droop settings are not correct, I've been setting my ride height and droop using a stack of washers, I make a stack of washers 5mm high and adjust the ride height until the car clears them, I then make a stack 8mm high (3mm droop) sit the car on top of them and adjust the droop screws until the wheel just makes contact with the ground. A bit crude! But I have a droop gauge, block and ride height gauge and a Tweak Station on the way so I can hopefully make more accurate measurements.)

I had noticed the different ride height others were using, so tonight I went to the track with 5mm front and 5mm rear, now I dont know if it was that or the front ball diff or the new bottle of tyre additive or the motor running right or the lack of wires rubbing the shaft or the fact the track was washed last week, but I had a completely new car I ended up getting two thirds and a second, now the car felt slow but the lap times were good, I had too much grip on the back and I was suffering serious understeer under power on the exit of the corners, the motor didnt seem to have the power to break the rear traction no matter how I chucked it into the corners. But the car was easy to drive which meant I wasnt making mistakes. I tried putting stiffer springs in the rear, (marginal improvement) and lowered the front by half a turn on the collars.

My sons car was a different story, he had massive oversteer, at first it was undrivable it was like it was pivoting around the front wheels, I improved this by tightening the front diff, but car was still very loose, I tried disconnecting the rear swaybar but he felt it made it worse. We will be racing on wood next Saturday so the story will continue there; I would appreciate any suggestions before then, regards Kieran.

[hedge]

Please dont take any of my comments as negative I really would like to hear it all goes well next saturday, the comments are things that have helped me, I am no pro but I certainly make and win A finals at my club regularly. Please don't do anything you are not comfortable with :-)

Thanks for the reply's lads, I'm just home from a night's racing and the good news is my motor appears to be sorted, my new brush springs arrived and they appeared to be much stiffer than the ones that were in the motor. I also noticed the insulation on the servo to receiver lead had been stripped away I think it may have been rubbing on the end of the center shaft and if it was it could have been causing the interference also when the motor used to start spluttering the steering would get very erratic, but I was blaming the one way for that.

Glad to hear that's solved. Inteference is a pain to us all. Keep your receiver well away from your motor wires.

What I cant handle is a nervous car I just need a car that is neutral, it doesnt need to be fast that can come later.

You said earlier:

ride height- 5.5 front 5.0 rear. Droop front 2.5mm rear 3.0mm, front toe 1deg out, rear 3deg each side in. camber 1.75deg all round, Tamiya trf shocks three holes, Tamiya soft yellow springs and tamiya soft 400 shock oil, and soft black stabilizer bars front and back.

Try the following, normally I would not suggest so many changes, but I think you need to give them all a shot in one go. Try this all on your sons car as yours seems to be behaving and as you will see these settings almost match your car. Note try drivibg your sons car and vice verser see if they feel the same.

For Wood

1) Disconnect the rollbars :: This should give you more grip all round as the car rolls into corners more

2) Good move on the diff keep that for now. :: Less speed through corners than a one way but smoother action plus brakes can be applied.

3) Ride height set to 5mm all round for club racing (5.5m to be safe in competition) :: Just good practice

4) Droop, you need a droop guage, your method is wrong and will cause issues. Buy a droop guage and then set it to (for now) 6 all round. Note this is not 6mm but a setting of 6 on the droop guage. You must disconnect your shock and rollbasr to set the droop. Be very careful to find the exact same spot each side to measure the droop to as well.

5) Shock oil/springs: 45 wt front 35 wt rear, very soft springs on the back, soft springs on the front. You are looking to set the front slightly harder than the rear :: This should solve the oversteer

6) Rear tow in 3.5 degress, front tow out 0-1 degrees :: This (plus droop) should stop the car being twitchy

7) Camber 2 degrees all round :: Standard setting from which to build.

8) Hard to describe but your front diff should ideally be looser than the rear.

Finally tyres are very important, you mention tyre additive, also try some tyre cleaner to help increase grip. So after your race apply the cleaner, then wipe it off and apply the additive. Start with full additive across the backs and half additive on the inside fronts. Keep these settings for a whole nights racing, dont change anything. As the evening goes on the track should change and you should feel the difference between races 1 and 2. If this works there are ways to approach race 1 vs 2,3,4 etc but first you need to gain/re-gain some confidence in the car.

Good luck.

