How Are Things Going On Ebay?

[dinodog 0]

Hi Guys, it's been a few weeks now that the new "one way" ebay feedback rules have been in place... has anyone anything to report?

My wife is, or rather was, an occasional seller of antiques and collectables as a hobby, but she has stopped trawling the car boots and auction rooms and prefers to sing karaoke on singsnap instead... well I never thought I would see that as she really loved dabbling on the bay, the new FB rules have really put her off.

I guess lots of part time or hobby sellers have stopped trading because of the new FB rules, do you think that this was ebay's intention trying to make ebay more like amazon?

I have bought a few new RC related items recently and got the brand new message that if I wasn't at all happy I could leave a negative without one being given in return.

Well I suppose that's a good thing as all I do is bid and pay... but then I'm not out to get something for nothing.

Do traders still argue over refunding postage if an item doesn't arrive, or arrives damaged or not as described?

One thing I hate are traders who insist that their "I do not refund postage" policy overides my genuine rights as a honest buyer.

And as for offers of "helping me with my post office claim" for their lost item, well that's just adding insult to injury.

If the new FB rules have stopped that nonsense then maybe the rules are the way to go...

Happy trails!

[TA-Mark 195]

The new rule of seller not being able to leave feedback is good and is exactly what I suggested to them after I recieved a retalatory feedback. Once the buyer has paid for the item he has done his bit, so a positive should be automatic. Only reasons for a buyer to recieve negative feedback is if they are rude or fail to pay.

I purchased a 'new' PC ready built and when it arrived and I powered it up I found it overclocked 150% and erroring as you would expect. I left the seller a neutral for screwing up, he returned the favour. Is it fair that my score goes backwards (97.2% after purchase) when all I did was buy someone's stuff up? I'd paid him within 10 minutes of the end of the auction. What other feedback option did I have... Leave him positive feedback for a job messed up?

What is not right with the new rules is a neutral feedback being equal to negative in feedback score.

Sales / (Sales + Neutrals + Negatives) = Feedback score.

A neutral should be no score up or down, a stalemated transaction, as if the sale had never happened. It is not like this now and if you recieve a neutral your score will look like you have recieved a negative. If you want to leave a true neutral feedback with the current system DO NOT leave any feedback at all.

What is hurting eBay is the paypal only rule... then up the paypal charges...

Direct bank deposit worked so much better for me in domestic transactions. Paypal takes me 5 days for payment to go through, Bank transfer is instant or 24hrs to a different bank.

Paypal is only instant if you spend someone else's money (credit card). When it's tied to a bank account and you are spending your own money the echeque takes 5 days (or longer) to clear.

There has been a slight loss of logic at ebay management over the last few months.

[run_for_it_scooby 0]

The new Paypal only applies to ebay Australia. As a seller its going to be interesting to see how sales go when they bring it in. Ebay are probably trialling it to see the results and may look to expand to other countries. Pity Australians are the guinea pigs. As far as the new feedback, I lost my 100% from a neutral back in Nov, which sucks coz he didnt read my ad properly and before the new system nuetrals didnt affect your rating. Saying that, my rating will be restored once a year passes since receiving that nuetral.

[RCH_Blackfoot 0]

I sell more then I buy and the new feedback rules are very hurtful to us sellers. I have had 3 members now bid up my items and not pay, what can I do but file a nonpaying bidder claim and hope eBay refunds my fees, then block the bidder and place their name as a warning in my listings. The clowns will now roam free to do as they wish.

One instance. I had 134 transactions and never so much as a issue. I offer worldwide shipping, as everyone deserves the right to have my custom made Scale Accessories. I sold my Wheely King Crawler to a guy in Spain who nailed the Buy It Now button while I was sleeping. This clown completely disobeyed my listing rules of atleast having 10 feedback. He paid instantly, so I figured what the heck, he is OK. This has turned out to be a nightmare. He can speak NO ENGLISH at all and uses a translator that completely jumbles up the sentence wording, making it dang near impossible to read without getting a migraine. Yoda Im not and riddles backwards I speak not, lol. I sent to his PayPal and eBay supplied address, Scaned a copy of the customs form, as I do with all of my internation sales, and told him it was on its way. From the 3rd day after shipping out, this guy has sent me illegable messages about how he will be out of town, to where is my package, etc....

