Differences In Ta01 Vs Ta02 Suspension Arms

[TAZ-NZ]

Am I correct in thinking that suspension arms on the TA01 are shorter than those on a TA02 ? i.e. if I put TA01 suspension arms on a TA02 chassis, it will give it a narrower wheel track.

I got a custom project in mind, and the TA02 transmission & diff are perfect for my needs but I need to reduce the wheel track some, I seen it done with M03 suspension parts but that would be too narrow for my needs.

[TA-Mark]

I do believe the front susension arm are the same, unless you have the TA02W (wide) or the Hummer. The rear arm is completely different. The TA02 has the rear dogbones facing back at an angle from the outdrives of the rear diff.

If you fit TA02 rear arms to a TA01 tub, it makes a car with a 277mm wheelbase. TA01 rear arms on a TA02 tub makes a 237mm wheelbase. Width remains the same. The 20mm difference in tub length is accounted for with the rear arms on the TA02.

Cheers, Mark

[irenL]

I do believe the front susension arm are the same, unless you have the TA02W (wide) or the Hummer. The rear arm is completely different. The TA02 has the rear dogbones facing back at an angle from the outdrives of the rear diff.

If you fit TA02 rear arms to a TA01 tub, it makes a car with a 277mm wheelbase. TA01 rear arms on a TA02 tub makes a 237mm wheelbase. Width remains the same. The 20mm difference in tub length is accounted for with the rear arms on the TA02.

Cheers, Mark

ummm... the TA01 front lower arms are shorter than the TA02 front lower arms.

The TA01, based heavily on the DF01, uses a lot of DF01 parts, including the red steering knuckles. thus the shorter suspension arms to bring it to 185mm width. In this setup, the TA01 uses 39mm front dog bones.

then Tamiya introduces the skyline long front arms kit, since the 01 understeers too much. The kit consist of longer arms, and shorter blue steering knuckles. This kit uses 42mm dog bones, and widen up the front end a bit. It buys a bit more front end grip.

the skyline long front arm kit later made it stock into the TA02, combined with the shorter tub to move the battery weight further to the middle, this realizes a more neutral car, but still quite far from ideal, due to the steep angle of the rear dog bones (02 rear arms sweep very far to the back).

[B.M.T.]

The TA02W has normal TA02 arms. It just uses TA01 stub axles and bearing carriers in conjunction with the longer TA02 arms.

That's the deal... TA02 and 01 are the same track. The 02 uses shorter axles and narrower steering knuckles and longer driveshafts (all in the front, mind you) to keep the track width the same, but benefit from longer arms. By combing 02 suspension, with 01 steering knuckles and axles, you can add 10 mm to the track width... Hence the 02W.

So, in reverse a 01 with 02 axles and steering knuckles would be 10mm narrower.

[TAZ-NZ]

The TA02W has normal TA02 arms. It just uses TA01 stub axles and bearing carriers in conjunction with the longer TA02 arms.

That's the deal... TA02 and 01 are the same track. The 02 uses shorter axles and narrower steering knuckles and longer driveshafts (all in the front, mind you) to keep the track width the same, but benefit from longer arms. By combing 02 suspension, with 01 steering knuckles and axles, you can add 10 mm to the track width... Hence the 02W.

So, in reverse a 01 with 02 axles and steering knuckles would be 10mm narrower.

Argh!

So I can make the front narrower, but the back will stay the same. And it still short of my goal which is about 160-165mm wheel track, well atleast I think it is, I'm aiming for the same wheel track as the Wild Willy 2 (WR-02) chassis, wheelbase is not important, I'm tossing the chassis anyway, I'll be making a custom chassis along the lines of carbon fiber FRP chassis for the TA02.

I think now I need more information, If anyone can tell me the distance from axel pin to axel pin on the following chassis it would be great.

WR-02 (Wild Willy 2) most important because this is what I'm aiming for.

TA02

M03

If I'm right the rear suspension aims on the Wild Willy 2 should bolt straight onto the TA02 Transmission & rear diff and give the same rear wheel track, but I believe the WR-02 front lower aims attachment point is wider than than on the TA02 front Diff. so need either go getto and use a spacer, or find a different front suspension arm that will fit the TA02 front diff and will give me the same Wheel track as the WR-02.

any help advice would be great.

