Noob With Battery Questions

[94exa2]

ok, so im new to scale rc cars (well, kinda was in the 1/28 scales cars), and picked up a mint tl-01 recently. it didnt come with any battery or charger so i went to radio shack and got a cheap RS brand 2000mah ni-cd batterypack that came with a nimh/nicd (300mah?) charger. the battery dies after like 15 minutes, and the charger takes forever to charge it, so i want a better battery and a quicker charger. so i am wondering, what would be a better batery, nicd or nimh?(why?) 4000+mah>2000-mah?(longer run times i guess, any downside to more MaH?) also, is there a downside to quick/rapid chargers?(3000mah?)

so could someone please suggest a good (but not exetremely expensive) battery and a good charger? i just want to run my rc longer and not wait 6 hrs to recharge it. thank you guys!

[TA-Mark]

WOW! Almost 7 hours to charge @ 300mAh!

A Ni-MH with capacity between 3000mAh and 4000mAh would go good. And yes, higher capacity = longer runtime as well as a slight increase in punch (higher amps).

Look at packs around the $40US to get decent quality (Example).

Only look at chargers that offer Delta Peak detection. They will fast charge the pack and automaticly turn themselves off when the pack is at it's optimal charge. Avoid timed chargers or trickle chargers. AC/DC should be around $60US and DC only around $30US.

[94exa2]

i was looking at this pack http://www.batteryjunction.com/rc7-2v4500.html

this a good pack? so nimh is better than nicd?

any example of good quick chargers? because this pack says:

Capacity: 4500 mAh

Voltage: 7.2V

Connector: Standard Tamiya

Standard Charge: 12 hours @ 300 mA

Rapid Charge: 1.5 hours @ 3000 mA

i dont want to wait 12 hrs with my 300 ma charger, i def like the 1,5 hr wait time.

i just want a simple fast charger for like a 4500 mah nimh battery.

[TA-Mark]

That battery looks fine. I don't see anything decent in chargers at that site though.

Ideal charge rate for that pack is 4.5 Amps (1C) which takes 1 hour. So you need to look at chargers that have adjustable charge rates capable of 4.5 Amp atleast as well as Delta Peak Detection. Timed chargers do not charge packs correctly. Modelsport UK Towerhobbies.

[cubsfan2009]

That pack has Tenergy cells and would be best to avoid. Higher than normal failure rate, cheap battery bars and high self discharge. The battery Mark had a link to was good and you could also check Trinity Reference series of batteries.

Another possibility with very good EP cells: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti00...LXSGD1&P=SM

Charger wise you might also consider looking at one that is lipo capable so your set for the future.

[94exa2]

im still lost with the chargers, theres so much information im not sure about.....

is there like a universal, everyone knows about, "beginers" charger that can charge a 4000/4500mah battery in like 2 hrs or less that cuts itself off?

im sorry guys, im not good with electronics and just want the basic (but good) 4000+mah battery and a quick?smart charger...

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti00...=LXVAC3&P=7 hows this charger?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti00...LXVAB5&P=SM how about this battery?

thank you guys VERY much for your time patience and help!

[cubsfan2009]

The orion rocketpack is a good battery, however for the same price you could choose two 3500+ mah packs for a 7000+mah total. Runtimes would be about 25 mins each compared to your 15 minute current pack.

Charger wise it depends on how you plan to use it. Household current, 12 volt powersource, or both? If house current then are you in the UK or US?

[94exa2]

im in the US...just wall plug....i just want a simple charger that will charge a 3500-5000 mah nimh battery pack quickly and safely....

could you please suggest a charger in general? i mean thanks for all the tips, but i still dont know what i am looking for...

[94exa2]

http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/158334.asp would this be a good "beginer" charger?

im so lost with the charger, i think i know what battery i want, just not charger yet.

[cubsfan2009]

Couple of good choices:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti00...=LXTCJ8&P=7

and same with LCD (very useful): http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti00...=LXTCJ9&P=7

Unfortunately they are out of stock, but you could find elsewhere. I use the Onyx 230 and am very happy with it.

