Ta05ms Vs Trf415 (or 416 Now)

[Chain Driven]

Hi guys,

This a question for the racers, why does Tamiya have those 2 chassis in it's lineup?

Prices seem to be close if not equal when you look at TamiyaUSA (although the TA05MS is now didscounted) so which one to buy and why?

I could understand about the TB Evo as some drivers prefer shaft driven to belt driven cars.

Thanks!

Jerome

[94eg!]

The 416 and 416WE are way ahead of the TA05MS. The 416 has a more updated suspension and drivetrain. Larger pullies more diff balls and larger wheel bearings all make the car more durable than the older reversible suspenison cars (TRF415 MSXXxxx and TA05MS). The 416WE even has the short suspension which is the current standard for all new Tamiya toruing cars.

If your looking for a deal, get yourself a TRF415 MSXX MRE. It's only $310 on Tamiya USA and only one step back from the 416 (two steps from the 416 worlds edition). Also it's rearward mounted motor and full hop-ups make it way more capable than the TA05MS. Depending on what type of racing you do, you may need to purchase a front-diff or a front one-way for it (it comes with a spool). The only real downside to the MSXX MRE is that it requires side-by-side cell packs. You must modify the bulkhead to run stickpacks or lipo. It's not difficult and I did this with my dremel and a sanding drum...

http://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/...f-415-msxx.html

The TA05MS was an effort to recoup the cost of the 25th anniversary porche. The chassis is identical except for the longer wheelbase which more suitable for racing. The center mounted motor of the entire TA05 is meant to reduce cost and make the car more mild to drive for beginners. Unfortunately it also makes the car considerably wider cause the center layshaft is now in the way of the battery. This forces you to run a slightly higher ride height to keep from dragging the chassis and scrubbing speed in the corners.

[Chain Driven]

Thanks for the perfect explanation!

All the best

J.

[yamita]

It all depends on what class and surface you will race on. 05ms with central motor position is better suited for stock class and the 415 is better suited for mod class. The 415 has the motor mounted with rear weight bias. On 416, motor position was changed to even more rearward for better rear grip with high torque brushless mod motors. 41X and 05ms have different flex characteristic also. 05ms is much stiffer than the 41X series, so may be better suited for indoor carpet.

[94eg!]

It all depends on what class and surface you will race on. 05ms with central motor position is better suited for stock class and the 415 is better suited for mod class. The 415 has the motor mounted with rear weight bias. On 416, motor position was changed to even more rearward for better rear grip with high torque brushless mod motors. 41X and 05ms have different flex characteristic also. 05ms is much stiffer than the 41X series, so may be better suited for indoor carpet.

I don't think the 05MS excelles on any particular surface. It's never been the choice for any of the top drivers, and it's never won any sort of championship. That could be because TRF drivers ONLY run MOD though, so there are no Tamiya sponsored drivers in stock. Either way, the MSXX MRE 07 is pretty darn good and several hundred dollars cheaper (from TamiyaUSA).

And at our local races (27T asphalt parking-lot), the quickest driver runs a 416 worlds edition...

BTW: If you do get a 415 MSXX MRE 07, do NOT install the screw & 1mm spacer directly under the motor mount. Leaving these out will allow perfectly even flex left to right...

[terry.sc]

The TA05MS uses the same suspension parts as the TRF415MSXX which was also available at the time of it's release. The more central motor location and the few millimetres wider chassis with the battery pack slightly further out makes the TA05MS easier to drive at high speed than the TRF cars, although the TRFs will have better traction out of corners with high power motors thanks to the rear mounted motor. Neither car is 'better' than the other, but different. Unfortunately not many people have the money to buy and compare both cars to see which one is actually best for them, all the fast guys will simply shun the TA05MS purely because it's name doesn't start with 'TRF'.

It's never been the choice for any of the top drivers, and it's never won any sort of championship.

Neither has the Xray T2, associated TC5 or Corally RDX, yet they are the choice of many fast drivers out there. We all know that at the top level the cars are so equal whether they win a big championship is entirely down to the driver.

As a similar comparison, Andy Moore ran the Hot bodies Cyclone S, the 'cheap plastic' version of his Worlds winning car. He found the Cyclone S could run a race within seconds of what he could do with the top spec version costing over twice the price. Of course no fast racer would want to be seen running a car that isn't the top spec version even though the cheap car would be just as fast.

[Backlash]

It's never been the choice for any of the top drivers, and it's never won any sort of championship.

Neither has the Xray T2, associated TC5 or Corally RDX, yet they are the choice of many fast drivers out there.

What exactly do you consider to be a champoinship???

There are more Championships run out there other than the Ifmar Worlds??

[94eg!]

What exactly do you consider to be a champoinship???

Well..... I guess any race that the TA05MS didn't win...

[yamita]

You answered your own question. How many pro drivers race stock? In the states, mod racing isn't popular at all. Many people raced the 05ms in california with good results. It's proven that you can throw the 05ms into corners better than 415's in stock class. Even the porsche isnt so bad on the track, without specialized raced shell. 415 and 416 have pro-setups you can copy, but 05ms never had that kind of support. Same with shaft drive evo's.

