Is It Worth Running A Sport Tuned In 27t Stock Touring Car Class?

[reenmachine]

I'm just putting together a TA05 to race in novice 27T stock touring car. After watching last Sunday's race it was obvious that many racers had waaaaay too much car for their skill level. Half the speed with smoother driving would have finished much better -- I put down faster laps in my silver can Mini Cooper race than the bottom few touring car finishers.

So, I was thinking of running a Sport Tuned in the TA05 to start out with instead of a fully tricked out 27T racing motor. My thinking is that the lower overall power will help me be smoother and more consistent, which equals success in novice. It seems that too much power in inexperienced hands leads to the "point and squirt" driving style where you hamfistedly bash through a corner and then blast in a straight line to the next train wreck of a corner.

Do you think this is a sound approach? I'm not concerned with finishing first right now but rather with developing a smooth, clean style.

[Backlash]

OK, for starters, the sports tuned motor is a 23 (or something) turn motor, so is hardly legal for racing in 27 turn rebuildable stock class.. I would not see a problem if you were to run a 540 silver can, as it is also a 27 turn motor, but then that will depend on your club and the other racers in the class..

There are quite a few "legal" options for altering car performance.. Gearing would be the first thing to look at... I dont know what ESC you are using, but have you considered turning the "punch" control down (if it has one) or maybe select a modified motor profile (if you can alter the profiles).... This would make the acceleration less harsh, and therefore make the car easier to drive.. You could also limit the top end slightly if your overall top speed is to high....

You have the right idea though...... To go faster, sometimes you need to go slower.. (think about it)

Cheers

[reenmachine]

OK, for starters, the sports tuned motor is a 23 (or something) turn motor, so is hardly legal for racing in 27 turn rebuildable stock class..

I don't think that's so. I read a lot of threads about this topic, and it seems that the Sport Tuned was once 27T in some countries and 23T in others but eventually it went to 27T everywhere.

There are quite a few "legal" options for altering car performance.. Gearing would be the first thing to look at... I dont know what ESC you are using, but have you considered turning the "punch" control down (if it has one) or maybe select a modified motor profile (if you can alter the profiles).... This would make the acceleration less harsh, and therefore make the car easier to drive.. You could also limit the top end slightly if your overall top speed is to high....

Good point. I am putting this thing together on the cheap to start with, so I have a spare TEU101-BK ESC I will be using. However, I will be using my existing Futaba 3PM tx which gives me control of the throttle and steering response.

You have the right idea though...... To go faster, sometimes you need to go slower.. (think about it)

I know it. I used to road race real cars and when I was learning, "slow is fast" was the instructor's mantra.

[WillyChang]

Sporttuned is not a IFMAR/ROAR legal 27T motor.

Any racing 27T motor will be more powerful than a Sporttuned and the latest ones are rebuildable (openable can).

Best to get a new motor if you're racing; if you think its too fast for your race then don't gear it so high... racers crank the max out of their gearing to get every last ounce of speed, but if you're running on a tight track it could be better to go lower and gain better pickup out of corners.

[hedge]

Not sure if your club is like ours but in the Novice race there is no strict adherance to rules regarding motors so i would just ask if its OK to run the sport tuned or even the silver can. You are 100% correct on your theory regarding running slower to gain experience I would pitch 2 aims to you

1) Stay off the boards for a whole race - achieve that and you are under control

2) I assume your club has a way of measuring lap time and hopefully posts results for you to read... Try and get your fastest lap as close as possible to your average lap. As an example on an 8 second a lap track 0.5 secs between them is top marks 1 second excellent, 2 -3 seconds pat on the back, 4 seconds good. What you dont want - and is easy is to achieve when for instance the words MARSHAAAALLLLL comes out your mouth a couple of times a lap is 10-15 secs.

Good luck.

Paul

[highflyer]

I like your approach to the novice class, I see racers with too much power and not enough skill which equals 'CARNAGE'. Like others said above, it depends on your clubs rules. I thought all Sport Tuned were soft 23T motors . The TEU101-BK is not a speed Demon in comparison to other ESC's with forward only use, you should be comfortable with it..

