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Sand Scorcher 2009

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It's quite apparent that there is no way Tamiya could please all of us so whatever happens happens... Buy Old, Buy New, Restore... Buy the Scorcher that suits you the Most!

James

BeetleLover

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Just wondered, and forgive me if someone has already asked this, but what was the reason that they changed the arch shape between the SS and the MB in the first place

I can see the point in altering the door handles (how many originals have handles missing). Think I'll be sitting this one out either way.

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Just wondered, and forgive me if someone has already asked this, but what was the reason that they changed the arch shape between the SS and the MB in the first place

I can see the point in altering the door handles (how many originals have handles missing). Think I'll be sitting this one out either way.

Just had a look at my Monster Beetle, with a Scorcher shell the wheels still have plenty of clearance so it wasn't a matter of striking or rubbing. I suspect it had more to do with roll overs and breaking of the arches, shortening them up gave them a bit more strength. Perhaps this has influenced Tamiya to go with short arches this time around on Scorcher 2010, less likely to strike the ground and get broken which on an RC car is quite a consideration.

regards

James

BeetleLover

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Perhaps this has influenced Tamiya to go with short arches this time around on Scorcher 2010, less likely to strike the ground and get broken which on an RC car is quite a consideration.

regards

James

BeetleLover

If it got broken Tamiya would sell more... :lol:

Badboy

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Just had a look at my Monster Beetle, with a Scorcher shell the wheels still have plenty of clearance so it wasn't a matter of striking or rubbing. I suspect it had more to do with roll overs and breaking of the arches, shortening them up gave them a bit more strength.

Good point on a MB since the body is high up on the chassis.

However if Tamiya didn't want the end user to suffer easy damages, why injection mould the Buggy Champ roll cage and roof that breaks so easily? Why not just make it out of Lexan instead and package it in a brown bag !

I think that they went with slim arches with the MB simply to give it a sleeker and cooler look. The SS wings had too much "character" next to the monster chassis and tyres I feel.

But on the stock SRB chasssis only the original SS body looks right to me, the arches make the "character" of the buggy and is a big part of the overall look of the car in my eyes and I suspect is an important part of what makes the car the Holy Grail to a lot of us!

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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So what, if it really is a reworked BB/MB shell. We still get a nearly identical looking Scorcher, and the hard (fun/pleasing) work restoring original shells will still be worth while.

Im not one bit surprised though, considering all the subtle differences in the chassis. They surely had the intention we should be able to spot a rere from the original. Maybe out of respect of collectors.

Jimmy

I wonder what Tamiya's reasons were for not doing the original shell. I cannot understand it since they reissued the RR exactly like the original so how is that not "offending" Rough Rider owners?
Why, in the name of...well, let's say "Tamiya", does a company releases an old concept?

To please us?

I don't think so.

Still, in the years, Tamiya has shown respect to most of the originals (by making small differences to the re-re's, but that makes it even harder to spot an original).

People need to wake up and smell the coffee....the reason why Tamiya started the re-release boom in 2004 and continue to do it comes down to one word. MONEY.

They saw that there was a way of making easy bank thanks to a new niche for the reintroduction of classic buggies which had become expensive collectors items for a rapidly growing army of followers, mainly in their 30s who had owned the cars in their teenage years in the 1980s. Tamiya looked at what they could possibly bring back to the market that would sell well without damaging sales of their other kits and would also not damage the brand in any way. Crucially, they looked to do it with the SMALLEST COSTS involved.

All of the re-releases and any design changes have been based on this approach. Do not for one minute think that any changes that came with the re-releases were made to appease collectors and show respect to the original design. The truth is that the company could not give two hoots to what the collectors think, infact it probably irks them that people have been making thousands of $$$$ out of something they themselves brought to the market.

The small differences we have seen in the Hornet, Grasshopper, Frog, Brat, Hotshot, Boomerang, Buggy Champ and now Scorcher have been made for two reasons....

