How Has Your Perception Of Tamiya Changed?

[Saito]

Its fair to say that as we've all gotten older, we view Tamiya models in a different light. Here are some points in which my perception has changed...

Size- Wow, everything was bigger when we were smaller wasn't it? Well Tamiyas were no different. Being used to 1/14th and 1/16 Nikko and Tyco RTRs, even a lowly Grasshopper seemed pretty big. My First Tamiya was a Lunch Box and it seemed huge but today its just a mini monster. A Clod Buster was once unbelievably mammoth but today its just "big" to me.

Exotic- Ah, there was an exotic feeling to a Tamiya model back in the day. This diminishes as we are more able to afford them and we view them (as others have noted) with a bit less lust. Staring at a Tamiya was akin to seeing a movie star in the flesh when I was young. The cars were far less toy-like. In a strange way they almost seemed like full-size vehicles to me as a kid. You spoke about them in serious tones to your mates back in those days because Tamiyas were serious models.

Other makes- Tamiya wasn't alone. Certainly many offerings from AE, Kyosho, etc. were better performing but did they have that Tamiya mystique back then? They didn't for me. An Ultima may have outclassed a Frog on the track but all it took was one look at the boxes to reel you in. No mere photo of the completed model on the box for Tamiya. No, they had rich inspiring box art that instilled life to the car within that big white box. Kit lay out and parts presentation was fantastic and the manuals were the industry's best. To this day, these features make assembling a Tamiya kit a satisfying experience, one to be savored.

[Hibernaculum]

Great topic.

Size - yes, my first Tamiya (a Hornet) seemed HUGE compared to the buggies I had before

Exotic - They were totally exotic, expensive and (for my parents) pretty much out of reach for most of my childhood, and I totally agree with your perceptions there (as we already knew )

Other makes - Tamiya were always my favourite, but it has been great fun to learn over the years about what other companies were making at the same time. Now, I see them all as part of a collective 1980s "golden era" of RC, into which many vintage Maruis, Kyoshos and others all belong, because the cultural/technological similarities of RC car styles from that period are actually quite similar between the brands.

Also...

Complexity - the first time working on fixing my used Hornet seemed like a really difficult task. All those wires, and even dangerous elements like hot motors and resistor ceramics. Nikkos were never dangerous to work on.

Imagination/Mythology - When you're a kid, your imagination goes wild. I remember kids at school telling me the Frog was petrol powered, and that Frogs and Grasshoppers were better at jumping, etc. I used to hear stories at school about the amazing stunts performed by Wild Willys, and about some kid who put 2 motors into his buggy but it was so fast he couldn't control it.

Re-releases - These may change perceptions too, by making what was once rare, common again.

While it's inevitable that you have to grow up (eventually!), I still do my best to keep some of that innocent early feeling about my cars. And often I find the best way to remember how you used to feel as a kid is to look at some old catalogues. I often used to read the descriptions and dream of having those cars, and reading them now still takes me right back to how I felt before I knew much about them.

cheers,

H.

[NJhopper]

Not as fast as they seemed when you were young

[Power Surge]

I don't know if my perception has changed. It's still the same I think today as 20 years ago. I just have more money now

As a kid, I had Tamiyas and Kyoshos. The Tamiyas were more fun basher novelty RCs whereas the Kyoshos were real track racers. Tamiya had nothing competitive on the track back then and their quality of plastic (even to this day) was too brittle for real abuse. You could drive a Kyosho off a cliff and nothing would really break.

Along the way, one thing I liked about Tamiya, was that in between all the bubble gum kiddie buggys, they'd throw out something amazing. As a kid, I could buy a new Blackfoot, but a Brusier was so expensive that I figured I'd never be able to buy one. I'd just stare at the **** thing on the counter at the hobby shop in total amazement at the realistic chassis design. Same thing with the Avante. An amazing piece of engineering effort, with a big price tag, and nothing like any other buggy at the time.

Fast forward to today, and it's the same thing. Instead of the Avante, you've got cars like the 501x/511. Still amazing engineering, only this time they actually made it to win races. And instead of the Brusier, you've got the amazing TXT-1 monster truck. Bigger than a Clod Buster, and with a chassis and drivetrain like a real monster truck. There's really no NEED for Tamiya to have made this truck, but they did.

And that's what I like. They think outside the box, and aren't afraid to actually MAKE the stuff and sell it.

[94eg!]

Then: Quality and cutting edge design.

Now: Quality and cutting edge design, plus the competitive edge...

[Berenger]

I agree with everything so far.

I also think that as i've got older i've begun to see Tamiya kits for what they are in terms of quality, ease of assembly, realism of bodies etc.

When I was growing up and reaching my teen years (early 90s) there was the tendency to view Tamiya kits - and particularly people who tried to race them - as inferior and cheap. It's a strange and immature view to take since most of the people who held that view, me included, started off with Tamiya anyway. Tamiya I think in recent years has done a superb job of walking a line between cars for amateurs and cars for professional racers.

What I will say though is that i'm very disappointed in Tamiya taking the cost cutting measures it has. I completely understand the need for it, don't get me wrong, but it's a shame never the less. I first noticed it years ago with the loss of the blister packaging, then came the smaller boxes, (the smaller boxes actually is a sore point in itself, how often did you find a deformed or creased bodyshell in your kit because the kits contents were hurriedly rammed inside it?).

After the smaller boxes came the most annoying thing of all in my eyes; the chassis kit with a body thrown in. I remember a few years ago buying the Porsche GT3 kit with the TT-01E chassis. Generic manual. Unclear exactly what parts were needed for that kit because so many alternatives were there to account for others kits and no unique illustrations.