[94exa2]

so do those two duratrax chargers just plug straight into 110v wall outlet(us), plug my battery packs up to it, select the amperage i want to charge with(im guessing 1.5 amp for a 2000 mah pack, 3 amp for a 3000mah pack and 5 amp for a 5000mah+ pack???) and it does the rest? peak charge the pack then automatically cut itselft off?

also, would a 3000mah nimh pack take about an hr to charge at 3amps?

and a 5000mah nimh pack take an hr at 5amps?

whats a decent battery maker? orion, durtrax etc?

[cubsfan2009]

so do those two duratrax chargers just plug straight into 110v wall outlet(us), plug my battery packs up to it, select the amperage i want to charge with(im guessing 1.5 amp for a 2000 mah pack, 3 amp for a 3000mah pack and 5 amp for a 5000mah+ pack???) and it does the rest? peak charge the pack then automatically cut itselft off?

also, would a 3000mah nimh pack take about an hr to charge at 3amps?

and a 5000mah nimh pack take an hr at 5amps?

whats a decent battery maker? orion, durtrax etc?

They can either plug into wall or be run off 12 volts for field charging. Proper charge amps is 1 x Capacity, so yes 3000 = 3 amps or less. Charger will do all the work and will monitor the pack voltage and stop charging when pack voltage begins to drop indicating peak charge. After fast charge it will auto switch to trickle charge to fully top off cells and balance the pack.

Charge time should be about 1 hour with amps set at 1 x Cap. Probably a little longer because of amp loss due to heat and that the charger will decrease amps as the pack reaches peak. 1.5 hours max.

Trinity, Orion, Duratrax, Associated, and SMC are all good. Biggest thing to look at is what type of cells the pack has. IB's are powerful, but tempermental and Tenergy are cheap, so best to avoid. EP and GP cells are a better choice.

[tamiya monkey]

Just woundered what you where doing, bashing or racing, ive used vapextech batteries for a while now and for the money i find them great, ive got 7.2 and 8.4 packs ranging from 3700mah to 4600mah and i cant fault them for the cash they cost. deo a search on ebay or from your browser as you can buy direct.

[94exa2]

i just race/drift mine. no jumps or anything

could you please explain IB EP GP cells for me?

[terry.sc]

could you please explain IB EP GP cells for me?

Most companies such as Vapextech, Yungtong, Ener-G, etc make their own cells, so their packs don't have cells to their own specification. All the 'performance' battery pack makers such as Reedy, Trinity, Orion, etc. make their battery packs up from cells made by companies in China. The letters are short versions of the cell manufacturers names. IB is Intellect Batteries (avoid these, they are the most unreliable), EP is East Power and GP is Gold Power.

[94exa2]

so that ~$50 durtrax charger and a durtrax ~4000 mah nimh battery pack would be a good starting setup?

simple and quick?

[94exa2]

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti00...=LXTCJ8&P=7

and same with LCD (very useful): http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti00...=LXTCJ9&P=7

so either of those 2 chargers would be a good starting point?

and a durtrax 4000-5000mah nimh battery be a good choice?

what about http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti00...=LXTAR9&P=7 ???

[evil2004]

im also lost with all the battery options available out there. My car came with a 1900 pack but i definately want to pick up a 4200 or something bigger (might search the for sale on here) can some one please explain these LIPO units that run at avout 7.4v and can they be put into tamiyas?? Excuse the question if it sounds a bit dumb.

[TA-Mark]

im also lost with all the battery options available out there. My car came with a 1900 pack but i definately want to pick up a 4200 or something bigger (might search the for sale on here) can some one please explain these LIPO units that run at avout 7.4v and can they be put into tamiyas?? Excuse the question if it sounds a bit dumb.

1900mAh is most likely a Ni-Cd battery. 4200mAh will be a Ni-MH and needs a Ni-MH charger. They use different metals in the battery and the NI-MH battery needs a charger specificly for Ni-MH. There are six 1.2 volt cells in series in the pack to make up 7.2 volts.

Li-Po is different chemistry again, using Lithium. The cells are 3.7 volt each. A 7.4v Li-Po has two 3.7 volt cells in series. You also need a Li-Po specific charger and the best ones also have a balancing feature to keep the 2 cells at the same charge. There are a few packs that will fit into Tamiya chassis, these have rounded edges so they are of similar shape to the Ni-MH/Ni-Cd stick packs. I'm using rounded edge IP4000 Li-Po and these fit fine into TA-01/02/DF-01 tubs. Yeah Racing is another I know that have the rounded edge packs.

