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Obsession With Driving Fast..?

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Why do we do it..? Why do we just not stick to the standard kit motors etc and be done there, but no...we have this obsession with getting our cars/buggies modified so much that anything in the drive-train becomes a consumable. Well it does if your are like me and you've hop'd up a 20 year old car and now your starting to see the limitations - soon all ill have left is my powerful 12t motor i bought on Ebay and 4 wheels.

Now I need those little metal bars that hold the wheel axle in place and I dont know what they are called, the day before that it was a drive shaft, before that a gearbox...........bottom line mixing new technology with old isnt always good.....for a few short runs its great, than my car dies and something else has been stripped, worn or broken.......back to ebay - again.

Anyone else suffering from this.........anyone..?

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Its very tempting to put a ezrun in my frog. But its fast enough with the sport tuned motor and I know anything faster will destroy the gear box.

When I get my slash though that will get the meanest brushless set up around! because I know it can take it. :(

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There is a saying........ oh yeah thats it..... I have a need, the need for speed!!!

Even though I like the scale slow stuff, I just love a bit of insane speed, it saves my driving licence.

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If any of you know the first "Mad Max" film well, there is a scene in a scrap yard, and the sign on the wall says "speed is just a question of money- how fast can you afford"?

I have certainly found the above true with my vintage Frog....everytime I run it, something breaks, or jams up! If I'm not careful, it will wind up being a re-re, with vintage shocks on the back :(

I guess that it's just a case of using them how you enjoy them the most, but I think that you miss out on some of the vintage experience by putting modern horsepower up them. Power that they were not designed to cope with. My King Blackfoot pulls wheelies with just the stock silver can in it, so I reckon that it doesn't need a bigger motor. Same goes for my Blazing Blazer, or King Hauler.

If I feel the need for speed, I just grab my Associated B4. Modern buggy, with a modern drive train, that can cope with the power :)

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You don't need to go fast, you just need to go slightly faster than the chassis can really handle.

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Would i be better off with a higher pinion ie less accelearation..?

Im running as low as i can go 13T for the Hotshot 2 and its still **** fast with the 12t motor - maybe the accelaration is blowing everything..?

Must admit tho...because i snapped a drive shaft i made it a 2wd for a laugh and the power being supplied to the rear wheels was brilliant....then i ruined that triangular wheel hub and the small metal bar that holds in in place went flying off somwhere at a gazillion miles/hour.

Theres something good about an overload..lol.............still annoying tho.

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have you considered a nice 19t motor? goes fast, batteries last longer, you take the car home in one piece to enjoy it again tomorrow without major repairs. :)

a friend and i had this discussion not long ago. he has a brushless motor in his touring car and has without fail destroyed his car and taken it home in pieces every single time we have gone out bashing together. i keep asking him why, but he just grins at me stupidly and then shells out $$$$ to fix it and do it all over again. i'm guessing it really is fun. but i still don't get it.

my cars are pretty fast but i keep them under the insane range of speed and they last a long, long time before wearing out parts naturally. added bonus, i miss the curbs, trees and parked cars - most of the time anyway - and parts don't normally go flying off in broken melty chunks at near light speed. :)

i still have lots of fun, but i've bought several nice cars with the same amount of money he has spent repairing his 1 car after a dozen or so yard sale crashes / rebuilds.

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I know what you mean.

Lately my off-road bashing has mainly consisted of trying to get a LunchBox to rock crawl. Driving it at scale speeds through snow, streams and ponds, over logs etc. so today I thought I'd try the TT-01 out on a vacant lot near work.

First time I'd given it full whack with the 9T EZ-Run and LiPo. Dear God it's fast. Has to be doing at least 40mph, it was faster than most of the cars going by (in a 40 limit), and gets there in under a second when there's enough traction.

Got another two EZRuns to go into a DF-03, and what else...maybe I'll have to get a stadium truck for it.

