Bad Trade/scam

[Origineelreclamebord]

I don't know if it's in the right part of the forum, if it's not please move the topic

A week ago I won a car (TA03R) on the german ebay, and I thought I got myself a car for a reasonable price. Because the payment by ebay was only by bank transaction, I asked if I could pay by paypal. So I payed by paypal, he sent the car and thursday it arrived. When I saw it I immediately spotted damage and after disassembling the whole chassis this looks like the worst condition car I have ever seen.

The seller stated in the auction it has had 5 runs from new - but from various things I can see it's had more than 5 runs. I also have the feeling it's built from several cars because for example the top plate is carbon whilst the lower plate is FRP He didn't mention the damage in the description or the state the car was in, only that it has had 5 runs. If I would find a small amount of damage it's no problem, but I made a list of parts that need replacement and buying a donor car (or a different car altogether to run) is cheaper than buying the parts to restore it. If I see that amount of damage I think the car doesn't correspond to the description and I feel like I've been scammed.

I tried contacting the seller and I haven't received a reply yet. If I don't get a reply soon I will try once more, but what should I do if he doesn't reply or doesn't want to solve this problem?

[ukzz4iroc]

I would say threaten to leave negative feedback unless he gives you a partial refund or our money back. If he still doesn't raise a complaint through PayPal. I did this before and it got to the stage where PayPal said to send the car back at my expense and once it was delivered would get a full refund. I didn't want to do this because of the postage cost so ended up re-selling it with an accurate description. Good luck

[qatmix]

I would say threaten to leave negative feedback unless he gives you a partial refund or our money back. If he still doesn't raise a complaint through PayPal. I did this before and it got to the stage where PayPal said to send the car back at my expense and once it was delivered would get a full refund. I didn't want to do this because of the postage cost so ended up re-selling it with an accurate description. Good luck

Theres not alot you can do, ultimately things are sold as seen on ebay. If the guy states it is mint, then you could have a comeback. It may have had 5 runs only.. who knows what the runs were that he made in the car.

also people on this forum (myself included) have quite high standards... much more than most people who buy rc cars. I bet the average Joe would have been fine with the car and would have bought it and ran it.

I'm not being harsh, i've been there myself and been gutted, but that how things go.

[Origineelreclamebord]

Theres not alot you can do, ultimately things are sold as seen on ebay. If the guy states it is mint, then you could have a comeback. It may have had 5 runs only.. who knows what the runs were that he made in the car.

also people on this forum (myself included) have quite high standards... much more than most people who buy rc cars. I bet the average Joe would have been fine with the car and would have bought it and ran it.

I'm not being harsh, i've been there myself and been gutted, but that how things go.

Well the average Joe wouldn't have run it... The left front end has the worst damage I've ever seen (looks like it was close to be completely torn off in a crash). I guess it would run better without the left front end... A TA03 Reliant Robin maybe? As I mentioned, a bit of damage wouldn't have been an issue - but it's a porker.

Anyway, I know everything on ebay is sold as is... However the description doesn't match the car (FRP instead of carbon lower plate) so if I have to, I'll become nitpicky.

I would say threaten to leave negative feedback unless he gives you a partial refund or our money back. If he still doesn't raise a complaint through PayPal. I did this before and it got to the stage where PayPal said to send the car back at my expense and once it was delivered would get a full refund. I didn't want to do this because of the postage cost so ended up re-selling it with an accurate description. Good luck

It's indeed sad you would have to pay the postage costs in that case. And it involves a risk - what if the seller won't confirm the package arrived at him again?

And threathening with negative feedback is a way... Although you can expect negative back (or nowadays the lowest the seller can give back as feedback is neutral?) - even if you made the payment quickly and were neat with the purchase of the car.

[28yoKid]

I'd write to the seller explaining that the description given does not add up to the product received. I would then let him know that you would like to return the car to the seller for a full refund (less carriage). If you get no response, then make a claim via paypal. I have made claims via paypal for things not turning up. Even if the seller does not respond to paypal, they may still find in your favour and refund you the money. I know this is a grey area as to whether the ad was misleading, but if you feel like you have been done then you should try and put things straight, or at least raise a bit of badword as a warning to sellers like this.

Best of Luck!

28

[ukzz4iroc]

If you provide Paypal with proof of postage then I believe it is irrelevant if he gets it back or not

Never be scared to leave negative feedback- in fact he can't leave you negative under newish ebay rules

[WillyChang]

don't take it the wrong way... but not sure if i'd call it a "scam" though

original thread here http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=49595 suggesting you were expecting a "TRF" ??!

at least you RECEIVED something, not just paidup & saw nothing arrive (=SCAM imho)

As for bad trade... well for that price i wouldn't be expecting much tbh.... i don't read german but there ain't much description really.

Notice the CLK (title) vs SLK (lower text) anomaly? We did say it looked like a bitzer in your original thread too.

i'll embarassingly admit:-

A) i bought a "PRO" TA03 for more than twice what you paid, when it arrived it was totally cobbled up from odd bits too;

none of the bits were ultimately usable... Paypal is useless to claim against for "wrong description" as they only care about "delivery".

