Jump to content
Bjoern

Top Force (evo) Rear "universal Shaft"

Recommended Posts

Hello,

I would like to "upgrade" my standard Top Force (58100) with rear "universal shafts" (58107 - evo). I had a look in the evo manual and noticed that there are no O-Rings in the Gearbox Joints.

I assembled all parts exactly described in the evo manual but now I have a larger axle clearance (hope it is the right word). Using the original, standard Top Force parts (Drive shafts, Wheel Axle, O-Rings in the Gearbox Joints) I had no axle clearance.

Why does the evo not have the O-Rings?

Thanks!

Regards

Bjoern

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A universal shaft will not 'walk' in and out of the outdrives like a dogbone will, so doesn't need to be limited in movement so it doesn't bind on the crosspin slots. It's held in position on the universal end.

I still use a small piece of pad on mine like what is fitted to the DF03 to stop the outdrive from coming out of the diff. The ball diffs only have a short spline that strips easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand what you mean but the standard Top Force does also have the O-Rings in the front outdrives (+ universal shafts).

Without the O-Rings I can move the wheels 1-2mm. Is that "normal"? I don't think that this movement is good for the ball bearings in the uprights.

Look at the following pictures (the wishbone is on all pictures in the same position, only the univ. shaft has been moved):

pic1ewy.jpg

pic2jik.jpg

pic3v.jpg

dsc01246p.jpg

dsc01252p.jpg

dsc01256o.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's better to have some play rather than to have it running too tight, that will cause excessive wear for sure, although play may be nasty too (don't have a lot of experience with that).

Anyway, I experienced a similar problem, although not with a buggy. I have a TA03F which uses Kose aftermarket universals (officially for the FF01/TA02, but have same length and axle so they were compatible). When I had them fitted I could move the universal shaft 1-2 millimeters. This however wasn't such a problem compared to the play it had (due to the construction of this type of axle, which is different than the TF/Evo rear axles); I could move the wheel at least 8mm diagonally once it was fitted, resulting in odd camber angles :D I solved this problem by using a ring on the outside of the axle (between the bearing and the hex) and used one shim (probably 0.1mm or something) and there was no side to side movement in the axle anymore. This meant that there now is less play in the front wheels of my TA03F than the rear wheels, and things still run smoothly! :)

You can see the same thing with the Long suspension arms set of the TB01. Both the standard driveshafts and the universal shafts are held in the steering knuckle by an E-clip, but with a ring between the E-clip and the bearings. Without it, it would have at least 1mm of space in between the E-clip and the bearing.

PS: If you would like to see some pictures, I can take soms shots of it tomorrow ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PS: If you would like to see some pictures, I can take soms shots of it tomorrow :D

Yes, please. I think a shim is a good solution. By using a thicker shim it must be possible to tighten the universal end with NO play. The univ. shaft can only walk in the crosspin slots.

My problem is that the hex can border on the ball bearing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The o rings in the diff output are irrelevant, the play is pretty standard from Tamiyas cars. If you want to remove the play buy a pack of 5mm shims, Tamiya part number 53587, and add shims until there is just a small amount of play when the wheel nut is tightened up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, please. I think a shim is a good solution. By using a thicker shim it must be possible to tighten the universal end with NO play. The univ. shaft can only walk in the crosspin slots.

My problem is that the hex can border on the ball bearing.

Here are some pictures of rings (I think these are 1mm thick) being used to reduce play in the driveshaft construction.

These two pictures are from my TB01 with Long suspension arms set and universal shafts:

PICT0194-1.jpg

PICT0195.jpg

This shows that Tamiya sometimes also uses rings to reduce play in their drivetrain parts and it's not some mod you will have to get your own parts for; Tamiya sells these rings and shims seperately.

These last two pictures are from my TA03F using Kose universal shafts and some spare rings I had lying around:

PICT0197-1.jpg

PICT0196.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks!

Do you have any play when you have tightened the hex on the TA03F? When I look at the last two pictures I think that it is play free. I think that it is the best solution but Tamiya always says only "reduce play".

Does anyone know where to buy 0,5 and 1 mm shims? The set contains "only" 0,1 / 0,2 / 0,3 shims. Are shims in stainless steel available?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks!

Do you have any play when you have tightened the hex on the TA03F? When I look at the last two pictures I think that it is play free. I think that it is the best solution but Tamiya always says only "reduce play".

Does anyone know where to buy 0,5 and 1 mm shims? The set contains "only" 0,1 / 0,2 / 0,3 shims. Are shims in stainless steel available?

The TB01 has less than 0.5mm of play (probably something likme 0.2mm), for the TA03F it's hard to determine since all the suspension parts have loads of play (despite being completely new, it's just in their design) ;) - anyway, if I grab the steering knuckle and try to push the universal shaft in and out of the steering knuckle, I can't really feel any play (though on the picture you can see there is a tiny bit of it).

My local DIY shop has such rings, so if you have a DIY shop in your town or a town near you, you could try it there. The inner diameter needs to be 5mm, the outer diameter about 10mm, thickness of 1mm is good enough. If you have a few 1mm rings you can reduce the other play with the .1, .2 and .3mm shims.

Tamiya says reduce play, and you don't want to do more than that. All parts need a bit of play to run freely. Even though the tolerances are much smaller there, F1 cars will have play in parts just because you want things running as smoothly as possible. It's better to have play in your drivetrain than some parts are too tight and start rubbing (and wearing) each other out.

I think a good example is my Dyna Storm. It's a very high spec car (especially for it's time), but here and there it does have some play, especially in the wheels. The parts have been made to have the least play possible, shims here and there to reduce play, it's much less than on my other (lower spec) cars, but the car just can't run well without play :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does anyone know where to buy 0,5 and 1 mm shims? The set contains "only" 0,1 / 0,2 / 0,3 shims. Are shims in stainless steel available?
Just buy any 5mm washers, they are 1mm thick.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just buy any 5mm washers, they are 1mm thick.

That's what I used. Though I put them on the inside and not out under the crosspin where they could be easliy misplaced when changing wheels.

Are all the ones you have the same length of shaft from the bearing shoulder to the crosspin hole? When I compare mine I notice that 2 are a different length. 2 of mine are for Thundershot and the other 2 from Top Force.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...