1) To keep costs down, ie refusing to renew old licencing & sponsorship deals...hence changes to decals and removal of tyre lettering.

2) To bring the car design up to date with 21st century standards, ie allowance for the fitment of ESCs, eradicating well known areas of severe wear and tear.

This policy seems now to be continuing with the SS10. Tamiya want to bring this thing out with as little financial cost to the company as possible. Therefore they see that they already have the Blitzer Beetle moulds widely available and instead of forking out more $$$ to recreate the form of the Scorcher body they have decided to simply mod the Blitzer moulds to accomodate fitment to the SRB chassis.

This adds weight to the argument by some that the old moulds from the 1980s are long gone. Personally I only half believe that. I think that whichever moulds from 20 to 30 years ago that were not worn out or damaged have been kept. It is my belief that the Buggy Champ was constructed from a mixture of old and new moulds.

Unfortunately the original mould for the Scorcher body seem to have been long gone. Who knows?....maybe the reason that the MB/BB shell is different is because the Scorcher body mould was somehow destroyed in the 80s and had to be recreated.

One thing is certain though. The SS10 body will have been created with cost primarily in mind. Our views are important to them, but not THAT important.

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WOW now that is one cool picture. My goodness the bug is cute with the "correct" wings!!

OK Badboy I'll wait and see but I'm not going to keep my hopes up much!

I do hope that there is a big reaction from the fans of the original and Tamiya change their minds.

I would love you to be absolutely correct Badboy, I can't wait to get my hands on a pristine new original shaped SS shell.

Cheers,

ARG

Check it out!!!

http://www.scale4x4rc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38238

Badboy

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That's 50p for the use of "SS10" please Wandy :lol:

That orange Scorcher is something else Badboy, all that effort into making something look so trashed it looks brilliant.

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That's 50p for the use of "SS10" please Wandy :lol:

The cheque is in the post. :)

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Final word: I'm not happy with the re-re's as I go for "original" and therefore "special"...

Grtz Dee.

I am also an "orginal" kind of guy as well. But an original will always be an original so I'm not too concerned with the rereleases as they always have small differences. Affect value of orginals ? Yes but some will still always pay. I myself just snagged an original NIB Hornet because I wasn't satisfied with the rerelease :lol:.

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People need to wake up and smell the coffee....the reason why Tamiya started the re-release boom in 2004 and continue to do it comes down to one word. MONEY.

They saw that there was a way of making easy bank thanks to a new niche for the reintroduction of classic buggies which had become expensive collectors items for a rapidly growing army of followers, mainly in their 30s who had owned the cars in their teenage years in the 1980s. Tamiya looked at what they could possibly bring back to the market that would sell well without damaging sales of their other kits and would also not damage the brand in any way. Crucially, they looked to do it with the SMALLEST COSTS involved.

All of the re-releases and any design changes have been based on this approach. Do not for one minute think that any changes that came with the re-releases were made to appease collectors and show respect to the original design. The truth is that the company could not give two hoots to what the collectors think, infact it probably irks them that people have been making thousands of $$$$ out of something they themselves brought to the market.

The small differences we have seen in the Hornet, Grasshopper, Frog, Brat, Hotshot, Boomerang, Buggy Champ and now Scorcher have been made for two reasons....

1) To keep costs down, ie refusing to renew old licencing & sponsorship deals...hence changes to decals and removal of tyre lettering.

2) To bring the car design up to date with 21st century standards, ie allowance for the fitment of ESCs, eradicating well known areas of severe wear and tear.

This policy seems now to be continuing with the SS10. Tamiya want to bring this thing out with as little financial cost to the company as possible. Therefore they see that they already have the Blitzer Beetle moulds widely available and instead of forking out more $$$ to recreate the form of the Scorcher body they have decided to simply mod the Blitzer moulds to accomodate fitment to the SRB chassis.

