Ansmann Mad Rat Or Tamiya Rising Fighter ?

[newby]

Hi, I am brand new to r/c models and looking for a good "starter" Car for my son who has the "toys" from Argos but now would like something more professional for Christmas. (Electric power NOT Nitro).

He likes the look of the Tamiya Subaru but wants to take it off-road and I doubt it will have enough ground clearance for the rough stuff ?

His other alternatives are either the Ansmann Mad Rat or Tamiya Rising Fighter - both are avaiable from a relatively local store - Emodels in Stoke On Trent.

I would value any ones opinion on either Model as to which is best also any comments on the store ?

Many thanks

Newby

[lee1980]

Im sure I saw the latest sabura in a tamiya ad on back of a magazine and its avaliable in both road going trim with i think a tt-01 chassis and like low profile tyres, or on the the more

rally chassis df-03 i think that has higher ground clearance more suspension and rally block tyres! certainly be good off road guess it depends how deep etc grass, I know i would prefer the more scale vehicle!

[qatmix]

The madrat is definitely the car to buy. Its an excellent 2wd budget buy. Its cheaper than the Rising Fighter and its better than any 2wd buggy that Tamiya has ever built. You could quite easily race this car as well. Its got a high specification including a slipper clutch etc. You only need to buy a set of bearings to replace the bushings (£8 on ebay).

Hands down 100% the better car, and probably the best budget car out there.

The only other thing I would consider looking at is the truck alternative called the Macnam http://www.fusionhobbies.com/ProductDetail...008&click=2 its essentially the same as the Madrat but It has larger wheels and a truck shell. The larger wheels will make the car more resilient to bumps and prangs.

Check out my Blog (in my Sig) I have a build thread and review of the Madrat.

[PaPeRo]

IMO you could make any rally car chassis into a high ground clearance "buggy" by simply putting bigger tires on the car and raising the body with body post extensions.

This is my tarmac rally car

This is my intermediate "buggy" Dakar style rally car

This is my high ground clearance "lifted" rally "truggy"

As you can see, one chassis that can be configured for 3 different types of terrain. The only difference between the 3 configurations are the wheels/tires and body post height.

[taliesin]

The Rising Fighter is based on a 20+ year old design - its fine if that's what you want, but not even in the same league as the Ansmann for performance.

I'm sure whatever Santa brings him will be much appreciated and well used by New Years Eve.

[Arcticfox]

Soo what did you decide in the end newby?

[Origineelreclamebord]

Well, for spares availability the Rising Fighter is the better the choice I think, but the Mad Rat will most likely handle better. As for the reliability/durability of the cars, the Rising Fighter should be ok when equiped with bearings. As for the Mad Rat, I haven't heard anything negative or positive on it's reliability.

[Alvarez]

Mad rat overall is a great car.

However in the store I work in 2 out of the 4 we have the shocks tops have popped off in transit and all the oil has leaked out.

Attempted to screw the tops back on but they just pop off again. Therefore the shocks are appalingly bad as the plastic they have been made from is too bendy and the threaded tops just dont grip them enough, one was so bad it would literally just press on without screwing it down.

Dont let the webpictures or the box fool you into thinking it has alloy shocks the car inside does not have them.

If you intend to go with the rat I highly recommend getting a set of 3racing buggy shocks and a set of ball races.

Other than that its a great car with some good speed and simple layout making it easy to work on.

[kaiser]

i've been debating picking up an ansmann car for a while now.

i'm not too concerend with parts availability because i don't actually run my cars very often, i just get a kick out of building them.

i've never even seen an ansmann car in person, but the mad rat looks like it could be a kyosho copy, could that be?

[tamiya monkey]

what about an hpi brama rtr buggy clicky for the money they look ok, ive seen one run at one of our meets and for £125 you cant go wrong, and parts should be easy to get hold of too.

[Arcticfox]

i've been debating picking up an ansmann car for a while now.

i'm not too concerend with parts availability because i don't actually run my cars very often, i just get a kick out of building them.

i've never even seen an ansmann car in person, but the mad rat looks like it could be a kyosho copy, could that be?

Not wanting to hi-jack the thread but

I have both the Ansmann Master smacker (kit) and the Royal (pita) Flash RTR. Now quality is pretty ok for the price but looks are deceiving IMO. The RF is sluggish at best and eats spur gears as they are not trued, wheels are too big for the already high gearing too. Shox quality is good and the rest is pretty ok. But for me it may well end up as a spare parts car in the near future.

The Master Smacker on the other hand is a gem. It cost £45 in kit form and came with an Ansmann 21t motor. Most components are decent, shocks are alloy and work well. Gearing is good and it will turn a decent speed of acceleration and top end as standard for bashing around. Instructions from Ansmann are mediocre at best, but good if you want a challenge.