[Lotus]

Thanks Paul, I am going to set Alans car as you suggest, we are running Minipins on Saturday but no tyre additive is allowed. What is this tyre cleaner you have mentioned? also can you suggest a way to take away some of my understeer, do you know the Tamiya viscosity rating I have 200, 300, and 400, also 60wt and 90wt, regards, Kieran.

[hedge]

Thanks Paul, I am going to set Alans car as you suggest, we are running Minipins on Saturday but no tyre additive is allowed. What is this tyre cleaner you have mentioned? also can you suggest a way to take away some of my understeer, do you know the Tamiya viscosity rating I have 200, 300, and 400, also 60wt and 90wt, regards, Kieran.

Hi Kieran,

Having re-read your email I am curious as to how you are setting up the camber and tow on your car without the setup jig. It's very important to be very precise with the tow in/out, the camber is important but won't affect the car not as much as the tow. Also droop is very important to set right as it will adversly affect the cars acceleration and cornering ability. BTW to clarify that before I get shot down if left camber was 1 degree and right was 2 degrees you may not notice. If left tow is 1 degree and right is 2 degress your car will not go straight at all and if your droop settings at the front differ by small amounts then when you accelerate you will find the car appears to torque steer.

Cornering: The big stuff that makes big differences on understeer in sort of descending order:

-Steering throw this should be set to about 22-23 degrees - this is how far the wheels turn.

-Tyres too hard cs27 should be ok, softer compounds are available ask the top races at the club what they use

-Shock Oil too thick > 50wt

-Shock springs too hard - should be soft with the rears being super soft to start

-Front Diff to tighter than the rear - This is a bit hard to explain. Without being there I would ask the top racers how they set up

- Droop (not sure where to put this :-) )

There are others, but for now if the car is set up as in the previous post then I would look at these areas. This is all just for a standard setup, once its working drive it for about 3-4 weeks so you understand how it works then start making single adjustments each race and see how they affect / improve the car.

Also - and this is a big pain. You should strip the car, check parts for wear, top up shock oil, re-grease parts that need it, check and wash all the bearings with motor cleaner then re-oil with teflon based oil and finally set the car up on the set up jig - Tow, Camber, Droop, Ride Height about once a month (and before all big races). You should time this process and aim to do it in about 2 hours flat.

Good luck looking forward to hearing about it.

BTW the Tyre cleaner I use in the UK is Death Grip by Trinity I found this link:

http://www.chapelradiocontrol.com/shop/tri...ner-p-2713.html

[Lotus]

I have a Hudy setup system, Toe, Camber, Castor and steering throw. With the front tracking, I have never taken any notice of wether the front wheels are straight or not, I usually set one wheel on the 0deg line of the Hudy and set the other 1deg out. I have at an earlier build made sure both steering arms are the same length and when adjusting the tracking adjusting both arms equal amounts. If the car does not run straight I just adjust the steering trim to center it. My transmitter is very basic and has no steering turn limit. The tyre additive I have is Muchmore Blue Sap. The oversteer my son had on Wed night I've been thinking might have been caused by on over tight rear diff, am I right in thinking if the rear diff is tighter than the front it would oversteer under power more? The understeer I had on Wed night could that have been caused by a front diff tighter than the rear, I've loosened the front diff on my car by half a turn, we'll see how it goes, regards, Kieran.

[hedge]

The oversteer my son had on Wed night I've been thinking might have been caused by on over tight rear diff, am I right in thinking if the rear diff is tighter than the front it would oversteer under power more? The understeer I had on Wed night could that have been caused by a front diff tighter than the rear, I've loosened the front diff on my car by half a turn, we'll see how it goes, regards, Kieran.

Hi Kieran,

As a rule of thumb the rear diff should be set to fully tight and the front diff slightly looser. Now this is harder to explain than do, but try to have the rear diff fully tight and then perhaps loosen the front by 1/4 turns each run until you get the response you need.

Good luck

Paul

[highflyer]

Racing on wooden floors, must be hard to figure out setup.. I have never raced on a wooden floor but the suggestions above sound intriguing. Just wondering, did you race the TA05MS with a stock setup first? I ask because that is rule of thumb and adjustments should be made after running the stock setup.. But it sound like you have things figured out..