(Seller was nice, admitted ignorance & sent me some extra 'worthless' goodies to buy my silence - meh, i just wanted closure)

real carbon plates for a TA03F... commonly a NIB set alone is worth 2x what you paid for that auction

How about posting up some pics? let's see what the real damage is

[Origineelreclamebord]

don't take it the wrong way... but not sure if i'd call it a "scam" though

original thread here http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=49595 suggesting you were expecting a "TRF" ??!

at least you RECEIVED something, not just paidup & saw nothing arrive (=SCAM imho)

As for bad trade... well for that price i wouldn't be expecting much tbh.... i don't read german but there ain't much description really.

Notice the CLK (title) vs SLK (lower text) anomaly? We did say it looked like a bitzer in your original thread too.

i'll embarassingly admit:-

A) i bought a "PRO" TA03 for more than twice what you paid, when it arrived it was totally cobbled up from odd bits too;

none of the bits were ultimately usable... Paypal is useless to claim against for "wrong description" as they only care about "delivery".

(Seller was nice, admitted ignorance & sent me some extra 'worthless' goodies to buy my silence - meh, i just wanted closure)

real carbon plates for a TA03F... commonly a NIB set alone is worth 2x what you paid for that auction

How about posting up some pics? let's see what the real damage is

I wasn't saying I expected a TRF - the question was about the chassis plates - since they were claimed to be the carbon TA03R ones (and therefor like on the TA03TRF) - I was expecting a TA03 with carbon or FRP plates in reasonable condition (since it only had 5 runs according to the seller). Different colours and a few parts from different cars are no problem to me, neither are one or two broken parts, but if the description doesn't say that the gearboxes need a replacement and the whole left front end is smashed (but still on) to me is quite sloppy and so are some other things.

As for the prices you bought other TA03 items for... The German bay is relatively cheap, closer to the Netherlands than many other sellers and luckily I can read a bit of German. I wouldn't say I can't do anything with the car and I wasted all my money - but it's a big disappointment to notice you will have to replace pretty much everything apart from the drive belt and the main chassis. I'll show some pictures once I have the time to make them.

Anyway, with a bit of luck I won't need to contact paypal. I just want to be ready to take action if I do need to. Luckily the seller replied today and I think I can discuss a refund with him. I'll let you know what comes out of it.

[taliesin]

I got a totally lame car once that did not even come close to matching the description. I contacted the seller through ebay with a polite but very firmly worded message that said i would send the car back at my expense and he would refund my money without argument. If he complied, then we could forget about it with no hard feelings and no negative feedback. The package would arrive with a confirmation number and if he didn't refund my money to paypal immediately upon receipt I would certainly leave negative feedback and be able to prove that he had both my money and the item - ebay and paypal really take notice of that combination. The risk was that I would have no car and no refund and be out the shipping - at least until I won the dispute and/or canceled the credit card transaction through my credit card company. Ebay/paypal really take notice when they get a chargeback and they then, and only then it seems, begin to care about getting the money back from the wrong-doer. I wasn't bluffing either. I was ready to carry through because I had already been scammed and found the car totally worthless, so all I had to lose [other than the original price + shipping which was already gone by then...] was return shipping.

The guy gave me a nasty reply telling me to go hang; I replied by sending him the confirmation number because it was shipped 30 minutes after I first contacted him. I had hit the send button on the email and immediately re-boxed the rubbish and drove straight to the post office with it. Two days later I got the confirmation number that it was delivered. I emailed him and told him he had until the end of the day to show the money was posted to paypal before the negative feedback hit and the chargeback and dispute were initiated. He sent me another snipe-0-gram to which I did not reply to other than a brief message: "Tick-Tock".

A few minutes later my email account notified me of a paypal refund and I sent him an email that said "thank you for being reasonable". Never heard any more from him and I did not leave negative feedback. I suppose he flogged his rubbish to some other poor fool, but I gave my word, so I kept it.

You can try something similar, but you must take the risk. The "by the rules" dispute / refund guarantee through ebay / paypal isn't worth the breath it takes to curse it, so don't bother. The chargeback and negative feedback are the only real tools you have, so use them if you have to.

Good luck and I'm sorry you had trouble. Its a real bummer after dealing with such cool people here on TC to find that not everybody is so decent on the fleabay. Still, there are plenty of good folks out there and only a few nasty ones.

[Tamiya1/10]

Ebay can be very good and can be very bad. I always ask the following questions regardless if there are lots of pictures

1) any parts damaged

2) any parts repaired

3) any parts missing

4) any parts worn out

5) the condition of the rubber - like dry out, rotted, cracks etc...

And I would inform the seller that I am a collector and would appreciate his honest opinion by rating his RC between 1 to 10.

So far, knock on wood, all my transactions are OK, but I know is a matter of time before I will get burn. I generally stay with good feed back sellers, read into the discription and try to gauge seller reply if he only has few feedback.

As for the seller stating only 5 runs. It could be hard to disproof there were more than 5 runs as the RC operator could be visual impaired or under the influence during those 5 runs.

I know is very disappointing when is not to your expectation and hope between you and the seller will work things out.

[Origineelreclamebord]

Thanks for your advice The seller replied today that he will send back 20 euros at the end of the week. I will see if it arrives, but I assume it will.

I'm happy with this solution. It will cover a part of the restoration/repairs (just below half my estimated costs) and I won't have to send it back (which would have meant the total postage costs of posting it to me and back are the same as my estimated costs for the restoration itself, which is highly unpractical).

Because I now know I will restore the car and there should be no further issues, I can finally start restoring the whole car. During this I will come along all the damaged parts (which are mixed with the working ones at the moment) and I think I'll start a topic of the restoration in another topic...