[irenL]

if the WR02 arms are the same as tl01 arms, then it'll fit the 02 after slight hand-fitting.

[B.M.T.]

Sorry, I mean TA-01.

TL-01 front bulkheads have a double length "tab" that the arm hinges on, and TA front arms won't go on, unless you remove material from the chassis.

[TAZ-NZ]

if the WR02 arms are the same as tl01 arms, then it'll fit the 02 after slight hand-fitting.

Cool thanks, I would have had to research that one, no cross reference on the C-parts for the WR-02 parts info, but your right they both use tamiya part code 50737.

Sorry, I mean TA-01.

TL-01 front bulkheads have a double length "tab" that the arm hinges on, and TA front arms won't go on, unless you remove material from the chassis.

So what your saying confirms what I was thinking, the TL01 rear suspension arms on the TA02 transmission/Rear diff is no issue, but the mounting tabs on the TA02 front Diff are too short for the TL01 front arms. So I'd need to extend the tabs forwards somehow or add a spacer to hinge pins to take up the slack between the mounting tabs and the lower suspension arms.

Now I really need those chassis measurements, just to confirm that there is no combo of TA02 and TA01 front suspension parts that will give me the required wheel track. There are still wild cards out there like the m1025 Hummer which uses it's own suspension parts tree 0005576 yet it's still a TA01 chassis, the hummer front arms look like they could possibly be what I'm looking for.

Edit:

Had a hard look at the Hummer front suspension arms, they're too long for my needs but because they're similar in design to the TL01 items, there is the possibility of make a hybrid arm keeping one side of the TL01 arm untouched, and make the other side half out of the the TL01 item and half out of the Hummer item, a bit of cutting sum glue and the stock screws to hold it all together.

[terry.sc]

For all the differences

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.a...83&sid=2193

The Wild Willy2 just uses the complete standard TL-01 touring car suspension, so fitting it you will end up with the same width as using the original TA-02 suspension. Seems like you are using a lot of effort to end up back where you started.

If you want to narrow the suspension then you need mini suspension arms, the minis are about 170mm wide.

[TAZ-NZ]

For all the differences

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.a...83&sid=2193

The Wild Willy2 just uses the complete standard TL-01 touring car suspension, so fitting it you will end up with the same width as using the original TA-02 suspension. Seems like you are using a lot of effort to end up back where you started.

If you want to narrow the suspension then you need mini suspension arms, the minis are about 170mm wide.

Thanks for the link, I could have done with it a day or two ago would have saved me a lot of time running around in circles.

Now i don't want to question your knowledge, as your showroom clear show you a have good work knowledge of a large range of Tamiya cars, but are you sure the TL01 Suspension arms are the same lenght as those of the TA02, I don't have any of the kits I'm trying to peice together otherwise I would have solved this days ago though trial and error, but everything I've seen in the instruction manual for these kits lets me that the TA02 arms are longer than the TL01 arms.

To show what I mean, see the attached image, I realise that not everything on one page of a tamiya manual is in scale with every other part on that page, but all the parts in one section of a page are always in scale to my knowledge, so a quickly scaled the parts trees of the TL01 & hummer (TA02) suspension trees to matching scale.

If you look at the image you can see according to the manuals that the TA02 arms are longer than the TL01 arms, infact the TA02 front arms are the same length as the TL01 rear arms. If I wrong please correct me, if any has a picture of a TL01 front arm next to a TA02 front arm I'd love to see it at this point.

Anyone I tell you what I'm trying to do and maybe that will cut down on the confusion a little.

I'm trying to build a 4WD Willy's Wheeler, after see a couple of Wide Willy 2 to Willy Wheeler conversions, and reading this document Wheeler.doc on how it was done, the idea that they were using 4WD axles & wheels for a 2WD conversion sparked an idea that it could be possible to build a 4WD conversion. I'd seen a few custom setups using TA02 chassis, so I new that was a good place to start, and where I tripped over Hondabiker's customTA02/M03 hybrid chassis I knew I way onto something.

