My First Nights Racing......

[Sideways-King 1]

Had my first go with Lipo's last night and WOW what a difference! The biggest thing I noticed was no drop in power throughout the whole race. I used a new (well to me anyway) Schumacher Mi2, which no matter how much I fiddled with the settings couldn't get it to put the power down or steer OK. Didn't know if was due to the extra 'oomph' of the Lipos but brought it home in 3rd place for all the heats. A swap to my old Schuey Mission for the final saw a 1st place.

Anyway heres some trivia for you...... How do you make friends with the fastest guy at the club, who also happens to be the biggest man at the club (possibly the Universe as he's about 6'6"!!)? Do you......

A ) During the A final accidentally kick his car, whilst leading, when trying to recover another racers vehicle?

B ) During the A final skip to miss his car rapidly approaching in the lead, when trying to recover another racers vehicle, and treading on top of it?

C ) During the A final Jump to miss his car rapidly approaching in the lead, when trying to recover another racers vehicle, and landing two footed on the roof squashing the whole thing to about 10mm high?

Chris

[skip665 169]

I dont think I would want to do any of those!

Its not easy marshalling at times - I have done all sorts of acrobatics to avoid other cars whilst rescuing someone

[terry.sc 16]

Had my first go with Lipo's last night and WOW what a difference! The biggest thing I noticed was no drop in power throughout the whole race. I used a new (well to me anyway) Schumacher Mi2, which no matter how much I fiddled with the settings couldn't get it to put the power down or steer OK.

Remember lipos are a lot lighter than nimhs, quite often fitting a lipo in a tourer will unbalance the chassis as the battery side is now lighter than the motor side. You can use stick on weights to bring the weight back up, if the club runs to BRCA weight limits that's usually a lot of weights and the bottom of the battery pack is a good place to put them, so they sit in the nimh battery slots, to keep the weight low down.

A ) During the A final accidentally kick his car, whilst leading, when trying to recover another racers vehicle?

B ) During the A final skip to miss his car rapidly approaching in the lead, when trying to recover another racers vehicle, and treading on top of it?

C ) During the A final Jump to miss his car rapidly approaching in the lead, when trying to recover another racers vehicle, and landing two footed on the roof squashing the whole thing to about 10mm high?

Okay, which one did you do? I'm guessing C!

[hedge 314]

Remember lipos are a lot lighter than nimhs, quite often fitting a lipo in a tourer will unbalance the chassis as the battery side is now lighter than the motor side. You can use stick on weights to bring the weight back up, if the club runs to BRCA weight limits that's usually a lot of weights and the bottom of the battery pack is a good place to put them, so they sit in the nimh battery slots, to keep the weight low down.

Regarding adding weight a few things I have learned:

1) Do not cover the LiPo information with weights as race scrutineers need to know which pack and the details of that pack so the details need to be clearly showing

2) Add most/all the weight to the battery itself. The reason is simples - If you buy another battery that is not the same size/ capacity/make and model of your old one then the weight will be different. So if you then change packs you will change the weight of your car and possibly fail scrutineering or run a car thats well over weight. Also if you need to swap back to NiHms your car is well over weight (100s of grams).

3) Make sure the weights are secure as if you loose a weight while running you could loose your time due to failing the min weight limit in scrutineering.

Finally most Lipo Packs need at least 100g added (and I mean at least) so think before adding and make sure where ever you plan on adding them the pack will still fit in your car.

Paul

[Sideways-King 1]

Thanks for the pointers on weights, it did barrell roll a few times come to think of it at the end of the back straight. I will have a fiddle with this next week.

A ) During the A final accidentally kick his car, whilst leading, when trying to recover another racers vehicle?

B ) During the A final skip to miss his car rapidly approaching in the lead, when trying to recover another racers vehicle, and treading on top of it?

C ) During the A final Jump to miss his car rapidly approaching in the lead, when trying to recover another racers vehicle, and landing two footed on the roof squashing the whole thing to about 10mm high?

