Baja King To Baja Bug-will It Work?

[Danbox]

I have wanted to make a "Poor man's Scorcher" for a while, but I don't really like the way 2 wheel drive buggies handle. I was thinking about using a Baja King with a spare lexan beetle shell I have. Anybody tried this? Should I use a Gravel Hound/RS/Plasma Edge instead?

Thanks!

[Mad Ax]

In theory, you could use any 4wd buggy to do this. The hardest part will be getting body posts to fit, but if you're not afraid of making up new parts then it shouldn't be much of a challenge.

As to what buggy to use - it really depends on what you want it for. The Baja King is basically a TL01 touring car with wide suspension arms, longer shocks and buggy wheels. The chassis was never designed for off-road use and isn't the most stable platform, and it doesn't come very well specced. However, they can he had extremely cheap.

The DF02 range of chassis are superior to the TL01B as they were actually designed for off-road use, although they are quite basic and have low ground clearance.

My 4wd Tamiya Buggy Recommendation is the DF03. These come with ball bearings, oil shocks, adjustable suspension, and are a very good package. There are buckets of hop-ups available, but you don't need them right away as it drives well in standard trim.

The only problem I foresee is that all modern buggy chassis (4wd specifically, applies to a lesser extend to 2wd) are longer and wider than a standard 1/10 body. As such, your lexan beetle shell might look a bit lost on top of the chassis. Whether or not this is a problem depends on your perspective. The original Sand Scorcher is so loved because it looks like a real Baja racer - the wheels are correctly positioned under the shell. Any modern 4wd buggy will be too long and too wide. If you're after performance over looks then this won't be a problem. If you want something that looks great, you not like it.

An alternative is to chop down a standard TL01 chassis, fit CVAs with longer bottom eyes to maximise the ground clearance, fit rally tyres, and have a 4wd rally-style beetle.

Plus it'll never be a real "poor man's scorcher" because we all know Beetles are RWD only

[Danbox]

I thought about doing the ever-popular Hopper/Hornet baja, but I'm too trigger happy with 2 wheel drive buggies. I like the idea of the Baja king because it has decent ground clearance and is cheap. I had the rally version, and liked the amount of speed it had. Maybe the fish-tailing of 2wheel drive cars is part of the fun!

[Wrc action]

What about something like this?

Extended MO4 with a mix of TB01 and Tl01 suspension, very stable, fast and with good travel, also good stock bodymounts and even trottle heavy here can drive it well as with the large rear tyres from carson its well planted and very good at direction changes thanks to the simple and effective steering and lightweight.

A full build thread can be found here http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?...t=0&start=0

regards Ryck

[Origineelreclamebord]

I would suggest you use the short (regular TL01) arms for the car instead of long ones from the baja king. I think the long arms will make it look way too wide, more like a blitzer beetle than a baja beetle... It will roll over a bit more easily though, but to me things should be a bit scale at least

You can also go for a TA02. It's a perfect base for an off-road car since it has buggy influences in the chassis (Manta Ray, Blazing Star, Dirt Thrasher) and they can be easily converted from onroad by simply getting longer springs and removing the spacers in the suspension.

I have one and I am very satisfied with it... It handles better than my TL01, can be adjusted further and is easier to work on if you need to fix something.

The other nice thing of the TA02 is that if you think the long buggy suspension is too wide and the short suspension not wide enough, you can go for the suspension arms of the Hummer, which are 205mm (the short touring/rally car arms are 190mm, the long buggy ones 250mm)

[Danbox]

Thanks guys!

I actually quite like the Blitzer beetle , but I want something still in production. All of these suggestions are great, but I'm still gravitating towards the BK because it's a very simple design. (steering, etc.) I guess my main concern was about the dimensions. Hopper-Scorchers look great, and the BK is very close to the same length, so it seemed feasible.

[terry.sc]

Baja King and DF-02 cars have the same short wheelbase as they are both converted touring cars, anything else is too long. Given the choice I would go for the TL01B as its proper buggy suspension gives you plenty of suspension travel and ground clearance for off road use. The DF02 cars still use the TT01 plastic propshaft and driveshafts, compared with the steel versions on the TL01B.

[Danbox]

Yeah, ground clearance is important. That was one of my gripes about the Sand Viper I sold. It was cool, but kind of Squirrelly and too low to the ground for my taste.

