Photos For Re-issue Rough Rider From Shizuoka Hobby Show 09

[Alan Markie 0]

Is it my imagination, or does one of the commentators say "Sand Scorcher" at about the 34s mark ?

Hmmm...

As I heard, he is not saying "Sand Scorcher".

He is saying "SYA-SI KO-SEI", which means "Chassis Mechanism" in japanese

In japan SS called as "Wagen OffRoader".

But, I really wants to have SS again too!!!

[Origineelreclamebord 45]

Tamiya is still in business and the re-issue of XR311 and the recent re-issue trend started from the Hornet, Frog, Grasshopper tells us that any kit could be the next re-issue.

Except for maybe the Striker From what I've heard of it...

Blacque Jacque, the car indeed seems a little better steering, but since they didn't go full throttle in the video, you can't exactly tell - especially since the carpet might well be very grippy. On one hand I'm hoping for a diff, on the other hand I hope they kept it 'diffless.' However, if it does have a diff, everyone who doesn't like diffs can just lock them up (anyone have their glue guns ready for it?)

2 more close up photos.

I see it has foams to keep the LiFe battery in place? That's nice, it leaves the option of putting a hump battery in, too, or something else. And the FRP Chassis is Black, have you noticed that yet?

[TA-Mark 195]

I'm going to say it has no diff centre. When it drops the rear wheel off the side of the ramp that's as far as it would have gone if it had a diff. The wheel in the air would have just kept spinning with no drive to the one still touching the ramp.

I'll have a 2nd home-made diff ready and waiting for it when my NIB re-re arrives. After trying both sides of the coin I will take a diff everytime.

[Tamland67 1]

It looks the chassis is made of black FRP or perhaps (for stiffness) Carbon?? Would mean a transition towards trhe 21st century for the ReRR

Can wait to hget me one ... or 2

[TA-Mark 195]

It looks the chassis is made of black FRP or perhaps (for stiffness) Carbon?? Would mean a transition towards trhe 21st century for the ReRR

It is FRP. Quoted from TamiyaUSA.com:

*A duralumin plate reinforced 2mm thick FRP main frame.

[pagedm_f350 3]

May I presume you have not spent thousands on your collection? Well I have, and I did that to buy the cars I could never afford in my youth. I sacrificed a lot to do so now, and you suggest its not a passion? Now I find out I could have waited and spent peanuts. If you cant see how that is disappointing, I don't know how to explain it further.

Besides all that, you miss the point. Had people not faithfully collected these cars, the ReRe's may well have never happened. We proved the market for Tamiya, now they devalue it. That's insulting. Not only that, those who cant afford it are now getting almost the exact same thing off the back of the investment serious collectors have made. Having some one in that situation begrudging my annoyance is even worse than Tamiya devaluing my collection.

Its is not that the collection is devalued as such, its that I spent a fortune that was ultimately not necessary, and that Tamiya has dumped on the very people who made the ReRe's viable.

That's logical and reasonable, and despite what I said, not bitter and twisted.

Acorn, you presume wrong, I have spent many, many thousands on my collection, just not vintage...

I took your first post exactly how you wrote it, you sounded bitter and twisted and you also stated you might aswell throw them in the bin now, to me that doesn't sound like someone who is passionate about collecting vintage r/c cars, sounds more like someone passionate about making and not losing money.

I don't see how a re-re that is not an identical clone of the original can cause you to have so much regret. Sure, you could have saved heaps of money and waited until now but you still wouldn't have an original vintage Tamiya Rough Rider would you, it would just be a re re Buggy Champ from 2009......

Ohh, and I forgot to add if you read my reply to you I did say I understood your dissapointment:

...I kind of felt the same, maybe not to the same extent when I paid AU$400.00 for an original Wrangler body and then 2 months later they re-released the thing again, but hey, I got over it, I still have an original Wrangler, it didn't change my Wrangler, only my attitude towards it..

Sure, who wouldn't be dissapointed to find out they could of saved a lot of money, but you posted your reaction, which was kind of extreme, just a big dummy spit and throw the lot in the bin:

Very nice an all that, but that's the end of me collecting vintage cars.

