Wild Willy Motor

[WEE DAVIE]

Need some help folks. Im restoring a wild willy at moment but the motor is pretty worn out, what other cars did tamiya make that had a motor that would fit in the motor base properley without moving about? I tried a brand new silver can from a tt01 but was no use.

Cheers Davie

[cubsfan2009]

The WW used a standard 540 silvercan motor. Any 540 motor should fit the mounting bracket.

[Jonny Retro]

cubsfan2009, you're right - the WW M38 had a silvercan, and theoretically any silvercan motor should fit - but the motor is held in on both ends on the 'willy - not only is it screwed in at the end you'd expect, but the bearing holder on the connection end is also captive in a plate ...

The problem is that the bearing holder has "shrunk" on sucessive generations of silvercans - on true vintage cars - not just Tamiya, but one Mardave & Schumacher too, probably everything, but I've only measured what I've got the end cap is all plastic (usually black, but some are grey, some "neutral"), with the bearing holder having an outside diameter of 16mm.

The second generation (mid 1990's ?) silvercan has a metal end plate (almost invariably black) with 4 large plastic inserts, and the bearing holder is 13mm O/D.

Just about every silvercan made from the late 90's on has an all-metal endplate (usually black, but sometimes just grey), with a bearing holder of 10.25(?)mm O/D - this is too small, and the motor, which is already a pretty sloppy fit due to the weird gearbox arrangement, will flap about all over the shop ...

So, Davie, you either need to make a spacer up, or you need to get a vintage silvercan - put up a wanted ad & ask for the measurement before you accept any offers?

nb - I haven't made a great study of silvercans - this is just my observations - if anyone has a complete technical history of silvercan motors, be my guest ...

[Live Steam Mad]

It's quite simple really, all you need is a Mabuchi RS540S which is the 540 sized silver coloured can motor with the black plastic endbell . Simply ask the seller whether it has a black plastic endbell and the Mabuchi name moulded into the endbell and you'll be sorted. This is the vintage silvercan in you need for Wild Willy 1.

The modern silvercans are the Johnson 540J or the Mabuchi RS540SH with the metal endbell, neither of which are suitable.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[fritjofarnold]

Do you also have the right pinion on the motor and using the motor collars (two small bearings, these are not shown on the SWB manual here on Tamiyaclub)?

Fritjof

[Live Steam Mad]

BTW Seem to remember that WW1 motor has a pinion fit onto the shaft and you can't swap the pinion over between motors without difficulty. Or is my memory letting me down again?

Cheers,

ARG

[WW-nut]

Sorry I can't think of any alternatives.

The WW1 motor does come with a pinion attached to it; a Willy's Wheeler, Ascona, and Audi Rally all have the same motor but a different sized pinion so cannot be used. Might be worth making a wanted advert on TC, or just keep checking Ebay.

Hope you are enjoying your resto

[tramsnod]

Hi guy's

The pinion is a press fit and can be "gently" prised off using a fair bit of persuasion.

Personally I have used a large screw driver to get underneath and prise it off.

Good luck with your resto

[WEE DAVIE]

Thanks for the help guys, ye got a new pinion and the bearings as well. Does any one have a vintage motor that they would want to sell to me?

Cheers Davie

[tramsnod]

Well, it certainly went quiet when you asked for a motor.

Best bet is to try ebay, there's a few listed at the moment although mostly used.

[WEE DAVIE]

Ye it has gone a bit quiet, Saw a few on e bay but the prob wont be much better than the one ive got, realy looking for one that never been used.

Anyone?

[WW-nut]

Ye it has gone a bit quiet, Saw a few on e bay but the prob wont be much better than the one ive got, realy looking for one that never been used.

Anyone?

A new one will be extremely hard to find, and probably quite expensive.

What is wrong with the current motor, I ask as if it's just the grey heat shrink covering which is the problem you can buy new (old stock) ones. They are contained within the Wild Willy 1 tool bag; just type "Wild Willy tool bag" in the search function on Ebay and you should be lucky.

[europro975]

Will this do

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tamiya-Rough-Rider-S...id=p3286.c0.m14

Antony

[WEE DAVIE]

Cheers lads. The moter just seems tired, it feels like it takes ages to get up to full speed and the car doesnt pull wheelies like it should.

Davie

[Live Steam Mad]

Cheers lads. The moter just seems tired, it feels like it takes ages to get up to full speed and the car doesnt pull wheelies like it should.

Davie

If you have access to a comm. lathe, take the endbell off carefully and give the brushes a sandpapering and then give the commutator a skim until you see fresh copper. Can't remember for now what the brushes look like on a stock kit 540 but basic full face brushes on modified motors have a Copper-Carbon finish so you never quite get rid of the slightly dark matt copper look.

