What A Waste ! :-[

[Singapore_959]

A beautiful new unsused CS F1 chassis totally destroyed

As you know I have to sell everything due to long period of no income. To be sure of safety I send everything sold via the courier service that nimrod-racing use for their business.The service has always been exemplary. 15euro for anything up to a certain size in Europe. I even use it for small cheap items. This was the first item I have sent to Italy. Look what the buyer just sent me today:

I packed the new chassis and race chassis in a double cardboard keyboard box, lined it with additional card and bubble wrap.

I cannot believe a courier delivery person could hand that over with a straight face. ?!! It looks like a pair of cutters was used on the chassis and the box is torn in half!!

Ofcourse I will file a claim now, but I just cannot imagine how a delivery person could hand such a package over? Anyone with experience of Italy like this?

Sadly this is absolutely the first and last time I will sell anything to Italy. I may as well have sent it via normal post and said uninsured for the hassle this is going to be and such waste of the the buyers and my time and a perfect rare chassis.

[lucasan]

A beautiful new unsused CS F1 chassis totally destroyed

As you know I have to sell everything due to long period of no income. To be sure of safety I send everything sold via the courier service that nimrod-racing use for their business.The service has always been exemplary. 15euro for anything up to a certain size in Europe. I even use it for small cheap items. This was the first item I have sent to Italy. Look what the buyer just sent me today:

I packed the new chassis and race chassis in a double cardboard keyboard box, lined it with additional card and bubble wrap.

I cannot believe a courier delivery person could hand that over with a straight face. ?!! It looks like a pair of cutters was used on the chassis and the box is torn in half!!

Ofcourse I will file a claim now, but I just cannot imagine how a delivery person could hand such a package over? Anyone with experience of Italy like this?

Sadly this is absolutely the first and last time I will sell anything to Italy. I may as well have sent it via normal post and said uninsured for the hassle this is going to be and such waste of the the buyers and my time and a perfect rare chassis.

That is pretty unforgivable without a doubt. I guess maybe that's why ebay sellers never post to Italy. I always thought it was because of very unreasonable customs and Italy's lack of an efficient and honest postal system. By the looks of what you've posted, it seems I am right on the second account. Good luck with recouping your loss. I really hope you are able to get something back. Also, thanks for giving everyone else the heads-up. there's definitely value to this post.

[Tamiya on the Brain]

That is truly unforgivable - sorry that you have to go through this. - I am lucky that I have never had an issue with shipping ( knock on wood) However, in my profession I deal with massive quantities of books mostly rare material at the university. At one point I had a shipment of rare ish materials going across town. Here comes this 20 year old summer student driver. He proceeds to grab each box and right infront of my eye's no word of a lie...launches the boxes into the cargo area of the van while at least 10 feet away. I went nose to nose with the punk and told him the "contents of those finely packed boxes are worth more than your annual salary." I called Fed Ex that day and we never saw that driver on the University campus again.

I do read that alot of folks simply do not ship to Italy, has this been other peeps experience as well?

Gabe

[mb_c11]

The problem with cardboard is that it often will still bend (a lot), even when you think it won't. I've had boxes show up with pretty big holes in them, and some were made from very thick cardboard or had three layers of 5 mm thick cardboard lining the inside of the box. I remember reading that when sending fragile flat items some people actually put in a piece of wood to keep things from breaking.

Also, AFAIK courrier services and Italy don't mix because the courrier services in Italy like to play footbox with packages.

This also happens with certain courrier services in other countries (eg. parcel farce in the UK, UPS in some parts of the US, etc.) . In most European countries express services suck for the 'service' they deliver and also like to massively overcharge for their 'service', either in actual shipping costs or by adding massive additional charges for declaring packages at customs. Just stick to (registered) Air Mail.

[slam_it_sideways]

I worked in a returns department for 4 years for a big IT company and you soon learn not to be surprised about what couriers can do.

Servers pancaked flat dropped from some high racking, tonnes of server racks would come back all bent up. loads of Pallets stacked with 12 monitors each left outside in the rain for weeks. half eaten lunch inside servers. rude pictures drawn on the box... how do they face the customer with a delivery like that haha. every day was interesting. car keys. loads of rubbish like the boxes are a dustbin, tucked in through the celotape. banana skins stuff like that. bombay mix everywhere. lorry drivers who gorge a chunk out of the side of their load lol.

Its just a shame that it happens to rare and one off items, imagine how many antiques and stuff people have bought on ebay that have been trashed in the post.

Good luck with the claim.

Rich

[taliesin]

I once saw a washing machine - fully crated with heavy duty reinforced cardboard box from the factory - that some nimrod at the warehouse drove a forklift THROUGH. I kid you not: the forks made two openings clear through the box and appliance and came out the other side. The driver accepted it and tried to deliver it with a straight face. I left it sitting on the truck and refused delivery. Here's the kicker: both the driver and the shipper tried to argue that it was somehow my fault that it was damaged, which would have been a more credible argument ... IF I OWNED A FORKLIFT! Which I didn't. Derrrrrr.