Bad enough when the Re-Re Frog came out, now this. All that wasted time, effort and money. Might as well stick the whole lot in the bin. Better that than sit here looking at collection that reminds me of my mistake getting in to this in the first place. All that money, all that time, all that effort, just blown away with every re-release. Sweet, really sweet.

Thanks a lot Tamiya. Dump on the dedicated vintage collectors. Cheers.

Sorry if that sounds bitter and twisted, but that is exactly how I feel right now. Gutted.

But you know what, we are all entitled to our personal opinions, so I accept this re-re has upset you.

sorry, I hope you stay dedicated to your hobby and continue to enjoy all things Tamiya,

All the Best,

Dan

[RA1028 3]

On second thought, I don't think we should criticize on other people's negetive feeling on this re-issue so we can hear more different voices on this issue. Let keep this a frendly discussion.

[Dante77 11]

Well put!

I guess most people here who achieved having one or more SRB's in their collection have mixed feelings about the re-re. I definitely had. When I first got the news I was shocked, because it was the last thing I expected from Tamiya.

But now, after thinking about it and reading the different opinions here, I'm really looking forward to getting two new Buggy Champs!

On second thought, I don't think we should criticize on other people's negetive feeling on this re-issue so we can hear more different voices on this issue. Let keep this a frendly discussion.

[Leethal Driver 86]

I've been into Tamiya for about 8 months and I've been struggling to get any sort of tingle from the SRB's to be honest (have gone through a Hornet, currently got an MB and Sand Rover in resto, run a VLB and a BFX, Scooby TL01 just so you know). I think maybe it's because the technology in the SRB's seems a bit primitive to what's available today, I'm not sure (but then I spent a lot on a SR which only shared one other model for parts). Also, the prices of these is way out of my budget.

However, I will deffo be trying to get my hands on one of these.

They just look so **** cool. More I look at it, the more I want one.

As does everyone else it seems

[Live Steam Mad 17]

Don't know if it's been mentioned but the black FRP chassis may be because the re-re Frog has a black FRP chassis stiffner plate and they already had that material ready for production cutting? As I had to buy 2 of the original green / brown FRP plates for the original Frog to make my buggy more original.

Tamiya know full well that the originals were green / brown FRP on the SRB's as they have an original SS and RR and SC and XLT in their museum inside their HQ.

Bring on the Sand Scorcher re-release The situation as it stood could not continue in my personal opinion as I bought a body a couple of years back off Ebay that turned out to be perfect and I thought it was a lot of money at 60 GBP only to find that just 2 years later a near perfect SS body was approaching 150 GBP off Ebay going by the auctions that I saw, and it was turning into a similar story for RR and SC and XLT!

I bought a mint rear Nylon cage for 23 GBP and then they are going for more like 50 - 60 GBP these days, and even grey bumpers NIP were approaching 60 and more GBP, it was getting out of hand IMHO. Thank Goodness for re-re's.

Fortunately I bought up about 10 NIB original Hump packs over a 14 or so month period a couple of years ago on Ebay when they were being sold for 14 GBP a time when the exchange rate was very good against the USD. I was very suprised at the time how there was almost no interest in them from any other collectors or enthusiasts as they were listed at least once a month and I only got outbid twice or so. No they are not for sale. I got them so that I can slice them open to install new cells whilst keeping the original appearance. I got 10 as some shell halves have to be sacrificed as you can't slit them with a slitting saw exactly down the middle as you loose material of both halves that you can never replace when re-sealing them (think about it LOL). However it turned out when I tested them that one or 2 had a little over 1200 capacity on discharge still and thus didn't need replacement cells so I'll be using those!

The Li Fe PO4 battery packs are new to me, I was like, where did they come from?! Very interesting. However I don't understand why Tamiya are using them? Since the 1400 mAh mini packs from the Tyrell re-re are 7.2V and fit perfectly in the SRB radio box without any mod's and have a higher capacity AND higher voltage (for best efficiency and torque). OK so they are NI CD but they are easy to recharge on my 'old' MRC 969 charger.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[TamiyaMan 5]

We proved the market for Tamiya, now they devalue it. That's insulting.