[Bogey]

When my brushless speedo blew I fitted a Sport tuned motor, Tamiya ESC and some stick batteries. I drove my butt off and kept it nice and smooth and made it to the A at my local club. The following week my speedo was back and the LIPO`s were back and I only made it to the B. There were other factors which contributed to this but I would agree the less torquey motors can be used to increase your driving style and ability.

[reenmachine]

Well, here it is, and the Sport Tuned is in there. I ran it around the parking lot and it doesn't seem super fast, but it's obvious that I can find a lot more time through setup than through more power right now. I'm taking it to the track tonight for some testing, and Sunday is race day. A friend gave me a custom 27T stock race motor that I may try if I'm turning good laps with the black can, but for now I'm still sticking with the original plan. I am getting a lightly-used lipo pack tonight though.

Check it out:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.a...31&id=23848

[reenmachine]

I love it when a plan comes together...but it's a longer story than that!

So I was sticking with the plan to run the Sport Tuned in my box-stock TA-05 in Novice Stock Touring Car -- my first R/C race other than my one Mini Cooper race. I got on track with a couple of the other guys in the class for open practice and was running some pretty quick laps. Quick enough that a couple of them were questioning whether the Sport Tuned was really a 27T motor. Since I had a decent feel for the car and was keeping it off the boards I decided to swap it out for the fully tricked-out Team Br00d 27T that everyone agreed was 100% legal:

http://www.teambrood.com/catalog/product_i...products_id=820

Naturally, the car was blazingly fast and very obviously quicker and faster than with the Sport Tuned.

So the first heat gets underway and I'm doing well. I'm in P2 closing on the leader when at about the 4-minute mark the car just comes to a stop. Argh! DNF.

I assumed that the hot motor must have been too much for the TEU-101BK ESC to handle and it must have thermaled out. I swapped guts with my Mini Cooper since it's just running a silver can and I knew the TEU would be fine in there. It had a Futaba M230CR ESC. I got the TA-05 back together with the new ESC in time for the 2nd heat.

Second heat is going great! I'm actually leading and it looks like it'll stay that way when, again at about the 4-minute mark, the car dies. AAAAARRRRRGGGGH! DNF again.

So I figure it's got to be the motor overheating and I decide to put the Sport Tuned back in. Since I DNFed both heats, I'm in the B Main, which only consists of three cars. The winner of the B Main gets to move up to the A main gridding 10th. I just went smooth and steady in the B Main and won with like 3 laps on the other two cars.

Now I'm in the A Main after all and at the back of the grid. Again, the Sport Tuned ran beautifully and gave me much better control through the tight infield and I quickly moved up towards the front. After about half the race I was in P2 and closing on the leader with P3 almost a lap down. Then, while working my way through traffic, I took a hit from another car and was dead again! However, this time after about 10 seconds (seemed like minutes) it came back to life. I had lost a couple positions but managed to get them back when another sharp impact knocked me out again. Ten more excruciating dead seconds and I was once again on my way. I worked back to P2 but the leader had put a lap on me while I was comatose so I backed off and just tried to nurse it home.

It went the distance and I finished 2nd. I was psyched with my performance as out of the 17 laps about 10 of them were within half a second of each other (~16 second laps), there were two with an extra 10-12 seconds on them (the problem laps), and the others were within a couple seconds as I was in traffic.

So I feel good, but now I have a ghost to chase! I am changing my battery connectors to Deans from the stock Tamiya. Any other ideas?

Futaba M230CR ESC

Futaba R603FF 2.4GHz Fasst rx

Futaba 3004 servo

[reenmachine]

Just for the record, I emailed Tamiya USA to find out for sure whether or not the Sport Tuned is a 27T motor. Turns out it is. Hopefully this debate can end!

Here's the reply I received on April 29, 2008:

Dear Tamiya Customer,

If you are looking to run this motor in a stock 27t class you can,

however, I would definitely recommend investing in a motor such as the

Trinity CO27 Cobalt instead. While the motor is a 27t, it could not come

close to competing with other 27t stock motors on the market.

Tamiya America,

Customer Service

[highflyer]

Just for the record, I emailed Tamiya USA to find out for sure whether or not the Sport Tuned is a 27T motor. Turns out it is. Hopefully this debate can end!