GOOD LUCK Lotus

[Lotus]

Ok, here's how it went. Alans car we set up as Paul suggested, I didn't get a chance to drive it but watching it, it seemed to be pretty well sorted, it turned in well and there didn't appear to be any understeer on the exit, But! I had a talk with him about overdriving as that was what I think he was doing he was crashing a lot. When he was calm he could put a few laps together that were very fast and more than a match for those around him and his lap times were right up there, but then he'd make a mistake and then it was crash after crash, it looked to me that he was driving at 100% with nothing in reserve, trottle application was full on or off and sometimes the trottle application was so early in the corner he would have a massive power slide on the exit but keep the trottle full open as he fish tailed down the straight. (which often ended with the rear of the car clipping the hose and spinning) What advice do you give to an 11 year old, he has the raw talent to be good at this but doesn't know his limit, doesn't know how much to slow down to be able to run without crashing. Or is it possible its the car's fault? that his car is not easy to drive? He qualified 5th in group C and stopped half way through when the ESC lead came loose from the reciever. My car was greatly improved, most of this improvement was due to the front ball diff, I ran the yellow springs on the front and white on the back I still had understeer so I changed to Red on the front and Yellow on the back this improved things slightly and for the last heat and final I removed the front stabliser but I dont think that made much of a difference. I qualified on pole for the D final and had an easy win. Overall an improvement on the last time we were there but still a long way to go. The track was very tight and technical the polished floor was very slippery and even the A drivers (some who are factory drivers) were getting caught out. We are going to leave the setups as there are for next Wed night to see how the cars run on our home track. Regards, Kieran.

[Lotus]

Highflyer I bought the car off Ebay and it was two months old, I checked out everything and made sure everything was even but I never checked to see if the settings it had were stock, if it dosen't run well next Wed I'll might go back to the stock setup, thanks Kieran.

[hedge]

Hello Kieren, Sounds quite positive , picking through your reply I have a couple of questions...

When he was calm he could put a few laps together that were very fast and more than a match for those around him and his lap times were right up there

This suggests your sons problems are over driving. However keep the settings for at least a couple of weeks to allow him to adjust his driving style the car. Then as you say there might be some changes to tweak the set up.

Or is it possible its the car's fault? that his car is not easy to drive?

Does the ESC allow you to adjust its punch rate? This is how quick you go from 0 - 100% power. If you can put it to its lowest setting. See how that goes in 1 race then re-adjust to find the sweeet spot of acceleration vs handling.

My car was greatly improved, most of this improvement was due to the front ball diff, I ran the yellow springs on the front and white on the back I still had understeer so I changed to Red on the front and Yellow on the back this improved things slightly and for the last heat and final I removed the front stabliser but I dont think that made much of a difference.

Yes the diff makes a big difference. You are right to think about the shocks as well. Are Red springs harder than Yellow? Also whats the shock oil on both? Did you change this? As an FYI on Friday (My race night) I increased my shock oil by 5wt from 40 - 45 on the front and it completely changed the way the car performed (less twitchy more stable). I was racing a 19turn brushed motor and missed beating a 3.5t Brushless 5 cell modified FTQ by 5 secs - Before the oil change I was 2 laps down! It made all the difference.

Stabilisers keep your car flat and stop it rolling, however on a slippery surface you should find that chassis roll increases grip, I am surprised to hear you did not notice the difference. However keep it as is for a week or so then scrap both rollbars for 1 race and see what a difference it makes. As you learn more about how your car handles you will notice how the changes affect your car.

Can't wait to hear more, good luck on Wednesday.

[Lotus]

The Tweak station and Droop gauges arrived today, of course I was itching to check out both cars. My car the chassis was tweaked, I loosened the top deck twisted it back tightened it up and its perfect now. I also found my Droop settings were all over the shop, (local saying here meaning not all exactly the same ) I put the 10mm blocks under the front and rear chassis, slid the droop gauge under the hub and set them to six all round, it that how its done? (No instructions). Alans car was also twisted, reset his but something wasn't right, I then copped he has the short swing arms on the rear and one short on the front the other front arm was the same as the ones used in the TA05R and the MS. I had several sets of spare 05R and MS arms so I replaced the short ones with these. Any idea what effect this would have on handling? I will finish off rebuilding tomorrow night. The whole Tamiya spring thing is a bit confusing,

I have 53163 On-Road tuned spring set (4wd/fwd Touring & Rally Car) these come in -Red (soft) -Yellow (medium) -Blue (stiff)

I also have 53440 On- Road Tuned Hard Spring Set these come in Red (soft) -Yellow (medium) -Blue (stiff) and -White (extra stiff)

Now I may be imagining this but the second set appears to be harder than the equivalent colors in the first set. Alan's ESC does not have a punch rate adjustment. Kieran.