[Danbox]

Another question,

If I run a Baja King with (rear) Wild Willy 2 wheels, will the motor (probably a Sport Tuned) overheat?

[markbt73]

Another question,

If I run a Baja King with (rear) Wild Willy 2 wheels, will the motor (probably a Sport Tuned) overheat?

It might. It will certainly struggle. I tried that combination once, with a 27 turn, and it just wasn't any fun. Very fast on level ground, but it took forever to get up to speed and it had no guts at all off road. I think I ended up using HPI Super RS4 wheels on it (the same size as standard 2.2 buggy wheels).

[Wrc action]

Personally I wouldnt go near a TL01B for I simply do not rate the chassis design and espically the gear ratios which are way to low to allow you to run larger tyres without putting such a strain on your motor.

I think you would be better off perhaps taking an MO4 and adding the TL01B suspension should you wish to make something so wide, or jacking up a DF02/sand viper with some long shock ends in order to get the desired ratios and setup.

Best Wishes

Ryck

[terry.sc]

I think you would be better off perhaps taking an MO4 and adding the TL01B suspension should you wish to make something so wide, or jacking up a DF02/sand viper with some long shock ends in order to get the desired ratios and setup.

Quote from the first post

but I don't really like the way 2 wheel drive buggies handle.

So custom built 2wds based on a mini is kind of out of the equation.

So that leaves a choice of TL01B or DF02.

The DF-02 has the advantage of oil shocks. Out of the box the gearing of the TL01B means it's faster, but if you are looking at bigger tyres or a faster motor the DF-02 has gear ratios more suited.

[TA-Mark]

The DF01, DF02 and DF03 are all the same buggy wheelbase. The TL01b is touring car wheelbase (257mm). I can sit all 4 cars side by side and photograph if you like.

Under a Baja Beetle body in 4WD, I would use a TA02 tub with DF01 suspension arms with the TA02 Rally dampers and shock towers. Overall diameter of a buggy wheel would be too big for the arches of the Baja so the Rally block tyres or similar aftermarket Rally tyres would fit best. I have this same chassis under a 1:12 hard plastic body of unknown origin and make.

[Wrc action]

Quote from the first post

So custom built 2wds based on a mini is kind of out of the equation.

Well not entirely as

I thought about doing the ever-popular Hopper/Hornet baja, but I'm too trigger happy with 2 wheel drive buggies. Maybe the fish-tailing of 2wheel drive cars is part of the fun!

This mighty well be true with cars such as the hornet, sand viper etc where by there is a massive rearward bias on the weight distribution with much of the gearbox sitting over or behind the rear wheels in aid of traction off the line. However this puts a larger strain on lateral grip whilst cornering, leading to the point whereby under hard acceleration from the corner you can spin out.

However with an MO4L and an additional spacer the bias is much more forward for instance the gearbox is before the rear wheels as is the battery in a mid mounted position pushed relatively forward by the extra spacer by some 20mm to the conventional MO4L. As such the rear wheels are far less loaded and the car is more neutral in handling. Couple that to some larger rear tyres with shorter sidewalls such as the carson ones and you get something very akin to the bridgestone F1 setup whereby your work the tyres surface not the tyre wall and so keep lateral loads limited with a more forward weight bias, as opposed to having a rearward bias and working the tyre wall as well in order to keep the contact patch in contact as much as possible as thus increasing the load before traction is broke break.

This Bridgestone setup works the tyres more evenly putting the emphasis on both front and rear tyres to take a more even load. Unlike the michelins of 05/06 whereby if you watched F1 the bias was very rearward and the rear tyres took a lot more of the workrate shown in the switch last year to the same tyres for everyone and renault and mclarens issues with rear tyre wear from there previously rearward bias.

In addition if you look at real life 2wd desert buggies these days they are less and less tail happy with only bodywork behind the rear wheel line and a lot of the heavy fuel tanks and other items located centrally and often in part at the front of the car in order to "light" up the front tyres by mass transfer.

I accept as we all know that the 4wd will be more planted than the 2wd but its just a point that something like what I have pictured above is not going to be tail happy in the sense of the other 2wd buggies that you would have owned.

Best Wishes

Ryck

[Danbox]

You've all given me quite a bit to think about.............

Thanks for the suggestions!

[adam1973]

It's been done, a TL01b into a Beetle thing, here; http://www.scale4x4rc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8556

[irenL]

The DF01, DF02 and DF03 are all the same buggy wheelbase. The TL01b is touring car wheelbase (257mm). I can sit all 4 cars side by side and photograph if you like.

you sure?