This adds weight to the argument by some that the old moulds from the 1980s are long gone. Personally I only half believe that. I think that whichever moulds from 20 to 30 years ago that were not worn out or damaged have been kept. It is my belief that the Buggy Champ was constructed from a mixture of old and new moulds.

Unfortunately the original mould for the Scorcher body seem to have been long gone. Who knows?....maybe the reason that the MB/BB shell is different is because the Scorcher body mould was somehow destroyed in the 80s and had to be recreated.

One thing is certain though. The SS10 body will have been created with cost primarily in mind. Our views are important to them, but not THAT important.

That was a well balanced and reasoned post I feel. About sums it up really. Pity really that Tamiya didn't go just that extra mile and make everything original. Yes I suppose it's down to money in the end.

Oh well.

Regards,

Alistair G.

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OMG there are not words to describe how amazing that is!

Now THAT is what Tamiya should be doing... Pushing the State Of The Art and not giving us watered down things like the plastic gearbox'ed Hilux!

Imagine what it would be like if, instead of the SS2010 turning out to be a MB, it was instead revealed to be similar in construction to the above shell, wings exactly like the original SS, but with the ADDITION of having a floorpan, double skinned structure just like a real Beetle, opening bonnet and doors, an internal roll cage, seats, fire extunguishers, moulded VW engine in the back :o:mellow:

Sorry I started to drool there. I am a scale man at heart. LOL.

Thanks for sharing,

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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if you're not prepared to hunt, find, restore or pay the money for an original Sand Scorcher body shell you probably don't want an original Sand Scorcher badly enough.

Isn't that a little harsh, dude? Hunting down an original shell is hard enough but having the skills to restore a beat up shell isn't always in a RC enthusiast's skill set and having the money to pay for a decent shell that you don't need to restore is, for most of us in the current financial climate, quite a bit out of reach. Like a lot of people I barely make enough to get on with life and the little I do have spare isn't enough to justify my wants let alone pay for them. If not willing to sacrifice stuff I literally need to survive equates to not wanting it badly enough then I'm kinda glad I'm not the kind of person who can justify that level of our RC obsession. You might be willing to go that far and, if you are, you have my sympathy.

The point Beetlelover is making that if you really want an original but only at a price you are willing to pay then you have to put some work into it. If money is a problem why are you wanting to get one of the rereleases when you can pick up good condition originals for much less, that with a bit of work can be as good as you want it to be, and it's an original not a rerelease. Because someone is selling a new Scorcher shell for $200 doesn't mean they all cost that much.

I'm a prime example of not having any money. Starting out being self employed, for the past few years I would have earned considerably more doing a minimum wage job. The first two years I earned £15K in total, with outgoings over the same time coming to £22K, a loss of £7K. Many, many months I have had a lot more money going out than coming in and have even had to sell my life insurance policy to keep afloat. Yet in this time I have added several very rare vintage cars to my collection, and have made the funds to buy new cars, because none of them were bought from ebay or Tamiyaclub. Some examples:

Extremely rare (only a handful of known examples rare!) Yokomo buggy, cost me £5 + £12 for new body - came via a local r/c club member. Car cost me £5, but I made £80 selling off the extra spares so have the car and £65 profit from the deal, which then goes to buy other cars.

Hardly run Ranger XLT, Porsche 959 with lots of nip spares, new built XR311, £80 for all 3 - from a local forum. Paid a lot of money I didn't really have spare for a job lot of cars that included them and sold off what I didn't want for more than what I paid for all of them. This left me with the 3 cars for free, the £80 was spent on parts needed to fix them up.

Sand Scorcher £30 + £8 for headlights and a set of Grasshopper wheels and tyres - found at a car boot/garage sale. I have found bargains at these sales, which I put on ebay to help fund other purchases. I do have one friend who regularly trawls these local sales looking for cars to sell, and he makes a good amount of money from it because he is prepared to put in the time to go round these sales every week. For example he picked up a Rough Rider in reasonable condition for £5, which he then got over £100 for on ebay. I also know one TC member who is a big fan of Gumtree as he has found several bargains through that website.