I can't comment on the madrat but have heard mixed reports, especially on the shocks story.

All the Tamiya kit we have is first rate, works well out of the box, great product support, parts easy to get and at the right price, timeless and IMHO they hold their money better for the used market too. Yeah they have the occasional problem, but 99 times out of 100 it is because of operator fault rather than Tamiya.

[newby]

Hello again,

By way of an update, we went for the Ansmann Mad Rat and are really impressed. - We had a bit of difficulty with the Radio at first, it is vital that you first turn on the Radio, THEN plug in the Battery on the Car before operating the throttle full forwared then full reverse, the speed controller then apparantly "learns" this for future. - Although second time we played with it we had similar problems, so we go through this procedure now every time - not too much of an issue.

We were really impressed with the speed of the thing, fortunately we have a good sized drive so plenty of room - its definately not a car for indoors fun !

We had a couple of head on crashes into the Garage door whilst we were getting used to the controls but NO damage at all to the Car.

Very impressed and would defo' recommend.

When finished we blow all the intricate bits with compressed air from our garage compressor to remove leaves, dirt etc and give the body and tyres a wipe down -

QUESTION: Is it necessary to spray WD40 or similar on the relatively exposed motor ?? - many thanks for your advice

[taliesin]

No, you don't need to use wd40 on the motor. It does help to spray it out w/ compressed air though. Every once in awhile remove the motor and use an engine cleaning spray to clean it. Then add a drop of very light oil to the bearings at each end and reinstall. The electric motors are pretty durable and a little dust and dirt won't harm them.

[vtgrrrs]

I'm trying decide between these two models aswell. How difficult to follow are the instructions for the Mad Rat? To be honest that will probably be a deciding factor for me. It would be good to see some pictures of yours.

[Arcticfox]

Hi VTGrrrs, the biggest difference you will find on the assembly is that Tamiya list all the screw sizes eg 3x12(mm) in the destructions as to what goes where. Whereas Ansmann just let you decide what should go where, no size listing so it can be frustrating.

Also steering saver is a bit more complex although not rocket science it can be if no prior knowledge or experience with mechanical mind.

Now I haven't built or seen a Mad Rat in the flesh so the steering servo saver may be similar to Tamiya?

If you go for Ansmann, try to see if a Tamiya TEU-101 ESC will fit (should do). IMO they are way better than the Ansmann/Motronics ESC and there is like £2 in price difference (dearer on Tamiya).

Better cos once set up it stays that way. Full speed reverse and a great brake control on it. The Motroniks I have (x2) can be a pain every now and then, like sometimes the thing will run reverse instead of forward, poor reverse as barely 1/3 speed and slow pick up. Trying to reverse out of a ditch is futile, whereas the Tamiya ESC just gives the reverse power delivery needed.

Of course you need to consider what turn motor you will run as the Tamiya ESC may not be suitable. The Ansmann 21t RS Speed racer motor will run fine on the Tamiya ESC. But I wouldn't go lower turn motor on it.

Either way fun is guaranteed once you hit the dirt

PS

Consider an Ansmann Master smacker, they are 4wd, pretty rugged, light weight and currently pretty cheap in the kit form (ful assy reqd). It comes with a motor but no other electrics. I got one for £45 from a local hobby shop.

PPS if you are in the true NE of England like near Newcastle, Phils Models in Nirth Shields is a good place for deals on Ansmann wheels. They don't seem to carry much stock but likely they can get what you want.

[knotty]

Just bought the young un the ansmann magnum for xmas.i havent looked at it in detail but for £55 it seems like a nice bit of kit.I will let you know how it goes

[knotty]

Well after being nattered at i started it last night.I`ve got to say after doing the front end,suspension and steering,these are not a ptch on Tamiya for quality,ease of building and instructions.Nothing is supplied with them,no hex keys for all the screws no t spanner.I`ll get it finished though and let you all know the full details when its up and running

[Arcticfox]

these are not a ptch on Tamiya for quality,ease of building and instructions.Nothing is supplied with them,no hex keys for all the screws no t spanner.

Yep I agree with you there. I see spares prices are getting on the high side too, in comparison to Tamiya.

Post a pic when your done, I am interested to see it

[knotty]

Yep I agree with you there. I see spares prices are getting on the high side too, in comparison to Tamiya.

Post a pic when your done, I am interested to see it

will do when i get the chance.

Right its up and running thought id share my thoughts on it.Now being used to working with tamiyas perhaps its my fault as im using tamiyas as the benchmark where as i should may be be looking at it as a radio controlled kit by itself,but here we go.

I`m not greatly impressed by the kit to be honest.The chassis and lower arms and the ball ends seem to be made from a very hard plastic,almost bakelite type material that i very much doubt will take the abuse a kit of this nature will get.It seems far too brittle and the type of material that will become even more brittle in cold weather,similar to upvc. The body is a very thin lexan type affair,and admittedly its never been one of my favourites it seems to be very flimsy,thin and light and i woudnt be surprised if it ripped very easily.The tyres seem to be very thin rubber with no stability in them whatsoever.