Next thing I know is I have a negative feedback from this fool. I translated it and it said he wanted repaid or he will denounce me. I ran the Customs Trackin form number and they attempted delivery on 2 different occasions. I told him to call his customs and go pick up his package. He comes back with another reply demanding a refund. This was 4 days ago and it is still waiting for him to pick it up. I contacted eBay about the unjustifide feedback, sent them a copy of the scan and a copy of the USPS tracking results, I asked for the feedback to be removed. They came back with a reply saying my case does not fall into the "Policy Guidlines" for feedback removal. WHAT THE HECK!!! I amd honest about everything and this guy is a lazy REMOVED and I get punished? So now I have a bad feedback and a 97.7. rating because of this idiot! and all I can do is either leave positive feedback or none at all. He sure isnt getting a positive from me, so he gets none.

The other instance. I sold a set of my Scale Bungees to a buyer in France. I scanned the customs form as always. 2 weeks later, He never contacted me, just filed a PayPal dispute. I contacted him and I decided wasnt going to refund his money, I would just send him another set, he agreed and said he would end the dispute the day they arrived. I check the original Customs number and it was not on file, so maybe his guy was honest about not getting them. I made a new set, scanned the package lables to him and the customs form, again as usual and posted the links in the dispute notes for him and PayPal to view. On 6-8-2008 eBay terminated his account for fraud and that had me worried. This clown never would reply to my several attempts of contact or to any of the notes in the paypal dispute. Well, 3 days ago PayPal ended the dispute in his favor and refunded this guy his money, even though I posted proof. $9.50 stollen from my acct. 3 Day ago I was fuming mad when I discovered the money was refunded and I had 2 sets of Bungees on the way to him. I called eBay that morning and they said the numbers were not valid tracking numbers and I was out of luck. Boy am I steaming now, Im out 2 sets along with the $9.50. I did a check on the original customs number and gee, what do I see, but it was delivered 6-9-08 at 12:04pm, but did this clown end the dispute? NO! Then I checked the number for the replacment set and it was delivered the exact same time. Now this jerk has 2 sets and his money back, just as I suspected, I was scammed for a measly $19.00. Its not the money, its the principle and the fact that I put alot of work into these Bungees, it takes me 30 minutes to make a set. So I called them back and WOW, were they more willing to talk to me when I gave them proof and said give me the full $19.00 or Im closing my account. They did some checking and said I will have the money back in 3-5 days and his account will be terminated.

The eBay feedback rules are horrable all the way around, especially for us honest sellers, it allows the scammers to run rampant without fear of the retaliation of getting their well deserved Negative Feedbacks!

[Tamiya1/10 382]

I am not a regular ebay seller, but recently I did sold some of my RC kits on ebay and (knock on wood for my future selling) so far I had no problems with any of my buyers. I photograph the entire packing process and keep all the post office reciepts just incase anything should happen to the package I can proof I did my part and paypal will not rip the money back out from my account.

Less than 100% positive feedback sellers or buyers don't worry me as I will look into the reason for the -ive feedback and I know there are unreasonable buyers and sellers out there and they will use -ive feedback inorder to get their way.

ebay has its good and bad points and I don't think TC will be where it is today without ebay as most of us wouldn't be able to buy a Mounty from the States or sell a fully hoped up M0-2 plus a new spare body for US$55.00...to a buyer in Brazil ; seller

[m.l.field 0]

The eBay feedback rules are horrable all the way around, especially for us honest sellers, it allows the scammers and REMOVEDs to run rampant without fear of the retaliation of getting their well deserved Negative Feedbacks!

Agree 100%. The new rules are a mess, and with the way the DSRs are being calculated anybody that sells low volumes needs to be very careful as a neg or a couple of neutrals could see you suspended even if they are the first you've received out of several hundred transactions.

If you want to see how close you are to restriction of your account http://auctiontrax.com/sellerratings/snpcalc.html

The Australians here might want to look at http://www.tamebay.com/2008/06/paypal-only...aft-ruling.html

[OCD 514]

If you haven't already heard:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/biztech/accc-th...2863822348.html

Although I believe this ^^^ is a positive thing for eBay users, (sellers and buyers alike) it is most likely that eBay will find a way to make PayPal mandatory anyhow. It's already begun in the United States: As of July 9 US sellers will be REQUIRED to accept PayPal for all UK transactions. (For those of you who weren't aware, international PP transactions are not covered under the seller protection plan, therefore requiring sellers to essentially accept a less than safe payment from abroad.)