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I'm over the whole speed quest. My Pirate 10 with a .21 and steel 2speed is ballistic but it leaves in pieces every time. My Xray T1 with an 8t single in it scared me. I geared it tall (24/80) and took it out on the street. Way too fast. I like silver cans, black cans, and stocks. I have some retro motors but they are not that fast by today's standards. So the Technigold goes into the Hotshot and the 480G goes into the Optima Mid. I don't think these motors will break either of these cars but still provide plenty of fun. The way I see it, I've been in this hobby for 23 years, I can build something extremely fast but the real challenge is to build something more fun than my Midnight Pumpkin with a 240st that I built 19 years ago.

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Some good feedback ....

more than likely fix the old hotshot 2 up then invest in a Dark Impact or Durga, I will probably stick the sport tuned back in there or get a 19T as some of you have suiggested....is a sport tuned (23t i think depending on where it was made) much slower than a 19turn..? I too have owned the Hotshot 2 since I built it in 1988 - so I dont want to reck the old thing - ive put so much TLC back into since Jan..! when i finally returned to the hobby - better late than never.

I have readio gear, motor, ESC etc so Id only need the DI/Durga chasis - I think id look forward to the build just as much as the drive. But at least with these models I could upgrade without killing it on every run. Modelsport do the DI for 130 quid which isnt bad, some of the hong Kong ebayers are doing it for 115 quid....ive never dealt with them so i dont know if this is legit..?

Ive heard that these buggies (DB01, DF03) can handle brushless power with only minor mods.......does anyone know what these minor mods are..?

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Ive heard that these buggies (DB01, DF03) can handle brushless power with only minor mods.......does anyone know what these minor mods are..?

Take a look at what I used for my brushless DF-03 build. Add to a Dark Impact the hopups that are on the DF-03 MS kit and the few extras I needed listed at the bottom.

Slipper Clutch will give you the right gearing having the 82T spur combined with the 22T/23T 0.5mm pinion set. The CVD driveshaft set is a must have item for any sort of power in DF-03. The other hopus the DF-03 MS kit includes improve tunability and control.

There is a full list of what upgrades are included in the DF-03 MS at TamiyaUSA website. Well worth the extra the kit costs over a DI kit. Only real downside to the MS kit is the need to buy tyres separately as none are included in the box.

BD-01 is more suited to track work being belt drive. The belt cover is merely a rock sheild and will not seal out fine dirt or sand.

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I dont know why I wrote this I don't understand why this topic always makes me touchy I am old enough to know better. however it does so don't read it unless you feel you need to :)

<rant>

I think the accepted average speed for a UK RC 1/10th Modified (approx 2.5t brushless) Touring car at an outdoor sized race track is 50mph + give or take with a 0-40 speed of about 1 second. I believe the straight line - bashing - speed is accepted at about 65mph out of the box same set up.

Not sure about buggies but would guess about 5mph less?

Now back to touring cars as this is all I know, you can expect the car (50 MPH+) to survive one or two serious crashes if your lucky. That's using a competition touring car such as TRF 41X range or Schmacher 3.5, Associated TC5r, HotBodies Cyclone, Xray 2008 etc.... All of which have parts designed from carbon and metal to take the strain and punishment expected to be delivered by the sort of power source that can generate these speeds and acceleration.

To expect a car made of plastic to endure the same - even if driven by a driver who does not crash - is simply not realistic. It's no different to real life cars stick a powerful engine in a cheap entry level shopping car and not only will the drive train collapse but the car would be dangerous, try stopping/steering a Daihatsu Sirion at 200 MPH not a chance, Bugatti Veyron no problem. You would not do this to the Daihatsu Sirion so why expect either a Vintage Re-Re or an entry level Tamiya Kit to do it?

If your budget is limited buy a second hand 3rd generation Touring Car (Off road anything good) off ebay, it will be fine and will allow you to live all your speed dreams along with the ability to handle it, just be aware... Cost = (Time + Money) x Speed and speed is measured on an exponential scale.

</rant>

I apologise for any offence and my inability NOT to post this

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Now back to touring cars as this is all I know, you can expect the car (50 MPH+) to survive one or two serious crashes if your lucky. That's using a competition touring car such as TRF 41X range or Schmacher 3.5, Associated TC5r, HotBodies Cyclone, Xray 2008 etc.... All of which have parts designed from carbon and metal to take the strain and punishment expected to be delivered by the sort of power source that can generate these speeds and acceleration.

hi there

if I may, actually, this is exactly the other way around.

