Does Anybody Have Connections At Kamtec?

[94eg!]

Hey all,

Back in August of 2005 I sent a new Vanquish body & wing along with a new Avante 2001 undertray to Keith over at Kamtec with the intention of having replicas made and sold in his e-store. A deal was made that he would replicate the parts (for sale on his site) and send the originals, plus some bonus parts in trade. Several months went by without word, so I started e-mailing him to check on progress. He kept telling me he was working on it, and working on it. His last response (August 07) seemed promising:

The Vanquish body, alas is still on the work bench

awaiting finishing, I am so sorry, it seems a bit pathetic now, I have so

much to do and so little time, I have a list of projects as long as my arm,

but I still so badly want to complete the Vanquish. Will let you know as

soon as possible.

But since then, he hasn't returned my e-mails. I've recently e-mailed him to ask for my originals back if he wasn't going to be making replicas, but never received a response. I don't know if anybody here could help me out? Perhaps give him a kick in the pants to get them done or simply send them back? Any help with this matter would be most appreciated.

Thanks: -Sean

[loaded]

4 years is ridiculous and inexcusable. Now, I have been on the other side myself. I do chrome plating for people and sometimes it takes ages to get back (commissioned work, not things like Hotshot wheels which are a standard) because the work is done out of hours and outside of my control. But here is the absolutely salient point - I talk to the people involved. It is fair and reasonable for one offs and 'favours' to take a while to get fulfilled, none of us are rocket scientists,m or curing cancer, they are only toys after all (or so my wife keeps telling me). One guy waited nearly half a year for some parts he commissioned, but we talked the whole time and that made him comfortable.

But one way or another, however insignificant the bits may be, it is just rude to ignore people.

I trust you get my point, I don't mean to belittle anything, it is all serious when we are worried about being cheated, or making up a nice model etc, the key is communication.

Paul.

[Lemming]

Really sorry to hear that.

4 years in long enough, but the lack of contact must be driving you nuts.

I was in the middle of a project with Keith to do the Mitsubishi FTO bodyshell. I located and purchased a body to use as a template and sorted the decals as a scan of the carefully removed ones. Keith contributed to the purchase cost and the shell was with Keith at the end of April 2007 (so only 2 years and 4 months).

My last contact from Keith was on the 23rd of October 2008 - 8 months further on and no replies to any of the messages I've sent (including using the contact section on his website).

Regarding FTO, just a few more fiddles and we will be there. Will email you soon with availability.

This was always going to be a long-term project for me (took me more than 12 months to source the original shell) but the lack of contact is what is bothering me too. Before then he was keeping me updated as/when he had news & also replying even if there was no progress.

It got more annoying as I had direct contact with the FTO Owners Club (UK) and their sales arm who were intending to sell these on to members (as agreed with Keith). They are also beginning to wonder what the badword is going on as I am unable to provide any form of update as to progress.

I'll let you know if I hear anything from him and plan to direct him to this thread.

All the best

Steve

PS - I plan on calling him later this week if I don't receive a reply before then...

[94eg!]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm simply trying to keep a positive attitude as I know it's just "toy-cars". In my case, the original was slightly damaged, and had some small dents () that needed to be removed. I would completely understand if he simply didn't want to take the time to clean up the tooling. Please let me know if you can get in contact with him and if he has any plans to get the originals back to us (at the very least )...

Any other input or comments are welcome...

[Singapore_959]

XJC broadspeed coupe.

Hi Keith, remember me?

(four years btw)

I am sure there is good faith, but there is no communication.

End of day it would be a pleasant surprise, but I think the message is clear. Suggest it, but don't invest any money on it.

And there are other sources for bespoke bodyshells now.

[Lemming]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm simply trying to keep a positive attitude as I know it's just "toy-cars". In my case, the original was slightly damaged, and had some small dents () that needed to be removed. I would completely understand if he simply didn't want to take the time to clean up the tooling. Please let me know if you can get in contact with him and if he has any plans to get the originals back to us (at the very least )...