The real question here is: Are these changes designed to help the users successfully use the website, or are they simply to increase eBay bottom line and please shareholders? EBay insists that PayPal is being required because it is the safest form of payment... Tell me, if this guy doesn't think it's safe, would you??

-S

[OCD 514]

LOL -- Matthew beat me to the Tamebay story!

Anyone who is enamored with Paypal should definitely check out the Frerk-Malte Feller story -- it's a real eye opener...

[4wdmt 2]

I seldom sell on ebay. Just when I need to dispose some of my electronics or RC stuff. But with this new rules showing up lately, it just made me decide not to sell anymore. There will be good and reasonable buyers and there will be buyers who will complain just for the sake of complaining ang getting something back in return. As a buyer I like the idea, cause I always pay immediately, but can't give a honest feedback just because of retaliatory fb. Sellers know that if you have 100% fb standing, you don't want to mess it up as much as possible.

One thing is for sure. I see that there are less stuff being sold lately (RC related).

[ChrisB 0]

I'm an occasional seller (maybe one or two items a month, almost exclusively gadgets or stuff I no longer need or use), but haven't sold anything since the new rules come in. Getting to the stage now though where I need to try and get some cash for a bunch of stuff that has been upgraded / superceded.

I think I'll just try and reduce the risk of dodgy buyers by not using a BIN, putting conservative feedback/strike bidder restrictions on my auctions and only shipping using trackable methods to UK buyers. It will no doubt cut down on bidders and what I get for items, plus I am sure epay and paypal charges will be higher than last time I listed, but what else are you going to do? Fact is there is very little alternative that gets the coverage / interest that ebay does as a seller.

Glad to see the aussies stood up to the paypal only BS from ebay, although I am sure they will just sting sellers another way to make up the lost revenue.

Chris

[Backlash 481]

I am an Aussie eBay buyer, I have never sold anything on eBay, nor do I intend to, but I can see the sellers point of view..

On the Feedback issue, I feel that stopping sellers leaving negative feedback fullstop is pretty rough. I do also accept that the seller is also only "grading" the buyer on how polite and easy to get along with they are, and also how fast they pay.. One solution would be to allow the seller to leave neg feedback only under certain circumstances, such as NPB. Another option would be to put a "cutout" on the feedback for sellers, whereas the seller can only leave negative feedback if he does so before the buyer. (after all, the buyers part of the deal is completed before the sellers sends out the items and way before the buyer will leave feedback).

On the Paypal issue, I feel that the best thing that could be done here is to keep all of the existing payment methods, but make it mandatory for sellers to have Paypal as a payment option.. eBay and Paypal "claim" that they are doing this to protect buyers (and sellers), but they have eliminated what I would consider to be the safest method of payment within Australia, COD via Aust post. Basically, you dont pay for the item until you pick it up at your local PO. I have used this service many times, especially with new eBay sellers and expensive items..

Cheers.

[WillyChang 1814]

Any NPB approved should automatically 1) -ve feedback against buyer and 2) add that buyer to seller's ban list.

But what does fleabay know about good customer service anyway.

[WillyChang 1814]

... what I would consider to be the safest method of payment within Australia, COD via Aust post. Basically, you dont pay for the item until you pick it up at your local PO. I have used this service many times, especially with new eBay sellers and expensive items..

COD is not safe for sellers... it can still disappear in transit or worse - buyer refuses to pickup then the PO loses it;

or if its returned you pay twice postage + COD fee to accept it back.

As a seller it is not worth my risk to use COD.

If you're forever a 100% BUYER ONLY, what are you complaining about anyway!?

It is time for a fleabay competitor to startup.

Not sure if TradingPost/Sensis initiatiave will be any good but worth watching.

YAHOO where are you??

[iJays 0]

i am both a seller and a buyer at ebay.

i like the new feedback system because as a buyer, i can now leave a more 'realistic' feedback without the fear of retaliation.

as a seller, what would i fear when i do sell honestly at ebay?

[OCD 514]

"YAHOO where are you??"

lol -- Certainly in no position to get into the auction venue biz: Google Deal Puts Yahoo! in a Bind With Investors

My bet is the eBay shareholders will have a wholesale clear-out of management before this is all over, and the eBay 'name' will survive.

