Electronic Speed Controllers Vs Old School Ones....

[94eg!]

That's YOUR fault...

Bin that MSC and get with the 1980's!!!

[HereBeMonsters]

Well the MSC worked fine after being driven through the same puddles, and in a much more exposed place on a Hornet.

Not to worry though, my waterproof Mtroniks Viper RV 15 arrived today. That and a 15T Ansmann clash in the LunchBox should be adequate...

[Singapore_959]

When you get into top-level racing ESCs, you are able to adjust the frequency at which the ESC switches. This is part of what causes a 27T motor to behave like a 17T. Lower frequencies give more punch, but can quickly destory hotter motors so care must be taken when adjusting. The other, more important factor, is internal resitance. The lower the internal resitance, the more power gets to the motor without making heat. This allows the motor to run stronger and the ESC to run cooler.

Bigger wire allows for lower internal resitance as well as less voltage drop. The lengths of wire and number of connectors plays a big part as well. For racing I direct solder my batteries and motor. I also run one single piece of wire from the battery positive to the motor positive. I simply cut of a bit of insulation in the middle of that wire to solder it to the ESC. EFFIECENT!!!

Here's a pic for reference:

BTW: If your running your 27T motor on a Volac (Ko Propo VFS-1) ESC with the stock frequency profile, your REALLY missing out. Stock frequency is set high to be safe on Mod motors, so it certainly isn't optimised. If you get the handheld programer or PC-hookup, you can set the frequency to one of the recommended "stock" profiles, and you will have even more punch all around...

PS: MSCs are for the shelf (or the trash). I'm running a borrowed 1980's Tekin Sport that's been in countless cars in my old Vanquish, as well as a pool, and it still beats the pants off the old **** MSC. I burnt through 3 resistors with a 16T in my vanquish before I gave up on that stupid thing...

Driving a MSC is for kids who can't afford anything else (or crazy vintage die-hards)...

Is it easy to reprogram the Volac/VFS-1 ? How much roughly should I expect for the tool and is the software included or is it simply plug in and see everything there is and click an option? I am not great with software etc.... :

[CR-01nut]

The MSC is also silent

I hate that whine noise after adding my ESC

whine? my tekin FXR makes no noise at all.

[94eg!]

I think I picked up my handheld programmer off ebay for $25 used. RCTech.net's for-sale forum seems a good place to find these as well. It's pretty easy to do. Simply plug in the included VFS setting card and then attach the ESC's Futaba J connector to the card. You then want to download the existing profile from the ESC and save it to one of the three meory slots on the setting card. Next you can setup and save your own custom profile on of the two remaining memory slots. Now you can upload your new profile to the ESC and your good to go...

Setup is pretty easy with the programers 4 buttons. Up/Down keys cycle through your options, and the +/- keys make the changes/actions. I don't remember having any trouble getting used to using it. The only trick is not confusing loading & saving profiles from memory with receiving & transmitting profiles to the ESC. If you want to check out the user manual for the VFS setting card, here you go:

http://www.kopropo.com/america/download/VF...l%20English.pdf

And here is the other leaflet for the handheld unit (how to turn it on and change batteries I guess):

http://www.kopropo.com/america/download/Mu...E-corrected.pdf

KO Also sells a separate card for tuning their ICS servos, as well as an additional card for tuning their Helios Transmitters...

As for the PC software & adapter (both come together in one package), I've never used it myself. I'm sure a nice graphic user interface makes it very easy though. And it also gives you the option to save as many profiles as you want. Only catch is you must carry around a laptop at the track if you want to make changes there. The other problem is that either one is VERY expensive (USB or Here are the two manuals for the two different software versions (I don't know the difference):

ver-2.0: http://www.kopropo.com/america/download/VF...l%20English.pdf

ver-2.2: http://www.kopropo.com/america/download/VF...2.2Manual_E.pdf

- First you set the 32 different throttle frequencies with one of 64 different steps. For stock motors start at low frequencies and work your way up. This will make the thorttle very punchy at first and slowly smooth out at the higher end. If you want more power, lower everything more. Just be sure to check your comm & brushes for any discoloration and increase the throttle frequencies as necessary. You can also find other frequency recommendations on RCTech.net. I'm currently using the profile in post #2389 on this page...

- Next there is also a neutral brake function to add more or less drag when your off thorttle. With stock motors you generally leave this off as they have pleanty of this built in.

- Next you adjust the brake frequency (only 1 step). A lower frequncy makes the brakes more powerfull and a higher frequency makes them smoother.

- Next you adjust the power-save voltage. This is explained in the setting card manual. I believe it tells the ESC what voltage to start restricting motor power to keep the radio gear on.

- Next is throttle response. I believe this allows you to reduce the sensitivity of the thottle to help smooth out harsh inputs. Typically you leave this off for stock racing...

- Next is the current limiter. Kinda like traction control for mod motors. Leave it off for stock motors...

- The rest of the options are for loading, saving, sending, receiving and switching how the information is viewed...

Here is another page of info, but their "Setups" are really confusing. The problem is that they use numeric values from 0-35 (like a computer), but the programer uses digits 1-36. This makes all their numbers off by one...

http://www.kopropo.com/america/index.php?o...0&Itemid=58

[Singapore_959]

I think I picked up my handheld programmer off ebay for $25 used. RCTech.net's for-sale forum seems a good place to find these as well. It's pretty easy to do. Simply plug in the included VFS setting card and then attach the ESC's Futaba J connector to the card. You then want to download the existing profile from the ESC and save it to one of the three meory slots on the setting card. Next you can setup and save your own custom profile on of the two remaining memory slots. Now you can upload your new profile to the ESC and your good to go...