On local stock race level, they're all capable. You just need to test and develop the optimal settings. At a local track, everybody copies a losi sponsored driver and drive losi cars. Nobody even considers trying out other cars and finding out setups for themselves. Of course the proven 415msxx mre is a better deal at $300 new. I have one myself. They're all great cars. I would go with a car with best parts support. 416we is simply too expensive and overkill for stock races.

I have to admit, when I changed over to 415msxx from evo4, I had immediate improvement on laptimes. May be due to smoother belt drive, or better setup straight out of the box, since I drove the evo4 mostly in stock setup.

I don't think the 05MS excelles on any particular surface. It's never been the choice for any of the top drivers, and it's never won any sort of championship. That could be because TRF drivers ONLY run MOD though, so there are no Tamiya sponsored drivers in stock. Either way, the MSXX MRE 07 is pretty darn good and several hundred dollars cheaper (from TamiyaUSA).

And at our local races (27T asphalt parking-lot), the quickest driver runs a 416 worlds edition...

BTW: If you do get a 415 MSXX MRE 07, do NOT install the screw & 1mm spacer directly under the motor mount. Leaving these out will allow perfectly even flex left to right...

[yamita]

Wasnt there a local Jpns kid who whooped everybody with a tub 05 at tamiya japan championship? I'm guilty of chassis snobbery myself, but can't win anything...

As a similar comparison, Andy Moore ran the Hot bodies Cyclone S, the 'cheap plastic' version of his Worlds winning car. He found the Cyclone S could run a race within seconds of what he could do with the top spec version costing over twice the price. Of course no fast racer would want to be seen running a car that isn't the top spec version even though the cheap car would be just as fast.

[qatmix]

The Ta05ms won the reedy indoor championships Appar.

Its a good car, the turn in is great and it does excel on tight indoor carpet over the trf416 (which has too much flex). Also its compatable with the suspension system of all the later trfs (the 416 was still the std lightweight suspension like the msxx and ta05ms, but with larger hubs to run a bigger bearing). The trf416we has the new shorter suspension set.

There are trf driver set-ups for the ta05ms on their website. It is classed as a trf car as it was developed by TRF. Its still a popular car in japan because of its supremecy with stock motors and tight indoor surfaces.

I wouldnt buy a trf416 at the moment as I race on a small indoor circuit (and the car goes well) so even though I keep pondering buying one I just dont need one.

[qatmix]

The TA05MS was an effort to recoup the cost of the 25th anniversary porche. The chassis is identical except for the longer wheelbase which more suitable for racing. The center mounted motor of the entire TA05 is meant to reduce cost and make the car more mild to drive for beginners. Unfortunately it also makes the car considerably wider cause the center layshaft is now in the way of the battery. This forces you to run a slightly higher ride height to keep from dragging the chassis and scrubbing speed in the corners.

I have a ride height of 4mm front and 5mm back and dont scrub corners, so unless you are running really soft suspension there is no way it will scrub.

BTW the whole point of the anniversery porche was that it was a special trf designed chassis, the porche got the short wheelbase variant, and then TRF released the std wheelbase later to not steel the thunder of the porche.

[94eg!]

Good info. It's nice to get some real world feedback on this car. I guess I'll stop knocking it...

[yamita]

the evo5 ms looks pretty good too...

Good info. It's nice to get some real world feedback on this car. I guess I'll stop knocking it...

[tpsolid]

Anyone know what wheelbase adjustments can be done on the 415 MRE? Is it possible to get 251mm ?

[yamita]

Probably only down 255 at most, but you can add inboard toe to angle the arms further and get shorter wheelbase.

[WillyChang]

can a TA05 really go to 251mm?

tag on the bag of Countach bodyset says it can

[tpsolid]

415mre is pretty tempting.. I do have a porsche gt3 body and no chassis to go with it..

[terry.sc]

Anyone know what wheelbase adjustments can be done on the 415 MRE? Is it possible to get 251mm ?

If it doesn't as standard I'm sure it will after 5 minutes with a junior hacksaw or sanding drum in a Dremel, and add a few washers.

[tpsolid]

If it doesn't as standard I'm sure it will after 5 minutes with a junior hacksaw or sanding drum in a Dremel, and add a few washers.

alright im gonna order it from tamusa tongiht

[L8apex]

can a TA05 really go to 251mm?

tag on the bag of Countach bodyset says it can

Yes it can. I'm using a BMW Z4M body right now on my TA05 and it fits the wheelwells perfect. I installed the A3 and A4 spacers ahead of the front arms and behind the rear arms. I found that wasn't quite enough though so I played with my aluminum suspension mounts.

I found that a 1D mount at the rear suspension with standard 1As at the other three will give me 251mm. But I didn't like driving with that much toe-in (+1.5) so I used a 1C mount at the front suspension and 1As athe the other three. Then I just dial out the front toe with turnbuckles. Hope this makes sense...

[yamita]

Toe in helps with straight line stability. Try it out.

[L8apex]

Toe in helps with straight line stability. Try it out.

I have, +1.5 is too much i think. I like to run as little toe as possible as it causes drag. I'd rather gain back some stability with springs/dampers without compromising drag v. efficiency.

[94eg!]

with zero toe you loose stability due to the unavoidable play in the suspension. Any amount of toe causes the thrust forces to take up that slack at all times.