58441 Rough Rider "Buggy Champ" Re-release

[Badboy 94]

From the box:

This car needs speed!

Jon.

Ahhhh... You got me!!!

Badboy

[loaded 4]

All Tamiya assembly kit cars say high performance. It means very little :-)

I agree with Badboy, these cars need regular silver cans and old style servos and I would even say half the fun is that they don't have a differential. After all, who wants good handling? What we want is grip on loose surfaces!

Paul.

[Thermionic 0]

Hi guys,

Live Steam Mad -

Thanks for the info on the soldering I hate the modern lead lead-free stuff.

Ah, I paid rather more than you for the Novak though perhaps mine is shiny new. I haven’t yet found any simple guide regarding the options (brake freq., dead band, min. brake etc) as what comes in the box is not that informative. A lot of the settings seem the same between profiles and I expect some trial and error is needed before I get my head round the real differences (currently using profile 6).

Thanks for the info on the Nosram, perhaps for the next car.

Oh well on the motor, but it was interesting getting the Orion in and it’s all done and working pretty well now. Perhaps not a beautiful thing but that motor cover was machined from delrin stock to fit motor and casing exactly, it‘s much stronger than the Taniya moulding and should keep the scenery out.

My GTX came out of the box with a heat sink (but perhaps still too small for extended running in the BC). It seems to be directly bonded to the mosfet output pcb with a white conductive glue.

Well it’s a nice little switch and I am thinking of doing something for the cooling where the Tamiya one went.

Good point on the diode. I have in mind just swapping the output leads of the esc to the motor using something like a servo with some low resistance switching on it. A bit like the mechanical speed controller of old. I believe they do such things for boats but they look a bit current limited. The Spektrum has a third aux channel, so to reverse you would switch to aux on the handset, turn the steering wheel and then a dab of throttle - or something like that. - the fun would be in engineering it. No good for handbrake turns, just backing off objects perhaps.

Badboy / Loaded - you are of course quite right, but I like to play.

Cheers,

T

[Live Steam Mad 17]

Good point on the diode. I have in mind just swapping the output leads of the esc to the motor using something like a servo with some low resistance switching on it. A bit like the mechanical speed controller of old. I believe they do such things for boats but they look a bit current limited. The Spektrum has a third aux channel, so to reverse you would switch to aux on the handset, turn the steering wheel and then a dab of throttle - or something like that. - the fun would be in engineering it. No good for handbrake turns, just backing off objects perhaps.

Are you using a Schottky diode at all at the moment on the motor?

Regards,

ARG.

[Badboy 94]

Hi guys,

Badboy / Loaded - you are of course quite right, but I like to play.

Cheers,

T

Go and play bro´!!!

Badboy

[Thermionic 0]

Are you using a Schottky diode at all at the moment on the motor?

Regards,

ARG.

No, apparently as the GTX has a 36A one built in and 'does not require an external one under most conditions' = heavy braking lap after lap or low turn modified motors.

T

[Live Steam Mad 17]

No, apparently as the GTX has a 36A one built in and 'does not require an external one under most conditions' = heavy braking lap after lap or low turn modified motors.

T

Understood. Mine used an inline one, but I added another on the motor to be safe as recommended by Novak as my TF got hammered around a track or two.

In that case even with the inline built in one, it's still a Schottky, and still effectively wired across the motor output wires I think, so will DESTROY any speed controller that you wire up to reverse the motor.

Regards,

Alistair G.

[terry.sc 16]

In that case even with the inline built in one, it's still a Schottky, and still effectively wired across the motor output wires I think, so will DESTROY any speed controller that you wire up to reverse the motor.

If it's built in it's got to be a forwards only ESC so you'll never select reverse with it.

From experience I have yet to "DESTROY" an ESC thanks to shorting out a Schottky diode. The diodes do tend to smell a lot, crackle and even explode, but I have yet to damage an ESC when I have selected reverse when it's wired up to a motor with a schottky diode attached. Got through plenty of Schottkys though.

If only I could find an ESC of the double tap (see above) type which had similar brakes!

If you want an ESC with double pump reverse have a look at the Traxxas XL5 and XL10 and Futaba MC330CR. Most ESCs either switch from braking to reverse, but a lot will only select reverse when the car stops moving forwards, as there should be no reason for you to still hold the brake on once it's stopped.

[redzone 212]

Thanks, any chance of giving me a bit more detail on these? A link to somewhere perhaps?

well the shocks you buy from asiatees, and the eyelets for the front shocks you buy from ebay item number 110410045825

front shocks:

http://www.asiatees.com/display.php?id=239&brand=Team Losi&model=Mini-T&pid=1

rear shocks:

http://www.asiatees.com/display.php?id=286...=TA01&pid=1

its then just a case of arranging spacers to get the shocks mounted properly i can post a pic of my scorcher if you like

[Thermionic 0]

Understood. Mine used an inline one, but I added another on the motor to be safe as recommended by Novak as my TF got hammered around a track or two.