Here's the reply I received on April 29, 2008:

I race with the CO27 PRO and it is a beast, my esc is a Novak GTX so it is full ON POWER...

[reenmachine]

To follow up...

I sent the M230CR and the R603FF rx off to Futaba today to see what's wrong with them.

For the 2nd race outing last Sunday, I put the Team Brood 27T back in, but with a heat sink and fan on it and a Novak Rooster ESC. I also ran lipo and thus had to ballast the car to get it up to the 1525g min weight, which allowed me to balance it out nicely.

I changed the stock 22t pinion to 20t to ease the strain on the motor.

The only other change from box-stock TA-05 is a switch to Sorex 36R tires, which made a big difference.

Long story short, won both heats and the A main!

[Scooter79rs]

After watching last Sunday's race it was obvious that many racers had waaaaay too much car for their skill level.

I ran my near stock TT-01 in the 27T class yesterday I won because of what you mentioned. I may have had a top speed of 30kph while everyone else were doing 35+ with one person clocking 47kph, but I was the only one would could stay on the track.

It was my first race as well and I was doing 32-33 second lap times

Im thinking of upgraging to the sports tuned engine, how much faster/quicker is the sports tuned over the silver can?

or what else could be a good and fast 27t engine that can run on the TEU-101BK ESC, I will change my gearing if needed to a 58t spur

Car specs:

TT-01 chassis

Ford GT body

22t pinion

61t spur

3000mah nimh batt

near bald tyres

Coming soon:

red heat sink

ball bearings

alloy shaft.

[94eg!]

Im thinking of upgraging to the sports tuned engine, how much faster/quicker is the sports tuned over the silver can?

or what else could be a good and fast 27t engine that can run on the TEU-101BK ESC, I will change my gearing if needed to a 58t spur

The TEU-101BK is only rated at 60A continuous power. Even a stock silver-can Mabuchi pulls more than that at startup. Your gonna have to do some custom work on your ESC to get it run anything more than a Sport-Tuned. Of course you could be lucky and get one of those rare 101s that just keeps running no matter what it's attached to...

Personally I would take the case off of it, install actual heatsinks (instead of that stupid metal plate), and put a fan on it. In racing it's just as much about reliability as it is about speed & power...

BTW: My CO27 powered 415 (starting from 7th) was able to win our local A-main two weeks ago against a 19T Comodo Powered sedan (starting 1st). The other driver was unable to maintain smooth lines due to the excess available power making him drive too agressive. Power is nothing without control...

[Scooter79rs]

Looks like I'm going to go with a Sports Tuned, I have been told about the problems with the TEU-101BK of one car going through 10 so far with a car thats only running a silver can. Looks like in the near future it'll be good idea to invest in a better ESC, one thats suitable for a 19T. Hopefully when I put bearings in everything won't get as hot.

I can keep a car on the track with good smooth lines, so being able to control a car isn't a problem for me.

[94eg!]

...in the near future it'll be good idea to invest in a better ESC, one thats suitable for a 19T....

If you want a serious competition ESC for an amazing price, I came across this today:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-items-sale...-motor-esc.html

For $60 shipped (in US) NIB it is truely unbelieveable. I thought we were getting amazing deals at $80 shipped. You will certainly have to work quickly as things sell on RCTech very quick. The guy has a pretty decent rating and he's been on RCTech for a long time.

BTW: You don't want to look at the ESC's turn limit to decide if it's good for competition. Any serious ESC will have no motor limit, very low internal resistance and no reverse. It's the low internal resitance that really wakes up your motor and allows maximum power from the battery. The KO VFS-1 ESCs have been winning top races since they first came out. As far as brushed ESCs go, these are the best. Plus you can always find a used programmer unit to alter the ESCs drive frequencies for the different types of motors...

PS: This ESC is definitely for the advanced hobbiest/racer. You will have to solder the wires onto the ESC & motor, capacitor onto the ESC and diode onto the motor. You will also have to provide your own battery connector (use deans or better for racing). This means you NEED to have good skills with the soldering iron (40watt min & no soldering guns)...