Job lot of old HPI parts from another local forum, paid £130 for them, sold them individually for £180 so far with still some left over. Helps fund my new purchases.

You will notice the common theme here, spending a bit of time hunting down good deals to raise funds to go towards the cars I want to have.

And if you are really obsessed enough to want a NIB Scorcher you will do enough to be able to afford one.

As for restoring a used shell, you should try it instead of dismissing it as something you don't have the skills for. Honestly, if you can build a plastic kit you can repair a Scorcher shell. Anyone can fill and sand out any road rash and glue on styrene strips aqnd sand them to shape to replace worn guttering. All you need is a little bit of practice, and can you not see how much more satisfaction you would get out of restoring an original compared to just buying a new bodyshell. The only downer is you need to have the time to spend on it.

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Seriously the lack of box art on the body box really peeves me, I find it sickening. It dilutes the Tamiya brand in my eyes. So did reissuing the Hilux with a plastic gearbox and re-issue of the "Scorcher" with a MB type body is just about the straw that broke the camel's back.
The point here is that these are things which are a problem with a very tiny minority, while 99.9% of customers couldn't care less about them.

Everyone else will get the body set and just throw the box away rather than worrying whether it's in black and white or colour. It's also cheaper and more environmentally friendly.

As for the High Lift chassis, once again there are thousands of happy customers glad to have something that can be used without having to pay loads more for something not as durable. No one has ever said the Hilux was a rerelease and it isn't intended to be. I'm sure that if plastic technology was advanced in 1980 as it is today you would have found the original Hilux with a plastic gearbox. If you insist on a new metal chassis with metal axles then go buy an rc4wd Bruiser.

I can only urge Tamiya fans world wide to do as I did and use tamiya.com to write a message to Tamiya Japan directly and then maybe Tamiya will finally understand the depth of feeling out there about this as at the moment I get the feeling that "they still just don't **** get it!". Sorry but that's my frustration talking again. LOL.
The problem you will have with that is that there's only a handful of people who are worked up about this.

Tamiya "get it" alright. They know that they can sell loads of Scorchers using the Blitzer Beetle mould they have (it's only relatively recently been out of production) so very little extra production costs for thousands of sales. Tamiya aren't going to halt their production lines and spend a fortune making a new bodyshell moulding tools because a handful of obsessive collectors want a perfect replica of the original, while they seem to be happy to accept the many changes Tamiya have made to the chassis without complaint.

Sorry but I disagree. I think this decision will hurt their sales. The interesting question is, to what extent.
Tamiya will have an idea how many they are likely to sell, are going to do a production run and will sell them all to shops and distributors whether you buy one or not.
People with the original will not want a modern vague imitation. People who want the original again will not want this one.
I would class myself as someone who wants the original. In which case even if the body and all the chassis parts were identical I still wouldn't be interested in it because it isn't the original, just like I couldn't care less about the Buggy Champ either.

As you say yourself, if someone wants the original they will buy the original anyway. If someone wants to relive their memories of when they started, without knowing there's a whole vintage r/c scene, then they will spot a scorcher in a hobby shop and buy one without caring about the many differences.

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You know a funny thought occurs to me. Why not reproduce the original ourselves? All we need is access to a laser scanner, an awesome CAD person, a CAM machine and an injection moulding facility! If the shell looked better than Tamiya's SS2010 then we would have more than a few sales!
Well I can organise that for you, if you can find the £500,000 it would cost. Then considering you would only sell about 100 shells at the most that makes then pretty expensive per body.

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The point here is that these are things which are a problem with a very tiny minority, while 99.9% of customers couldn't care less about them.

Everyone else will get the body set and just throw the box away rather than worrying whether it's in black and white or colour. It's also cheaper

It's probably true that most of the young 'uns would not care about the box once they have it if it was color and had beautiful box art, I was much the same with my Kyosho Raider and Schumacher Cougar 2 when I was a teenager.