Since I've been "devalued" more than most, let me just say: TAMIYA - Oh please please keep insulting me!

Re-Release everything! Flood the market for a lifetime! Make it all worth "nothing" LOL.

I'm begging you - I want it all - it's been worth every dime - INSULT ME.

Lots of things in this life are about money - this is not one of them.

The tragic day that it ever became about money would be the day I would throw it all away without a second glance and buy some Losi or Traxxas monotone junk.

Luckily that's about as likely as a Lombardi Trophy for the Detroit Lions.

[Wandy 1529]

£55 for a set of Sand Blaster Juniors!!!! ;)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=380123241222

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=380123241033

I guess that's what you can add on to the cost of your re-re if you want it looking like the original. Who bought/sold these babies then?

[TA-Mark 195]

£55 for a set of Sand Blaster Juniors!!!! ;)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=380123241222

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=380123241033

I guess that's what you can add on to the cost of your re-re if you want it looking like the original. Who bought/sold these babies then?

I was watchin them... too rich for my blood. So I bought J-man's SRB alloy bumper instead. Nice bit of work.

[loaded 4]

You would Think Loaded would have come on by now and said he had ordered his pallet load of Buggies .....Where is Paul anyone know he would usually be all over this

I have spent the last month in St Barths, getting burned as only a pasty Englishman can. I returned yesterday evening, but I have to admit that the news wasn't news to me.

I have received loads of emails about this and even a couple of people asked what I thought in the thread, so I thought I would offer up my opinion, even though I am not sure how valuable the opinion of one of the men who said this would never happen is. First off, this is great news and I am delighted Tamiya have chosen to repackage these items in the blisters. I have it on good authority that all metal moulds (the original ones) were destroyed, so all moulded metal parts are newly moulded, though in a similar vein. There are actually many subtle differences to the original, including the bumper finish, rear antenna, moulded metal parts, fibre plate material, decals, shocks and more besides. There will still be a huge demand for original parts and in my opinion for original NIB kits. I think the value of mint kits will be hurt slightly (as all reissues are mint) and all items will be slightly hurt temporarily, but only because of supply and demand (until news really gets out, many people may panic sell and the simple law of supply and demand will reduce prices) but longer term we should be back to reasonable (though not silly) values soon, as has been the case with some of the other re issues, though not all (I am currently negotiating the sale of one of my Hotshot NIB kits for £500, which is quite a lot of money you will probably agree and back to pre re issue prices?)

But who cares? This has nothing to do with money. Lets put this in perspective. If you are worried about the value of a rare valuable toy going down, then you shouldn't be spending the money on it, or speculating on it in the first place. You buy it because you want it and it is expensive because it is rare. It still is rare. I have seen loads of fake Rolexes, I reckon 9 out of 10 are probably fake, but that doesn't mean I feel cheap for wearing one, because I know mine is the real deal. I rarely wear one nowadays anyway, as they are cumbersome and I have a small wrist, but that is another story. There are more kit car 959s and Countachs on the road than real ones, but they don't devalue the originals either. Generally the sort of people, or better still the reason for buying them is different. These new Rough Riders will be opened and ran and I seriously doubt will ever be kept in the box for investment. The cat is out of the bag on that. But the originals will remain and still hold a special place in our hearts and we will be all the better off for the re issue. Why? Well for a start, it brings thousands of people into the hobby. One reason I previously stated as for this never happening was that there aren't really enough of us on Tamiyaclub to make it work. However, clearly Tamiya think differently and want to bring people into the hobby and back into the hobby. Tamiya aren't doing this for any reason other than money, with a hint of nostalgia (in the same way a steak with a sprig of parsley is still a steak) so they must want to bring more people in and back in, which can only be a good thing, right?

