Tamiya's Latest: Countach 1/10!

[DeeMiller]

Today, I saw the future release of Tamiya: a 1/10 Countach! Source

Now that's GREAT news!

I think it will be a bigger Lexan version of the 1/12 TamTechGear but I'm very curious how many body parts are included...

I hope they will fit some proper wheels on it...

Can't wait!

Pics anyone???

[VagabondStarJXF]

OOOOOoooooohhhhhh! A 1:10 Countach from Tamiya! I can't wait. I had the HPI body and, while that was ok, it just wasn't good enough for me. Being on the TT01-E should mean that it'll have light buckets too if it follows suit from the other recent TT01 releases. I just hope they release some decent Countach wheels to go with it. Somebody, anybody, please post up pics as soon as you get them.

[ukzz4iroc]

Oh that is so cool!!! Yipeee!!

[andi4x4]

Oh that is so cool!!! Yipeee!!

Come on then ! Where is the pic - You can't announce this and not show us !

[irenL]

i just hope it'll be a scale 200mm or so... just to put it on par with the F40 and GT cars..

[richytanimal]

Can't wait

[DeeMiller]

i just hope it'll be a scale 200mm or so... just to put it on par with the F40 and GT cars..

The TT-01E chassis is 251mm so the F40 is more like 1:9,5 while the Countach would be closer to 1:10 scale.

Man, I'm curious!

Unseen, I'll put it in back order today!

[irenL]

The TT-01E chassis is 251mm so the F40 is more like 1:9,5 while the Countach would be closer to 1:10 scale.

Man, I'm curious!

Unseen, I'll put it in back order today!

Dee,

by 200mm I meant 200mm width.. The 2wd F40 is roughly 210mm wide by the time u got to the rear wheel arch.

TT01E can be had as either 251mm wheelbase, or the more common 256mm wheelbase, but in all is really no more than 186mm or so wide... Gonna be some pretty deep offset wheels if tamiya decided to do it 200mm...

[Blacque Jacque]

I've just built a TT01R, fitted with TG10 long axles, 12mm spacers & Kawada wheels & tyres (32 rear 26 front) & it's a perfect fit for the HPI Countach shell, 210mm wide at the rear, 200 at the front.

I'll post some pics this evening.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tamiya are using the HPI shell, they've done this kind of thing before with Parma, & the HPI is an officially licensed Lamborghini product.

I haven't tried the chassis with the Tamiya 2 piece wheels, I'll do that tonight too & see what front & rear track comes out at.

[DeeMiller]

Dee,

by 200mm I meant 200mm width.. The 2wd F40 is roughly 210mm wide by the time u got to the rear wheel arch.

TT01E can be had as either 251mm wheelbase, or the more common 256mm wheelbase, but in all is really no more than 186mm or so wide... Gonna be some pretty deep offset wheels if tamiya decided to do it 200mm...

Right!

LOL! I was more refering to your "par" and "scale" to the F40/GT-cars (by using the "standard" wheelbase for a calculation of the actual scale).

Indeed interesting to see how Tamiya has solved this 200mm issue...(have they???)

I highly doubt Tamiya will use the HPI shell as they have the copyright of the Countach too.

In fact, it's just flipping a switch to get from the TamTech 1/12 to the new 1/10 Lexan shell if I am informed correctly.

Now that we're talking about the ET of the wheels, I'm even more curious!

I would love to see a Countach with the wide scale OZ-wheels wheels to fit the scale 345 tires (back then, the widest available for sportscars)!

[Blacque Jacque]

I'm sure upscaling to 1/10th is A LOT more complex than "flipping a switch"

You're right about the licensing though, I forgot the 1/12th Tamtech.

As for width, yes, I'd like to see how they plan to bring it out to 200 or more wide.

[DeeMiller]

I'm sure upscaling to 1/10th is A LOT more complex than "flipping a switch"

Believe it or not, I've heard it isn't. (no offence )

Besides, it's irrelevant to us: as long as the price is right, it will sell, simple.

It wouldn't surprise me if we'll have a 935 and a 288 GTO both in 1/10 in the near future (do NOT quote me on that, LOL! ).

Beside of the advanced flexible CNC-software used by Tamiya (note: only guessing), I also can see a red line here (looking at the Lexan 934 both in 1/12 and 1/10 scale and now we'll get the Countach...).

Looking at cost reduction at a niche market like Tamiya RC is in: unlimited up- or downscaling of "cheap" Lexan body molds together with a already existing and proven chassis...makes sence doesn't it?

I think it is just that easy (and beautiful imho!!!).

[DeeMiller]

A TT01 and the Tamiya 2-Piece Wheel set (without any spacers, 0 deg. camber):

Front: 188 mm*.

Rear: 198 mm*.

*=Widest option.

Grtz Dee.

[Blacque Jacque]

And with TG10 axles & 12mm spacers ?

[DeeMiller]

And with TG10 axles & 12mm spacers ?

You do the math!

[terry.sc]

So apart from speculation in this thread there is no indication at all it will be anything but the standard 190mm wide body as it's mounted on the TT-01E chassis.

