Looking for a decent vintage rc model...

[Gilberto the great]

I've been looking on ebay (again!) and noticed a kyosho Optima - my first ever rc car[|)] and all of a sudden have become quite nostaglic about it. All my models are modern and therefore I'm looking for an oldie buggy for a bit of nostalgia and fun. It needs to be a fairly decent handler[]

But... before I take the plunge what vintage model would you recommend[?]. I appreciate the Optima isn't a Tamiya so I'm also thinking about a Hornet (either vintage or re-release) - but what is better - a Hornet, Grasshopper, Holiday buggy etc... Any ideas would be most welcome.

[hornet69]

Well Between the Hornet and the Grasshopper, I would say go with the Hornet, the Grasshopper is basically a Hornet with a smaller motor and a different body, Hornet runs a 540, the Grasshopper runs a 300 series motor. I have a Hornet and it is immense fun.

[Gilberto the great]

Thanks hornet69. I must admit my preference at the moment is the Optima but if I do go for a Tamiya I'm swaying towards the Hornet for ease of spares etc.

Does anyone have a Optima?, my memories are good but is my judgement clouded or is it really a good classic car?.

[miramar]

The Optima was a great car for its time that made a big impact on the racing community. Good reasons it should definately be considered a classic and important part of RC-car history. Even by today's standards, handling and drivetrain efficiency are quite good.

However, the dampers are underdimensioned and the chaindrive isn't very durable. A belt drive conversion kit was launched from Kyosho (I think in 1987, along with the beltdrive Optima Pro), but I have no idea about availability of this kit now. Some parts of the drivetrain (including the chain) was beefed up in the Turbo Optima and Salute, and if I recall correctly, these parts are direct "bolt-ins" in the Optima/Javelin as well.

As for dampers, I had 1/8 Kyosho (red alu) dampers on an Optima I ran for a few races, and it worked wonders, so a set of modern "large volume" 1/10-dampers should do just fine.

Also, damage to the area between the lower front edge of the rear gearbox housing and the rear portion of the lower chain "casing" was often damaged, causing debris to enter the drivetrain. A selfmade lexan shield was an easy and inexpensive cure.

As for Optima vs. Hornet, they are really "apples and oranges", but as vintage runners, I guess they can be compared anyway?! [] The Hornet would by far be the cheaper and easier option. Parts are easily available now (with the re-re) and maintenance very limited. Driving the Optima is on the other much more rewarding as it handles so much better.

[Tipsy]

Hi Gilberto,

I have a few Optimas now. Got the Optima, Salute, Javelin and Turbo Optima all new built. I also have nearly every part to build up another Optima, and am just waiting on a body shell to arrive so can start that.

Have a look in my showroom, you will find lots of the older kyosho kits (both new built and NIB), as I have recently had a tendency to venture to the 'Kyosho side' due to the fact that in the '80's Kyosho built kits with metal components, that felt tough and really well put together. I would highly recommend a restore on one, but parts are pricey, and many difficult to get hold of. For a great restore, the Optima is a definite good one. I also used to race them back in the '80's too, and loved the way they handled.

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.a...d=11473&id=1532

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.a...d=24904&id=1532

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.a...d=22870&id=1532

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.a...d=25790&id=1532

[terry.sc]

For a classic runner the Hornet/Grasshopper is an easy option with readily available spares, but I love my Kyoshos. If you are looking for something that handles well I wouldn't even think of the Hornet. Just because an Optima is not Tamiya does not mean its not a vintage classic. I'm a racer at heart so there are few Tamiyas I'm interested in. Here's my runner Optima

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.a...d=297&cid=21294

At the time of the original Optima there was nothing that could handle like it. An RC10 could better it on high grip tracks but nothing could touch it on loose surfaces. They handled well then and still do. They amke a great runner, much more rewarding to drive than any of Tamiyas mids equivalents. They were built for racing so the parts are very high quality and well engineered. A worn example now will usually have less free play than the Hotshot did when it was new.

The chain drive did have durability problems at first, but later cars had a beefed up chain that should be in all cars you should find. The new chain is very durable and is indestructable. The belt drive was never available in a kit but was a quite common upgrade and many cars have it fitted. Parts for it regularly appear on ebay.

The original red shocks were pretty good at the time of the first release, but the Kyosho Option House gold and platinum shocks are so much better. Associated shocks were also used as they are a direct fit, most modern shocks will also fit straight on. If you buy a runner Optima and it has the original red shocks replace them with modern 3" and 4" buggy shocks and sell the red ones.

Quite often the lower chain guard is damaged or missing, it's a soft plastic and took most the the impact on landing from jumps. A chain guard set is expensive and difficult to get hold of but there is a metal lower chassis guard which protects the underside and shields the chain. A scratched one for a runner goes for very little. Alternatively an Optima Pro body and undertray from Kamtec will protect the chain, I use an old Optima Pro body on my runner and it offers more than enough protection for the belt drive I have fitted.

That covers all the bad points.

Spares are easy to get hold of compared with other cars of the time. The rear gearbox was used in the ultima and several later 'large scale' touring cars so they were around a long time, the suspension was carried over to the Mid version so there are plenty of spare wishbones around. Both my local model shops still have a stock of old Kyosho parts tucked away that they try to sell to me, but the cars are as durable as ever so I don't feel a need to stock up on the spares 'just in case'. The only part I have broken on my Optimas was an original front wishbone, it broke where an extra hole had been drilled to relocate the shock absorber, so giving it a weak spot that wasn't there originally. Its my fault it broke, not Kyoshos.

If you are tempted by the Optima a restored car can be expensive but if you just want a runner they can go cheap on ebay. There aren't many people interested in them so very few people bid on them. Avoid ones with missing chassis parts as some bits are hard to find. Watch out for the cheap copies such as the Beagle, fairly easy to spot though as the chassis side plates and shock mounts are a different shape to the Kyosho ones. Shocks are quite often missing but most modern ones will fit on fine. It was also the first car that had the hex drive that everyone uses these days so modern wheels will also fit straight on.

[Gilberto the great]

Thanks Guys, very interesting info and I love the pics (Thanks terry.sc & Tipsy). I also appreciate your comments - I remember the Optima being a fantastic car, and trashed my mates Hornets all those years ago...but couldn't remember whether my memories were just playing tricks or if it was a good un. Your comments confirm I'm not totally mad (At least not yet)

I already have a few runners (Wild Dagger, Rising Storm & TNX) so feel I would probably prefer to go for the Optima for something special, will keep a look out on ebay as I've seen them come and go on a fairly regular basis. Who knows, with a bit of luck I may well end up with one in my showroom before too long.