I must admit to knowing about this for a while (about 2 months), but not all the details (for example the blister packs I had no idea about) This is a difficult thing to admit to - why didn't I say something? Well that kind of news is something the manufacturer lets out when they are ready, like the show, for example - otherwise it is just a rumour (and we know a song about this, don't we Chris!) I know a bunch of people here on Tamiyaclub.com knew about this for a month at least, so they didn't say something either. Now the news is out, I am pleased to say I am delighted about this development, as undoubtedly it will bring more people into the hobby. It will change my attitude a little towards collecting, for example, I no longer will feel the need to buy multiples of kits (which will make some people happy) as I need the space.

With more than a little irony, let me say that I still think a Sand Scorcher re issue is unlikely, otherwise they would have done it, however, never say never, I have been caught before :-)

Paul.

[terry.sc 16]

Right, we either keep on topic or the posts get deleted.

Firstly, ONE person posted

Very nice an all that, but that's the end of me collecting vintage cars.

...

Thanks a lot Tamiya. Dump on the dedicated vintage collectors. Cheers.

Sorry if that sounds bitter and twisted, but that is exactly how I feel right now. Gutted.

and this has been followed by all these, and implications from others

Funny the way people get angry about re res - its not fair wawawaww cry tantrum etc.

I tell you what, all the guys that don't want to buy a re-re because it wrecked your vintage collection give me the $300 bucks the Buggy Champ will be and I will invest it for you, call me in 30 years time and I will give you your $2000 investment gain, as long as I can keep the rest........

wow tamiya should bring out a new car called the WAAAAAAAAMBULANCE for all the collectors that are annoyed with this.

To those of you who are crying their lungs out because of how much money you "lost" on these NiB kits you just bought a few weeks ago...

Forget about the selected few who suddenly cry over the value of their collection dropping tenfold, they aren't the true enthusiasts anyway! We, the joe schmoes of vintage RC collecting, are! Give us what we need and can afford!

Now every reply from the people who do actually collect vintage r/c have several times pointed out why they have collected, and that the one reason that's constantly repeated is that the most important part is the time and effort involved in rebuilding the cars. For all but a tiny few no one cares about the value apart from the bunch of people who find any excuse to have a go at those of us who put the effort in to restore and run the old cars.

If anyone wants to have a go at others about the reason they collect vintage cars, then start another thread about it but be prepared to have your dogmas broken.

[terry.sc 16]

Terry, what's your thoughts on this re-release? We have had lots of debate about the possibility of this ever happening, and you were always one of those who believed there was virtually no chance it would. Having looked at the new parts and your experience of the toy industry do you now think differently about how difficult it will have been for Tamiya to make this happen?

No difference, the big difference is 2-3 years ago when it was discussed it wasn't the 30th anniversary of the original, nor was Tamiya trying to do whatever it can to increase sales in a recession.

[terry.sc 16]

In the full-size retro car scene here in the UK (and probably the rest of Europe) there is a term called 'Scene Tax'.

..

It has meant that a lot of people have been priced out of the market of owning these vehicles (and so cannot be part of the 'scene' surrounding them, hence the term 'scene tax').

In both cases it's down to supply and demand. If you just look at ebay as your source of cars then you are always going to pay top dollar for them, as that's where you will be fighting with the most buyers for the cars. Part of the joy of collecting vintage has been visiting car boot sales and toy fairs, looking for old cars to either add to my collection or to sell on ebay to pay for other cars. Finding this (that's 2 and a half complete SRBs) at a car boot for £30 is what the hobby is all about to me, and my best condition Scorcher was actually given to me.

[terry.sc 16]

Personally the Buggy Champ does nothing for me, it's just another new kit. It might be because I already have a runner, but if I didn't I still wouldn't be rushing out to buy one. The F104 is what's getting me excited about the new releases.

How cool would it be to have a meet later in the year with nothing but runner SRBs invading the beaches!

Some of us already do 1, 2, 3.

[HunterZero 76]

There are actually many subtle differences to the original, including the bumper finish, rear antenna, moulded metal parts, fibre plate material, decals, shocks and more besides.