On there way I have a:

- Willy's Wheeler Bodyset

- Voltec Fighter kit for the wheels

There's a TA01 Hummer chassis up on ebay I'll see if can pickup for the transmission and front diff. (Be nice to have black items rather than red).

The TL01 parts I need I'll pick up new, from either a ebay store or tower hobbies, once I work out what I need.

1x B parts

2x C parts

4x dog bones

4x TG10 axles.

I need to grab a full set of bearings too.

[B.M.T.]

I see.... From that image, indeed, Hummer arms are longer than TL01, but Hummer are longer than TA-02, too.

I'll photograph TA02 and TL01 for you, I have both reasonably handy.

Watch this space....

[rajicon]

Hahaha, I remember that wheeler doc.

If your going through the trouble of making a custom chassis and centre shaft for the TA01, then why not start with a TL01 instead?? There have been a few cut down TL01s around. Make new chassis plates (left and right instead of top and lower) and grind the centre shaft down (plus redrill the hole for the pin).

Heres a few measurements of the WW2 that might be of interest,

Front:

lower kingpin (in c hub) to lower kingpin 120mm

NB, WW2 has one assembly that locks into place where TL01 steering knuckle would be. This measurement is from where the TL01 knuckle would be.

Rear:

lower screw pin (outer lower arm/rear upright) to screw pin

117mm

Both ends:

inner screwpin/u shaped pin,

41mm

These are all taken with a tape measure as my calipers are packed away.

So if the chassis being used is same as these measurements, then using TL01/WW2 parts(as noted in wheeler doc) and the TG10 alxes and B14 hexes it should all work out the right width. Not forgetting the the extra width needed for the wider Wheeler body comes from the rims large offset.

The M03 has the same mesurements for the inner screwpin/u shaped bolt.

That said, then any touring car which the rims wont rub, should be usable shouldnt it ?????

I have made a custom fibreglass monocoque chassis for a WW2 which I need to assemble. Ive had people staying so everything has been in storage. I hope to finish it in the next few weeks.

[irenL]

the TA02 front arms are indeed longer than the TL01 front arms.

the TA02 front arm sample that I have in front of me measures 33.95mm from inner pin to outer pin.

the TL01 front arm in front of me shows that the same measurement is 28.11mm.

The difference is due to the shorter steering knuckles used in the TA02.

However, the width of both cars are still the same.

Remember, the TL01 front knuckles have to be longer because the same part is used for the M03 and M04 as well, with their smaller rims.

You can't fit Mini rims to TA02 without additional wheel spacers.

All measurements taken with a digi-caliper.

rear arms of TA01 and TA02 are the same width, pin to pin, however, the angle of the arms are very different indeed.

[B.M.T.]

Does this mean I don't need to pull my cars apart for photos?.

Makes sense that the TL and TA01 arms be the same length. They have the same diffs and joint cups, same dog bones, so they'd have to be the same distance form king pin to king pin, or there would be bulk binding when the suspension moved.

How ever, as mentioned before, TL and TA are vastly different (at the front atleast) in depth, where they hinge on the chassis.

[irenL]

Does this mean I don't need to pull my cars apart for photos?.

sorry to kill your fun...

How ever, as mentioned before, TL and TA are vastly different (at the front atleast) in depth, where they hinge on the chassis.

the width between both front inner hinge pins on both TL and TA are the same... 41 point something mm, so the U shaped shaft are the same for both series.

I don't have a TL any longer, however I still have an FF02.

Taz,

may I know what kind of project you're thinking of actually? There may be other platforms you can use instead....

[B.M.T.]

the width between both front inner hinge pins on both TL and TA are the same... 41 point something mm, so the U shaped shaft are the same for both series.

Soz, what I mean is that the gap between the inner mounting ears of the arms... and the thickness of the lug on the chassis the pin/U-shaft feeds through.

The TA series are half the depth of the rear, at the front. The TL/M03+/FF02/Dagger is the same front and rear, meaning, you can put TL01 front arms on the rear of the chassis, you can't with a TA without serious hackage.