A TT01 will survive a full-speed crash much better than a competition level touring car, and I mean both of them running the same speed. the competition car is rigid and lightened, which means it will suffer decelerations much worse than the marshmallow-made TT01.

Hit a board with a CycloMi415TC5 at 40mph and you'll rip the front end apart, litterally (parts will be scattered all over the track). Do the same with a TT01, the plastic will bend at the impact, absorb the energy, and then come back in place.

Paul

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You don't need to go fast, you just need to go slightly faster than the chassis can really handle.

exactly! A VLB with a 23T can be a lot more fun than a full blown racer that can handle a lot of power....

Try a 19T in a grasshopper with a lipo, you'll see what i mean! :)

Paul

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hi there

if I may, actually, this is exactly the other way around.

A TT01 will survive a full-speed crash much better than a competition level touring car, and I mean both of them running the same speed. the competition car is rigid and lightened, which means it will suffer decelerations much worse than the marshmallow-made TT01.

Hit a board with a CycloMi415TC5 at 40mph and you'll rip the front end apart, litterally (parts will be scattered all over the track). Do the same with a TT01, the plastic will bend at the impact, absorb the energy, and then come back in place.

Paul

It would be an interesting test, I have a spare TC5r but unfortunately I am away for a couple of weeks, dont let me stop you though, post your video just as soon as I am back i will do the same LOL

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Unless you are racing there usually isn't much fun in all out speed, especially in underspecced chassis. seen plenty of high speed touring chassis which means all the owner can do is drive it up and down in a straight line on the road while his mates watch. Usually they aren't geared right so you can't potter around at slow speed with them.

Ive heard that these buggies (DB01, DF03) can handle brushless power with only minor mods.......does anyone know what these minor mods are..?

As Mark said the DF03 needs a few mods. Slipper clutch to protect the drivetrain, metal diff outdrives in the rear diff (use the parts designed for the front) and universals will get it running reliably. You'll then need to sort out the shocks as with the extra speed it will be bouncing everywhere. Everything but the metal rear diff outdrives are included in the DF03MS kit.

The DB01 is designed for racing and can handle it all out of the box, just fit a set of universal driveshafts in there. A slipper clutch would be a nice, but not as necessary as the DF03 as the belts will allow a bit of give in the drivetrain.

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I think the accepted average speed for a UK RC 1/10th Modified (approx 2.5t brushless) Touring car at an outdoor sized race track is 50mph + give or take with a 0-40 speed of about 1 second. I believe the straight line - bashing - speed is accepted at about 65mph out of the box same set up.

2.5t?? meaningless really when you talk brushless, what is the Kv of the motor and the Amp rating of the ESC? Did you have the system way out of spec running it on 4s Li-Po (I've seen it done)

50mph on the track is very good speeds indeed. 65mph with a basher is not impossible, but don't expect the motor and ESC to last long gearing it like that. Take the car that is doing 65mph on 3s Li-Po and add that 4th cell, there only 1 thing it can do until it goes bang.

Not sure about buggies but would guess about 5mph less?

Buggies have bigger wheels, same gearing and bigger wheels equals.... you can see this one for yourself I'll assume.

Now back to touring cars as this is all I know, you can expect the car (50 MPH+) to survive one or two serious crashes if your lucky. That's using a competition touring car such as TRF 41X range or Schmacher 3.5, Associated TC5r, HotBodies Cyclone, Xray 2008 etc.... All of which have parts designed from carbon and metal to take the strain and punishment expected to be delivered by the sort of power source that can generate these speeds and acceleration.

To expect a car made of plastic to endure the same - even if driven by a driver who does not crash - is simply not realistic. It's no different to real life cars stick a powerful engine in a cheap entry level shopping car and not only will the drive train collapse but the car would be dangerous, try stopping/steering a Daihatsu Sirion at 200 MPH not a chance, Bugatti Veyron no problem. You would not do this to the Daihatsu Sirion so why expect either a Vintage Re-Re or an entry level Tamiya Kit to do it?

Pro cars are made from carbon fibre plate and alloy. It's all great while they are new and never crashed, crash them and carbon fibre shatters and the alloy bends (and doesn't bend back). After a few impacts it's not the same chassis and is all bent with little option but to replace the bent parts so it will handle again.

