Super Fighter G Wheel Sizes

[T. Smith]

Taking a look at pictures of the Super Fighter G, I see that it rides on star dish wheels originally introduced with the Super Astute so long ago. I've also noticed that the Super Fighter has rear stud tires found on Madcaps and Bear Hawks, etc. I was under the impression that the star dish wheels were larger than the old lightweight/speed disc/Hotshot wheels and needed different tires (square/spire spikes).

Are rear star dish wheels the same size as lightweight/speed disc, etc? Or have Tamiya shrunk the star dish wheel so that stud tires and the like can fit? Or have Tamiya released a new tire to fit the star dish wheel?

[taliesin]

The super fighter came with wheels marked 60-54-29-35 on the rear and 60-54-14-19 front. Exactly the same as the white star dish wheels.

The later model sand viper has speed disc wheels marked the same on the rear, but 60-54-19-24 on the front, so slightly larger.

I don't have the DT-01 wheels in front of me at the moment, but I know those rear wheels are slightly smaller to use the smaller rear tires.

Hope that helps, I know it isn't exactly the answer, but it's what I know right now.

[T. Smith]

The super fighter came with wheels marked 60-54-29-35 on the rear and 60-54-14-19 front. Exactly the same as the white star dish wheels.

The later model sand viper has speed disc wheels marked the same on the rear, but 60-54-19-24 on the front, so slightly larger.

I don't have the DT-01 wheels in front of me at the moment, but I know those rear wheels are slightly smaller to use the smaller rear tires.

Hope that helps, I know it isn't exactly the answer, but it's what I know right now.

But that's what I'm getting at. The DT01 rear wheels are the same diameter as the lightweights and speed discs found on earlier models. Therefore the DT01 can take oval blocks, pin spikes, stud spikes, or any other Tamiya 2.0" tyre of that era without needing a wheel change. The DT02 Super Fighter also seems to be fitted with old 2.0" stud spike tires from all outward appearances, but wrapped around a more modern star dish wheel. I thought star dish wheels were Tamiya's answer to 2.2" design.

Something has changed.

Thanks for looking at the wheel numbers and getting back to me. For the sake of simplicity, I'm only interested about rear tires for now, as this seems to be where the changes have taken place.

[T. Smith]

OK, looking at more pictures it looks like the Super Fighter has it's tires factory fitted to the rims http://www.tamiyaclub.com/pictureframe.asp...005200857_3.jpg.

If they are the old small tires and the wheels are the new big wheels... Well, I feel sorry for the poor chap who has to sit there all day stretching small tires over big rims. He must have fingers of steel by now!

[yellowscott]

I don't know much about the size difference but I bought a set of these tires & rims to put on one of my shelf queen dyna storms & they look great with the blue paint job (I just did a quick measure, they appear to be the same size as the originals).

[berman]

I didn't realise the rear's were different sizes, I have super fighter star dish rims with square spike 53084 tyres and they were a pain to get on, does dont need gluing though . And also Dyna Storm front and rears with spire spikes on the rear and they were suprisingly easy. Well that explains it. So this mean there's two sizes of Star dish? 2.16 (or 2.2) and 2.0?

[T. Smith]

I didn't realise the rear's were different sizes, I have super fighter star dish rims with square spike 53084 tyres and they were a pain to get on, does dont need gluing though . And also Dyna Storm front and rears with spire spikes on the rear and they were suprisingly easy. Well that explains it. So this mean there's two sizes of Star dish? 2.16 (or 2.2) and 2.0?

2 sizes of star dish? That's what I'm trying to find out, but it would seem that there isn't, according to Taliesin who says that the new yellow star dish wheels are the same items as the old white star dish wheels. If that's the case, it would seem, in theory that the Super Fighter G is wearing the wrong shoes!

2.0" Wheels and Tires (rears)

50234 Oval Block tire with wheel 4WD (hotshot, Boomerang)

50236 Pin Spike tire with wheel 4WD ( " " )

50256 Oval Block tire with wheel 2WD (Wild One, Fox)

50257 Pin Spike tire with wheel 2WD ( " " )

50269 Oval Block rear tire only

50006 Lightweight Wide wheels (Vanquish)

50271 Pin Spike rear tire only (Super Shot, Vanquish, Avante)

53040 Hybrid Wide Spike tire only (Egress, Astute)

53050 Lightweight Wide wheels black (Egress, Astute)

53058 Wide Dish wheels black (Madcap, Saint Dragon)

? Wide Dish wheels grey (Bear Hawk, Manta Ray)

53059 Wide Stud Spike tires (Madcap, Bear Hawk, Mantaray, Avante 2001, Mad Fighter, *SUPER FIGHTER G???*)

With the right hub adapters, by and large, all the above wheels and tires are interchangeable and can be swapped between all mentioned models and more besides.