I hope you can recover the money from the courier, but I imagine the aggro is going to greatly outweigh the price recovered.

[mickycivic]

There is no excuse for something like this. Some people in this world are complete and utter..... well I cannot say the word I want to use.

Karma - where are you when people need you?!?!

[Tamiya on the Brain]

I know this topic has been discussed before here - http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?...tional+shipping

However, is this ( using Singapore_959's recent mishap) partially the reason ( or not ) that many individuals do not ship international? You see a great deal on ebay but the seller ships only internally( I know many other factors play a role in not posting internationally....additional paperwork, cost,....)?

[kontemax]

Hi People,

I'm from Italy.

Believe me, my country is in a very very sorry state.

Everything is going to the end and I'm speaking about political, social and economical situation.

My country will go to death very soon if situation will not dramatacally change in very close time.

Post service is a minimal part of the problem.

I'm speaking about democracy.

Max

[WillyChang]

dunno about the state of your country, but from all accounts your PM Silvio Berlusconi is one spunky character!!

he would be more interesting than all the world's politicians combined.... ahh except Bill Clinton

... I send everything sold via the courier service that nimrod-racing use for their business.The service has always been exemplary. 15euro for anything up to a certain size in Europe. I even use it for small cheap items. This was the first item I have sent to Italy.

looks like your Dell keyboard got trapped in a door or something guillotine

btw what is "certain size" for EUR15?

if they are generous sized, i'd take the biggest box that fits inside their limits then put your items in

you should see how the factory package parts for Ducati & Aprilia ... huge boxes, lots of foam - even for just 1 rubber gasket

[Origineelreclamebord]

btw what is "certain size" for EUR15?

I think he means that all items to be posted arbroad (within Europe that is then probably) up to a certain weight or size (for example 20 kilograms) will cost the same price to post

[dazaa]

dunno about the state of your country, but from all accounts your PM Silvio Berlusconi is one spunky character!!

he would be more interesting than all the world's politicians combined.... ahh except Bill Clinton

looks like your Dell keyboard got trapped in a door or something guillotine

btw what is "certain size" for EUR15?

if they are generous sized, i'd take the biggest box that fits inside their limits then put your items in

you should see how the factory package parts for Ducati & Aprilia ... huge boxes, lots of foam - even for just 1 rubber gasket

Forget the spares, you should see how they package whole scooters, in wooden crates covered in aprillia branded cardboard...

[WillyChang]

oh i know how they crate the bikes... i live across the road from the dealer!

nah that's nothing - you'll be amazed at the spareparts

they'll take a carton the size of 2 Black Porsche GT01 kits... put in 1 tiny item, then fill with expanding foam

obviously they know its gotta go thru Milan general post office

I think he means that all items to be posted arbroad (within Europe that is then probably) up to a certain weight or size (for example 20 kilograms) will cost the same price to post

exactly... so you'd max out your chances of your item surviving by using the biggest possible box in that same price bracket

[Origineelreclamebord]

exactly... so you'd max out your chances of your item surviving by using the biggest possible box in that same price bracket

I agree it's a good thing to do, but It shouldn't be necessary to do so... And in many countries the postage doesn't allow much more weight than the item+a little packing material or it's in a different weight class already.

Plus let's not forget in this case these chassis plates form the main structure of the car and should be pretty tough... They may be old, but they can't have weakened that much just because they are older, right?

[Singapore_959]

I agree it's a good thing to do, but It shouldn't be necessary to do so... And in many countries the postage doesn't allow much more weight than the item+a little packing material or it's in a different weight class already.

Plus let's not forget in this case these chassis plates form the main structure of the car and should be pretty tough... They may be old, but they can't have weakened that much just because they are older, right?

I'll post up for you the exact sizes but basically its up to about 90cm if I have it correct. I always use huge boxes, but this was just ridiculous to put in a 8 kg size box.

expanding foam is an interesting idea. I wonder how much for a can and how many uses I could get out of it tho.

As long as the food stays the same, I would still enjoy visiting Max ;-)

Anyway, I have, sigh, now already refunded all the money except the transport cost to appease the poor buyer; and will send the 15 courier cost once that is refunded though I doubt I will get the chassis value from the courier insurance back. So just a loss of money. The speed controller also in the box was unaffected so the buyer has got that free now. Such a WASTE!!!

[bruiserbuilder]

I would not ship to Italy for a long time. I found serious issues with the packages arriving literally 3 months late or broken and sometimes both.