In that case even with the inline built in one, it's still a Schottky, and still effectively wired across the motor output wires I think, so will DESTROY any speed controller that you wire up to reverse the motor.

Regards,

Alistair G.

Yes, sure of course you will trash the GTX if connecting it in reverse to another esc. What I have in mind is to take the motor wires from the Novak and put them into some form of change-over switch operated by a servo (and after any additional diodes). So that the pos. and neg. wires can be swapped over before they connect to the motor (the esc doesn’t mind which way round the motor is). The switch would have to have break-before-make contacts of low resistance, but providing the esc is in neutral when the change over switching takes place I doubt it will be damaged. But it’s only something to ponder about as I get used to the current set up.

Reverse is for wimps!

T

[hedge 314]

Reverse is for wimps!

LOL spoken like a true racer

[loaded 4]

Reverse is for wimps and parking.

Now where is that tongue in cheek smiley ;-)

Paul.

PS : Oh and handbrake turns!

I thought I said that

:-)

P.

[Live Steam Mad 17]

If it's built in it's got to be a forwards only ESC so you'll never select reverse with it.

From experience I have yet to "DESTROY" an ESC thanks to shorting out a Schottky diode. The diodes do tend to smell a lot, crackle and even explode, but I have yet to damage an ESC when I have selected reverse when it's wired up to a motor with a schottky diode attached. Got through plenty of Schottkys though.

If you want an ESC with double pump reverse have a look at the Traxxas XL5 and XL10 and Futaba MC330CR. Most ESCs either switch from braking to reverse, but a lot will only select reverse when the car stops moving forwards, as there should be no reason for you to still hold the brake on once it's stopped.

The guy said he wanted to rig something up mechanically that would reverse the connections. Reversible ESC's have warnings in their instructions to not use Schottky diodes otherwise you'll blow them up (so it says). As you say though, maybe the diode would blow first.

Interesting on the Traxxas ESC's, I'll try and investigate those. I already have the Futaba 330, the Tamiya 302 has better brakes.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[Live Steam Mad 17]

but a lot will only select reverse when the car stops moving forwards, as there should be no reason for you to still hold the brake on once it's stopped.

Ah but I live on a hill !!! Think about it LOL!

I also have to watch out for other things too. Like runaway cars

Once I was coming home from St.Helens College for me dinner and I got up to about 3 doors away from my house on the left as I walked up our fairly steep hill with me bike on the pavement and I saw this red estate car coming directly towards me. Took me a few moments to realise that there was NO ONE IN IT Turns out the handbrake cable had snapped and the fella was used to leaving it on level ground like where everyone else lives and so never left it in gear unlike I always do and he was indoors and completely unaware that his car was driving by itself straight towards me .

The car had come from only a few doors up from my house. It ran towards me with only a very small amount of right steering, I froze in my tracks as I tried to calculate in my mind what the heck was happening, and the car mounted the pavement and smashed through concrete posts into my nextdoor neighbour's front garden. It's a miracle that I'm still here to enjoy the Rough Rider re-release at all !

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[Live Steam Mad 17]

I just remembered another hill related "problem" LOL.

On one other occasion a guy was doing some maintenance on a Mercedes Benz expensive large car near the top of the road and he wasn't used to the strange handbrake on them and he didn't catch it in time and thus another runaway car started off down the hill by itself and by the time it got to our house must have been going fairly briskly as it came from 30 doors away! It hit our Reliant Rialto 3 wheeler and shoved it eight feet down the road. The back of the Reliant was cracked everywhere (fibreglass) but the front of the Merc was a lot worse! Why was our car the one it had to hit though !

Cheers,

ARG.

[Live Steam Mad 17]

Has anyone got a Traxxas XL5 or XL10 in their RC model? I see that they are about 30 quid from USA sellers on the bay. Can't see it for sale separately in Blighty?

If so, can you please tell us what you think of the brakes on it ?

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[redzone 212]

finally ordered my own buggy champ from stella on friday

should be here by the end of the week!

[tramsnod 0]

Hi Alstair

I've used both the XL5 and XL10 on my Slash's.

The braking works really well.

There is 3 different settings for the esc. Trainer which is 50% forward and reverse and 100% brakes, sport mode is 100% everything (brakes, forward & reverse) and race mode is 100% forward and 100% reverse - no brakes.

To get from forward to reverse you do need to stop at neutral first. Brakes is just straight across.

I can run the Slash fast forward and then slam on the brakes and turn the steering and she will do a 180 degree turn and stop perfectly.

Hope this helps

Has anyone got a Traxxas XL5 or XL10 in their RC model? I see that they are about 30 quid from USA sellers on the bay. Can't see it for sale separately in Blighty?