A good explaination and many questions answered here. Clicky.

[cubsfan2009]

NiCad are ancient technology. NiMh are becoming obsolete, but a huge improvement over NiCad. Lipo is the latest in battery tech for RC. Price wise they are not really any more expensive than NiMH considering you would need a fully matched, race level NiMh to match the amp potential of just a good Lipo pack. Even then the Lipo will be lighter and give longer runtimes for the same mah.

The more exensive part is that if your current charger is not Lipo capable then you need to buy a new one. Also if your current ESC does not have Lipo cutoff you will need a new ESC or a add-on lipo cutoff.

[TA-Mark]

Price wise they are not really any more expensive than NiMH considering you would need a fully matched, race level NiMh to match the amp potential of just a good Lipo pack.

Show me a 100Amp continuous Ni-MH pack. 25C 4000mAh Li-Po is.

I've swapped completely to hard case Li-Po except for 1 car which fits into a racing class rule which forces Ni-Cd use to limit Amps.

[cubsfan2009]

Maybe I should have said cheap lipo like a 3000 mah 15C range. So apples for apple NiMh can't touch lipo performance. My only none lipo's are a 1900 NiCd beat around pack and a 3 year old 3000 NiMh that only will take 2600 now on recharge (think my NiCd has more punch). Neither of these will power my brushless DI without stuttering, but my SMC 4100 lipo makes it a rocketship. All future purchases will be lipo.

[Sideways-King]

When batteries are referred to as Matched, what exactly does that mean?

I'm thinking of making my own batteries up by buying them, soldering the bars, corally's etc. obviously from an RC retailer but does the 'matched' mean that I keep the same consistency of cell through the pack i.e/ same brand and MAh through out presumably and not mixed? I'm confused with the 'matched' bit?

Thanks in advance

[94eg!]

All packs should be built from cells of the same brand & mah rating (otherwise BOOM!!!). Matching specifically means that each individual cell has been cycled (charged & discharged) under labratory condtiions and checked for the following performance specs:

- Average Voltage (down to a specific voltage cutoff)

- Runtime in seconds (down to a specific voltage cutoff)

- Internal resistance in mili-ohms (checked after full discharge)

Each cell then gets a label attached with these performance specs as well as the test conditions printed on it. Then cells with similar performance properties are grouped together and sold as "matched" packs. This allows max performance througout the full run of the pack.

Obviously the better performing packs with higher voltage, longer runtime and lower internal resistance will be more expensive. In fact, the cells with the absolute best characteristics are not even for sale. They are given to the team drivers to help get an edge against other top-level competitors. Well I wouldn't say an edge since everyone at top-level would have had similar performing cells...

Test condition specs you will find on the cell labels:

- Charge amperage (usuallay between 5 - 7 amps)

- Discharge amperage (35amps is current industry standard)

- Runout (I don't know what this is, but 5000 is standard)

- Voltage Cutoff (typically 0.9v is when the test is shutdown)

[Sideways-King]

All packs should be built from cells of the same brand & mah rating (otherwise BOOM!!!). Matching specifically means that each individual cell has been cycled (charged & discharged) under labratory condtiions and checked for the following performance specs:

- Average Voltage (down to a specific voltage cutoff)

- Runtime in seconds (down to a specific voltage cutoff)

- Internal resistance in mili-ohms (checked after full discharge)

Each cell then gets a label attached with these performance specs as well as the test conditions printed on it. Then cells with similar performance properties are grouped together and sold as "matched" packs. This allows max performance througout the full run of the pack.

Obviously the better performing packs with higher voltage, longer runtime and lower internal resistance will be more expensive. In fact, the cells with the absolute best characteristics are not even for sale. They are given to the team drivers to help get an edge against other top-level competitors. Well I wouldn't say an edge since everyone at top-level would have had similar performing cells...

Test condition specs you will find on the cell labels:

- Charge amperage (usuallay between 5 - 7 amps)

- Discharge amperage (35amps is current industry standard)

- Runout (I don't know what this is, but 5000 is standard)

- Voltage Cutoff (typically 0.9v is when the test is shutdown)

Perfect 94eg! many thanks for that.