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Spetz83

Took Apart A Tamiya Type S Motor

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So I noticed there were some little rocks inside the can of my Type S and couldn't get them out without opening it

Now, when I opened it, some washers fell out etc and I didn't notice where from exactly (I could kind of guess but better safe than sorry)

Is there a exploded view or manual for these motors? Or any motor I can go by?

And, seeing as it's apart, should I grease anything or do anything? It has bushes, which I assume I should grease up?

The brushes are still about 8-10mm long. That's fine isn't it?

Thanks :)

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The washers are to adjust the position of the commutator relative to the brushes.

According to the data sheet for that motor, it begins life with 3 washers, two at the comm end & one at the pinion end.

(Dis)assembly is a quick & easy job, so if it doesn't quite line up, swap one to the other end.

As for the bushes, just a tiny drop of light oil if they are dry, but they shouldn't really need it.

Don't use grease in motors, everything sticks to it & it will gum up the inside of the motor.

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Every motor is different, so every motor will have different washers. The washers are not meant to shim the comm to the brushes, but instead center the rotor in the cans magnetic field.

The best way to shim the motor properly (and probably better than the factory) is to put it back together without brushes or shims. Now lay the motor on it's side and give the rotor shaft a good spin. While the rotor spins, it will center itself within the magnetic field. Once it stops, give the rotor shaft a push in one direction and note how much play it has in one direction. Now spin the shaft again and check the play in the opposite direction. Whichever direction has more play, gets more shims. Install a couple shims and recheck the play. The idea is that once you've installed all shims, you still have minimal play in either direction after you spin the rotor shaft. Now you've centered the rotor in the magnetic field. This gives the motor much less drag because the magnetic field is no longer forcing the rotor against the bushings...

It doesn't matter if the brushes are not sitting on the exact same spot on the comm after re-shimming the motor. The brushes will easily seat to the new spot on the comm. I suggest running the motor in on 2-3v for 10 minutes under a fan to re-seat the brushes. I use some old side-by-side packs with alagator clips to accomplish this. If you don't have that, rig up some something using household batteries...

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So the bushes shouldn't be greased? It seems a bit odd that it'll be spinning at near 30,000rpm with metal to metal grinding dry?

One of the shims that fell out wasn't metal. I assume this would go on the com side?

And, another bit fell off, a small metal clip looking thing (not for the brushes or anything) and I have no idea where it could have come from

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So the bushes shouldn't be greased? It seems a bit odd that it'll be spinning at near 30,000rpm with metal to metal grinding dry?

Use light oil not grease, I use sewing machine oil on my bearings/bushes after a quick blast with motor cleaner.

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Thanks guys I managed to put it all back together, and I use sewing machine oil as well.

I noticed that I can easily change timing on these motors. If I advance the timing I get more rpm and less torque?

This is going into an FF01 so more rpm and less torque is exactly what I want

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Thanks guys I managed to put it all back together, and I use sewing machine oil as well.

I noticed that I can easily change timing on these motors. If I advance the timing I get more rpm and less torque?

This is going into an FF01 so more rpm and less torque is exactly what I want

Yes, adjusting timing will produce the results like you said. In addition to increasing rpm, additional timing will aslo increase heat and wear. When running your car, make sure you can hold your thumb on the can for at least 3 seconds. Check often during your first couple runs. If it gets too hot, you should try less timing advance or a smaller pinion.

If the plastic washer was large and brown, then yes it goes against the commutator. It's a phenolic spacer meant to shelid the comm from oil on the bushings...

BTW: Do not put any lube on the brushes!!! Oil only goes on the bushings on either end of the assembled can. If you put oil on the brushes, it will burn off and leave lots of gunky buildup behind. This can impead performance. Brushes have dry lubricant built in, and will have no problem turning 30k rpm for extended periods of time (it won't hit 30k rpm when actually powering the model anyways).

For longest life and maximum performance, it is a good idea to have the comm cut on a lathe every once in a while (especially when replacing the brushes). See if anybody at your local hobby store can do this for you. It will keep the brushes from bouncing and arching and causing more wear. Of course it also increases power. This isn't necessary though...

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Can you please tell me what a comm is? I realise it's something up there where the brushes are.

If I advance the timing, by how much should I go? 5-10 degrees?

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Can you please tell me what a comm is? I realise it's something up there where the brushes are.

If I advance the timing, by how much should I go? 5-10 degrees?

Yep!, it's on the data sheet, that Blacque Jacque posted in the plan view, it's what the brushes touch., hope that helps.

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Yep!, it's on the data sheet, that Blacque Jacque posted in the plan view, it's what the brushes touch., hope that helps.

Yeah, it's that copper cylinder at one end of the armature that the brushes ride on. You'll see it's divided into three segments. As the comm rotates the brushes cross from one segment to the next. When this happens, a small electrical arc forms. This arc slowly wears the copper in that spot between each segments Over time this wear becomes exagerated and 3 slight dips form in the surface of the com. As the brushes ride over these dips, they loose contact with the comm and creates even bigger arcs. This then accelerates comm wear, increases electrical noise and of course reduces performance. To many this drop off is gradual and goes unnoticed, so cutting the comm isn't exactly necesary (just run the motor till it dies). Of course you will certainly notice a boost to performance if and when you do decide to get the comm serviced...

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Well now I know what a com is :P

Now, as for advancing the timing. By how much? And how many rpm am I likely to gain??

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Well the factory timing set seems to be the 3rd notch on the endbell past the screw (zero). For additional timing try the 4th & final notch. Just keep an eye on heat. It may or may not work for you. It really depends on the track and/or driving conditions...

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It's in an FF01 so I think heat shouldn't be an issue as there will never be any huge load on it.

It seems I need to grind that plastic clip thing off though to change timing

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It's in an FF01 so I think heat shouldn't be an issue as there will never be any huge load on it.

It seems I need to grind that plastic clip thing off though to change timing

I would listen to 94eg!, you will be very surprised at how much extra heat advancing the timing will produce. Use the rule of thumb (lol) above thumb on can for three seconds - if you can't gear down.

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It's in an FF01 so I think heat shouldn't be an issue as there will never be any huge load on it.

It seems I need to grind that plastic clip thing off though to change timing

It's not necessarily the load of the car that creates heat. It's large amounts of current flowing through the motor. This can come from excessive gearing that keeps you in the lower rpm where current draw is at it's highest. Remember a motor draws it's peak current at startup and drops off from there. This is why gearing and/or timing should be adjusted to suit the driving style and conditions. Just some food for thought...

Keep an eye on motor temps...

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I think though with a car with very little traction (being FWD) if it's in lower rpm, it means I am not flooring it, as with full throttle it would wheelspin and the revs would rise up

That's why I'm thinking it should be ok in the FF01 as I don't ever see the load being too high?

btw, how many rpm more can I gain? And would this equate to more top speed or would it have so little power at those revs that it would be able to cancel out wind resistance and mechanical drag?

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btw, how many rpm more can I gain? And would this equate to more top speed or would it have so little power at those revs that it would be able to cancel out wind resistance and mechanical drag?

It's all trial & error my man. Every motor is different...

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