If so, can you please tell us what you think of the brakes on it ?

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[Live Steam Mad 17]

Hi Alstair

I've used both the XL5 and XL10 on my Slash's.

The braking works really well.

There is 3 different settings for the esc. Trainer which is 50% forward and reverse and 100% brakes, sport mode is 100% everything (brakes, forward & reverse) and race mode is 100% forward and 100% reverse - no brakes.

To get from forward to reverse you do need to stop at neutral first. Brakes is just straight across.

I can run the Slash fast forward and then slam on the brakes and turn the steering and she will do a 180 degree turn and stop perfectly.

Hope this helps

Thanks.

ARG.

[Live Steam Mad 17]

One thing I don't understand about the rerelease body shell is the UK price.

The old Rough Rider body set was 2500 Yen in 1979 as the box has it printed on it, the new Buggy Champ one is 3000 Yen according to the printed label.

However the UK price in 1984 was 15 pounds for the Sand Scorcher body set, the new price is ... 40 quid ?!!?

Something tells me that The Hobby Co. Ltd. are making an unreasonable mark up , plus they have monopoly exclusive distribution rights. Surely that can't be right. I wish something could be done about it. As a result it's 40 quid (maybe more from Model Zone knowing them!) in my "L"HS.

...and please I can't believe that things have changed so much in 30 years to account for the price difference so don't hit me with "it's VAT" or "Customs Fees" or some other UK excuse... LOL

Surely Riko were better than THCL in this regard?

No wonder I have such a love / hate relationship with UK hobby shops...

I got mine for 28 USD DELIVERED [ oops , later edit: plus postage!! ] from Japan , not even 40 Dollars never mind 40 Pounds. How rediculous this situation is! .

Regards,

Alistair G.

[casethejoint 296]

I got mine for 28 USD DELIVERED from Japan , not even 40 Dollars never mind 40 Pounds. How rediculous this situation is!

I'm guessing it's something at the Tamiya end - it's almost impossible to get a Tamiya these days on eBay, other than from Hong Kong and Japanese sellers. It's almost like they've all given up.

[Live Steam Mad 17]

Hi Alstair

I've used both the XL5 and XL10 on my Slash's.

The braking works really well.

There is 3 different settings for the esc. Trainer which is 50% forward and reverse and 100% brakes, sport mode is 100% everything (brakes, forward & reverse) and race mode is 100% forward and 100% reverse - no brakes.

To get from forward to reverse you do need to stop at neutral first. Brakes is just straight across.

I can run the Slash fast forward and then slam on the brakes and turn the steering and she will do a 180 degree turn and stop perfectly.

Hope this helps

Nice to hear the the brakes are good.

Just to clarify, are you saying that, on the Traxxas XL5 and XL10 you pull back once for brakes and no way can reverse ever be activated, and then you have to move the stick back to neutral, and then pull back one more time to get reverse, just like the Tamiya TEU-101BK , Futaba MC330CR , and Tamiya TEU-302BK ?

In which case, I would like to buy one when I can afford it.

Let me know!

Cheers,

ARG.

[Live Steam Mad 17]

Also forgot to ask, is reverse proportional on the Traxxas XL5 and XL10 ? I ask because it is on the 3 ESC's that I mentioned of 101, 330, 302 , but isn't on my old Hitec controller, which ripped the tyres up!

Regards,

Ali G.

[Live Steam Mad 17]

I'm guessing it's something at the Tamiya end - it's almost impossible to get a Tamiya these days on eBay, other than from Hong Kong and Japanese sellers. It's almost like they've all given up.

Forgive my (maybe) ignorance but how can something at the Tamiya end make the UK price 40 quid when the Japanese retail price converts to 22 quid and not 40 quid? Also how come they were 15 quid in '84 and now they are 40 quid, when the Jap. retail price hasn't hardly risen at all ! Makes me sick...

Regards,

ARG.

[terry.sc 16]

One thing I don't understand about the rerelease body shell is the UK price.

The old Rough Rider body set was 2500 Yen in 1979 as the box has it printed on it, the new Buggy Champ one is 3000 Yen according to the printed label.

However the UK price in 1984 was 15 pounds for the Sand Scorcher body set, the new price is ... 40 quid ?!!?

Based on the change in average income and the value of the pound that £15 1984 price would be worth around £75 today. So in reality the body is just over half the original price.

Now comparing against the yen, which since the 80s its worth has grown considerably compared with the pound and dollar, the 2500 yen in 1980 would be about $9.50, 2500 yen today is worth $27.50. On that basis if Tamiya are conducting business in dollars while the price of materials in dollars has tripled the retail price in yen will be about the same as the 80s.

On that basis taking costs into consideration that £15 body in 1980 would sell for around £40-45 today. Now that number sounds familiar.