Yes, and it is these subtle differences that matter to the purists, so they can determine for themselves which is an old release if that really matters to them. So there are still challenges out there for those about having an 'original' if that matters to you (if you can call the older kits that - they're ALL technically original Tamiya SRBs). But the rest of us can enjoy the 'old school' assembly of building a RR new from box without breaking the bank.

Tamiya probably source some parts like screws and certain materials like the sheet FRP from a third party manufacturer, which is why the chassis plate differs. I'd be interested to see if it's stronger than the original, so we see fewer radio boxes cracked by chassis flex.

There will still be a huge demand for original parts and in my opinion for original NIB kits.

If the pattern of the previous re-releases is anything to go by... The demand for the originals will return in time, and the price will creep up again - but there is no doubt that in the near future at least, the originals will be severely devalued (offset by a reduction in examples offered for sale), and demand shattered. For someone trying to sell an older kit, it will be harder from now on to find someone who cares enough about the little differences between the older kits and new kits to pay thousands rather than a few hundred for a re-release.

But the phenomenon we've seen in the past is that the older kits don't show up for public sale on eBay as much anymore, since the owners know that it won't be as easy to get the price they want for them anymore. The older cars become very hard to find, unless you deal directly with a collector - and pay collector prices.

Remember a lot of the prices we all see are eBay prices, and asking prices in classifieds listings... We don't see as much of the privately negotiated deals going on, eg between club members.

(I am currently negotiating the sale of one of my Hotshot NIB kits for £500, which is quite a lot of money you will probably agree and back to pre re issue prices?)

This follows on from what I'm saying above... To get one of these originals, from now on one will more likely have to negotiate directly with a collector for one, and you have to care enough about the differences with the re-re to pay the premium they will demand. Collectors still aren't going to part with their older kits for cheap. The Hot Shot NIB kits were around the $500-$700 mark for a while, spiking towards US$900 before the re-re.

I have seen loads of fake Rolexes, I reckon 9 out of 10 are probably fake, but that doesn't mean I feel cheap for wearing one, because I know mine is the real deal. ... There are more kit car 959s and Countachs on the road than real ones, but they don't devalue the originals either. Generally the sort of people, or better still the reason for buying them is different.

There is one flaw in this analogy - the re-issue Buggy Champ is not a fake. It IS the real deal. It IS a genuine brand Tamiya. Just a newer production run. The fact that there's more than 25 years between manufacture of the kits doesn't really change this. If anything -- the minor improvements may mean it's a slightly better car than the original.

It's more like buying a classic collectible vintage Rolex, vs buying a newer one. And the newer one probably has different internals.

These new Rough Riders will be opened and ran and I seriously doubt will ever be kept in the box for investment. The cat is out of the bag on that.

I disagree with this.

I think that with the combination of the blister packaging to appeal to collectors, and the prestige of these SRB kits with collectors is such that a number of people will keep at least one or two NIB, as well as building one or two. That, coupled with the fact that people generally know they're pretty average performers as runners, so they're better kept in the box.

Look at the 30th anniversary Porsche re-release. A sizeable proportion of those were not built, they were primarily a collector release. This is despite that they were superb cars to build and drive, which shows that people do still care about the collectibility of newer kits in certain cases.

People don't necessarily only buy and keep these kits unbuilt to speculate (although I am sure that some people do). They also buy them so they can have have these cool kits NIB in their collection, and maybe enjoy building them one day.

I do think that when the re-issue Buggy Champ becomes hard to find, the values of the reissue kits will creep up, just as the re-issue Dyna Storm and Top Force have done. The blister packaging makes this all the more likely. They definitely will not reach the stratospheric heights of the older kits, as hardcore collectors will never pay the high prices for something they dismiss as 'not an original', but the fact that the new kit comes with old-school packaging brings the collector appeal a step closer to the original.

And on-topic - great pics so far! Looking forward to seeing an exploded view of the dampers so we can see differences.

Anyone seen the manual yet? PICS! WE DEMAND PICS!

- James

[Hibernaculum 933]

I am currently negotiating the sale of one of my Hotshot NIB kits for £500, which is quite a lot of money you will probably agree and back to pre re issue prices?

Sounds like a nice price on that one.

