4wd (vintage Vs. New)

[legarto 0]

I remember reading a comment on here about how 4wd drive cars have really improved since the 80s. I am very familiar with both the old chain drive cars (like the Optimas) and somewhat with the shaft-driven (like the HotShots). What are the newer 4wds like designwise? Thanks for your replies.

[terry.sc 16]

Predator X11

JConcepts BJ4

Yokomo MR4BX

Tamiya TRF501X

Associated B44

Hot Bodies D4

Kyosho Lazer ZX-5

Schumacher CAT SX

That should cover all the main race chassis.

[legarto 0]

Thanks terry - those are great reviews. So, shaft drive has basically replaced belt drive it seems.

[Origineelreclamebord 45]

Thanks terry - those are great reviews. So, shaft drive has basically replaced belt drive it seems.

Not really. You see that today's buggies are either shaft or belt drive, chain drive and things like the 'cable' drive used for MIP 4WD conversions on SRB's were too inefficient or heavy and have been replaced. You will see that many basher or hobby level 4WD buggies use shaft drive, whereas at the top of the range buggies it differs.

Tamiya for example uses belt drive systems on all their competition level 4WD cars (except for the TB03 or TB Evo's - but these are onroad cars), Schumacher pretty much only uses belt drive (for on and offroad). For onroad cars you will mainly see that competition cars are belt drive. With offroad cars, as I stated before, it differs more. It's probably because the shaft drive and belt drive have their set of pro's and cons which means that in the end it's a personal preference (or/and that of the manufacturer) to decide what system they'll use.

Belt drive systems should be more efficient than shaft drive. There are often less gears and especially the gears that cost a lot of efficiency (the ones that are angles to connect the diffs with the main shaft). However belt drive systems are more vulnerable in general and especially for dirt. The belts need to be at the right tension etc etc, so it needs more work.

I also read once that belt drives add a sling shot effect to the car and people either love it or hate it. I haven't got a belt drive car (yet) to compare it, but if it's true people will really choose the kind of drive according to their personal preference.

[Mr. ED 5]

The predator X11 is a bit dubious I think. The foundations of that car are almost as old as the optima and hotshot. But read on before reacting.

Some of the newer design drivetrain designs also are pretty close to the likes of the yz-10 dogfighter and somewhat obscure stuff like the yankee electra, incident (rcw?), TAG coyote. Fine examples can be found in the showrooms here.

Ofcourse the resemblance is only on the surface. A lot improvement is found in elements far less obvious in pictures: like material improvements and production precision.

With stuff like final elements simulations etc weak points in a design can be found before the first piece is ever prototyped. small things like an extra mm in a radius can make a huge difference in this field.

And let's not forget suspension geometry improvements and todays combos of durable true wheels, soft high grip tires with efficient patterns and optimised tire inserts.

[highflyer 73]

So, shaft drive has basically replaced belt drive it seems.

Depends on the company. AE has had alot of success (World championships) with the shaft TC3 touring car and BJ4 (not AE but is AE ), and now the B44 that just Won the worlds - Shaft.. Take a look at Tamiya (3 Worlds TC championships), go in the same direction as the 414M, 415 and 416 touring machines with the 501X and 511X now, all are belt driven. Compaines stick to what they think is best while putting out a product that is top of the line for the consumer, and team racers..

[legarto 0]

great replies - wealth of knowledge here, thanks

[Mr. ED 5]

As long as we are talking race level cars, a huge improvement has been made on steering geometry also. Especially on the way it interacts with the suspension movement.

You won't see bumpsteer like on the hotoshot on any of the new racers cars.

[fabolousRC 0]

Depends on the company. AE has had alot of success (World championships) with the shaft TC3 touring car and BJ4 (not AE but is AE ), and now the B44 that just Won the worlds - Shaft.. Take a look at Tamiya (3 Worlds TC championships), go in the same direction as the 414M, 415 and 416 touring machines with the 501X and 511X now, all are belt driven. Compaines stick to what they think is best while putting out a product that is top of the line for the consumer, and team racers..

TC3 has never won Worlds. It only has won Reedy Race of Champions...a lot.