I have to wonder though, why if Tamiya felt the need to make the box in color and have the wonderful box art in 1979, then why don't they feel the need to do it in 2009? People are still attracted to the packaging first before they see the product inside with almost all desirable retail items, and it's a pity that Tamiya don't always see it that way any longer. Personally I think that they are making a mistake. Presentation is very important and reinforces the brand's perception of quality.

If Tamiya e.g. put a vague glob of Lexan that looked sort of Scorcher shaped, into a brown paper bag, then it might make the buggy move faster and be easier to paint and be more environmentally friendly and have less throw away packaging, but it would be a terrible dissappointment for most Sand Scorcher fans I think.

Again my argument is kinda pointless since I know darned well now that they will be putting a MB shell into a beige box with a monochrome sticker and calling it a "Sand Scorcher", I only bring it up since it is just to vent my frustration more than anything!

Just my thoughts.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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As for the High Lift chassis, once again there are thousands of happy customers glad to have something that can be used without having to pay loads more for something not as durable. No one has ever said the Hilux was a rerelease and it isn't intended to be. I'm sure that if plastic technology was advanced in 1980 as it is today you would have found the original Hilux with a plastic gearbox. If you insist on a new metal chassis with metal axles then go buy an rc4wd Bruiser.

The problem you will have with that is that there's only a handful of people who are worked up about this.

How exactly is a Hilux Duralumin chassis of 5mm x 10mm approx. SOLID section significantly less durable than a High Lift chassis ?

Admittedly the crossmembers are fairly weak and they did support the end of the gearbox with a 1.5mm Dural crossmember! But the chassis is about the same strength!

I suppose "most" people don't even know what shape the real Hilux chassis is supposed to be, so Tamiya can do it on the cheap and just use bits of common bar stock instead of using imagination and effort and a bit more money. How convenient. Methinks that the people making the decisions at Tamiya could do with an injection of concience IMHO!! I'm sure that the designers would not really have wanted bits of bar for a chassis?! Overruled by the finance dept.?!!

Yes I imagine that not many people at all will have even noticed that the Hilux gearbox isn't metal as most would not expect it to be on a model I suppose! But most male builders of such a kit do know that the real gearbox is metal. Most of course won't know that the original model had a metal gearbox...or indeed even know that there even was an original Hilux model!

Yes you are right that as usual I am in the minority view (note I didn't say wrong or right view!) and wow do I ever intend to stay there.

Regards,

Alistair G.

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The problem you will have with that is that there's only a handful of people who are worked up about this.

A handful?! Are you sure about that?! I really disagree on this point. I assume you mean relatively. I wonder what percentage of enthusiasts do care about this issue and how many want to buy the model and don't give a toss about the wing shape? That would be an interesting point!

Regards,

ARG

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I can't beleive that I'm actually admitting to this, but, I didn't buy the Buggy Champ , purely because it was missing the SandBlaster text on the front tyres, that sounds so sad doesn't it?, it's on the rear tyres but not the front. Stupid.

But , I will be buying the Sand Scorcher regardless which body shell it comes with. i'll be wrapped if it still has the clear glass & not tinted, but be dissapointed if they use the Blitzer bulbous front nose cone that looks silly. But I have some repro's that will do the job.

Can't wait for the re release, just surprised/dissapointed that they didn't release it before Xmas, they would have made a killing & it's also a great excuse to tell our Wifes that we must have a couple of Sand Scorchers for Xmas!

regards

Jak

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Well I can organise that for you, if you can find the £500,000 it would cost. Then considering you would only sell about 100 shells at the most that makes then pretty expensive per body.

I wonder how much (in modern money) it would cost Tamiya today to create a Sand Scorcher shell if they hadn't of ever existed? Surely it can't be half a million quid?! I'd be interested to get some figures on that.

ARG

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I can't beleive that I'm actually admitting to this, but, I didn't buy the Buggy Champ , purely because it was missing the SandBlaster text on the front tyres, that sounds so sad doesn't it?, it's on the rear tyres but not the front. Stupid.

