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Sand Scorcher 2009

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Would you consider it believable that Ford would still have the patterns for the Ford Cortina? If no, then why would Tamiya store sets of worn out moulds for 20 years for cars they had no intention of remaking?

It's always been the biggest argument that Tamiya can re-release something, that they "must still have the moulds" without considering why on earth any business would want to hang on to piles and piles of worn out lumps of steel for years, long after the machines they were designed for have been replaced - and don't even think of suggesting Tamiya are still using the same moulding machines they had 20 years ago. It would still be cheaper for Tamiya to start again than to refurbish the patterns and adapt them for their current moulders.

If Tamiya has a vaild business reason for rereleasing a car they will, if they don't think it's commercially viable we won't see it. It's as simple as that.

I accept the 1st point. But Ford is not Tamiya and Ford are not about to re-release a Fiesta MK1 (although it would look cute next to my MK6 LOL) whereas Tamiya have rereleased the Rough Rider body just about identical to the original, and they look to have done these re-releases from the original moulds in many cases.

For example, the tooling marks on many of the re-release parts are exactly the same as those on the original release parts, I should know, I've seen them in the flesh.

So the moulds in those cases were kept for donkey's years before being used again.

The old moulds therefore must have been compatible with the injection moulding machines that they are currently using, and if not then maybe for all I know they are using quite old moulding machines! One of these two has to be true!

Anyway I reckon they do have the moulds for a lot of original parts from many years ago. Maybe not all of them but quite a few. So we'll have to beg to differ on that point I suppose.

Also you say that the old moulds will be worn out. Not necessarily true either. If the exact same moulding marks are on the new release parts as on the parts from many years ago then the same mould is being used, surely!?

You mentioned quite a while back that the injection moulding tooling can last for more than 50,000 parts or more without significant deterioration, if I remember right. Well they can't all be worn out then, can they?

I think we'll have to differ on this and be done with it. Not much point arguing about it anyway now since the "Sand Scorcher" would appear now to be a significantly different shape than the original, in my mind, so the question of the body mould is kind of irrelevant now.

And of course the reason that I was following this topic up to now is that I was rather hoping that the body would be re-issued identical to the original but my hopes have been dashed.

I am also entitled to my opinions, as are you to yours.

Regards,

Alistair G.

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OK guys for better or for worse I just e-mailed Tamiya Japan directly with this ;-

"Dear Sirs, I wish to urgently bring to your attention an issue regarding the Sand Scorcher re-release, item 58452. It is very important that this e-mail and information reaches your design department. I see from online pictures that the CEO of Tamiya Germany was pictured with a prototype bodyshell for the Sand Scorcher re-release. PLEASE NOTE that this prototype bodyshell HAS NOT got anywhere near the same shaped wings / fenders as the original Sand Scorcher body shell. This can be checked by having a look at the Sand Scorcher original body in your Tamiya museum at your HQ. There are many of us on TamiyaClub (www.tamiyaclub.com) who have now seen this prototype body and are VERY dissappointed that the bodyshell is not going to have anywhere near the same wing / fender shape as the original Sand Scorcher body. The page where we are discussing it has had 25,000+ views and over 25 pages of replies from many many of your potential customers for this product including me. We would be grateful if you could ask the person in charge of this project to please reconsider and release the Sand Scorcher body exactly the same as the original. If a bodyshell is needed to mould from, we can supply you with a new condition bodyshell from year 1979 from one of our collector friends, I am pretty sure. We club members would bend over backwards to help you out in this regard I feel. (Although please note that I am merely a Tamiya Club member and cannot claim to speak for the club itself which is technically privately owned by one person I believe). Indeed since the Rough Rider (the Sand Scorcher's "brother") also from 1979 was recently re-released as "Buggy Champ" with the exact same body as the 1979 original, it seems a terrible pity that the re-release "Sand Scorcher" will be significantly different in body shape to the original. Please if you are an office worker reading this pass it to the person highest in authority in Tamiya Japan as it is a rather important matter for your company and potential customers. I would also really appreciate any feedback about this matter from the person in charge of the project.

Yours Sincerely,

Alistair Gutcher"

Well it cost me nothing to do so, and if the decision is now irreversible, so be it. But I have to try, it's a very important issue for me as it is my all time favourite model and has been since I was 7 years old, and I'm 35 now.