2.2" Wheels and Tires (rears)

53084 60/29 Square Spike rear tire (Super astute, Sand Viper)

53086 60/29 rear Star Dish wheels ( " Top Force, Dyna Storm)

? 60/29 rear Star Dish wheels fluorescent orange (Top Force Evo, Terra Conqueror)

53093 60/29 Spire Spike rear tires (Top Force, Top Force Evo, Terra Conqueror, TL01B, Dyna Storm)

? 60/29 rear Star Dish wheels yellow (*SUPER FIGHTER G???*)

Once again, all of Tamiya's 2.2" wheels and tires should be interchangeable with each other.

As you can see I've marked the Super Fighter heavily. It appears to be an anomaly. It seems to have 2.2" wheels with 2.0" tires I really hope someone knows the answer to this. I'm sitting here, scratching my head!

[TA-Mark]

The Star Dish wheels are smaller than 2.2". It's a real stretch to get the 2.16 square/spire spikes onto a DF03 2.2" rim, and the DF03 2.2" tyres swim on the Star Dish rims. 2.16" is the size of these wheels. They are smaller overall diameter compared to the DF03 (and other brand) 2.2" wheels.

I use these Star Dish wheels and Spire/Square spike tyres on nearly every buggy model I have, even the DF03 pictured in my avatar.

[T. Smith]

The Star Dish wheels are smaller than 2.2". It's a real stretch to get the 2.16 square/spire spikes onto a DF03 2.2" rim, and the DF03 tyres swim on the Star Dish rims. 2.16" is the size of these wheels. They are smaller overall diameter compared to the DF03 (and other brand) 2.2" wheels.

I use these Star Dish wheels and Spire/Square spike tyres on nearly every buggy model I have, even the DF03 pictured in my avatar.

Yes, I know they are really 2.16". I was wondering when someone would bring that up, even though it's already been mentioned. I've got enough numbers flying around this thread to give Carol Vorderman a headache. And since the thread is centred around star dish wheels, I figured that Tamiya fans would know what I'm on about regardless of specific numbers. I just wanted to keep it simple and go with 2.2" As I've already mentioned, star dish wheels were apparently Tamiya's answer to 2.2" design that appeared sometime in the very late 80's/ early 90's.

Owning both DF03 rims and star dish, I can see that they are very different in size just by looking at them, but this thread doesn't concern DF03 rims. Why bring more wheels into it?

All I want to know is what tires are fitted to the star dish wheels on a Super Fighter G. If 2.16 tires are a stretch to pull over true 2.2" rims, 2.0" tires must be a complete nightmare to pull over 2.16 rims. So what tires are they? Are they new? Are they old? Do they fit perfectly or are they stretched? Someone must know.

[Power Surge]

Hey Mark, how do these Star Dish wheels compare to DF03 wheels? I've converted my Durga and 501x to 12mm style, but the Dark Impact rear wheels are offset much further in than DB01 wheels. Just curious if these wheels sit farther out on the rear than DF03s.

[TA-Mark]

If the Super Fighter G wheels are the same size as the Sand Viper Speed discs, the tyres fit straight onto the Star Dish wheels without much effort (normally a tight fit). I just built this model and do not like the disc rims so used the kit tyres and Super Astute Star Dish rims. (anyone want the ugly discs?)

The rear Star Dish wheels are much bigger than that of the 2.0" rear wheels of the Fighter Buggy (6 spoke yellow - Same tyre as Manta-Ray). The front tyres/wheels are the same diameter as Star Dish and larger than the rear.

The difference in overall diameter of the 2.0" vs the 2.16" vs the 2.2" wheel/tyre affects the gearing on some of these models which have limited gear ratio options. (DT01, DT02, Bear Hawk)

[T. Smith]

If the Super Fighter G wheels are the same size as the Sand Viper Speed discs, the tyres fit straight onto the Star Dish wheels without much effort (normally a tight fit). I just built this model and do not like the disc rims so used the kit tyres and Super Astute Star Dish rims. (anyone want the ugly discs?)

The rear Star Dish wheels are much bigger than that of the 2.0" rear wheels of the Fighter Buggy (6 spoke yellow - Same tyre as Manta-Ray). The front tyres/wheels are the same diameter as Star Dish and larger than the rear.

The super G wheels are the same size as a Sand viper. The Super G uses star dish/Super Astute wheels in yellow which will take the spire/square spike tires no problem, as we both know.