But , I will be buying the Sand Scorcher regardless which body shell it comes with. i'll be wrapped if it still has the clear glass & not tinted, but be dissapointed if they use the Blitzer bulbous front nose cone that looks silly. But I have some repro's that will do the job.

Can't wait for the re release, just surprised/dissapointed that they didn't release it before Xmas, they would have made a killing & it's also a great excuse to tell our Wifes that we must have a couple of Sand Scorchers for Xmas!

regards

Jak

LOL that's a bit harsh a decision not to buy one!!

Almost needless to say, but I bought a RR body box set since everything was moulded the same as in 1979 which immensly pleased me and makes me happy everytime I look at it, I suppose I can just about forgive them for the beige box and brown sticker as the contents of the box was definitely worth it. However of course I hate the decals being changed and will be ordering reproduction ones, and I cannot bring myself to buy the kit itself as too much changed and I already have original gearboxes and parts galore from the original. In a way I am glad they won't be bringing back the colored boxes for the SS body sets as they would only alter all the sponsor decals!

Thankfully Tamiya can still make amazing models that astound me, such as the Tanks where they get better each time and are almost without compromise, and like the 1/14 trucks where if you can forgive certain things the body shells and details are simply wonderful.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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Honestly, it would be disappointing to me if the SS2010 body is not the same as the original, since the shape of the guards is part of the Sand Scorcher look, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker. I just hope it has all the same little details, eg all the small body parts like the lights, door handles, wing mirrors, wipers, indicators etc. I hope these aren't all moulded in, that would be very disappointing.

I am sure that Tamiya re-tooled the Scorcher shell to make the Monster Beetle, and again to make the Blitzer beetle. It was most likely done (as has been said before) to make the shell a little less fragile in roll-overs. It could have also been done due to degradation of the original mould in those areas.

I don't know how many parts there are to the mould for the main Scorcher shell. It is most probably just two parts. After all, the real Beetle bodyshell was made with ease of painting/manufacture in mind. The mould could have some 'interchangeable' parts, eg the fenders might be different parts of the mould. If it was multiple parts, they could conceivable 'swap' the mould parts and put the original fenders back on.

If they modified the mould to make the Monster Beetle, Tamiya could conceivably change it back, but it probably would not be exactly the same. It's easy to add material to the mould to remove detail, but harder and therefore more expensive to remove material to restore that detail. So that's expense for Mr Tamiya. To remanufacture the moulds would mean tens of thousands of dollars in cost.

Time will tell - Either way, it's not going to stop people taking what will be an awesome kit, and making it their own.

I am sure that the body sets for the Scorcher will sell like hotcakes... Both to vintage fans who are after yet another body to detail who were previously buying Blitzer shells, and to those who have Buggy Champs looking to get a 'cheap' Scorcher by just changing over the shell (and body mount).

- James

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I don't care what body it's released with, if it makes me feel 14 years old again, building a NIB Sand Scorcher, then I'm STOKED for it!

Bring it on!

Cheers,

Skottoman

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Honestly, it would be disappointing to me if the SS2010 body is not the same as the original, since the shape of the guards is part of the Sand Scorcher look, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker. I just hope it has all the same little details, eg all the small body parts like the lights, door handles, wing mirrors, wipers, indicators etc. I hope these aren't all moulded in, that would be very disappointing.

About the small parts, oh yes, don't get me wrong, I will be buying exhausts and door handles and mirrors and other bits, just not the body itself.

Unless I fancy an easy way out of making a custom desert bug!

Best Regards,

ARG

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About the small parts, oh yes, don't get me wrong, I will be buying exhausts and door handles and mirrors and other bits, just not the body itself.

Unless I fancy an easy way out of making a custom desert bug!

Best Regards,

ARG

IF the SS10 body is like the prototype MB/BB shown on the blog, there will be no door handles to buy, unless you get the whole shell :mellow:

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