This Brushless Carry On

[knotty]

What exactly would i need to put a brushless system in one of my cars?Could someone please explain it in plain english for thicko please.i really am struggling with all this amps etc

[Spetz83]

Brushless motor, brushless motor ESC and a decent battery.

Usually things like the EZruns etc come in a package of ESC and motor together.

[knotty]

cheers spetz.what shoud i be looking for?

[mooter]

What do you want to run it in? That will help you make a decision on turns / power.

You also need to think about Sensored or non-Sensored. A sensored system provides more precise control and are a little more expensive, the ezrun systems are cheaper as they are non-sensored (aka sensorless). I wont try to explain it, instead I'll let Novak do the talking

Sensor based motors are most often used in applications where the starting torque varies greatly or where a high initial torque is required, such as in a RC car. If one looks at the industrial or aerospace applications of brushless motors, one would be hard pressed to find sensorless motors being used due to lack of starting torque and unreliable operation under noisy electrical conditions. Sensored brushless ESC motor systems always know the position of the rotor. This is especially critical at low speed as well as at the start condition when there is no rotor movement. With the proper rotor position information, the ESC can apply power to the correct rotor phase combination.

As a general rule, the turns advertised on a brushless motor are roughly equal to 1.5x a brushed motor; i.e. 9T ezrun is roughly equal to 13T brushed (I think?).

If a Brushless motor is rated in .5T's, i.e. 10.5T, it is a 'proper' 540 sized motor and it will deliver a little more torque. Those that do not have a .5T rating, i.e. the ezrun 9T are actuallly 380 sized motors in 540 sized cans (to allow for correct fitment). They still have plenty of punch when compared to a brushed motor though and the low turn rating can more than make up for any potential loss in top end speed.

I looked at the ezruns but in the end went for a Losi Xcelorin 10.5T combo (motor + esc). It's expensive, but I can play with all of the settings to my hearts content (via programming card and/or PC via USB) and it delivers massive performance gains over a standard Sport Tuned or whatever. I'm powering it with some LiPo's too... it really didn't like my old NiMH, it just didn't have the current draw the ESC asks for on full throttle and the low voltage cutout (LVC) comes on.

If you decide to go LiPo make sure that the ESC has a LVC, if you discharge a LiPo all the way down you will damage it. Thankfully low voltage warning beepers are available for those running LiPo without a compatible ESC (but they just warn that you're down, they don't actually cut the power).

Hope this helps Just buy the best that your budget can afford, see the difference and then sell the house to replace all of your kit. Once you go brushless....

[Gruntfuggly]

If you want to try brushless, I'd recommend the ezRun combo. Great value for money - works fine with nimh packs...

[knotty]

What do you want to run it in? That will help you make a decision on turns / power.

You also need to think about Sensored or non-Sensored. A sensored system provides more precise control and are a little more expensive, the ezrun systems are cheaper as they are non-sensored (aka sensorless). I wont try to explain it, instead I'll let Novak do the talking

As a general rule, the turns advertised on a brushless motor are roughly equal to 1.5x a brushed motor; i.e. 9T ezrun is roughly equal to 13T brushed (I think?).

If a Brushless motor is rated in .5T's, i.e. 10.5T, it is a 'proper' 540 sized motor and it will deliver a little more torque. Those that do not have a .5T rating, i.e. the ezrun 9T are actuallly 380 sized motors in 540 sized cans (to allow for correct fitment). They still have plenty of punch when compared to a brushed motor though and the low turn rating can more than make up for any potential loss in top end speed.

I looked at the ezruns but in the end went for a Losi Xcelorin 10.5T combo (motor + esc). It's expensive, but I can play with all of the settings to my hearts content (via programming card and/or PC via USB) and it delivers massive performance gains over a standard Sport Tuned or whatever. I'm powering it with some LiPo's too... it really didn't like my old NiMH, it just didn't have the current draw the ESC asks for on full throttle and the low voltage cutout (LVC) comes on.

If you decide to go LiPo make sure that the ESC has a LVC, if you discharge a LiPo all the way down you will damage it. Thankfully low voltage warning beepers are available for those running LiPo without a compatible ESC (but they just warn that you're down, they don't actually cut the power).

Hope this helps Just buy the best that your budget can afford, see the difference and then sell the house to replace all of your kit. Once you go brushless....

thanks,but thats another question to add to the list.say i`m running it in a TL-01 (seeing as i have an ample supply of them!!)Would it fit straight in and perform ok stock or would i need to change gearing or anything?

[knotty]

Sorry to keep bugging you all with this but would something like this be ok?

pointy clicky looky please

and what size battery should i be looking at for it,lipo i presume would be best but other than that a nimh high ma/h would do?

And do they work with standard 27mhz radio gear?

Cheers for your patience guys

[TA-Mark]

Sorry to keep bugging you all with this but would something like this be ok?

pointy clicky looky please

and what size battery should i be looking at for it,lipo i presume would be best but other than that a nimh high ma/h would do?

And do they work with standard 27mhz radio gear?

Cheers for your patience guys

They work fine with 27mhz AM/FM radio gear. The EZ-Runs are fine on good quality Ni-MH packs. Good quality battery plugs are very important, not Tamiya plugs.