Will definitely keep this thread updated as I go along chasing him. I've joined the forums on his site, and posted a politely phrased comment on the "soon to be released" FTO. Nothing back on there either yet.

XJC broadspeed coupe.

(four years btw)

Now I'm worried, another person waiting over 4 years...

And there are other sources for bespoke bodyshells now.

I've had a quote from another source (Singapore knows them well), but I'm desperately hoping Keith will at least let us know what is going on.

After all this time I'd rather not have to start from scratch.

All the best guys

Steve

[gazwilts]

i get the impression keith is so busy he dosent know which way to look 1st. i remember a thread about him years back about non communication and 3 week delivery times on his shells. i was one of the people that purchased a shell from ebay and had to wait nigh on a month! recently though he seems to have got a lot better so its a shame to hear this..anyway i hope you guys get your stuff back. nothing worse than someone who dosent get back to you. it really only takes a few seconds to write an email.

[Lemming]

I've sent a message directly from Keith's site notifying him about thread. I can understand him being busy and not being able to finish projects, just the lack of communication (and finding out that others have the same problem) is getting frustrating.

Keith,

I am aware you are busy, but several TC members are getting concerned (as I am) with a lack of contact from yourself.

The store I lined up for the FTO shell are wondering what is happening as I have been unable to tell them anything at all...

I'm not worried about time-frames for the shell, as this was always a long-term project, more about the 8 month silence since your last reply.

Please see this thread on TC: http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?...c=51972&hl=

Will keep people updated and if Keith responds I will post it on here.

All the best

Steve

[94eg!]

Well I've pretty much written Kamtec off as SCAMMERS! I guess you can't expect too much from a company that copies other peoples work right? They continuously make promises that they can't/won't hold to. And when you ask for your parts back, they pretend like it's the next thing on their to-do list. Then in the end, they simply ignore you. Total BS IMO. I recommend all Tamiyaclub members stop patronizing these guys till they straighten these issues out. I imagine we are the majority of their business.

DOWN WITH KAMTEC!!!

[SteelRat]

Yes, because that'll be a great idea won't it. How many TC members have "poor mans Scorcher" cars with Kamtec beetle shells on them? Do that and it'll push the old Blitzer and MB beetle shell prices up even further.

They may not be great at returning your stuff when trying to develop new shells, and clearly have some problems at their end, but they are still one of the best UK BASED producers of bodyshells, and bringing on their demise would be nothing but a king sized shot in the foot for us.

Get some perspective people.

[loaded]

We do tend to bay for blood at the slightest transgression nowadays (me included) but Steel Rat has a point, just think how bad things must be for them in order for them to not have time to return things to people? We have a guy here in Czech who needs to finish our aquarium, nice guy, taken 2 years already..... He just has so many problems in his life, it is a complete mess!

Having said all that, Kamtecs enormous issue here seems to be communication. If they just picked up the phone or responded to emails.....

The problem stems partly from being jaded by emails such as the ones I receive :

"Hello, where are my parts or do I have to file a Paypal claim?"

This is the first email, perhaps 48 hours after the payment! It happens rarely, as I don't sell much stuff, but imagine what it is like for the big sellers! eBay and Paypal have raised the bar, but lets not forget most of the time, smoke and mirrors aside (to quote someone from another thread) most of these sellers, who have their flashy stores and use the term 'we' are actually one man bands. They have a lot to deal with and because of the competition driving down prices, selling can only ever be a part time thing, because most people need a job to make real money.

Just a little of the perspective SR alluded to and a bit of my feelings about it. The problem is of course valid, you want your parts back and not returning them is wrong. I have found out that people are very understanding when you communicate, problems do happen, but if the person on the other end doesn't know, they just get angrier and angrier and start threads like this....

Paul.

[loaded]

I just did a little research and Kamtec models have only sold $4500 worth of stock in the last 90 days. When considering fees and time taken, this is very little money for a sole source of income, as clearly it wouldn't be 100% profit.