LOL.

Cheers.

ARG.

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And I would be absolutely delighted to be proved completely wrong on 21st if the fair pictures show the proper SS as being the one for production. Boy do I wish that were true.. I'd be so happy!

Maybe I am naiive thinking for a minute that me e-mail to Tamiya would change anything at all... but I had to try... it's a concience thing...

Regards,

Alistair G.

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Hmmm got to say I'm on Terry's side of the fence here.

Everyone seemed so chuffed when the BC came out, even though it was clearly different to the original but that didn't seem to matter much. I'm a little surprised so many people are expecting the SS10 to be a carbon copy of the original, which practically isn't a sensible business model; if you have similar parts available you won't push up production costs trying to recreate the originals.

The SS10 (can I patent that as the new moniker for the rere? :lol: ) will be bought by a smaller number of die hard Tamiyaheads who hold the original SS in such high esteem compared to the wider market, where most new purchasers won't give a monkey's that the shell doesn't have the same flared arches and the nose cone is joined to the body (which quite a number of people do anyway).

The boffins at Tamiya have done their research and are offering the best product to the market and the best price point to make the most sales. I'm a bit saddened it's not going to be to everyone's liking after seeing fellow TCers get so hyped, but I hope people warm to it and adds at least one to their collection.

Will I buy one? I think so, but I've just shelled out on my first Scorchers not three weeks before this was announced and I want to finish them first so that's where my aim is. Bit miffed at first but in hindsight not any more, as the SS10 (there we go again) was never going to be completely the same as the original.

And I'll leave you with something to mull over. BMW rereleased the Mini a few years ago and look what turned up. Fans of the original screamed blue murder, but it has sold in shedloads to a younger market who prob never drove in the original matchbox sized version.

Cheers all

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Tamiya are fully aware of differences between the Sand Scorcher and the later Monster Beetle / Blitzer Beetle Shells, there certainly not going to be any changes at this stage in the production cycle. I would imagine they discussed points both for and against re-releasing the original shell. I don't think it is related to whether or not the original moulds are still available and/or if they are in a condition to be re-used. Technique's now compared to the late 70's/ early 80's are far better and cheaper if Tamiya wanted to retool and create a new Die it wouldn't be too much of a problem. I'm still positive that a Monster Beetle / Blitzer shell will accompany the Sand Scorcher 2010 and I think Tamiya have deliberately chosen this path to ensure there is some exclusiveness to the original, ultimately it's not going to hinder their sales at all. The other thing to consider is that this model isn't solely getting released to ensure us collectors have an accurate 1979 version of the Sand Scorcher but for a far wider audience who want a realistic Beetle based beach buggy. The vast majority of new Sand Scorcher 2010 owners are not going to be aware of this discussion and/or care if the guards aren't as flared as the original. I paid less for my original Sand Scorcher than what the re-release will be... if you're not prepared to hunt, find, restore or pay the money for an original Sand Scorcher body shell you probably don't want an original Sand Scorcher badly enough. If you can overlook that the majority of the re-re chassis components have been reworked you can't really complain that the body shell isn't like the original. Years ago we didn't think we'd even be as even as fortunate as we are today with the Buggy Camp and SS 2010. Despite the couple of compromises I think Tamiya have been doing a great job to play middle of the road ensuring new customers have cool new retro products as well as not completely walking over the many people who've gone to quite some trouble and expense to collect and restore true originals.

James

BeetleLover

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>The vast majority of new Sand Scorcher 2010 owners are not going to be aware of this discussion and/or care if the guards aren't as flared as the original.

James

BeetleLover

Yeah point taken I guess. Oh well, that's life.

I wonder what Tamiya's reasons were for not doing the original shell. I cannot understand it since they reissued the RR exactly like the original so how is that not "offending" Rough Rider owners?

In any case I mostly could not care less about who Tamiya offends by the release of reissue models, and if I were in charge I would have released every kit exactly the same as the original.

LOL.

Regards,

Alistair G.

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I wonder what Tamiya's reasons were for not doing the original shell. I cannot understand it since they reissued the RR exactly like the original so how is that not "offending" Rough Rider owners?