[TA-Mark]

then Tamiya introduces the skyline long front arms kit, since the 01 understeers too much. The kit consist of longer arms, and shorter blue steering knuckles. This kit uses 42mm dog bones, and widen up the front end a bit.

Well that explains my TA01 chassis, it has the blue knuckles and lower arm appeared to be identical to the 2 TA02 chassis I own. I have no idea what kit the TA01 was as I only recieved a partial chassis in a box of parts. Identified it by the rear lower arms.

Mark.

[redzone]

someone must have upgraded it with the skyline LFA kit i suppose...

[terry.sc]

but are you sure the TL01 Suspension arms are the same lenght as those of the TA02,

No, as others have pointed out they are different lengths, but unless you are going to make your own driveshafts to fit you will end up using the same uprights that go with the arms and end up at the same overall width.

If you look at the image you can see according to the manuals that the TA02 arms are longer than the TL01 arms, in fact the TA02 front arms are the same length as the TL01 rear arms.

Fitting TA01 front arms with TA02 front uprights will narrow the width, but there isn't a driveshaft that will fit unless you cut one to length and braze it back together.

As you are trying to put together a 4wd Wilys Wheeler then the obvious choice is a TL01 chassis. It uses the same suspension as the Wild Willy 2 (and therefore Wheeler2) and the TG10 axles and hexes are designed to make the car wider, not narrower. It sounds like you'll be surprised how big the Wheeler body actually is.

To shorten a TA01/02 is not possible by cutting the chassis tub, you would have to make up a double deck chassis, then you would also need to sort out a steering setup as the kit parts would need to be raised on pillars you would have to either fabricate or find the FRP chassis set. You would also have to sort out a battery holder and fabricate a new propshaft to fit the drive joints.

To shorten a TL01 you just cut however much you want to remove from the chassis between the motor and battery, then join the two halves using any flat plate to bolt through the pieces. The propshaft just needs cutting and a flat filing on the end.

[TAZ-NZ]

Just think out loud here, but I think I've got it.

The TA02W has normal TA02 arms. It just uses TA01 stub axles and bearing carriers in conjunction with the longer TA02 arms.

That's the deal... TA02 and 01 are the same track. The 02 uses shorter axles and narrower steering knuckles and longer driveshafts (all in the front, mind you) to keep the track width the same, but benefit from longer arms. By combing 02 suspension, with 01 steering knuckles and axles, you can add 10 mm to the track width... Hence the 02W.

So, in reverse a 01 with 02 axles and steering knuckles would be 10mm narrower.

So that means the TA01 front suspension arms are about 5mm shorter then the TA02 front suspension arms.

the TA02 front arms are indeed longer than the TL01 front arms.

the TA02 front arm sample that I have in front of me measures 33.95mm from inner pin to outer pin.

the TL01 front arm in front of me shows that the same measurement is 28.11mm.

Ok if the TA02 front suspension arms are ~34mm and the TA01 front suspension arms are about 5mm shorter, then that make them about 28-29mm, which means the TA01 front arms are the basically the same lenght as the TL01 Front arms at ~28mm

sorry to kill your fun...

the width between both front inner hinge pins on both TL and TA are the same... 41 point something mm, so the U shaped shaft are the same for both series.

I don't have a TL any longer, however I still have an FF02.

Taz,

may I know what kind of project you're thinking of actually? There may be other platforms you can use instead....

So in theory if I use TA01 upper & lower front suspension arms with TL01 steering knuckles on the TA01 front diff. And mount the TL01 rear suspension setup on the TA01 transmission on the rear, I should end up with the same wheel track as the TL01/WR02 chassis which I'm after.

I think this will work, I'm going to need a lot of parts trees, five atleast just for the suspension arms.

Couple more question the WR02 (wild willy 2) rear stub axles are TG10 items correct ? just trying to work out if I need different stub axles for the front and rear for the conversion.

Am I correct in thinking I'll need 39mm dog bones on the front ant 43mm dog bones on the back with this setup or are the rear dog bones on the WR02 39mm items ?