And as you mention the fighter buggy uses a 2" rear wheel, quite different from star dishes or Sand Viper discs. But the Studded tire on the Super Fighter G is a 2" design still found on Mantarays and Dirt Thrashers. So what is that tire doing on a star dish rim?

[TA-Mark]

But the Studded tire on the Super Fighter G is a 2" design still found on Mantarays and Dirt Thrashers. So what is that tire doing on a star dish rim?

This also has me puzzled too. There will be an explaination out there for it.

[TA-Mark]

Hey Mark, how do these Star Dish wheels compare to DF03 wheels? I've converted my Durga and 501x to 12mm style, but the Dark Impact rear wheels are offset much further in than DB01 wheels. Just curious if these wheels sit farther out on the rear than DF03s.

The Star Dish wheels are not a direct fit to the DF03. You need to use wide drive hexes and modify the lower arms slightly and remove some material from the 'braces' inside of the rim in a lathe. They do look much nicer than the DF03 wheels and the Square Spikes are much more traction on loose dirt compared to the DF03 pin spikes.

[T. Smith]

This also has me puzzled too. There will be an explaination out there for it.

I hope there is an answer. For what it's worth, I'm hoping it is the old stud spike design on a new diameter tire, and hopefully it'll be available as a spare part without the yellow rims. It'll be nice to have another Tamiya option for use on their wheels.

Thanks for your input, TA-Mark. Love your track! No wonder you need the long spikes.

[berman]

As you guys have gathered, both the Super Fighter and Dyna Storm/Super Astute wheels are exactly the same sizing in R 60-54-29-35 and F 60-54-14-19.

Square spikes R read 53-82-41-07, and Spire spikes R read 53-82-41-09

My LHS has a set of Super Fighter rear wheels in stock, I can check tyre size tomorrow while I'm there if nobody posts beforehand. The Super Fighter rims come as a pre-mounted set (maybe that's why?).

[T. Smith]

As you guys have gathered, both the Super Fighter and Dyna Storm/Super Astute wheels are exactly the same sizing in R 60-54-29-35 and F 60-54-14-19.

Square spikes R read 53-82-41-07, and Spire spikes R read 53-82-41-09

My LHS has a set of Super Fighter rear wheels in stock, I can check tyre size tomorrow while I'm there if nobody posts beforehand. The Super Fighter rims come as a pre-mounted set (maybe that's why?).

Thanks Berman, but you don't have to go out of your way. But if you happen to be passing your LHS...

I'm wondering the same thing about the tires being pre mounted to the rims. Like I said earlier, I think some poor chap in a factory is going through fingers at a rate of knots. Hopefully Tamiya are providing him with plenty of spares

If it wasn't for you posting your Super Fighter in the Postman thread, and then in your showroom, I probably wouldn't have taken a second look at this model, noticed it's tires, and started this thread. Make of that what you will

[Payden]

Hi,

the wheels of the SFG come premounted. The rims are the 2.16 star-dishes with small tyres from the DT-01/Dirt Trasher. So no need for glue...

Maybe this strange combination is because 2.0 rims don´t fit on the DT-02, they rub on the lower suspension arms.

[T. Smith]

Hi,

the wheels of the SFG come premounted. The rims are the 2.16 star-dishes with small tyres from the DT-01/Dirt Trasher. So no need for glue...

Maybe this strange combination is because 2.0 rims don´t fit on the DT-02, they rub on the lower suspension arms.

There's a ruddy big Echo in here

Hi Payden, and thanks for chiming in with your thoughts. Do you own a Super Fighter? Are you absolutely sure that the star dish rims are fitted with an older 2.0" tire? That's what it looks like from the pictures, but no one seems to know for sure. We know they are pre assembled, but we don't know what tire it is. It seems odd that Tamiya would fit a 2.0" tire over a star dish rim.

And as for your note about 2.0" rims not even fitting a DT02 chassis... That's unfortunate really, and could limit tire choice for those racers who need a 2.0" wheel and tire combo.

I have a similar problem with a DT01. I tried fitting 2wd lightweight front wheels to it the other day, but found that the nylon upright and connecting ball joint/tie rod didn't allow free fitting of the wheel. I think that the 2wd lightweights are 1.9" diameter. But that is besides the point, and I shall slap my wrist for bringing it up. This thread is about star dish wheels seemingly fitted with 2.0" tires.

[TA-Mark]

My curiosity got the better of me. I took a 2.0" Bear Hawk rear tyre and fitted it to a 2.16" Star Dish rear wheel. It wasn't as hard as I was expecting it to be, about the same as stretching a 2.16" Spire Spike over the DF03 2.2" wheel.