I've been looking at a Rough Rider shell and a Buggy Champ shell side by side and I really can't see any differences (apart from the lettering on the inside). As far I can see they have the same length, height, width and colour. So why not do the same with the Scorcher? Enquiring minds want to know! :D

I'm still hoping that the shell we've seen thus far is just a red herring. Hopefully we'll all see pics from the fair and go "All hail Tamiya!" when they reveal the final release version of the shell complete with flared arches and all the seperate chrome pieces that we know and love.

Everyone seemed so chuffed when the BC came out, even though it was clearly different to the original but that didn't seem to matter much.

I thought we were just discussing the shell, weren't we? Personally I was a little miffed because I'd gotten more than halfway through my Scorcher project when I heard the news of the re-re Rough Rider. No matter though as I'd bought into it anyway, if only to see the differences. Now I'm near to the end of the project the re-re Sand Scorcher has been anounced and the parts that made the Scorcher what it is, the unique design of the bodyshell with all the detailing bits 'n pieces that defined it as something different, looks to be changed. As a collector I should be happy because the original shells I have will stand out when put next to them. But I'm not. Honestly, when it comes to the shell I want a re-release Sand Scorcher, not a re-imagined one. :)

if you're not prepared to hunt, find, restore or pay the money for an original Sand Scorcher body shell you probably don't want an original Sand Scorcher badly enough.

:lol:

Isn't that a little harsh, dude? Hunting down an original shell is hard enough but having the skills to restore a beat up shell isn't always in a RC enthusiast's skill set and having the money to pay for a decent shell that you don't need to restore is, for most of us in the current financial climate, quite a bit out of reach. Like a lot of people I barely make enough to get on with life and the little I do have spare isn't enough to justify my wants let alone pay for them. If not willing to sacrifice stuff I literally need to survive equates to not wanting it badly enough then I'm kinda glad I'm not the kind of person who can justify that level of our RC obsession. You might be willing to go that far and, if you are, you have my sympathy.

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if it doesnt have the full width arches i probably wont be buying one then, i'll be happy with my runner old scorcher..

i couldnt give a stuff about the door handles etc, but the arches.. well.. the BB type arches look really **** compared to the SS ones!

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The body should be as per the original, arches, blinkers, mirrors, everything. No question.

If they want to change it they can put "VW racing buggy 2010" inside it.....but thats all they would be allowed to change in my opinion.

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Having the original moulds is not an issue. You can easily rebuild the original in cad and create a mould. I cant believe how many people are getting their knickers in a twist over a small low quality picture posted on a blog. If its slightly different I would assume it would be due to licensing other than any other issues. Personally I think a nice scorcher2 would be more exciting if Tamiya tried to build a new beach buggy with modern design components that would handle well etc.

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Having the original moulds is not an issue. You can easily rebuild the original in cad and create a mould. I cant believe how many people are getting their knickers in a twist over a small low quality picture posted on a blog. If its slightly different I would assume it would be due to licensing other than any other issues. Personally I think a nice scorcher2 would be more exciting if Tamiya tried to build a new beach buggy with modern design components that would handle well etc.

I also personally think that licensing has played some part in it but I can't really see how licensing has anything to do with the wing shape? I just can't understand what Tamiya's thinking is on this one...

Also the thought just occured to me as I looked across at my Rough Rider body box set with it's monochrome sticker on the end and it's boring beige box... and then looked at my original release Rough Rider and Scorcher body box sets with the beautiful 1979 box art ... why doesn't Tamiya give us the body and parts in a brown paper bag and have done with it ?! :lol:

Seriously the lack of box art on the body box really peeves me, I find it sickening. It dilutes the Tamiya brand in my eyes. So did reissuing the Hilux with a plastic gearbox and re-issue of the "Scorcher" with a MB type body is just about the straw that broke the camel's back. Sorry for the rant but I am rather upset over this.

Just my own opinions...

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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I cant believe how many people are getting their knickers in a twist over a small low quality picture posted on a blog.

Once you know the shell shape so well that it's burned into your brain, and once you have seen the original side by side with the MB or BB in the flesh, you can then understand and spot straight away when you see a MB / BB wing shaped shell in a picture. The picture doesn't have to be of such fantastic quality for it to stand out a mile.