I guess a one-off private sale of a nice kit, might get a good price. From what I've seen, the NIB 58047 Hotshots have still been ending for quite a bit less than they were before the re-release. Maybe they will recover as you say, I don't know. To quote The Flaming Lips, "It's all a mystery...".

One thing though is that NIB 58041 Frogs are still far lower than they would have been, if the re-release had never happened. In 2000 I paid US$300 for a near new-built Frog. NIB examples were at one time, pushing US$600+. In 2009 a NIB 58041 Frog is lucky to make US$400. If there hadn't been a re-release, surely they would fetch at least US$700-$800 now. The Frog is a much loved, significant, and old model.

The Rough Rider has historically been priced much, much higher, as we know. But that might only mean it has further to fall.

When the flood of comparatively cheap NIB Rough Rider re-release kits hits eBay, complete with blister packs, well...many will scoff at the thought of paying more for minor variations. 80-90% of people in these threads seem to be evidence of that. What was once a rare jewel and a rare sight, is about to become strangely commonplace.

Psychologically, it will even have a slight effect on those who care about the originals. I know I still feel it every time I walk into my LHS and see the Hotshot, Hornet and Frog kits just sitting there... after spending some 13+ years beforehand chasing parts and collecting them.

cheers,

H.

[Fishlord 2]

I and i'm sure many others are looking forward to the new found availability of parts to complete already ongoing restorations, camlocks spring to mind as I have been toying with ways to make some as even used prices certainly on ebay can be a bit much. I also think that the new rough rider may stop alot of people from running their vintage kits as there is little point risking damaging them when you can run a reissue. My ford ranger was going to be a runner but now I think it will become a shelf car, still can't wait for the new RR though if just for the pleasure of building a box fresh srb!

[Badboy 94]

The first Buggy Champ crash?!!

Badboy

[Origineelreclamebord 45]

The first Buggy Champ crash?!!

Badboy

Well at least you'll have spares coming up for it I can't wait to see all those SRB vids on TC, I bet the original ones will find their way to the dust and dirt a little sooner, too, with the parts availability we'll have soon!

[WillyChang 1814]

Yea parts supply will be great... can't wait for the usual chopshops to start.

Wonder how many truly NIB RRs (good box, 100% complete) left out there today anyway... 100? Can't be more than 200 in total.

.... You buy it because you want it and it is expensive because it is rare. It still is rare. I have seen loads of fake Rolexes, I reckon 9 out of 10 are probably fake, but that doesn't mean I feel cheap for wearing one, because I know mine is the real deal. I rarely wear one nowadays anyway, as they are cumbersome and I have a small wrist, but that is another story.

same here - full size std oyster a bit chunky, boy size a bit small. Rather lose the wrist no-tan line these days so mine just tick on the shelf.

However fakes aren't hard to spot a mile off, if you're an educated enthusiast.

And i tend to treat ppl who wear fakes on their wrists with a little less trust than someone wearing a Casio; dunno why, chalk it up to irrationality.

[loaded 4]

One of the previous posters is quite right in that a fake Rolex isn't made by Rolex, but a re issued Tamiya is, however, I put to you the following:

Black Porsche (which it doesn't even say BLACK on the box) has a different plastic chassis and the parts are likely to be made outside Japan like many other Tamiya parts nowadays.

Buggy Champ doesn't say Rough Rider (largely down to Rough Rider being tough for Japanese people to say) and all metal parts are cast out of new moulds, the fibre parts are a different material, the tyres have different lettering, the shocks are different and as above, unlikely to be made wholly in Japan either.

They really swung me a curve with the blisters though, I never expected that and everyone who said (myself included) that it would cost a lot to tool up to make an SRB was way off base.

As previously stated by many, the devil is in the details. For example, most people wouldn't know that a Rolex Cosmograph Daytona bought before a certain date doesn't have a Rolex mechanism in it, but a Zenith one and there are people who won't buy one or the other, even though it looks the same from the outside. This sort of thing can affect values on watches and buggies.

Granted though, it isn't a fake, but it isn't a genuine vintage SRB either.

Paul.