While I was in 'what small tyre will stretch over what large wheel' mode I also tried a 1.75" Buggy Champ rear tyre onto a 1.9" (30mm wide) tourer wheel. This is one that will give you fingers a good workout, but they did go on there and they actually look quite good.

I'd like to try a 2.0" Oval Block onto the Star Dish wheel and see how they sit. The Oval Blocks take ages to wear out and are pretty good traction on my loose dirt track.

I have a similar problem with a DT01. I tried fitting 2wd lightweight front wheels to it the other day, but found that the nylon upright and connecting ball joint/tie rod didn't allow free fitting of the wheel. I think that the 2wd lightweights are 1.9" diameter. But that is besides the point, and I shall slap my wrist for bringing it up. This thread is about star dish wheels seemingly fitted with 2.0" tires.

Try them with a Grasshopper/Hornet front steering knuckle fitted. You will need to shorten the steering link however (I have turnbuckle steering links and double wishbone front suspension on my DT01).

[Payden]

Hi Smith

I have a SFG, a DT-01 and a Dirt-Trasher. Not really sure about the size of the star-dishes, but the tyres are the same than on the Dirt-Trasher and the DT-01.

Don´t know why Tamiya choose this combination. But maybe its because the SFG is aimed for the youngsters: No need to glue the tyres, no hassle with painting the hard body. Just build and run it.

But its not impossible to mount 2.0 tyre-combos on the DT-02. How its done is explained here, but only in german.

This guy also makes an adjustable motor-mount for the DT-02, so you can check that the tyres still need no glue even when running a 3,5T

Bernd

[T. Smith]

My curiosity got the better of me. I took a 2.0" Bear Hawk rear tyre and fitted it to a 2.16" Star Dish rear wheel. It wasn't as hard as I was expecting it to be, about the same as stretching a 2.16" Spire Spike over the DF03 2.2" wheel.

While I was in 'what small tyre will stretch over what large wheel' mode I also tried a 1.75" Buggy Champ rear tyre onto a 1.9" (30mm wide) tourer wheel. This is one that will give you fingers a good workout, but they did go on there and they actually look quite good.

I'd like to try a 2.0" Oval Block onto the Star Dish wheel and see how they sit. The Oval Blocks take ages to wear out and are pretty good traction on my loose dirt track.

Try them with a Grasshopper/Hornet front steering knuckle fitted. You will need to shorten the steering link however (I have turnbuckle steering links and double wishbone front suspension on my DT01).

You're reading my mind, TA-Mark. I am going to try a new upright - Super Astute uprights. The Mad Fighter uses 5mm ball connectors, the Grasshopper, Hornet, Madcap use 4mm connectors. The thread on these is different, so I'd rather have the right upright for the right thread. Unless the 5mm ball connectors fit straight into Hornet uprights. I've got some spare, I might try it.

The toe in problem is also on my mind. The DT01 is bad enough for toe in without a different offset on the uprights. I'm not sure what adjustable steering links to use - I'm think those from the DT02 look long enough. I've no intention of going double wishbone on this car. I'll keep it basic. I just want to change it's wheels and tyres, purely for aesthetic reasons. I've been inspired by a member's black and white madcap. It looked very effective, and I'm thinking the Mad Fighter would look less like a toy with a better paint job. I wish I could remember the member's name. He has some pictures in a showroom I think (can't find them) Black and white Madcap/Astute hybrid on the starting line - indoor racing, green carpet. EDIT: Owner of this car is Kaminagayuchi

Oval Block tires are great and very underrated. I remember my first pair of oval blocks I ever fitted to my old Madcap. The original studs had worn out months before so it was overdue a new set of tires. The extra diameter added, after coming from baldies, gave a noticeable improvement in speed, but when I ran off the tarmac and onto the short grass of the cricket pitch... The speed came out of nowhere. Those tires must have found some extra grip on the carefully tended short, short grass of the cricket pitch. And, I was only running the silver can the car came with. That's when I realised the importance of the right tires for the terrain.

Thanks for your research, Mark. Maybe Tamiya have indeed fitted a stud spike on a star dish without deforming the tire. Let us know about that Oval Block idea

[T. Smith]

Hi Smith

I have a SFG, a DT-01 and a Dirt-Trasher. Not really sure about the size of the star-dishes, but the tyres are the same than on the Dirt-Trasher and the DT-01.

Don´t know why Tamiya choose this combination. But maybe its because the SFG is aimed for the youngsters: No need to glue the tyres, no hassle with painting the hard body. Just build and run it.