Just to be sure I held up my original at the same angle as the CEO was holding it and the wings on mine looked to be a completely different shape to those in the picture, it was just so obvious to me.

I hope to goodness that that shell is merely one of a few variations but I very much doubt it. I think that the decision has already been taken and we're stuck with it. I just go by how my luck normally works out which is usually about right i.e. usually bad!

Maybe if sufficient numbers of fans of the original feel strongly enough and contact Tamiya Japan about it then they might consider doing something about it.

I can only urge Tamiya fans world wide to do as I did and use tamiya.com to write a message to Tamiya Japan directly and then maybe Tamiya will finally understand the depth of feeling out there about this as at the moment I get the feeling that "they still just don't **** get it!". Sorry but that's my frustration talking again. LOL.

Hey it costs nothing to contact them and only takes a minute. Would be worth it if they changed it at the last minute, wouldn't it?! Think how pleased and relieved some of us would be!

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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I'm still positive that a Monster Beetle / Blitzer shell will accompany the Sand Scorcher 2010 and I think Tamiya have deliberately chosen this path to ensure there is some exclusiveness to the original, ultimately it's not going to hinder their sales at all.

James

BeetleLover

Sorry but I disagree. I think this decision will hurt their sales. The interesting question is, to what extent. People with the original will not want a modern vague imitation. People who want the original again will not want this one.

I admit that your average customer picked off the steet will not care as they wouldn't know about the original 1979 one anyway...

Regards,

ARG.

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Having the original moulds is not an issue. You can easily rebuild the original in cad and create a mould. I cant believe how many people are getting their knickers in a twist over a small low quality picture posted on a blog. If its slightly different I would assume it would be due to licensing other than any other issues. Personally I think a nice scorcher2 would be more exciting if Tamiya tried to build a new beach buggy with modern design components that would handle well etc.

You know a funny thought occurs to me. Why not reproduce the original ourselves? All we need is access to a laser scanner, an awesome CAD person, a CAM machine and an injection moulding facility! If the shell looked better than Tamiya's SS2010 then we would have more than a few sales!

LOL.

Cheers,

ARG

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The body should be as per the original, arches, blinkers, mirrors, everything. No question.

If they want to change it they can put "VW racing buggy 2010" inside it.....but thats all they would be allowed to change in my opinion.

W O T

H E

S A I D :lol:

Well said! Gets my vote!

Best Regards,

Alistair G.

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If they want to bring out a custom bug, why don't Tamiya go the whole hog and make one like Volksrod's marvellous creations! Instead of ruining the original!

Cheers,

ARG

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Live Steem Mad!!! Breath, breath for the love of god!!! :lol::):D:P

Let's see... Why would Tamiya HQ send a white body to germany for someone to show someone whos building a full scale SS?

Why not boxart painted?

It doesn't look right in my mind!

And why would Tamiya mold it with the nosecone and body as one piece?

The "line" over the bonnet are the actual bonnet on the real baja bug!!!

As in this picture:

portascapo023.jpg

(pic from topolino@ scale 4x4 RC)

So it doesn't make any sens to me!!!

Yes I got really upset when I first saw the pic but I'll wait till the day it arrives at the fair!!!

Till then I hold my hopes in a firm grip!

Live Steem Mad, I understand your feelings but we don't know yet. (Thankfully)

So let us all take a step back and breath, and start over again... Shall we?

I'm still hoping!

Badboy

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Sorry but I disagree. I think this decision will hurt their sales. The interesting question is, to what extent. People with the original will not want a modern vague imitation. People who want the original again will not want this one.

I admit that your average customer picked off the steet will not care as they wouldn't know about the original 1979 one anyway...

Regards,

ARG.

If the Bug Box crew are correct and Tamiya are only doing one run of Sand Scorcher 2010 they'll sell out completely regardless of which style of arches are on it... The enthusiasts on Tamiyaclub and the Forums account only for a modest % of the total market and that said there will be many here who'll still buy one if the arches are MB/BB...

regards

James

BeetleLover

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If the Bug Box crew are correct and Tamiya are only doing one run of Sand Scorcher 2010 they'll sell out completely regardless of which style of arches are on it... The enthusiasts on Tamiyaclub and the Forums account only for a modest % of the total market and that said there will be many here who'll still buy one if the arches are MB/BB...

regards

James

BeetleLover

Point taken.