There is an alternative, teambluegroove, who I actually supplied the Avante body set too (howeve,r they purchased it, not borrowed) and their bodyset (without undercowl) is $30 plus $15 international shipping. They also have an undercowl (not currently listed, I have suggested they list them together as well) for about $15 I seem to remember, perhaps even $10. There is an alternative if you want one. Although I haven't seen the goods, they are chatty people and nice to deal with from my side and the pictures look nice. I also think they are members here.

Paul.

[Lemming]

They may not be great at returning your stuff when trying to develop new shells, and clearly have some problems at their end, but they are still one of the best UK BASED producers of bodyshells, and bringing on their demise would be nothing but a king sized shot in the foot for us.

Get some perspective people.

I've kept it in perspective and haven't called for drastic action myself, but 8 months with no reply is extremely annoying so I can't even begin to imagine how several years feels.

I don't agree that causing their demise is a good step forward, but I can completely understand 94eg feeling that way.

We do tend to bay for blood at the slightest transgression nowadays (me included) but Steel Rat has a point, just think how bad things must be for them in order for them to not have time to return things to people? We have a guy here in Czech who needs to finish our aquarium, nice guy, taken 2 years already..... He just has so many problems in his life, it is a complete mess!

Having said all that, Kamtecs enormous issue here seems to be communication. If they just picked up the phone or responded to emails.....

The problem stems partly from being jaded by emails such as the ones I receive :

"Hello, where are my parts or do I have to file a Paypal claim?"

This is the first email, perhaps 48 hours after the payment! It happens rarely, as I don't sell much stuff, but imagine what it is like for the big sellers! eBay and Paypal have raised the bar, but lets not forget most of the time, smoke and mirrors aside (to quote someone from another thread) most of these sellers, who have their flashy stores and use the term 'we' are actually one man bands. They have a lot to deal with and because of the competition driving down prices, selling can only ever be a part time thing, because most people need a job to make real money.

Just a little of the perspective SR alluded to and a bit of my feelings about it. The problem is of course valid, you want your parts back and not returning them is wrong. I have found out that people are very understanding when you communicate, problems do happen, but if the person on the other end doesn't know, they just get angrier and angrier and start threads like this....

Paul.

Hi Paul,

I personally think that continually ignoring people who's items you have had in your possession for 4 years is a lot more than a slight transgression. (Its back to the manners issue which always riles me )

All my emails have always been polite (we even discuss our families and his dog). I haven't got aggressive or demanding even once in the messages.

If I had got shirty (like the example you provided) I could understand the lack of reply. The simple fact for me is that 8 months ago the product was going into production soon and I now cannot even get a "no news yet" reply...

Amusingly they have enough time to post on their own forum, including discussing what shells people would like produced next! Keith even commented to another of his forum members that the FTO shell in coming soon - if he has the time to do this then surely a quick reply to the person behind the project is not too much to ask for?

Steve

[TWINSET]

Well I've pretty much written Kamtec off as SCAMMERS! I guess you can't expect too much from a company that copies other peoples work right?

I think it's a little rich to start insulting people's integrity when you sent him the bits to copy in the first place, no?

Out of interest, has anyone experiencing problems with Keith ever phoned him, or just relied on email?

I've dealt with him a few times in the past, and always had greater success contacting him by phone.

[loaded]

That is a the beauty of emails and forums, sometimes what is in my head doesn't get properly onto the page :-)

I wasn't actually suggesting that this specific incident was a slight transgression, more that in general slight transgressions can be enough to get one going! I felt my previous comments suggested I thought these particular trangressions were 'inexcusable' but trying to find reason for the problem, rather than just theft of the items!

I didn't know Kamtec had their own forums, I will look for those, but I had a similar experience with someone who sells carbon fibre. Really nice guy, but I had to speak to him to get anything actually done!

Communication, communication, communication (Christ I sound like Tony Blair!) - clearly this is the issue, needs to be from their side, of course, I know your are communicating!

Paul.