Chris

If you answered A, B & C then you'd be right.

Yes I did kick it, by accident I hasten to add, which bounced it off the edging making me skip to avoid thus treading on it firstly, which then made it do a doughnut back on itself towards me where I jumped to avoid it landing two footed on the roof!!!

I can honestly say since leaving school some .......mmmmmm ....... 17 years ago that I was thinking I was gonna be up for a big brawl with the in crowd LOL! His body language and the fact I couldn't divert my attention away from him in the pits when every other car seemed to leave the track at my marshall post, which I'd seemed to have forgotten by now, I was thinking 'oh s%%% what do I say here'.

On my approach, he was smirking and began laughing, which was when I begun watching my pereferral vision thinking all hells going to break loose now and they're all gonna come at me. It didn't happen, thankfully! And he was a great sport and managed to joke about it.

Alls well in Racing Land

[94eg! 834]

Yes we've had many similar misshaps with people stepping on cars, including a 300+ lbs fellow that blew out his knee from it. The car was blasting down the straight when he stepped on it and took his leg right from under him. Fortunately it hasn't happened to my car yet, but I know I wouldn't start a fuss over it....

As far as weight addition goes, nobody at my track (including the experts) seems to add weights to counter balance the lipos. One expert driver told me he simply uses a tweak board to ensure his car steers equal left to right. Now I have a tweak board comming to me in the mail. I hope to have it before the next race to find out for sure.

Currently I'm running the orion 2400mah which has to be lightest lipo around. In order to balance the chassis equal left/right, I would have to add more than a pair of needle-nose pliers worth of weight to the battery side. I know cause I sat my needle nose pliers on top of the battery, and the car still leaned to the motor side (hung from a string).

On a side note: The further out from the center you add your balancing weights, the less of it you will have to use. That means that if you plan on adding balance weight, you should think about strapping it to the outside edge of your lipo...

[terry.sc 16]

Thanks for the pointers on weights, it did barrell roll a few times come to think of it at the end of the back straight. I will have a fiddle with this next week.

We have one top racer who has moved over to lipos. When he first started running his first pack he was swapping between nimhs and the lipo. As our track layout runs clockwise the fast bends are all right handers. Ran fine the first race with nimhs, then put the lipo into his Mi3. He grip rolled most laps on the sweeper at the end of the straight, the rest of the time you could see the inside wheels lifting off the track.

On the night the problem was sorted by running stiffer springs only on the heavy side of the chassis to balance the handling.

Using a tweak board to set the car up does the same thing, putting extra preload on the heavy side to shift the weight across the chassis. Put it on the board and the heavy side drops, so you wind down the adjusters to load up the spring to level the board out again.

If you don't balance everything out the centre of gravity is no longer in the centre of the chassis, so the chassis will roll more one way than the other. As an extreme example, place the battery on top of the electronics, with no weight on the other side, and guess which way it will corner faster and which way it will roll over. Why do you think motorcycle sidecar racing passengers always lean over to the inside of a corner?

As for placing weights, the nearer to the centreline of the chassis the weights are the lower the moment if inertia will be, and the faster it will change direction. The further out the weights are, such as the outer edge of the chassis, the harder it is to change direction. It's why race chassis don't use a stick pack across the chassis, as that leaves a lot of weight well away from the centre of the car, making it less responsive.

[Sideways-King 1]

Many thanks 94eg! & terry.sc this info is of great help. This is exactly what mine was doing 'grip rolling'. I'll update as to how she runs next week.

Cheers

[hedge 314]

As far as weight addition goes, nobody at my track (including the experts) seems to add weights to counter balance the lipos.

We are all talking Touring Car right...

Are you saying they dont add weight at all? Or they add weight to the battery to make the car legal but dont bother specifically balancing the car?

Where do they add weight?

Do you run LiPo?

I've been running LiPo for the last year or rather as long as our nationals have allowed it (13-14months) I must say I just add the weight to the battery wherever I can, keeping to the rules laid down by BRCA. I dont then add any further counter balance weights. Just leave as is and while I understand it may no be balanced its perfectly driveable for both my Cyclone and my 009.