8.5T is a bit too hot for a TL01 which doesn't have the gearing options to get the required FDR. In a better chassis the 8.5T would be ok (TA* chassis). You run a risk of overheating the ESC and Motor by running it overgeared in a TL01 and would need to monitor temperatures carefully.

[Gruntfuggly]

I'm using this one in a DF03:

http://www.nitrorcx.com/ezrun-brushless-sy...w--35a-esc.html

Plenty of speed - cheaper too...

[knotty]

Cheers Mark.so i take it these are more race bred set ups than standard brushed motors?

[TA-Mark]

I agree with Gruntfuggy, the 9T 35A system will still be very much a handful and is better suited to the gearing of the TL01 with smallest pinion/largest spur.

Will go faster in a TL01 than anything brushed you can bolt into it. Hot brushed motors are more sensitive to overgearing. That said, I've melted the battery holder on a TL01 before trying to run hot brushed motors in them (requires new chassis halves).

[knotty]

I agree with Gruntfuggy, the 9T 35A system will still be very much a handful and is better suited to the gearing of the TL01 with smallest pinion/largest spur.

Will go faster in a TL01 than anything brushed you can bolt into it. Hot brushed motors are more sensitive to overgearing. That said, I've melted the battery holder on a TL01 before trying to run hot brushed motors in them (requires new chassis halves).

funny you should say that.......

i meant to ask gruntfuggly what the difference in the amps was,like how much difference to the run times speed etc is there but it seems even more complicated than that.

[Gruntfuggly]

I'm sure Mark can give you much better info than I can - all I can say is that the 9T ezRun gives me longer run time, faster acceleration and better top speed than any of the brushed motors I've previously used!

[TA-Mark]

funny you should say that.......

i meant to ask gruntfuggly what the difference in the amps was,like how much difference to the run times speed etc is there but it seems even more complicated than that.

Using Ni-MH packs you won't notice any difference between the 35A and 60A ESCs. The Ni-MH packs cannot deliver more Amps than the 35A ESC can handle in most cases.

On a 7.4v 25C 4000mAh Li-Po this would be a different story. This battery will easily supply more Amps than the 35A or 60A ESC can safely handle if pushed to the limits.

Matching the chassis gearing to the Kv (rpm per volt) of the motor is the most important thing to be concerned about when choosing the brushless system and running it on Ni-MH packs.

[PaPeRo]

The 35A eZRun ESC is designed to work their "380 sized" 9T motors and up. The 60A version is designed to work with their full 540 sized 5.5T motors and up. They can be easily programmed with a cheap little program box. If you buy the combos they come with the box. The 9T/35A combo can be run in all 10th scale 2WD offroad cars. For AWD offroad cars you should get the 60A ESC.

[TA-Mark]

The 35A eZRun ESC is designed to work their "380 sized" 9T motors and up. The 60A version is designed to work with their full 540 sized 5.5T motors and up. They can be easily programmed with a cheap little program box. If you buy the combos they come with the box. The 9T/35A combo can be run in all 10th scale 2WD offroad cars. For AWD offroad cars you should get the 60A ESC.

TL01 is an onroad tourer for which the 9T and 35Amp is fine. TL01b can get nowhere near the gearing needed to use 4000Kv+ motors with it's larger wheels.

[Stu74]

Is a motor that ends .5 better for a 4 wheel drive off road racing car?

If so why and what if its an off road car that is used a lot on tarmac?

Like Knotty i am all new to this and i am still a bit confused with all the options with brushless motors.This site is a big help though.

[TA-Mark]

Is a motor that ends .5 better for a 4 wheel drive off road racing car?

If so why and what if its an off road car that is used a lot on tarmac?

Like Knotty i am all new to this and i am still a bit confused with all the options with brushless motors.This site is a big help though.

Offroad (buggy) vs onroad (tourer) car is a difference of wheel size, which is part of the gearing. The gearing of your car needs to match the motor Kv (rpm per volt) you bolt into it when you are looking at limited gearing options like there is on many Tamiya vehicles, where there is, in most cases, only 1, 2 or 3 different ratios available.

TL01 is one of these cars with only 3 ratios available and is not suitable for high Kv (low turn) brushless motors. This is exaggerated on the TL01b which has larger buggy sized wheels.

[Stu74]

ok go easy with me.

When you say limited gearing ratios do you mean limited to what pinion gear you can use for a particular car.

[TA-Mark]

ok go easy with me.

When you say limited gearing ratios do you mean limited to what pinion gear you can use for a particular car.

Yes, you change the ratio of the gearbox by swapping pinions or spur gears. Some models allow changing of pinion only, some you must change both pinion and spur for them to fit (SRB, Frog etc). Others, better suited to brushless, you can change both the pinion and spur for a wide range of ratios (TA0*, DF0*, DB01 etc).

[stu22]

The 35A eZRun ESC is designed to work their "380 sized" 9T motors and up. The 60A version is designed to work with their full 540 sized 5.5T motors and up. They can be easily programmed with a cheap little program box. If you buy the combos they come with the box. The 9T/35A combo can be run in all 10th scale 2WD offroad cars. For AWD offroad cars you should get the 60A ESC.