[Lemming]

Hi Paul,

Sorry if I sounded annoyed - I wasn't actually! Typical me - never come across as I intend to.

I definitely don't think that boycotting Keith is the right way to go and he has previously been extremely communicative, hence my confusion at the present lack of communication.

As Andy says, he is doing us a favour and I certainly was well aware of the fact that this was a long-term project. It's purely the communication issues which are confusing me at present - to got from regular updates to nothing is very disconcerting. I've got the FTO shop chasing me regularly and don't want to make Keith look bad by telling them that he isn't replying. It's a delicate balancing act between a lack of news and the prospect of the finished article.

I had posted on his forum about the project in the hopes he might comment, but nothing as of yet. I also sent a message via the "Contact Us" section of his site before - no response there either.

I'll try calling him to see if there is any news - I will admit that I haven't actually got around to doing it as of yet. (I still need and embarrassed smiley) Looking after a 3 year old I just never seem to remember to do within working hours!

I actually don't mind the project taking a long time as long as I know where we are

Will keep people updated as I know more

Steve

EDIT: Just called and left a message as there was no answer - will let you all know what happens.

[Jonny555]

After this amount of time and ignored emails, I would jump into my car and pay him a visit. Face to face would get things sorted, either you take your stuff back then and there or you get an assurance as to when things will be sorted.

Quite frankly this guy is taking the pee. I build commissioned doll houses that take an awful amount of time to build, but I keep my customers fully up to date and aware of time scales. If he cannot cope with demand he should cut back on his workload or expand so he can cope. It's simple business sense. Annoying customers only serves to damage the business and restrict it's growth.

[loaded]

Is this you?

Tudor Wendy House

:-)

[TWINSET]

Is this you?

Isn't that a really big Jack Nicholson?

[loaded]

It is Peter Jones, supposed multi millionaire businessman, though quite why such a wealthy individual worth quarter of a billion would advertise bargain basement internet financial products whilst sliding around on an Asda trolley is beyond me, however, much of the world is beyond me....

Paul.

[Jonny555]

He'll never sell enough of those at that price! Is it gold lined or something.

All mine are 12th scale and prices start at around £3k, but they are considered collectors items which on the whole gain in value. When I first started about 12 years ago I built a Tudor style house which was sold for £950. Two years ago it sold for £3700. I don't know where it is now.

[Kokuzu]

I was in Contact with Kamtech twice.

Offered him a 908 1/12 Scale model to make a shell from. He was very enthusiastic and asked to make it.

When I replied and explained the rules how this deal would have to happen (I did not want to loose the only 908 probably around in Europe in this particular detail and material), he didn't come back.

So I did send a reminder several weeks later. He replied some weeks later again excusing having lost track -whatever that means.

Well, I could make a comment now and start bashing.... But some people - it seems to me - break when driving uphill....

I am just happy that my senses were alerted by the unprofessional behaviour and I decided not to send any prototoype bodies over the channel....

[garry]

In Keith's defence, he's the only man behind Kamtec, the only person working as the company.

With one pair of hands, he has to hand make all regular and custom bodies, hand vac-form them, package, and ship, deal with eBay sales, probably outside of more regular work, plus family time too. Theres only so many hours in a day, the saying goes.

Admittedly, its not an excuse for the delays, just some reasons, but they would be better coming from him though.

[Badboy]

I just remember that I sended him my MB nosecone for over 2 years ago...

Hmmm... Wonder if he still got it...?

I asked him to do some nosecones for me...

Badboy

[Lemming]

In Keith's defence, he's the only man behind Kamtec, the only person working as the company.

With one pair of hands, he has to hand make all regular and custom bodies, hand vac-form them, package, and ship, deal with eBay sales, probably outside of more regular work, plus family time too. Theres only so many hours in a day, the saying goes.

Admittedly, its not an excuse for the delays, just some reasons, but they would be better coming from him though.

Definitely understand that, it's the lack of contact which is upsetting.

Will wait and see if he calls me back at any point.

Steve