Paul

[94eg! 834]

We are all talking Touring Car right...

Are you saying they dont add weight at all? Or they add weight to the battery to make the car legal but dont bother specifically balancing the car?

Where do they add weight?

Do you run LiPo?

I've been running LiPo for the last year or rather as long as our nationals have allowed it (13-14months) I must say I just add the weight to the battery wherever I can, keeping to the rules laid down by BRCA. I dont then add any further counter balance weights. Just leave as is and while I understand it may no be balanced its perfectly driveable for both my Cyclone and my 009.

Paul

We don't have any weight regulations or teching at our local track. Our only rules are 7.2-7.4v & 27T and even those don't get enforced. As far as I've seen, nobody is adding ANY weight to their cars whatsoever. Our small low-traction track means we don't get much speed, so more power simply goes to waste. People that do show up with hotter motors never seem to make the A-mains anyways...

[TenzoR 62]

Great thread, I'm currently looking to join a club for this winter season

I'm hoping to pick up some used chassis after the summer season is over

[PSXBatou 2]

I have been in RC since I was 10, a good 30 some odd years. I have raced TCS in Japan and the US, as well as raced with clubs in both countries. I have come to a conclusion after trying to race this weekend; I am old and my eyesight and reflexes are not what they used to be. I can still build and modify a car with the best of them, but in my despair I watched my driving ability go down the drain. I have always had to wear eyeglasses or contacts, while when I was younger that was fine, now I notice that keeping track of a small RC car in the distance and still maintaining depth perception is quite diificult. I found myself kissing the rail a lot, as well I placed 7th out of 12th overall, a far fetch from my glory days.

It was very humbling racing again, I realized that while my skill to build a car has not faultered, my comfort in driving has. The hard part for me to grasp on to is that it isn't a skill thing, its a age thing. I just don't have the eyesight or the reflexes I had even 5 years ago. I almost felt embarrased on the track. The good part of this (if there is one) is my daughter loves this, I am currently helping her out to learn the basics of car control and mechanics. While the racing experience was humbling, if not slighlty embarassing it has taught me that it is time to move on. I will pass my torch to my daughter

I still love RC, I always will. While I may not race again you best be assured that I will be building cars still. I always loved building the cars more than running them, even at a younger age. My daughter on the other hand is a born driver, she loves driving the models and is quite good at it for her age.

[Mr. ED 5]

I have been in RC since I was 10, a good 30 some odd years. I have raced TCS in Japan and the US, as well as raced with clubs in both countries. I have come to a conclusion after trying to race this weekend; I am old and my eyesight and reflexes are not what they used to be.

Maybe crawling or smaller size tracks: like Mini-Z can make you tick?

I've never been the best of pilots myself and rarely make it to a track anymore. So I stick to amateur, stock, vintage or whatever spec class available whenever possible.

It's more fun being slow if everyone else is slow too

[paulwoodford 0]

That was a great read - I'd love to get along to one of these, and have spoken to the guy from the local club. He has already told me though that nothing Tamiya made will ever be anything other than making up the numbers. Hmmm.

I compete in 1:1 rally cars, so would love to see how the atmosphere compares at an RC meeting

[terry.sc 16]

He has already told me though that nothing Tamiya made will ever be anything other than making up the numbers.

...apart from winning more touring car world championships than any other manufacturer, along with many euro champs in on and off road.

...and being one of the most popular touring car and 4wd buggy chassis for club racers.

[terry.sc 16]

It was very humbling racing again, I realized that while my skill to build a car has not faultered, my comfort in driving has. The hard part for me to grasp on to is that it isn't a skill thing, its a age thing. I just don't have the eyesight or the reflexes I had even 5 years ago.

It will come back to you, you just need some practice. As for reflexes, the 35 year old who is the fastest driver at our club makes slow, smooth movements on the controls, no fast reflexes needed unless you are avoiding an accident. Your brain has just got to learn to drive again.