One time I lost BIG $$ on an sale though Ebay and Paypal over a mint Bruiser that I mailed to Italy. THE BRUISER NEVER MADE IT TO THE BUYER and Ebay pretty much forced me to pay the buyer back his money. Its been six years now and as far a s I know the Bruiser has yet to turn up.

What did I learn from that experience? Never send a Bruiser oversees during the month of November and I also learned that I do not sell any item out side of the US without offering the buyer insurance and tracking.

If they turn down insurance and its in writing via email, then the damage or non receipt is on them.

aside from that experience, I mailed a package to Italy this past May that did not turn up until early August.

[loaded]

Hi there,

Sorry for your loss, I ship to Italy all the time and have done from Czech and UK. In my experience, if you send something registered letter post you are fine, anything else is a total lottery. In the words of Bill Bryson (written in about '99) Italy has the 5th largest economy in the world. Just think how strong it would be if they could just get themselves organised?

Paul.

[Victorious Secret]

Brother 959,

I'm just gonna come out stright and I'm not gonna apologise for my experiences. I lost over 100 USD (gone) and some model kits similar to your situation. I never post Italy on eBay again and will not purchase from Italy. Nothing personal to Italians, just don't want to deal with the grief.

VS

[WillyChang]

whilst we're on the touchy feely sharing theme... some Italian buyers aren't much better either

i fleabay'd a surplus Hotshot original bodyset in May, sold for $60 & approx $38 airmail postage ALL CLEARLY LISTED UPFRONT

buyer took nearly A WEEK to complete checkout

i packed it well & posted it out insured & registered

guy received it safely... but still dared to lodge a paypal claim for "expensive posting" and claimed for refund of the entire amt paid

(lucky by then i had already zero'd that particular paypal a/c... if paypal didn't judge in my favour, they could go jump)

meh... that really sours dealing with Italians, might change my mind sending things there in future

[Power Surge]

(lucky by then i had already zero'd that particular paypal a/c... if paypal didn't judge in my favour, they could go jump)

You don't need money in your account for Paypal to take it from you. They have the right by their terms that you agreed to pull money out of whatever source you have setup to fund to/from. If your paypal account is zero, they can withdraw funds out of your bank account.

[loaded]

Or credit card....

[Grubby]

I have just read all your comments & you have me worried now as i have just airmailed some items over to italy with all your comments i just hope it gets there, saying this thou were i work we are buying parts & sending them to & from italy & it only takes 3 days & only had a few items have gone missing over the last year but then they are sent by dhl, i am remaining optimistic.

[bruiserbuilder]

DHL, Holy Cow! I bet that is expensive. You should not have any issues with the DHL services because they issue tracking numbers and can locate packages as the arrive and exit each transition point during the journey of the package. The concerns and woes that this topic relates to is the lack of quality service AFTER the package leaves the hands of the USPS.

I can add this bit of information to everyone reading this thread. Ask your buyer if he/ she would like to insure the package? Priority mail international and global express mail include both insurance and tracking.

Its important to know that if a claim is made on priority mail international, the payment of the claim will be made to the buyer and NOT THE SELLER.

further more, 10 years of experience and frustration with either less than honest buyers or horrific international postal carriers has taught me to live and die by the following rules when shipping out side of the us.

1) ask the buyer if they would like to insure the package.

2) have the buyer acknowledge that there is no guarantee of delivery or "survival" if insurance is not purchased.

If the buyer chooses not to purchase insurance

3) keep record of the customs label number

4) purchase a "Certificate of Mailing" from the USPS at the time of shipping. THIS IS PROOF THAT THE ITEM WAS MAILED AND IS BACKED BY THE POST MASTER AS PROOF OF SHIPMENT.

5) print and staple the buyers email stating the package has arrived.

[BruiserBrew]

This is really too bad. Possible to file any claims?

[Kokuzu]

Hi People,

I'm from Italy.

Believe me, my country is in a very very sorry state.

Everything is going to the end and I'm speaking about political, social and economical situation.

My country will go to death very soon if situation will not dramatacally change in very close time.

Post service is a minimal part of the problem.

I'm speaking about democracy.

Max

Ciao and Hello,

I lived and worked in Italy a couple of years.

Even I can partially understand the pain and the hazzle Singapore 959 is going through - loss of vintage can never be replaced by cash alone - I would like point out that - at least in theory - this risk is valid for any Country and delivery.

I purchased a desk top and after it had not arrived for 2 weeks, the seller informed me that the shipping company had used a fork lift to load it to the truck, but unfortunately the fork did not go under the pallet, but right through my desk top. good bye...

Another time the courier threw, yes threw the insured package over the fence and went away. (I should have signed receipt....).

All I want to say is that can happen to anyone.

And yes, Italy is the place where certain things do not work as well as in the rest of the civilized world. But in exchange to that believe me, they know how to live and they work to live and not the other way around. (I know this is no excuse and I whish this damage to none of us!)

Buon giorno a tutti!