I'm sure upscaling to 1/10th is A LOT more complex than "flipping a switch"

Believe it or not, I've heard it isn't. (no offence )

Dennis you are seriously misinformed by someone who has no idea of the process involved in such a specialised area, unless you expect them to mould a shell then inflate it like a balloon to make it bigger. (no offence )

Enlarging the 3d computer model requires the computer model to be adapted to fit the new chassis dimensions, then the computer model will need adapting to look right. Just stretching the body to the chassis will be out of proportion and it will need reshaping to keep the right look.

Each shell needs a whole new metal pattern making, for the production runs Tamiya deals in and the quality of the bodies along with all the development work I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up costing Tamiya $100,000 to retool for this. Not exactly "flipping a switch"

[DeeMiller]

So apart from speculation in this thread there is no indication at all it will be anything but the standard 190mm wide body as it's mounted on the TT-01E chassis.

Believe it or not, I've heard it isn't. (no offence )

Dennis you are seriously misinformed by someone who has no idea of the process involved in such a specialised area, unless you expect them to mould a shell then inflate it like a balloon to make it bigger. (no offence )

Enlarging the 3d computer model requires the computer model to be adapted to fit the new chassis dimensions, then the computer model will need adapting to look right. Just stretching the body to the chassis will be out of proportion and it will need reshaping to keep the right look.

Each shell needs a whole new metal pattern making, for the production runs Tamiya deals in and the quality of the bodies along with all the development work I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up costing Tamiya $100,000 to retool for this. Not exactly "flipping a switch"

Well, it sounds plausible to me as each CNC-machine just works with coordinates (X/Y/Z*), nothing more, nothing less.

It's NOT a 3D computer model made from polys/nodes.

A 3D computer model is only used to design the parts (and, probably, the software will even calculate the data for the PLC of the CNC-machine).

I expect Tamiya doesn't have simple CNC-machines like the ones we can effort.

I can even imagine they use professional software which allows it to scale things up.

But when you already have the programm (as in "coordinates") it's pretty easy to scale it up (like my phrase "flipping a switch"), it's just data (which is already present from the 1/12 mold).

The wheelbase is the keyfactor here, and thereby the length is known.

By knowing that, you also know how wide it will be (keeping the model in same proportion as the 1/12 that is).

That's why I wonder what wheels will be in the 1/10 kit as it will become about 198 mm in width (calculated from the 1/12 TamTech body).

As Blacque Jacque already mentioned, it could well be some kind of wheel like the 2 Piece Wheel set...well, it should be!

Grtz Dee.

*=Width/Height/Depth

[HunterZero]

Oooh, cool! I'd love to see this on the TB03 IFS...

- James

[irenL]

well, if wheelbase is key, then we may have a problem.

Like I've said, Tamiya offered the TT01E in standard and short wheelbase. However, Tamiya made no specific note which wheelbase you'll be getting with the body.

I don't remember Tamiya stating anywhere on the kit box that the TT01E chassis you're getting with the SX4 body will be a short chassis (TT01ES for example), until you looked at the specs on the side panel. Pretty much unlike how it's been in the past with the TA02SW, TA03FS/RS, TA04S... and a bit confusing in case of TA04 because the S stood for either sport or short wheelbase.

Also, in keeping with the low price theme of the TT01 series... I wouldn't expect the wheels to be a 2 piece variety.. The body itself would be pretty darn detailed, with light buckets, and likely hard plastic spoiler + mirrors. Price got to be cut somewhere..

If tamiya make a mention that the countach body will be sold with other chassis as well, for example the TA05 or even the new TB03, then we can be assured that it'll be a standard wheelbase.

[terry.sc]

Well, it sounds plausible to me as each CNC-machine just works with coordinates (X/Y/Z*), nothing more, nothing less.

It's NOT a 3D computer model made from polys/nodes.

A 3D computer model is only used to design the parts (and, probably, the software will even calculate the data for the PLC of the CNC-machine).

Where do you think the co-ordinates come from to create the path for the CNC miller? First it needs a 3D computer model to start from. lIn CNC production you don't spend loads of time designing a 3D computer model then have someone sit down and try and work out where every single co-ordinate is separately, you create a 3D mesh which is then converted by the computer into the toolpaths (CNC machines don't work from co-ordinates) the CNC miller can use.

If you actually sit down and think about it, which of these is easier to do. Enlarge a 3D model, then just let the computer create a new set of toolpaths, or someone sit down and increase thousands of separate dimensions by 1.2 as the CNC miller is a dumb machine that will only go where the toolpath tells it to. It can't just make it bigger all by itself, the CNC machines need the bigger toolpaths to follow.

But when you already have the program (as in "coordinates") it's pretty easy to scale it up (like my phrase "flipping a switch"), it's just data (which is already present from the 1/12 mold).

The wheelbase is the key factor here, and thereby the length is known.

By knowing that, you also know how wide it will be (keeping the model in same proportion as the 1/12 that is).