[highflyer]

What advice do you give to an 11 year old, he has the raw talent to be good at this but doesn't know his limit, doesn't know how much to slow down to be able to run without crashing

Kieran, all he needs like others his age is practice with a car he is comfortable with. WORLD CHAMPS practice... It is hard to tell an 11 year old to slow down (speed is FUN) when needed but he will learn the more he races and parts breakage. Also, have him watch the Top Drivers at the track. He will GET IT

-Rob

[hedge]

The Tweak station and Droop gauges arrived today, of course I was itching to check out both cars. My car the chassis was tweaked, I loosened the top deck twisted it back tightened it up and its perfect now.

This could be the cause of your understeer.

I also found my Droop settings were all over the shop, (local saying here meaning not all exactly the same ) I put the 10mm blocks under the front and rear chassis, slid the droop gauge under the hub and set them to six all round, it that how its done? (No instructions).

I don't personally use the blocks, just push the guage flat against my chassis. However all I would add is do it with the shocks off (just the top or bottom) and the anti-roll bar dis-connected.

Alans car was also twisted, reset his but something wasn't right, I then copped he has the short swing arms on the rear and one short on the front the other front arm was the same as the ones used in the TA05R and the MS. I had several sets of spare 05R and MS arms so I replaced the short ones with these. Any idea what effect this would have on handling?

My guess is the shorter arms will reduce chassis roll, something that would help on high grip tracks Longer the better in this instance .

The whole Tamiya spring thing is a bit confusing,

I have 53163 On-Road tuned spring set (4wd/fwd Touring & Rally Car) these come in -Red (soft) -Yellow (medium) -Blue (stiff)

I also have 53440 On- Road Tuned Hard Spring Set these come in Red (soft) -Yellow (medium) -Blue (stiff) and -White (extra stiff)

Now I may be imagining this but the second set appears to be harder than the equivalent colors in the first set. Alan's ESC does not have a punch rate adjustment. Kieran.

I would use these 53163 On-Road tuned spring set Red on the rear and 53163 On-Road tuned spring set Yellow on the front.

You should have a fairly neutral car at this stage. Thats not to say it wont need adjusting, but it should at least be fairly consistent.

Things to think about:

Tyres - put full aditive on the rears but try the difference between half and full on the front.

Front Diff - Looser than the rear

Rear Diff - as tight as it will go without breaking anything.

Shocks - Front slight stiffer than the rear also check they are full of oil for me this is a weekly check (and I hate it my shocks leak )

Shock Oil: Front #400 Rear #300 shock oil this is the equivalent of 40wt - 30wt

I am convinced the above should help, but my tips below are after trying that. BUT please try it for 2 races unchanged as the track also changes as it is used.

If you still get understeer

1 - full additive

2 - loosen front diff

3 - Empty the front shocks and use #300 - this should be something you can do at the club.

If you still suffer understeer switch the springs if your car oversteers you know that it worked Then get another pair of red springs from the same set above and put them all round.

Lastly I really hope this helps and BTW where do you race?

Paul

[Lotus]

Thanks Paul, I'm going to leave both set as they were last Saturday, (apart from tweak, droop, different length arms and tyres ) I think the pieces are starting to fall into place and the best part is I'm learning, I read your blog and noted how meticulous you were in your approach and how you only changed one thing at a time, this is where I have been going wrong, I've done a lot of reading but sometimes what you read doesnt make sense until you have gained a bit more experience, the proper tools are also important. I enjoy the whole technical aspect of RC cars and nailing the handling is one goal I want to achieve, I have headed to the track many times on a Wed night with the cars setup completely changed looking forward to seeing how the changes I have made will work out, more often than not disappointed, but not deterred. Where you changed one thing at a time I could not resist the temptation to change many things. I have also changed my car three times since I started racing last May/June a TA05 then a TA05R and now the MS. With the TA05 I constantly hopped up the car and was making setup changes even before I had even learnt to drive it properly. But then 50% of the enjoyment I get from RC racing comes from working on the car, mind you that percentage will most likely change if I get more competitive. There is only so much work can be done on the car so if the results dont start coming I think the interest will start to fade.