[irenL]

Just think out loud here, but I think I've got it.

So that means the TA01 front suspension arms are about 5mm shorter then the TA02 front suspension arms.

Ok if the TA02 front suspension arms are ~34mm and the TA01 front suspension arms are about 5mm shorter, then that make them about 28-29mm, which means the TA01 front arms are the basically the same lenght as the TL01 Front arms at ~28mm

So in theory if I use TA01 upper & lower front suspension arms with TL01 steering knuckles on the TA01 front diff. And mount the TL01 rear suspension setup on the TA01 transmission on the rear, I should end up with the same wheel track as the TL01/WR02 chassis which I'm after.

I think this will work, I'm going to need a lot of parts trees, five atleast just for the suspension arms.

Couple more question the WR02 (wild willy 2) rear stub axles are TG10 items correct ? just trying to work out if I need different stub axles for the front and rear for the conversion.

Am I correct in thinking I'll need 39mm dog bones on the front ant 43mm dog bones on the back with this setup or are the rear dog bones on the WR02 39mm items ?

the wheel track you'll end up with would be 185mm at 0 offset, front and rear. you'll be using 39mm dogbones all around.

as a bonus, here's a picture of ta02 knuckles v ta01 knuckles

[TAZ-NZ]

Ok, after going back over a dozen different tamiya manuals, carefully re-reading the Wheeler.doc file, and all the posts in this thread, and cross refrencing it all, I've got a final version to my plan.

I must have had blinders on when I first read some of the post because I total missed what some people were saying, B.M.T. in particular it seams, but other too, on re-reading I gained alot more insite than I did the first time around.

First thing I noticed is that in the WR-02 (Wide Willy 2) to Willy's Wheeler conversion, they moved the TG10 long stub axles (50808) & hexs to the front and replaced them with TG10 short axles (50823) at the rear, this effectively widens the front wheel track and narrowed rear wheel track by the same amount. Now as the TG10 long axles add about 8mm to the wheel track, effectively the Willy's Wheeler conversion has the same front wheel track as a TA02W chassis and the rear wheel track is the same as the TL01.

So that means instead of using TA01 front suspension arms to get the same front wheel track as the TL01 and then widening it by using the long TG10 axles, I can in thoery use the longer TA02 front suspension arms (50649) and 42mm dog bones with the TL01 steering knuckles & TG10 short stub axles (50823) to obtain the same front wheel track as the Will's Wheeler conversion, and this now what I plan to do.

So it will have:

TA01 Transmission & Front diff. (From a M1024 Hummer)

TA02 Front suspension arms & front dog bones.

TL01 Steering knuckles.

TL01 Full rear suspension setup & dog bones,

TG10 short stub axles all round.

Voltec Fighter 29/75mm wheels on the front.

Voltec Fighter 42/75mm wheels on the rear.

Custom TA02 FRP style double deck chassis (very short, servo will be mounted on top plate over battery in theory.)

Modified TA02 rear anti-sway bar or TA02/TL01 hybrid rear anti-sway bar.

Willy's Wheeler body (Paint colour to still be decided)

Body & battery mounts - still to be determined.

Motor - still to be determined.

Battery Team Orion Carbon Edition 3600mah 7.4V 2 cell LiPo (got to save some weight somewhere)

Aluminium touring car shocks and other preformance parts will follow once basic concept is proven.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

Now does anyone know what the fastest motor I'll get away with in a TA02 chassis ? I would prefer to go brushless if I can or is that out of the question? I'm open to suggestions.

I've order all the parts other than the battery, but they are coming from all over the world so it will be a couple of weeks before I have everything.

[B.M.T.]

I watched a vid of two TA-02's with Capri bodies dragging today, on TC, one was using a 9 turn...

BUT, from doing a lot of Oh-two'ing in the 90's, I would not recommend much more than a Sports Tuned without the metal motor mount, or you'll be destroying spur gears. Also, how much do you value your Wheeler body?. That's going to be quite top heavy and short... Watch the vid someone posted here in the forum of the real things racing... LOL

In saying that, best of luck, and post a build thread!!!.