Plastic will bend, then return to it's original position if it's not stretched in the process. A good example of this is the HPI Savage. All the guys I know (except one) have left their Savages all plastic and very rarely break a plastic part even though they have some spectacular crashes from some crazy sized jumps. One guy has upgraded his Savage with alloy parts, it bends if you look at it wrong and he's rarely got it running because of this. What the plastic chassis does not offer is a setup with low tollerances for racing and getting your setup 'just right' and have the chassis hold that tune. Plastic flops around everywhere and a 'tune' is something close to having the wheels pointed in the right direction.

The comparison between the two 1:1 cars is unrealistic and more like the comparison between a Tamiya TL01b and a HBX TL01b clone, one is made of cheap fragile plastic (You don't need to guess which). Good quality plastic will survive crashes that will see a pro car into the trash.

Some of the entry level cars make some of the best brushless chassis when you combine the right parts. Some not so. But I've said it before and I will say it again... Put the right Kv motor in the right chassis. Brushless is about longer runtimes, no maintainence, smooth operation and not about speed and power even though the high end systems will offer it. The SRB and GH love the 4600Kv system, but neither run standard or even gearing sold for that car.

Going faster always cost more in every way. More wear, nastier crashes, more expesive gear to get it to go fast.

Another way to look at the speed issue, if your car is not fast enough your running area is too large. Add something that challenges your driving skill instead of flatout straight runs up the road that IS boring unless it does a gazzilion mph.

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Everything but the metal rear diff outdrives are included in the DF03MS kit.

The front and rear diffs are the same thrust plates in the DF-03 MS. No plastic like the base DF-03. I was pleased to see this when I built my MS as I knew it was a weak spot from my base DF-03

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2.5t?? meaningless really when you talk brushless, what is the Kv of the motor and the Amp rating of the ESC? Did you have the system way out of spec running it on 4s Li-Po (I've seen it done)

I can see your in Australia, in the UK our racing scene is based around turns not KV see BRCA rules.

http://www.centralbooking.org/cbs/index.ph...&Itemid=109

You dont need 4s LiPo to achieve 50MPH, this is 5 cell NiMh 2.5t mod The restriction is the running area, not enough room to gear it to go faster, not my stats by the way just the accepted norm in our scene.

As for the rest totally agree its not about speed, but control. Which is why this topic always gets me going. I truly believe its not about speed for most of the posters they just think it is, give them the speed and they would not know what to do except run up and down the road which is like a hamster running in a wheel pretty pointless and in the end boring.

Paul

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You dont need 4s LiPo to achieve 50MPH, this is 5 cell NiMh 2.5t mod The restriction is the running area, not enough room to gear it to go faster, not my stats by the way just the accepted norm in our scene.

That was point I was making, you are getting these speeds on 6.0v, what happens if you take the system way out of spec and plug the 4s to it. Brushless rpm is almost proportional to voltage (minus a few losses to other energies). The potential is there, just you know better than to do it.

I've seen it here a few times now, new driver, brushless advice, then it's put into the gutter first few squirts and destroyed the new car. My kids are the same atm, all asking for more speed. When they can keep up and not get lapped when everyone is using the same motor/battery/esc then they can have a faster motor. Control before speed. My two eldest boys are getting close to it now. The older 13yr old still tries to go too fast in the corners and it's the 11yr old that can keep up and be within 1/2 lap of the lead by the end of a race. He listens to the 'control before speed' speeches I keep dishing out, where as the 'teenager' is being a true teenager.

New motors are here waiting (27T Dirt Tuned), but i'm not telling them yet :)

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i put a 17T in my F150 rally truck and well..........oops. not as fast as my old duratrax was with the same set up but much more power! i decided to make it 2WD and see what it could do like that. i stripped the ball cups and the part in the diff that they meet, literally almost lost my right rear end when a screw came out allowing my drive shaft to leave and fly away and my wheel to fold under neath my car. i think i need a new set of gears too be cause they now click no matter what. think i started stripping the spur. :)

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Now back to touring cars as this is all I know, you can expect the car (50 MPH+) to survive one or two serious crashes if your lucky. That's using a competition touring car such as TRF 41X range or Schmacher 3.5, Associated TC5r, HotBodies Cyclone, Xray 2008 etc.... All of which have parts designed from carbon and metal to take the strain and punishment expected to be delivered by the sort of power source that can generate these speeds and acceleration.