I live half ways between Cork and Limerick in Co. Cork, I race in Fermoy which is 20 miles from me, we travel to Dublin to race on timber in Lucan and Taney. Dublin model club race buggies outdoor during the summer and touring car indoor during the winter. Lucan model car club race touring cars outdoor during the summer and indoor on timber in the winter. Our club Fermoy Model Car Club race indoor on tarmac summer and winter but there are plans to build an off-road track during the summer. In our club we have about 25 members with 10 to 12 racing every Wed night. We have two classes Group A and Group B and the drivers stay in their group for the length of the championship. A couple of qualifying nights determine what class a driver will run in. Ive been in the B class since I started. Our race night is only two and a half hours long so there is not much time for work on the car. Are you still running the Yokomo or have you changed? We ran a one day event last year called the Munster GP which was a great success with drivers from all over Ireland attending, we all ran 27 turn but we had a separate 19turn race for the boys from Northern Ireland. Maybe we might be able to tempt some of you UK based drivers to come over for this years event, we might even make it a two day event! Enough of my ranting, regards Kieran.

[Lotus]

This is a link to our clubs forum if anyone's interested http://www.fermoymodelcarclub.tk/ Kieran.

[hedge]

Hi Kieran,

The Yokomo has been retired , I now race an Associated TC5. RC racing can be an expensive business so the idea behind the Blog was to show people that you could race competitively at club level on a small budget. I love racing and encourage as many people to do it as possible.

I race with a great group all of which have helped me understand the geometry of the cars and like to pass on anything that has helped me. My biggest buzz however is the racing itself. I was hoping you where racing on the mainland and we could meet up at a race meeting, but who knows, maybe I could come to Ireland?

I hope your set-up works well

Cheers

Paul

[Lotus]

Well mixed bag tonight, first of all I think we have made a big step forward, drivers that a few months ago were a long way ahead of us are now beatable, and this only dawned on me tonight. Tonight I was able to race, the car was easy enough to drive enabling me to think about my lines and what line to take to help get past someone in front, now the car was not perfect I still have power on understeer on right hand corners, but the car turns very well to the left. I now have almost no oversteer and that means almost no crashes and my lap times are also very good. Here is a breakdown of tonights racing.

1-Track was very dusty; cars were filthy by the end of the night.

2-Tyres, some of the drivers are evaluating treaded tyres v slicks, when its dusty like tonight treaded may be faster, I run slicks only. Some others were on treaded.

3-Batteries, Its becoming obvious we am starting to have battery problems, we have 7 batteries, all stick packs with Deans connectors, two 3000mah, two 3600mah, one 3700mah, one 3900mah and a 4200mah. I have noticed my car running slower on some batteries, so tonight before heading to the track I tested all the batteries, I connected a volt meter across them and then connected a headlamp bulb to see what they would deliver under load;

3000mah no load 8.17v with load 7.45v

3000mah no load 8.21v with load 7.49v

3600mah no load 8.30v with load 7.70v

3600mah no load 8.21v with load 7.41v

3700mah no load 8.14v with load 7.75v

3900mah no load 8.10v with load 7.66v

4200mah no load 8.15v with load 7.91v

The difference between the best 7.91v and the worst 7.41v is half a volt and with the current the motor draws this difference is most likely larger. The thing is I can feel a hugh difference between the best battery and the worst, the worst battery is slow off the line and very slow looking down the straight it also doesn't have enough power to slide the car. The strange thing is the weaker batteries seem to affect my car more than Alans, maybe I need to look at my motor and speed controller. I charge the batteries with an Orion delta peak charger and normally charge them at 3Amps. As they are stick packs I cannot discharge the cells individually so I have a discharger that discharges then down to 5.4volts.

I ran my weakest battery in the first race and finished second, the driver that won was running a Mi2 with a brushless setup and passed me down the straight like I was stopped but wasnt that far ahead in the end.

I refitted my front sway bar for the second race, had a couple of incidents and finished two laps down.

Third and final race was a good one, great battle between Alan two other drivers and me for the lead, my race finished half way through when my servo horn became detached. I removed the front swaybar again as I think it felt better in the first race.