My DF01 (mantaray) comes with 270mm wheelbase in stock guise, about 267mm wheelbase after I added the caster block from TG10. and is roughly a 273mm wheelbase if I flipped the caster block around for some negative or total of 0 caster.

[TA-Mark]

Do you have all 3 to sit side-by-side and compare and measure? I do and did. DF01 (Top Force & Blazing Star), DF02 (Rising Storm) and DF03 (Dark Impact) were all 270mm wheelbase. The TL01b (Baja King) was the same wheel base as the TA01 (Skyline) , TA02 (RS Escort) and TA03F (Subaru), 257mm, which I also own.

I also have a TA02 buggy (Unknown brand hard plastic top) with a 237mm wheelbase and the same suspension travel of a DF01, work that suspension/tub combination out. It's great on tight tracks.

0 Caster?? I must ask why?? It's one of the things that makes it turn in so well on loose surfaces.

[irenL]

Do you have all 3 to sit side-by-side and compare and measure? I do and did. DF01 (Top Force & Blazing Star), DF02 (Rising Storm) and DF03 (Dark Impact) were all 270mm wheelbase. The TL01b (Baja King) was the same wheel base as the TA01 (Skyline) , TA02 (RS Escort) and TA03F (Subaru), 257mm, which I also own.

I also have a TA02 buggy (Unknown brand hard plastic top) with a 237mm wheelbase and the same suspension travel of a DF01, work that suspension/tub combination out. It's great on tight tracks.

0 Caster?? I must ask why?? It's one of the things that makes it turn in so well on loose surfaces.

Of all the buggies, currently I only have a DF01.

I do have a TA01, 02, FF01, FF02.

Used to have a TA03F/R

and used to have a TA03RSW

0 caster, while it provides the least stability in the corner and straight line, it really works wonder to spin the the rear heavy DF01.

And actually, the Tamiya instructed that the optional caster block be installed in the direction to take away caster in the TA01/2, and in the normal direction to add caster in the FF series. I'm betting this is due to the amount of caster available from the kick-up of the mantaray's bottom gear cover is simply too much. Then again, they may have done this just to make it understeer a bit more with 1 way and torque splitter combined.

I think X-ray made an optional caster block to give their 1/8 buggy 0 caster.

[B.M.T.]

What I did, was take a Chevy S10 (TA-01.5 as I call them), swing the rear arms 180, so they angle forward, and this ends up with a 238mm WB, just right for a S/S body. One 4WD bug, hence the 4motion badge on the back (that you can't see ).

If you really want buggy width, put Mantaray, Dirt Thrasher etc arms on a TA-02. (Mine, with TG-10 long axles in the back and Hummer front hubs on TA-02 arms came to around 200 mm, close to the original).

[m.l.field]

If you really want buggy width, put Mantaray, Dirt Thrasher etc arms on a TA-02. (Mine, with TG-10 long axles in the back and Hummer front hubs on TA-02 arms came to around 200 mm, close to the original).

Which will end up something like this, which is a DF-01 Dirt Thrasher with FF-01/TA-02 chassis tub.

It's still a work in progress and only 2wd at the moment.

[Danbox]

What I did, was take a Chevy S10 (TA-01.5 as I call them), swing the rear arms 180, so they angle forward, and this ends up with a 238mm WB, just right for a S/S body. One 4WD bug, hence the 4motion badge on the back (that you can't see ).

If you really want buggy width, put Mantaray, Dirt Thrasher etc arms on a TA-02. (Mine, with TG-10 long axles in the back and Hummer front hubs on TA-02 arms came to around 200 mm, close to the original).

Man, that looks sharp!

[B.M.T.]

Thanks man.

The "Mud Bug" was a blast. It was relatively stable, and zipped around quite nicely. I may have to remake it again (was turned back into a stadium truck for a race). Though, for the extra droop the FRP chassis gave the steering, I will prolly go back to the tub this time around.

[TA-Mark]

That's great to know that the SS body is 237-238mm wheelbase. Your beetle with the CC01 tyres looks tops.

That same wheelbase can be achieved with a TA02 tub or frp plates and the DF01 suspension arms and offers the wider track (My short unknown bodied buggy). I had wondered how it would look under a SS body. Oneday...