-S

[OCD 514]

i am both a seller and a buyer at ebay.

i like the new feedback system because as a buyer, i can now leave a more 'realistic' feedback without the fear of retaliation.

as a seller, what would i fear when i do sell honestly at ebay?

iJays, since you say that you are also a seller, let me ask you something -

Let's say a buyer sees your item for sale on eBay, reads the auction terms, bids accordingly, wins the auction, pays, and then upon receiving the item realizes that that it wasn't at all the quality he had expected. Then, without bothering to contact you about his issue, proceeds to leave you a neutral FB. Of course neutrals count as negs now, so your new 'monthly averaged' feedback score as a seller will be severely compromised, which means that you are no longer eligible for a decent standing in the new 'Best Match' search return. ( Get just a couple strikes like this and you'll be facing a frozen PayPal account! )

Does this make you a dishonest seller? Of course not.

Does this mean that the buyer is somehow dishonest? Well, not exactly.

You see, the buyer has been mislead into believing that feedback is the best way to get resolution in nearly every situation, which couldn't be further from the truth. Resolution in disputes comes from COMMUNICATION. If anyone is guilty of dishonestly here, eBay is simply because they don't make enough effort to get people to work things out in a civilized manner. Instead what they do is implement a system of anonymous 'stars' that obscure the 'realistic' feedback that customers leave for their sellers.

Guess that was more of a rhetorical question, but I think one can comprehend what I'm saying here. eBay has pitted the sellers against the buyers, and forgot that people like yourself, as with many of us here, are both the buyer and the seller.

-S

[dinodog 0]

Love it, couldn't agree more. The perceived insecurity of being left defenceless regarding hassle with disatisfied customers for whatever reason honest or not, has spoilt it for a lot of part time sellers. I mean why bother...

Selling old collectables or antiques is like selling used RC items in that they both call for a lot of honest description but even that sometimes can't please everybody... one man's nackered old travel chest is another man's nackered old travel chest he will be returning at your expense... or else.

Well at least my wife is enjoying her new karaoke singing career on Singsnap!

I think I'll join her... http://www.singsnap.com/snap/watchAndListen/play/b4e9537a this certainly takes my mind off ebay!

[iJays 0]

so there is really no way the seller can leave a negative feedback to the buyer?

[RCH_Blackfoot 0]

i am both a seller and a buyer at ebay.

i like the new feedback system because as a buyer, i can now leave a more 'realistic' feedback without the fear of retaliation.

as a seller, what would i fear when i do sell honestly at ebay?

Read my post and you will understand why this new feedback system sucks.

[iJays 0]

Read my post and you will understand why this new feedback system sucks.

some sellers may have a bad experience with the system but that does not mean the whole system does not work.

even if you give the buyer a million negative feedback, it won't stop him from registering another account or hitting the next buy-it-now option.

sellers should also understand that you got the buyer's money and the buyer expect his money's worth or at least deliver the item after the buyer parted with his money first.

it might work differently if the seller has to send his item first before the buyer pays, seller won't like that, or would they?

i sell items at ebay and for expensive things, i require cash on collection.

paypal is not seller-friendly.

[RCH_Blackfoot 0]

some sellers may have a bad experience with the system but that does not mean the whole system does not work.

even if you give the buyer a million negative feedback, it won't stop him from registering another account or hitting the next buy-it-now option.

sellers should also understand that you got the buyer's money and the buyer expect his money's worth or at least deliver the item after the buyer parted with his money first.

it might work differently if the seller has to send his item first before the buyer pays, seller won't like that, or would they?

i sell items at ebay and for expensive things, i require cash on collection.

paypal is not seller-friendly.

Point is, you can't please everyone all the time. As grandma always said, no good deed will go unpunished. I am a very honest seller, I even will go the extra mile to make sure that my customers are happy, as I stand behind my custom made products 100%, contact me with any problems and i will make it right. But there are still dificult buyers who think the "Leave Neagtive Feedback" option is the way to resolve a problem. With my case, the buyer is too lazy to contact customs to collect their item after 2 attempted deliveries and blames me, even after I provided him proof that it is his resopncibility to contact his customs office and either setup a delivery time or to go pick it up. He is in Spain, I am in New Yourk State, I cannot babysit or personally hand deliver the package and that seems to be what this guy wants.

COD, no thanks! I do not trust the postal system that much and if its not accepted or undeliverable or even not accepted, then I have to pay for shipping it both ways. If a buyer bids my items up and then backs out or doesnt pay. I have every right and desire to leave this clown negative feedback, to warn other sellers of his/her possible intentions. But that is no longer an option, the bad buyers are now free to run amuck and do as they please without any fear.