Alan was again complaining of oversteer in the first race, for the second heat I refitted the front sway bar, and the third heat I tightened the rear diff, I also had a chat with him about throttle control and told him with the diff tight on the rear wheels he would have to be more careful with the throttle, he was having a great battle with us until his battery gave out. He couldn't say if the car was better or not because he was trying this gradual throttle application thing I had been telling him about, but he had a good race and was happy and I think he learned a valuable lesson. On our way home I was quizzing him about the handling of his car and from what I gathered he has loads of steering and the rear of the car just slides around, so I think we can afford to loose some grip at the front. Hey Paul when we organize our next big event maybe we can invite yourself and some friends or maybe your club over to race and make a weekend of it, what do you think? Highflyer as well but I think he would have a little further to come Stay well, Kieran.

[hedge]

Hey Kieran,

Sounds really positive I am very pleased I just love racing specially pressurising people ahead of me until they make a mistake

perfect I still have power on understeer on right hand corners, but the car turns very well to the left.

Stick you setup kit on the car turn it left and see how many degrees it goes then do the same right and see what you get. I know you don't have endpoint adjustment on your transmitter but it will at least show you why there is a difference.

As far as batteries go this is a whole new thread really however here's my quick run down - not advice, just stuff

1) For NiMh ideally you want to charge at above 1C for racing

1C = 3000mha : charge at 3amps

You won't be getting the best out of any of your batteries at 3amp. For me I charge 4200mha at 5 Amps, my racing friends charge 4200's at anything up to 6 amps.

The strange thing is the weaker batteries seem to affect my car more than Alans

May be explained by...

2) NiMh batteries improve the second time (in the evening/race day) you charge them. Some people "cycle" their batteries, that is they charge it up full, then discharge it and re-charge it before racing. For you I would just use 2 packs each per race night, this will give you 2 slow runs and then a fast run in the final.

To get the best from NiMh you want to match capacity (discharge times) and resistance and voltage of the batteries, but this requires race packs not stick packs and also you need a discharger like the Trinity DP (approx 100 ). You could convert your SP to RP but then I think its a waste as you should not mix batteries of different mah.

- - -

- - - = stick

|||||| = race

If it where me I would just stick with the NiMh until they die then get LiPo. LiPo is much easier to look after and will give you consistent performance throughout the race / life of the battery.

Motors again another thread but basically:

Brushed motors need comms trueing every 5-10 races (max) . Don't buy a lathe unless someone is giving it away < 20 for a diamond tipped version. Just buy a Brushless motor and esc when funds allow. These don't need Trueing at all and perform race after race .

Tyre warmers, motor coolers, motor testers, digital transmitters, fast steering servos, unlimited ESC's etc etc etc....

Nothing replaces good racing practice and skill - just enjoy.

[Lotus]

Paul, I already have a Lathe with a diamond tip, I'm going to cut the comm on it befors the next night, I'm involved in an event for the full scale version this weekend so I wont get much time to do much. Kieran.

[WillyChang]

CS27s sound like they'll be too hard for indoors on woodfloor... we used CS27 outdoors on a warmish day

CS22 would give you the most grip on indoors wood with out scouthall racers.

But they are a moot point now that TakeOff is no longer.

[Lotus]

Willy we run Schumacher Minipins on timber indoor and CS27s on tarmac indoor, what would be a good alternative to the CS27s, my son runs KTR G compound 23 they seem to be alright must try and make a comparison, kieran.

[Lotus]

Just home from another night's racing, my old problem of the motor stuttering and steering twitching came back tonight.(must be a wire loose in the reciver somewhere) The only changes I made to the car for tonight was increase rear droop from 2.4mm(6mm on my Droop guage) to 3.5mm(5mm on my droop guage) the thinking behind this was to increase weight transfer to the front wheels, which would reduce the understeer I was suffering last week. The difference this adjustment made was dramatic, the car now had oversteer, it was like when taking a right hand corner with the front right hand wheel glued to the track under trottle the car would rotate around that wheel quiet suddenly. For the second heat I turned out the front droop screws .25 of a turn (adding more droop) this inproved matters a bit but the stuttering problem started so I had to retire. For the third heat another .25 of a turn out, had a better race and finished second. In the final I made a clean break was nearly a lap ahead cruising when the stuttering came back so I had to pull over. I cant compare my laps times to last week as the track layout was slightly different, and tonight the track surface seemed to have a little dampness in it compared to last week. I also trued the comm and fitted new brushes so I might have had a little extra punch out of the corners which also might have changed the feel of the car. Kieran.