Cheers,

ARG

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Let's see... Why would Tamiya HQ send a white body to germany for someone to show someone whos building a full scale SS?

Why not boxart painted?

Badboy

If you're working on the Bodyshape of a form and want reference generally you want something that is one solid colour, being painted and with decals could in fact be a distraction if shape and form is the objective...

regards

James

BeetleLover

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What worries me is that Tamiya still releases old models...

Is that a sign for a decreasing market?

Why, in the name of...well, let's say "Tamiya", does a company releases an old concept?

To please us?

I don't think so.

Tamiya is a company and needs customers (with money, not vintage collections).

It could well be, Tamiya needs cash in this niche market and that's what's, I think, it is all about.

So, with the popularity of the vintage SRB's, the SS in particular, it is our own achievement when you think about it...

Still, in the years, Tamiya has shown respect to most of the originals (by making small differences to the re-re's, but that makes it even harder to spot an original).

The best thing Tamiya did to celebrate their 30th anniversary was the release of the 1/10 Porsche 934 in a special box.

It was no re-re, it was a brand NEW design!

That's what I like!

New and progressive.

Even more important: the original is still special!

This in contradiction of the re-re of the Black Porsche body which made some of us very, very sick...

Another re-re example: why do you think Tamiya still produces the 1/12 Porsche 935 static kit over and over again?

because it sells...

Only an expert can spot the difference between the boxes.

Stop buying it and the RC version will be special again one day...

Buy it and Tamiya will not be bankrupt...(I have an eye laying on another niche market called "Märklin"...).

Final word: I'm not happy with the re-re's as I go for "original" and therefore "special"...

Grtz Dee.

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Live Steem Mad!!! Breath, breath for the love of god!!! :lol::):D:P

Let's see... Why would Tamiya HQ send a white body to germany for someone to show someone whos building a full scale SS?

Why not boxart painted?

It doesn't look right in my mind!

And why would Tamiya mold it with the nosecone and body as one piece?

The "line" over the bonnet are the actual bonnet on the real baja bug!!!

As in this picture:

portascapo023.jpg

(pic from topolino@ scale 4x4 RC)

So it doesn't make any sens to me!!!

Yes I got really upset when I first saw the pic but I'll wait till the day it arrives at the fair!!!

Till then I hold my hopes in a firm grip!

Live Steem Mad, I understand your feelings but we don't know yet. (Thankfully)

So let us all take a step back and breath, and start over again... Shall we?

I'm still hoping!

Badboy

WOW now that is one cool picture. My goodness the bug is cute with the "correct" wings!!

OK Badboy I'll wait and see but I'm not going to keep my hopes up much!

I do hope that there is a big reaction from the fans of the original and Tamiya change their minds.

I would love you to be absolutely correct Badboy, I can't wait to get my hands on a pristine new original shaped SS shell.

Cheers,

ARG

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If they want to bring out a custom bug, why don't Tamiya go the whole hog and make one like Volksrod's marvellous creations! Instead of ruining the original!

Cheers,

ARG

Wow, 5 posts in a row, thats got to be a new record :lol:

I really do not care what version we get. I still consider it to be an addition of the SRB family rather than a Scorcher "replacement". (as with the Buggy Champ that turned out to be very different from the Rough Rider).

Either way, we get cheap Sand Scorcher bashers that looks fairly identical to the original.

Jimmy

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What worries me is that Tamiya still releases old models...

It's the complete reverse for me :lol: !

I get frustrated when I think why Kyosho won't re-issue Optima and Ultima and why AE won't re-issue the RC10 gold tub version with all original box arts and packaging!

Best Regards,

Alistair G.

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It's the complete reverse for me :lol: !

I get frustrated when I think why Kyosho won't re-issue Optima and Ultima and why AE won't re-issue the RC10 gold tub version with all original box arts and packaging!

Best Regards,

Alistair G.

I don't think you got my drift...

The Kyosho Optima/Ultima is still very collectible and "special" to you, right?

I think you just gave the answer youself! :)

Grtz Dee.

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