But its not impossible to mount 2.0 tyre-combos on the DT-02. How its done is explained here, but only in german.

This guy also makes an adjustable motor-mount for the DT-02, so you can check that the tyres still need no glue even when running a 3,5T

Bernd

Thanks Bernd. I guess the Mystery is solved. (what mystery ) Do you think you will do what TA-Mark is trying and fit other 2.0" tires to the star dish rims? If it works, fitting a hard wearing tire to the Star dish would save money in the long run. I'll check out your link too, although i can't even count to three in German.

Thanks .for your help

[TA-Mark]

You're reading my mind, TA-Mark. I am going to try a new upright - Super Astute uprights. The Mad Fighter uses 5mm ball connectors, the Grasshopper, Hornet, Madcap use 4mm connectors. The thread on these is different, so I'd rather have the right upright for the right thread. Unless the 5mm ball connectors fit straight into Hornet uprights. I've got some spare, I might try it.

The GH/Hornet does have a 4mm ball. The Lunchbox/Pumpkin (re-re) is the same steering knuckle with a longer axle and uses a 5mm ball. It's better to use a ball nut than a ball screw here. If you have some Super Astute knuckles go for it.

The toe in problem is also on my mind. The DT01 is bad enough for toe in without a different offset on the uprights. I'm not sure what adjustable steering links to use - I'm think those from the DT02 look long enough.

I've used 2 sets of DT02 turnbuckles (longer steering link from each set). The left overs from the turnbuckle packets were used on other models with similar mods. The Lunchbox got the 2 shorter turnbuckle steering links after I centred the servo on it.

I've no intention of going double wishbone on this car. I'll keep it basic.

The double wishbone front was not as difficult as it sounds. I cut the end off the DT01 lower arms. Drilled a hole through the end for a pin and fitted a narrowed Bear Hawk C-Hub. Used some of the turnbuckles from the DT02 sets for the upper link. No More funny camber angles!

Dealing with the bumpsteer was more involved which needed the steering boss moved rearward with a new alloy mount point for the boss being made up.

Does wonders for the handling and keeps the front wheels pointed where they are meant to when it's travelling 60-70km/h with a MM4600Kv and Li-Po pushing it along. I should give it a bath and take some photos so you can see what I've done.

A swaybar on the rear (stops the rolling rear end rolling when it's not wanted) and some added lead weights (helps the rear suspension work when all the weight is unsprung in the gearbox) on the rear were the only other mods I did to this chassis to get it to perform to my liking.

For me it was an exercise in 'Can I make this chassis handle good?' and I feel I succeeded in that it does just that now.

[T. Smith]

The GH/Hornet does have a 4mm ball. The Lunchbox/Pumpkin (re-re) is the same steering knuckle with a longer axle and uses a 5mm ball. It's better to use a ball nut than a ball screw here. If you have some Super Astute knuckles go for it.

I've used 2 sets of DT02 turnbuckles (longer steering link from each set). The left overs from the turnbuckle packets were used on other models with similar mods. The Lunchbox got the 2 shorter turnbuckle steering links after I centred the servo on it.

The double wishbone front was not as difficult as it sounds. I cut the end off the DT01 lower arms. Drilled a hole through the end for a pin and fitted a narrowed Bear Hawk C-Hub. Used some of the turnbuckles from the DT02 sets for the upper link. No More funny camber angles!

Dealing with the bumpsteer was more involved which needed the steering boss moved rearward with a new alloy mount point for the boss being made up.

Does wonders for the handling and keeps the front wheels pointed where they are meant to when it's travelling 60-70km/h with a MM4600Kv and Li-Po pushing it along. I should give it a bath and take some photos so you can see what I've done.

A swaybar on the rear (stops the rolling rear end rolling when it's not wanted) and some added lead weights (helps the rear suspension work when all the weight is unsprung in the gearbox) on the rear were the only other mods I did to this chassis to get it to perform to my liking.

For me it was an exercise in 'Can I make this chassis handle good?' and I feel I succeeded in that it does just that now.

Sounds like you went to town on your Fighter Buggy. With that kind of power in it, I'm surprised it doesn't spend a lot of time with it's nose in the air.

For me, I'm quite happy with it's limitations. It's why I bought it - something cheap and simple to thrash harder than my beloved Madcap. And if I can make it look better by lifting the Tamiya crazy fog, and doing something with the body that isn't the result of a bad trip, I'll be happy.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for some DT02 steering arms. Thanks for the tip on the turnbuckles. It took away my guess work.