That's why I wonder what wheels will be in the 1/10 kit as it will become about 198 mm in width (calculated from the 1/12 TamTech body)

Just "flipping a switch" and scaling up the body to match the TT-01E wheelbase will give you a Countach which is 212.8mm wide, even with the short 251mm wheelbase. A bit too wide to pad out with 21mm long hex drives or 15mm offset wheels.

To fit the Countach body on a TT-01E chassis Tamiya re going to have to spend some time adjusting the body shape so it looks right, they can't just stretch it to fit and hope it works. From 12 years of experience as a professional modelmaker I know that reproducing something accurately in small scale does not mean it looks like the real thing, as you are viewing it from a different perspective you need to adjust the shape so it looks correct even though it isn't, and you need different tweaks to the shape at different scales to keep it looking consistent.

BTW Tamtech Gear Countach is width: 173mm, wheelbase: 204mm. For a 251mm wheelbase this gives 212.86mm width. For a standard 190mm width the wheelbase would have to only be 224mm. Mathematics has always been my strong subject

[irenL]

BTW Tamtech Gear Countach is width: 173mm, wheelbase: 204mm. For a 251mm wheelbase this gives 212.86mm width. For a standard 190mm width the wheelbase would have to only be 224mm. Mathematics has always been my strong subject

Terry, if it's the earlier calculation, then I have a chassis waiting for it already

hummm... i think tamiya will use 26mm or 24mm wheels all around... same with the 30th anniversary porsche.

[mosiac]

Please excuse the off topic but I have over 5000 hours as a CNC programmer/machinist on a 5 axis machine.

Re: "Flipping switch" Terry.sc is correct the whole body would scale up. IE every X,Y, and Z (on a 3 axis machine) dimension would be proportionally larger so as he pointed out for correct wheelbase you would have the over size track measurement. BUT on modern software this is very easy to acheive and would require no more than 4 mouse clicks and a couple of minutes recalculating toolpaths.

However it would be a cheap and tacky thing to do and if Tamiya did it I would probably not buy one as it would look naff (IMHO).

So most likely scenario is:

Scale CAD up as above and then shrink, stretch, twist and tweak every dimension till it fits desired chassis and looks like it should, and then apply NEW toolpaths. Then you would have a product that Mr Tamiya would proudly put his name on and mugs like us will fight over in 15-20 years time.

Sorry for off topic.

Cheers

Hamish

[DeeMiller]

Where do you think the co-ordinates come from to create the path for the CNC miller? First it needs a 3D computer model to start from. lIn CNC production you don't spend loads of time designing a 3D computer model then have someone sit down and try and work out where every single co-ordinate is separately, you create a 3D mesh which is then converted by the computer into the toolpaths (CNC machines don't work from co-ordinates) the CNC miller can use.

That's what I'm trying to say!

Isn't a toolpath driven by co-ordinates then?

If you actually sit down and think about it, which of these is easier to do. Enlarge a 3D model, then just let the computer create a new set of toolpaths, or someone sit down and increase thousands of separate dimensions by 1.2 as the CNC miller is a dumb machine that will only go where the toolpath tells it to. It can't just make it bigger all by itself, the CNC machines need the bigger toolpaths to follow.

Yup!

Like "flipping a switch"...

Now we're getting somewhere!

Just "flipping a switch" and scaling up the body to match the TT-01E wheelbase will give you a Countach which is 212.8mm wide, even with the short 251mm wheelbase. A bit too wide to pad out with 21mm long hex drives or 15mm offset wheels.

To fit the Countach body on a TT-01E chassis Tamiya re going to have to spend some time adjusting the body shape so it looks right, they can't just stretch it to fit and hope it works. From 12 years of experience as a professional modelmaker I know that reproducing something accurately in small scale does not mean it looks like the real thing, as you are viewing it from a different perspective you need to adjust the shape so it looks correct even though it isn't, and you need different tweaks to the shape at different scales to keep it looking consistent.

BTW Tamtech Gear Countach is width: 173mm, wheelbase: 204mm. For a 251mm wheelbase this gives 212.86mm width. For a standard 190mm width the wheelbase would have to only be 224mm. Mathematics has always been my strong subject

If you take the 204mm wheelbase of the TTG and multiply it by 12/10 or 6/5, you'll come up with 245mm wheelbase for the 1/10 version.

Maybe Tamiya has found a way to shorten it even further or maybe the shell is bigger than usual if they stick to the 251mm of the SWB TT01 (which I, like you, doubt).

I've measured the width of the shell which is 166mm and did the same: width will be 199mm (if they keep the 1/12 proportions to the 1/10 one, which is still my point).

That implies what you were saying about adjusting the real car dimensions to a scale one, so good point.

So all the adjustments are already made.

Now that we're talking and speculating, it becomes even more interesting how Tamiya does the 1/10 Countach...

Grtz Dee.

PS Do NOT call a CNC MILLER a dumb machine!!!

[irenL]

PS Do NOT call a CNC MILLER a dumb machine!!!

but it is...

[DeeMiller]

BUT on modern software this is very easy to acheive and would require no more than 4 mouse clicks and a couple of minutes recalculating toolpaths.

Thank you.