Setup is pretty easy with the programers 4 buttons. Up/Down keys cycle through your options, and the +/- keys make the changes/actions. I don't remember having any trouble getting used to using it. The only trick is not confusing loading & saving profiles from memory with receiving & transmitting profiles to the ESC. If you want to check out the user manual for the VFS setting card, here you go:

http://www.kopropo.com/america/download/VF...l%20English.pdf

And here is the other leaflet for the handheld unit (how to turn it on and change batteries I guess):

http://www.kopropo.com/america/download/Mu...E-corrected.pdf

KO Also sells a separate card for tuning their ICS servos, as well as an additional card for tuning their Helios Transmitters...

As for the PC software & adapter (both come together in one package), I've never used it myself. I'm sure a nice graphic user interface makes it very easy though. And it also gives you the option to save as many profiles as you want. Only catch is you must carry around a laptop at the track if you want to make changes there. The other problem is that either one is VERY expensive (USB or Here are the two manuals for the two different software versions (I don't know the difference):

ver-2.0: http://www.kopropo.com/america/download/VF...l%20English.pdf

ver-2.2: http://www.kopropo.com/america/download/VF...2.2Manual_E.pdf

- First you set the 32 different throttle frequencies with one of 64 different steps. For stock motors start at frequency 1 on step 1 and work your way up to around frequency 28 on step 32. This will make the thorttle very punchy at first and slowly smooth out at the higher end. Be sure to check your comm & brushes for any discoloration and increase the higher throttle frequencies as necessary. You can also find other frequency recommendations on RCTech.net (I'm using the profile in post #2389 on this page)...

- Next there is also a neutral brake function to add more or less drag when your off thorttle. With stock motors you generally leave this off as they have pleanty of this built in.

- Next you adjust the brake frequency (only 1 step). A lower frequncy makes the brakes more powerfull and a higher frequency makes them smoother.

- Next you adjust the power-save voltage. This is explained in the setting card manual. I believe it tells the ESC what voltage to start restricting motor power to keep the radio gear on.

- Next is throttle response. I believe this allows you to reduce the sensitivity of the thottle to help smooth out harsh inputs. Typically you leave this off for stock racing...

- Next is the current limiter. Kinda like traction control for mod motors. Leave it off for stock motors...

- The rest of the options are for loading, saving, sending, receiving and switching how the information is viewed...

Here is another page of info, but their "Setups" are really confusing. The problem is that they use numeric values from 0-35 (like a computer), but the programer uses digits 1-36. This makes all their numbers off by one...

http://www.kopropo.com/america/index.php?o...0&Itemid=58

Wow! Thanks alot, 94eg!

I will search one out. Non on ebay at present. The hand held sound more than enough if I get to it. But does it come with 2 or 3 'stock' programs for non hot motors like you mentioned in your first post?

[94eg!]

The handheld unit doesn't come with any profiles. You will have to look up the links I gave you and program them in yourself. It's not hard and you don't need to have it hooked up to the ESC to do it. I wrote them down on a piece of paper and entered them in while watching TV. I saved the custom profiles to slots 2 & 3. Then I hooked it to the ESC and downloaded & saved the original Volac program to slot 1 so I wouldn't loose it.

You can also edit any of those profiles and upload them to ESC without having to save them. Making small changes on the fly are very easy like this.

- Unplug ESC from receiver, connect to handheld unit & Turn everything on

- Download your current ESC profile (or load a saved profile)

- Edit the profile as needed

- Upload profile to ESC

- Shut off everything, disconnect from unit and plug ESC back into receiver

[Malakite]

This is all a little beyond me! Can anyone answer my last question though which was if I should be accelerating gradually with my ESC for an old vntage as I wanted to know if you went really quickly to top speed with a MSC and an ESC, is there a difference in damage to a gearbox or only when you brake/slam it in reverse?

Thanks

[94eg!]

When jamming the throttle, there is probably not much difference. The ESC does have a switching speed which does soften the initial jolt a bit maybe, but the 3-step has to pass steps 1 & 2 before getting to full blast as well. Probably not much difference...

Of course there is a difference in jolts between the 3 sharp steps vs say 256 discrete ones.

Either way the jolt is only as good as your tires traction with the ground...

[HereBeMonsters]

I've just swapped the Mtroniks in, and it's absolutely rubbish. No punch at all, very little braking, and reverse has no power. Useless.

[Malakite]

When jamming the throttle, there is probably not much difference. The ESC does have a switching speed which does soften the initial jolt a bit maybe, but the 3-step has to pass steps 1 & 2 before getting to full blast as well. Probably not much difference...

Of course there is a difference in jolts between the 3 sharp steps vs say 256 discrete ones.

Either way the jolt is only as good as your tires traction with the ground...

Very true and many thanks for the advice

[markbt73]

Well the MSC worked fine after being driven through the same puddles, and in a much more exposed place on a Hornet.

I just picked up an old Stadium Thunder for a backyard basher. It included the old MSC, and I considered re-installing it for that very reason. I could just put the receiver in a balloon, and go nuts in the Portland rain without fear of burning up an ESC.

In the end, I stuck a TEU101 in there so I didn't have to solder anything, since all my batteries are Deans plugs. But if it gets really wet this winter, I might just consider going old-school.

[skip665]

I just picked up an old Stadium Thunder for a backyard basher. It included the old MSC, and I considered re-installing it for that very reason. I could just put the receiver in a balloon, and go nuts in the Portland rain without fear of burning up an ESC.

In the end, I stuck a TEU101 in there so I didn't have to solder anything, since all my batteries are Deans plugs. But if it gets really wet this winter, I might just consider going old-school.

At a recent bash where I knew it was going to be very wet (and cold) I just shoved the reciever and TEU101 into a zip lock bag and put packing tape over the end - it worked brilliantly - cheap and cheerful temporary solution!