The size of the motor can has nothing to do with what ESC to use. It's the number of turns that matters. You would use the 35A esc with the Hobbywing 17.5T sensor less 540 can motor.

If you look at the specs for the 35A and 60A EzRun you'll see Hobbywing (on their website) says that the 35A can go down to a 9T for on road use and a 12T for off road and the 60A is rated to 5.5T and 8T.

From experience I can say that the ratings are pretty conservative. I run 9T/35A setups in my DB01 and B4 buggies, a 10T/35A in my SC10, and just put a 5.5T/60A in a Hyper10 SC and they all run with out any problems.

[HereBeMonsters]

They work fine with 27mhz AM/FM radio gear. The EZ-Runs are fine on good quality Ni-MH packs. Good quality battery plugs are very important, not Tamiya plugs.

Y'see, a lot of people say that, but I've been running my 3 EZ Run systems with decent Ni-MH and LiPo packs for over a year now on standard Tamiya plugs, and not had a single problem.

[PaPeRo]

The size of the motor can has nothing to do with what ESC to use. It's the number of turns that matters. You would use the 35A esc with the Hobbywing 17.5T sensor less 540 can motor.

If you look at the specs for the 35A and 60A EzRun you'll see Hobbywing (on their website) says that the 35A can go down to a 9T for on road use and a 12T for off road and the 60A is rated to 5.5T and 8T.

From experience I can say that the ratings are pretty conservative. I run 9T/35A setups in my DB01 and B4 buggies, a 10T/35A in my SC10, and just put a 5.5T/60A in a Hyper10 SC and they all run with out any problems.

HW designed the 35A ESC to be paired with their 380 sized motors just like they designed the 60A ESC to be paired with their 540 sized motors. I didn't say you were restricted to using any specific combination. BTW according to their website HW doesn't make a 17.5T 540 can brushless motor. They only offer 5.5 and 8.5 turn 540 size motors which are offered with only their 60A ESC combos.

Also it DOES matter what size can the motor is, that's why their 19T 8th scale larger can motors need 80A ESCs. Going by your logic you could use the 35A ESC with that 19T motor because "only number of turns matter and not can size"...I don't think so.

Finally if you want to run the 35A ESC for an AWD offroad buggy you need to use the 13T (3000kv) motor which means you won't be going very fast. Even with 2S LiPo you'd only be looking a 22K rpm tops. That's why I said for AWD offroad you should get the 60A ESC with the 540 size can motors.

[stu22]

HW designed the 35A ESC to be paired with their 380 sized motors just like they designed the 60A ESC to be paired with their 540 sized motors. I didn't say you were restricted to using any specific combination. BTW according to their website HW doesn't make a 17.5T 540 can brushless motor. They only offer 5.5 and 8.5 turn 540 size motors which are offered with only their 60A ESC combos.

Also it DOES matter what size can the motor is, that's why their 19T 8th scale larger can motors need 80A ESCs. Going by your logic you could use the 35A ESC with that 19T motor because "only number of turns matter and not can size"...I don't think so.

Finally if you want to run the 35A ESC for an AWD offroad buggy you need to use the 13T (3000kv) motor which means you won't be going very fast. Even with 2S LiPo you'd only be looking a 22K rpm tops. That's why I said for AWD offroad you should get the 60A ESC with the 540 size can motors.

Look someone's selling a Hobbywing 17.5T sensorless, http://www.nitrorcx.com/brushless-motor-fo...ize--3650-.html (along with the non-existent Hobbywing 13.5T.) Someone better tell them it doesn't exist

Hobbywing is essentially the discount/cheap line for Speed Passion, they didn't design anything, they just rebranded what already existed. There are Hobbywing versions for quite a bit of the Speed Passion lineup.

I will agree that you can't use a setup intended for a 1/10 platform in a 1/8 sized car/buggy. I'm saying from a 380 to a 540 (and not some monster can designed for a 1/8) the difference in the current draw will be more dependent on the turns of the motor size, i.e. the 17.5T or 13.5T with their 540 cans will draw less current than the 380 sized 9T. My 13.5T 540 sized motor which I was running in my SC10 will get quite a bit more runtime than the 380 sized 10T. It's not as fast but is drawing a lot less current even though it is a bigger can. The ESCs were not designed to be paired with a motor size but instead the current requirements of a motor.

[PaPeRo]

Look someone's selling a Hobbywing 17.5T sensorless, http://www.nitrorcx.com/brushless-motor-fo...ize--3650-.html (along with the non-existent Hobbywing 13.5T.) Someone better tell them it doesn't exist

Yes and look at the chart where it says accessory...60A ESC not 35A ESC.

Also HW DO design the eZRun systems. They are the OEM to SP not the other way around. Many other companies are rebadging the HW systems including Turnigy and Venom.

Anyway if you want to compare like to like, if the number of turns are equal, a 540 size motor will draw more current than a 380 sized motor. With that said, yes if you run the DOG SLOW high turn motors like the 17.5T you could get away with the 35A ESC in a AWD offroad car assuming you have it geared correctly.