Unless it has been run very hot at multiple times in it's life and the magnets have lost their strength!

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[WW-nut]

Cheers lads. The moter just seems tired, it feels like it takes ages to get up to full speed and the car doesnt pull wheelies like it should.

Davie

Hi Davie,

Could it be the motor is fine, but the battery isn't holding much charge - are you using a 20+ year old battery?

Nige

[WEE DAVIE]

Hi Nige

Its a brand new battery ive been using.Its a 2700mah hump back

[Live Steam Mad]

Hi Nige

Its a brand new battery ive been using.Its a 2700mah hump back

If the brushes when / if you check them are purple / dark at the edges coming back from the tip, then the motor has been very hot at some time which will damage the magnets. In which case, the lubricant will have gone from the brushes (so I have read, but I still don't understand that one, would anyone care to explain?) and any further running will score the comm. badly so in that case it will need new brushes and a skim of the comm. But even then if the magnets have been damaged too much it will have a weak magnetic field and a lot of the motor's punch will be gone. Since it is designed to be a throw away motor, it's then verging on a chuck it away job (but don't forget to remove the pinion LOL).

Regards,

Alistair G.

[WEE DAVIE]

Was talking to a guy who is a member of the same clissic car club that i am in (real cars) we were talking about another member who restores old riley cars, and that he makes a lot of parts himself as there are very few spares for them. He also mentioned that he has a lathe and can make just about anything on it. So my plan is the next time i see him my going to ask him if he can make a spacer for me so i can fit a new moter in the gear box.

[Live Steam Mad]

Was talking to a guy who is a member of the same clissic car club that i am in (real cars) we were talking about another member who restores old riley cars, and that he makes a lot of parts himself as there are very few spares for them. He also mentioned that he has a lathe and can make just about anything on it. So my plan is the next time i see him my going to ask him if he can make a spacer for me so i can fit a new moter in the gear box.

Hehe I chuckled at this. I know a guy called Wilf Britch and he fits that description so perfectly I thought for a moment you meant him but probably not as I am sure there are quite a few restorers of Riley cars out there.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[WEE DAVIE]

Hehe I chuckled at this. I know a guy called Wilf Britch and he fits that description so perfectly I thought for a moment you meant him but probably not as I am sure there are quite a few restorers of Riley cars out there.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

Hay nope not the same guy, the guy im talking about is called Ian Drumand, he was also my metal work teacher when i was at school many years ago.

Cheers Davie

[WillyChang]

Cheers lads. The moter just seems tired, it feels like it takes ages to get up to full speed and the car doesnt pull wheelies like it should.

the motor can be dismantled if you know what you're doing... but if not, don't bother

(the pinion has to come off to comm-lathe the motor... which is 90% of the challenge)

try water dipping ...

remove motor

inspect thru side holes that the brushes are present on the spring arms, nothing broken or missing

connect to 2 or 3 cells (2.4-3.6V) and run it underwater for a minute or 3... lots of black gunk will get flushed out

spray it out with WD40 (stop rust) and degrease with motorspray (remove oily mess) then relube the 2 bushings

reinstall

[WillyChang]

Was talking to a guy who is a member of the same clissic car club that i am in (real cars) we were talking about another member who restores old riley cars, and that he makes a lot of parts himself as there are very few spares for them. He also mentioned that he has a lathe and can make just about anything on it. So my plan is the next time i see him my going to ask him if he can make a spacer for me so i can fit a new moter in the gear box.

depending on 540 motor you buy, you will probably need to mod both front & rear (L&R) carriers... they've both shrunk on later motors

cutting a spacer is possible, but will be a fine job - you'll need to lip/flange it so it doesn't fall out

could be a better idea perhaps to mod the motor carrier instead...

eg cut a metal disc size of the hole, JBweld it in then drill out the size of hole you need.

Can be done with handtools, no shoplathe needed.

Might need to make your pinion removable though.

If you're serious about spending money... could also go look for a early original Tamiya

Black 540SD (red endbell) or Black Sprint or Endurance (blue endbell)

they've got the right sized mounting points and they drop straight into WW1

[WEE DAVIE]

Thanks for the info Willychang. Could you give me any tips on how to open the motor up?

Cheers Davie

[WillyChang]

opening it up is not hard... just lift the 2 tabs on the can folded over onto the black endbell

(probably be gunked up with dirt/grit/rust too jamming the bell on)

but putting it back together might be tricky -

wouldn't recommend opening the can except as a last resort!!

you can't buy any motor spareparts anyway, only source is butchering another similar motor

i have revived many half-dead motors with waterdipping, its the safest & easiest trick to try first

a stock WW1 goes plenty quick... quicker than a WW2 with stock 540!