To expect a car made of plastic to endure the same - even if driven by a driver who does not crash - is simply not realistic.

I have to agree with Lonestar.

The reason competition cars use carbon and alloy parts is because those make the chassis and suspension stiffer, so more consistent handling, and because if they were made of plastic the racers wouldn't be interested in them. Yokomo proved the point at the 2008 off road Euros, winning with a base model plastic chassis against buggies costing 2-3 times as much.

Competition touring cars come with expensive carbon impregnated wishbones, makes them very stiff so all wheel movement is controlled purely by the dampers. It also makes the wishbones brittle as they won't bend at all. Hit something hard and the carbon reinforced parts shatter. Heavier, more flexible glass filled parts will absorb the loads by flexing on impact, bending back again.

If a competition chassis suspension doesn't snap in an impact, all the force is transmitted to the suspension mounts, then the gearbox where it attaches to the chassis. The thin alloy diff mounts used will bend or snap, they aren't designed to hold the parts as rigidly as possible using as little material as possible to save weight, they aren't designed to withstand a large impact. A cheap car is designed with lots of extra plastic so that although it won't be as consistent as the suspension and chassis will twist when cornering it will be designed to flex and bounce off impacts. Hit something solid with a TT01 and a fraction of the impact force will reach the chassis compared with a competition car. either way hit something at 50mph and there's a good chance you'll need a bucket to take it home.

The difference is more like an old Ferrari 512 and an old Volvo 260. One is designed to handle a lot of power at high speed, the other is designed to survive an accident. I wouldn't like to try and drive the old Volvo at 150mph and I wouldn't want to have an accident in the old Ferrari.

I would happily drive a TT01 at your TC5R to see which one survives the impact. :)

What you have described is more to do with how it affects handling, driveability and longevity, not impact survivability. The Sirion/Lupo/Ka type car is designed for a small engine, like a TT01. Drop a 2 litre engine in there with no changes and it could be pretty undriveable, if you manage to get away without snapping the driveshafts. Throw some money at it to upgrade the drivetrain, suspension, brakes as well and it will go pretty well, much the same as hopping up a basic r/c car chassis to handle the power of a 15-19 turn motor.

Fit a nitrous kit to that upgraded Sirion and it will go great, as long as you only run it in a straight line, it won't go round corners very well even with the uprated suspension because it wasn't designed for that. Eventually the body will fatigue as the shell won't be designed to handle more torque than the original engine gave out, so made of thinner metal to save weight. With the same power a Ford Focus RS accelerates, stops and goes round corners so much better because it was designed from the start to handle that power and has a stiffer body to handle the higher loads. Much the same way a competition chassis will go round corners at a much higher speed and more consistently because that's what it's designed for, and the parts won't wear out quickly like a more basic chassis will.

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i put a 17T in my F150 rally truck and well..........oops. not as fast as my old duratrax was with the same set up but much more power! i decided to make it 2WD and see what it could do like that. i stripped the ball cups and the part in the diff that they meet, literally almost lost my right rear end when a screw came out allowing my drive shaft to leave and fly away and my wheel to fold under neath my car. i think i need a new set of gears too be cause they now click no matter what. think i started stripping the spur. :)

That is common to shear off the outdrive splines on the ball diffs. It's only a very short spline and the outdrive can work it's way out just enough for it to start the process while the dogbone is still in place. CVD or Universal shafts make this problem worse. I put the bearing on first, then loctite the outdrives into the diff, never had another shear off since.

I will be building this same truck when it gets here from scollins (Thanks Mate), it's straight away getting a 4600Kv and a very similar setup to my DF-01 ex-racer.

Check for a crack in the main gear casing beside the bevel gear that goes to the front diff. If the screw hole is split the gearbox will click. Similar with the hole on the other side between the layshaft and the idler gear shaft, it the cover cracks the idler gear lifts and clicks.

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