How To Check Specs Of An 'old' Motor?

[Alamut]

Hi Guys,

I'm currently trying to figure out what the specifications are of some motors I got when buying used Tamiya cars.

My problem might - I hope - sound familiar: I have for instance a Team Orion 2R Pro-BB. Unfortunately... there's no tag mentioning the number of turns on that motor. So... is there a way to 'count' them on the rotor? Where do I start? And where do I stop, lol???

As I have a number of nice looking can's from Team Orion, Parma / PSE, Nosram and LRP... and even a very old Trinity... but only esc's with 15T limit, I would love to find out what motor for what runner. Those cars? F103's, DF-02's, TT-01's, F201 and counting.

Please don't advise me to purchase a dynamometer (to expensive for the purpuse) or just put all those can's in a car & just check out the performance. To dangerous to my precious esc's! And all right, I admitt: maybe to much of a hassle to screw all of them into a runner.

Hope someone can help me out!

Thx in advance,

Goldnest.

[B.M.T.]

The only way to count the turns is to destroy the motor by unwinding it.

Only thing to do is to try it.

Sometimes a motor that has been run hot looses magnet strength, and won't perform or draw current like an new equivalent. Some older motors go a lot harder than modern ones with the same turn count.

The turn count is only a ball park rating, anyway. It's the thickness of the wires, and if it's a single, double, triple etc wind (being a number of smaller gauge wires wound in unison). Look at the "Sportsman" class 19 turn spec motors. I have one that has output in the league of "will suck all the paint off your house and give your family a permanent orange afro" rating, much more than a very disappointing 15 turn I bought. A 27 turn ROAR stock will pants a 23 turn ballraced mod.

Also, the application and use has effect. Say you have an ESC with a 18t limit. You could put that in a HotShot, with the biggest pinion and a factory supplied RS540 and make that ESC thermal cut out buy driving up hill in long grass constantly for 10 minutes under full throttle.

Or, you could put that 18t ESC in a light little 2WD Hornet, with bearings and slick tyres. If you were racing on flat concrete for 5 minute heats, with 1 hour breaks, you could potentially get away with a 14 turn motor. The light weight little Hornet won't even make the motor break a sweat, and will draw less current than the over geared silver can in the heavy and inefficient Hotshot with it's 20-something bushings stuck in the long grass.

It's all relative, nothing is arbitrary

[Alamut]

Thx B.M.T.!

What a coincedence a mate from down under - from my point of view that is - comes with some solid advice! Now you're added to my ever growing list of easy going Austrialians!

Now, maybe some more info to help get more answers:

Amongst others, I 'race' some TT-01's. Which I like... even though I might be the only one on the planet that actually does.

I break in my motors in hot, soapy water. I tune the TT-01 chassis by removing excess plastic on all drive gear parts using a dremel. I use somewhat decent esc's and battery sticks (e.g. LRP & Team Orion). And so far, the best driving I had is with my old trusty Superstock RZ (23T) as long as I don't overgear it. Last time 22 x 61 seemed to be - just a little - overgeared for my driving style on a carpet track.

Tried with a 13 turns Nosram... had to call the fire brigade! A 17 turn LRP? Still gets overheated.

Now as I mentioned... I think a number of motors I have are 27 stock 'Quality' motors. That's at least my guess as I read 'hand balanced, hand wound, diamond trued' on a can that came out of a raced Dyna Storm. Probably great stuff for a TT-01 carpet racer, as long as I know what gear ratio & esc to use. That far I am already, lol!

No, still no option to test all gear ratio's on all different motors! Remember, we're talking TT-01 user friendliness over here!

Have something to add... please do! We can only learn from eachother, right?

Thx in advance!

[terry.sc]

The only way to tell is if the wind is written anywhere on the armature or can, usually there is no markings and no way to tell. I got into the habit of dismantling any new motor I bought and writing the wind on the armature with permanent marker so I would know what it was in future.

[B.M.T.]

I had a go at seeing what I could squeeze out of a TT (short of the 3Racing chassis) and never was really happy with it. I believe I could of built a TL-01 that would of driven circles around for far less (I have a bizarre fondness for TL's. With the right tweaks they can pretty much keep with anything, in my experience). Each to their own, though.

I found racing the TT in 540 at Castle Hill (I like 540 classes, and will support them where ever I run) I found that even though the car was no heavier than when it started out, I could not gear it in the league of any other car there with out motor temps going critical. I think they are just inherently inefficient somewhere in the drive line, due to something like tooth profile, bevel angles, gear materiel even (even though ceramic grease should of cured that), something that can't be modded out of it. Also, they are a heavy little tub, and you can't remove too much weight, because they are soft chassis'd as it is (I had the CF top deck, and it used to torque the screws loose in the bulkheads on high grip nights).

Unfortunately, in my opinion at least, the TT is the first budget Tamiya TC not able to (reliably) shame it's mid to mid high brethren with the right tickles in the right places.

[retroman]

Dude, you're not alone with the TL01 thing

I have 2, one is stock apart from a ball race set, the other one I have spent way too much on....... Manta Ray ball diffs front and back, proper TRF shockers, ball raced, alloy prop shaft, UJ driveshafts, light weight chassis set, speed tuned gear set, anti roll bars front and back........ Keep meaning the get the LA suspension set for it though! Always been a good little chassis, just has a tendancy to grip roll in high grip situations

I agree with BMT about the turn of a motor only being a ball park thing. An old motor, with weak magnets will always have far less amp draw than a fresh motor, with the same turn armature. The only real way to be safe is to know what the maximum amp rating is on the ESC, and work out how many amps the motor will pull, with the gearing you are running. Way too complicated for me!!

Always enjoyed 27 turn stock racing myself. There's nothing like a 27 Turn single, with an ESC that you can arc weld with! Always been a fan of the Keyence ESC's

[B.M.T.]

Oh, dude... Go the LA mod if you can find one. Alters the roll center, gives it the wee bit of castor that's missing (helps eliminate the tipping on initial turn in) and a multitude of goodness. It's the EVO 2 or 3's suspension made to fit the TL.

[retroman]

Ah, that explains a lot. I have found that it has been initial turn in that causes the grip roll. Good to hear that it gives a bit of castor also. Something that is seriously lacking in the TL01. At the club I used to race at, there was a few of us that had TL01's, so we had a heat for them. The only rules were that it had to be a TL01, and it had to have a kit standard silver can in it. The guy's in the TL01 heat were good drivers, and it's probably some of the best racing I have ever had. Really close. You don't need an X-Ray, or a TRF with a 7 single in it to have fun!!