Its simple logic. eBay wants the buyers to feel free to bid away with out fear. Causing our fees to jump and them to collect even more off us sellers. They are being greedy and no longer care for the people who pay their sallary, Me and the rest of us sellers. Buyers have nothing to complain about, they are not affected and only benifit from this. They will soon learn when the hobby seller stops selling and the carrier selers start loosing money and then close up shop. They are ruining a good thing and doining it all out of greed.

[ChrisB 0]

I think as a seller it can be difficult to understand why sellers don't like the new setup..... until a dodgy buyer bids on one of your auctions.

After many years of occasional selling, this happened to me about a month or so ago. Classic example - high value item (mobile phone), buyer used BIN on the auction, had zero feedback, registered with ebay the same day, unconfirmed delivery address was some student halls of residence - it just rang all the alarm bells. I refunded the Paypal payment and lodged a dispute with ebay claiming buyer supplied an unconfirmed address and had not complied with auction rules (namely all bidders with less than 5 feedback must contact me first before bidding).

I didn't get negged by the buyer, in fact despite trying several times I received no answer to my ebay messages or emails from the buyer. To me this confirms I did the right thing. Problem is how to warn other sellers about this buyer? Technically he didn't break any ebay rules, but none the less as a seller I had no way of protecting myself and had to relist the item, wasting more of my time and money. This experience alone has meant I no longer offer BINs on auctions - its not possible to weed out suspect buyers easily with BINs.

I think as someone else said further up in this thread - even if eBay make a dogs dinner of this,(which they seem intent on doing as their bottom line doesn't seem to be improving), someone can always step in and take over. The brand alone is worth a fortune, regardless of their current management/strategy. Maybe Google are just waiting for the share price to drop low enough that they can grab a bargain . I can see it now - eBay, powered by Google..... they could add Google checkout as a payment method and replace the rather rubbish eBay search setup. Plus Google already offer online tools for building sites which could be easily adapted to offer ebay stores to the likes of power sellers. Targetted dvertising revenue alone for Google on a site like eBay could probably pay for the eBay running costs and more

[iJays 0]

COD, no thanks! I do not trust the postal system that much and if its not accepted or undeliverable or even not accepted, then I have to pay for shipping it both ways. If a buyer bids my items up and then backs out or doesnt pay. I have every right and desire to leave this clown negative feedback, to warn other sellers of his/her possible intentions. But that is no longer an option, the bad buyers are now free to run amuck and do as they please without any fear.

COD is totally different from cash on collection.

the buyer collects the item and pays cash.

[terry.sc 16]

sellers should also understand that you got the buyer's money and the buyer expect his money's worth or at least deliver the item after the buyer parted with his money first.

Try this popular scam then. Buyer wins an auction, pays with Paypal. Seller posts the goods to the seller. The seller receives the parcel, then claims that the goods never arrived. Paypal immediately refunds the payment to the buyer by taking the money from the sellers account. The seller now has no money and no goods and the seller now has to either try and claim the value of the goods from the postal service or take the hit.

It's why more sellers are only sending using trackable postal services, so they have some evidence to prove it has been delivered for the paypal claim. Even that has a loophole, if the goods are delivered and signed for by someone other than the buyer the buyer can still claim they never got the goods so Paypal refunds them, and the postal service won't pay out on an insurance claim from the seller as it was delivered.

[Hibernaculum 933]

It is time for a fleabay competitor to startup.

Not sure if TradingPost/Sensis initiatiave will be any good but worth watching.

YAHOO where are you??

Totally agree. Yahoo! Auctions was a semi-healthy #2 in the USA for a while, but are now pretty much gone completely (except in Japan as we all know, where they've actually beaten eBay out of the market)

Sadly also, the Trading Post website sucks harder than my Dyson vaccuum. Last time I tried listing on TP, I took a bit too long filling in my auction details and uploading my images - and what happened? Well, when your session times out, the site just tosses you back to the home page with no warning, and you lose all your work.

Let's suppose I was talking to a marketing manager of a large company the other day, who told me they nearly bought Oztion recently - but didn't, because even Oztion (currently #2 in the auction website stakes in Australia) are still miles behind eBay and not gaining much traction in terms of market share. I reckoned they should have bought Oztion anyway (it would really have boosted it, lets just say). Despite it's stupid name, a country-specific eBay competitor tapping into local classified sales is probably the only species of competitor eBay is ever likely to have. Example: TradeMe.co.nz in New Zealand, which has gone great over there and done comparatively well.

cheers,

H.