Most of the top drivers at my club used to race there in the 80's, and they all came back to the hobby recently. It took a few months but they are back to the same levels of performance they were at when they left. Of the other fast drivers, I don't think any of them are under 30. The eldest, who has retired, is still keeping up with them.

[qatmix 794]

yeah, ta05's do ok at our club

[highflyer 73]

...apart from winning more touring car world championships than any other manufacturer, along with many euro champs in on and off road.

...and being one of the most popular touring car and 4wd buggy chassis for club racers.

Well said!!

[PSXBatou 2]

It will come back to you, you just need some practice. As for reflexes, the 35 year old who is the fastest driver at our club makes slow, smooth movements on the controls, no fast reflexes needed unless you are avoiding an accident. Your brain has just got to learn to drive again.

Most of the top drivers at my club used to race there in the 80's, and they all came back to the hobby recently. It took a few months but they are back to the same levels of performance they were at when they left. Of the other fast drivers, I don't think any of them are under 30. The eldest, who has retired, is still keeping up with them.

I agree I do need more practice. I just felt as if it was hard for me to see/engage with the car when it was at the far side of the track. Honestly I think I may go back again, just not enter the mains without running the beginning events.

[paulwoodford 0]

...apart from winning more touring car world championships than any other manufacturer, along with many euro champs in on and off road.

...and being one of the most popular touring car and 4wd buggy chassis for club racers.

I think he was perhaps referring to the 'normal' Tamiya kits, as opposed to the Factory Racing stuff.

[qatmix 794]

Ta05's are box kits and can compete with anything else at club level. (tb03's as well).

I think he was perhaps referring to the 'normal' Tamiya kits, as opposed to the Factory Racing stuff.

[hedge 314]

I think he was perhaps referring to the 'normal' Tamiya kits, as opposed to the Factory Racing stuff.

It's not easy to knock a Tamiya kit on the Tamiya club forum

The problem Tamiya has at the very top end is competition ( LOL ). The old 414/415 used to tweak easily and this put people off - the clubman racer. However in the hands of the top racers - who don't crash - this was not an issue. Mark Reinhard could race a Tyko toy and win however he has spent the last few years beating everyone with his Tamiya TC.

Now I believe that Tamiya TC are very good they have ironed out the niggles, however with the exchange rate as it is the TRF416 costs in excess of £500. Against a Hotbodies Cyclone or an Xray 009 both of which are dialed cars but costing £200 less and you can see why top club racers avoid Tamiya.

So while the comment was wrong about making up the numbers - in capable hands they will win - The fact is in A finals at clubs around the country Tamiya are not prevalent.

Regarding the TA-05 this is an excellent club car and one that is often over looked by people I think due to its tub like - novice looking - chassis. Shame really cause most people get on really well with them and they are strong.

Paul

[paulwoodford 0]

It's not easy to knock a Tamiya kit on the Tamiya club forum

The problem Tamiya has at the very top end is competition ( LOL ). The old 414/415 used to tweak easily and this put people off - the clubman racer. However in the hands of the top racers - who don't crash - this was not an issue. Mark Reinhard could race a Tyko toy and win however he has spent the last few years beating everyone with his Tamiya TC.

Now I believe that Tamiya TC are very good they have ironed out the niggles, however with the exchange rate as it is the TRF416 costs in excess of £500. Against a Hotbodies Cyclone or an Xray 009 both of which are dialed cars but costing £200 less and you can see why top club racers avoid Tamiya.

So while the comment was wrong about making up the numbers - in capable hands they will win - The fact is in A finals at clubs around the country Tamiya are not prevalent.

Regarding the TA-05 this is an excellent club car and one that is often over looked by people I think due to its tub like - novice looking - chassis. Shame really cause most people get on really well with them and they are strong.

Paul

Don't worry - I wasn't knocking Tamiya

My cars are Tamiya and I don't intend to change that. I'm going to go along with my FF01 chassis at some point and see how embarassingly slow I am lol!!