The build itself tbh i thought was poor screws dont fit properly and to make things worse all of them except four are allen head screws.Even with good allen keys the screws stick in the material and strip the heads. The instructions i found to be as clear as mud!!!

Silly little things probably that Tamiya do that do actually make the difference,like all screw lists at the side of the instructions are in fact 1:1 so instead of messing about sorting out which screw is which, on a tamiya you simply measure the screw on the diagram and away you go,where as the ansmanns you have to sort out whats what and bags arent labelled in the order you use them.

The Instructions dont follow any specific order either seemingly,you build the front end then go to the rear end then back to the front for the steering,then back to the back for the gearbox,then back to the front for the suspension etc. It leaves you with the overall feeling of GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

Like i said its maybe me being too picky,but if they have had the idea of budget range to bring in youngsters into R/C kits or to compete with tamiya and kyosho kits etc theyve missed a golden opportunity.

Right,now that the niggles are out of the way the plus points

1) it shoudnt but the steering sets up in five seconds flat!!! Center your servo in the usual way then a quick twist of steering arms and your off!!

2) The steering arms front tie rods and rear tie rods are adjustable,rathar than solid moulded so any slop is instantly got rid of

3) The construction is basic,no frills so easy to fix if it breaks.Floor pan,four bottom arms,two steering arms front and back suspension trees and four body posts!!!!

4) plenty of space inside so cableing looks neat

5) there are some nice touches in there like moulded cable clips for the motor wires,All round oil dampers though they would benefit from heavier oil, ball diff and ball bearings on the ends of the steering pins!!!

And the most important bit.It is a fair bit of fun to drive.I had a spare ansmann clash motor and esc that i have given him for now and even with an old 1400mah battery it goes a bit.run time isnt that long obviously,but we had a bit of fun both over the rough in the back garden and out the front street on the snow and ice.

Its made my lad happy but if i had the choice again hand on heart I would pay an extra few quid and get a Tamiya.

[knotty]

As promised a couple of piccies

overall not a bad looking thing but a B****R to build

[terry.sc]

Coming from a racers perspective and having built the Mad Rat (buggy version of the Macnum) my views on it do differ slightly.

I`m not greatly impressed by the kit to be honest.The chassis and lower arms and the ball ends seem to be made from a very hard plastic,almost bakelite type material that i very much doubt will take the abuse a kit of this nature will get.

As a racer one of the reasons for buying it was for the carbon reinforced nylon chassis and suspension parts, they keep the geometry stable because they don't flex like Tamiyas ABS parts do. The same plastic is used in all high end cars as the stiffness makes the handling more reliable and any suspension adjustments can be felt when driving. Softer plastics makes it more likely to flex in an impact, but it means for racers the handling isn't consistent enough to follow the same line lap after lap.

The body is a very thin lexan type affair,and admittedly its never been one of my favourites it seems to be very flimsy,thin and light and i woudnt be surprised if it ripped very easily.

Lexan bodies are used because they are much tougher than the hard plastic used on others. Saying that, the Ansmann bodies aren't the best quality and my Mad Rat wing was ripped in half following a big accident. I expect the non Ansmann replacement I bought will last considerably longer.

The tyres seem to be very thin rubber with no stability in them whatsoever.

They aren't supposed to have any stability, the rubber is soft so it grips and the foam insert is there to hold it up. The kit tyres work very well, and are no softer than any other decent stadium truck tyre.

The build itself tbh i thought was poor screws dont fit properly and to make things worse all of them except four are allen head screws.Even with good allen keys the screws stick in the material and strip the heads. The instructions i found to be as clear as mud!!!

Leaving out an allen key set is ridiculous, but every allen key I have ever had in a kit has gone straight in the bin as they are next to useless compared with a proper allen driver. Allen head screws are standard hardware on race cars as they make for easier assembly and disassembly for the regular maintenance racers do to their cars. You will find the same problem trying to drive the screws in to an Associated B4 or Losi XXX. The Tamiya Durga is made of the same plastic and you are advised to replace the kit pozidrive screws with hex drive ones as they are then easier to drive in.

The Instructions dont follow any specific order either seemingly,you build the front end then go to the rear end then back to the front for the steering,then back to the back for the gearbox,then back to the front for the suspension etc. It leaves you with the overall feeling of GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

I suppose again it is what you are used to.

The build order is designed so the parts are assembled as separate modules, so you can see how to disassemble it in chunks if/when you break it.

[knotty]

Some decent points Terry and i hadnt thought of it from a racers perspective tbh, More from the point of someone who enjoys building and bashing. So the build order might come in handy after all!!