[terry.sc 16]

The FF01 will be pretty slow compared to modern chassis, but then it won't break as easily! No point buying anything yet, run the FF01 and see what is popular at your local club, that way you'll be able to get help from fellow racers if you get the same chassis.

Tamiyas problem at high level racing in the UK is lack of support from the distributor, everyone bought them from Hong Kong because of that. The value of the pound against the dollar hasn't helped, but it the TRF416 is available at the same price as the others if you buy from the far east. Loads of people ran them but now Xray and Schumacher are the most popular mainly because of their team support. Yokomo have won the UK national modified class for the past few years and we don't see many of them at club level either because they don't have a big team shouting about their results.

In the end it doesn't really matter which top level touring car you have, they are all of similar design and all have similar performance.

Definitely look at a TA05 for club racing, a TA05MS and lightly hopped up TA05 certainly hold their own and can beat the Corally RDXs and Schumacher Mi3s that the others use. Nothing can beat them for performance at their price.

[Sideways-King 1]

Hi Guys,

It's been a long time since I started this and thought I'd tell you some more fun and frolics from last Tuesday nights racing as I went right back to square one again in the space of one night! Now I must stress that I am in no way a moron or backwards chap but a fine mix of excitable come ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t try to fix it’ come blissful ignorance with a slight twist of ‘don’t be too serious and have fun’ attitude.

Having spent an awful lot of money on this new ‘racing’ addiction I’m still pretty much using my old brushed motors and NIMH cells and keeping all my Brushless and Lipo gear on a new Mi3.5 chassis I haven’t used yet. Why? Because I still keep having the odd moment! It all happens when I here my name over the computer system (Stephen Hawkins voice I kid you not and I still practically pee myself every time with laughter..basic I know!) when I’m in the lead. I suddenly get so much into the zone that I always stuff it and throw the race away. I’m much more suited to sitting behind people for the majority and pouncing at the end - usually into the wall again, but there you go!

I went Tuesday night with a view to revisiting the ‘sticks’ transmitter in the form of a Futaba 40mhz synthesized as opposed to my Spektrum DX3S I have become accustomed too. Those that remember will note that 20+ years off bashing with the ‘sticks’ went out of the window and I just couldn’t get to grips with it amongst the racing atmosphere hence the big U turn to steer wheel. Well it was a nightmare. No amount of fine tuning on the handset in the first heat would help it, I was all over the place. I finished the heat and alas!... I hadn’t tightened the wheel up! First mistake.

2nd heat and again I was all over the shop! This time I’d swapped bodies and it was fouling the wheels and pulling all over the place. A quick pull in to a marshall who happened to have some scissors (Jack the Ripper springs to mind!) and by the time he finished trimming it was all over.

3rd heat and all the fiddling around with the handset had now put a bizarre load of parameters into the car that was now right and by the time I had some sort of control it just didn’t feel right. So I decided to switch over the radio gear back to my steer wheel for the finals.

Final 1 saw me at my usual starting position – the back! – and during my quick 3 lap warm up all was now sitting well again. I was as cocky as Lightening McQueen in the Piston Cup…… “ I am Speed!”. I tried not to laugh at Stephen Hawkins counting down then I was off, Keeeerchow! (Lightening McQueen reference in case you think I’m bonkers). Then like our Rust-eze friend it all went to pot and with my gung ho full throttle antics I slipped my front diff and made a RWD car, snaking everywhere much to the delight of everyone so I pulled off.

Final 2 I decided to use my spare car rather than hastily rebuild the diff, there isn’t enough time between marshalling and racing on some nights at our club to do this on an Mi2. Performance on this car though was severely lacking and it had no go at all. Not bothered to take a look at it as I just tootled round and was probably more consistent this way only loosing out on the main straight. The smell of hot electrics however afterwards suggests that I’ve geared the motor wrong on this!

I’m still enjoying this and have tried not to get obsessed with it all but it’s hard not to. Hope to meet some of you guys in the future as I will turn up to an organized event one day!

All the best