[Kokuzu]

My perception of Tamiya changed with my expectations towards better technical performance.

Play in steering or damper parts did not interest me as a kid, but does now (and may be my engineering degree contributes to this shift of priorities....)

Design was less of importance when I was young and did run the cars. Now it counts twice with the car to look scale sitting on the shelf and to behave realistic when driven.

Consumers develop and change taste and preferences over time. Tamiya's needs to develop and modify their market strategy to market needs, competition (also changing) and sales targets and many others...

I would be a fool to assume Tamiya will automatically develop their production methods, pricing and model range towards my preferences.

This gap causes me to more and more customize models to my needs and this really is what satisfies me about the hobby....

But once in a while I notice a really interesting model from a Company I never considered before - why is that?

It just happens that their strategy brought forward a product (not only new, but vintage as well) which meets your actual set of preferences - and this may ultimately result in buying the model.

E.g. I have this sensation with the HPI true ten racers.

I never closely followed their cars, but the new Cup Racers with their nicely done 70ies bodysets really make me think...

[Shodog]

the first time I saw a sand scorcher i was awe struck. the soft rubber tires. rims that bolted together and the realistic body shell showed that it was truly a hobby grade RC. with the expection of the superchamp which is a spin off of the srb and the bruiser being so close in design to the Hilux, I don't think anything after the rough rider or sand scorcher ever measured up to Tamiya's earlier car in scale appearance.

[Saito]

I agree Shodog. In those early days when the design/development field was largely wide open I half wonder if Tamiya didn't look to full scale stuff because they didn't know how to proceed. "What makes a good off road vehicle?" "I know lets look at the real thing!" Of course Tamiya had already been keen on detailed replicas of fullsize vehicles in their plastic model line so maybe those early vehicles were just a natural progression for them.

NJHopper is right about the speed thing too. My Lunchie was blindingly quick in my youth but seems to have "slowed down" as I got older.

[simondo]

My perception of Tamiya hasn`t changed much, i still think they are the bench mark company with RC cars, nowadays though they have got it pretty much right on the competition front too.They still have a good range of cars,not as varied as they were back in the day,but you can still buy a cheap basher/beginners/ intro car or an out and out racer. None of the others as far as i know,offer such a range.

I used to love the variety of cars i used to get at my club back in `86/87.... Not just just the different Tamiyas, but mardave, maplin, kysosho,schumacher,yokomo ,associated and others etc.As the years crept along towards the end of the eighties/early ninety's it seemed that everyone was running similar cars, schumacher cat or topcat, kyosho optima mid turbo or ultima, associated RC10.i still ran Tamiya, but somehow i missed the variation in makes and models. I never once went over to the darkside tho, and always stuck with tamiya, even after my brother bought a schumacher cat, which i had to admit was better and simpler than my egress.That Schumacher cat never had the magic of my Tamiya`s..........

As i said to my brother countless times...."i would rather come last driving a Tamiya, than first driving a Cat, any body can win races with a Cat, it takes a real driver to win with this beast"

[Hibernaculum]

I agree Shodog. In those early days when the design/development field was largely wide open I half wonder if Tamiya didn't look to full scale stuff because they didn't know how to proceed. "What makes a good off road vehicle?" "I know lets look at the real thing!" Of course Tamiya had already been keen on detailed replicas of fullsize vehicles in their plastic model line so maybe those early vehicles were just a natural progression for them.

Yes and in fact, this was how almost all manufacturers looked at RC - particularly the Japanese ones. Even Nikko - all Nikkos from the early-mid 80s were scale replicas of real cars. Their first off-roaders had scale sized wheels, despite often only being 1:16 or 1:14 - which meant they were totally impractical as "off roaders", however were beautiful little toys with scale-appearance.

The "perfect" design for an off road car in 1:10 scale, is of course a low centre-of-gravity truggy with fat wheels and a very flexible, tough body with no detail - this ensures survival across any terrain or in any impact. But it is also boring to look at.

Personally I prefer poor performance with good looks, over good performance with poor looks.

In the history of RC, I think there were two broad "blood lines" that evolved.

1) The line of RC cars that evolved from other model racers and other RC disciplines, and began life as dedicated racing machines in the 1970s with only mild realism.

2) The line of RC cars that evolved from plastic model kits, as a way to give functionality to static models, but which as a consequence had extreme detail.

This is just a broad theory. And I prefer #2, because I love realism.

To go back to the topic, my perception of Tamiya as one of the few (the only?) large RC makers who puts a lot of effort into realism - well, this perception is actually maintained. Even though they produce some unrealistic stuff now and things are not what they once were, Tamiya still make some lovely realistic models like the scale trucks and tanks, re-rereleases, and others. It's possible that, with nowhere else to go in terms of design, other manufacturers will start drifting back toward realistic ideas. I think we are already seeing this.

cheers,

H.

[Wrecked]

I miss the days, Tamiya named their cars after bugs...

[BangkokBulldog]

I think our age plays a huge part in our perception of Tamiya 'then and now', but as Hibernacalum said, a quick flick through an old catalogue brings that time back again.

I remember Beatties in Lewisham.A huge shop catering for all types of toys and games.The RC section was at the rear of the shop and I spent hours there. Piles and piles of Tamiya goodness coupled with nicely displayed spare parts racks and of course the display models and TV screens showing the Tamiya videos.

Being in Bangkok,Thailand, I cannot comment on UK hobbyshops nowadays.But here the Tamiya models are on the shelf, thats it.The boxes do not inspire me or make me want to purchase the kit.Except for the rereleases of course.

The only manufacturer that has made me impulse buy recently is HPI, their Cup Racer box art is nice and brought back a similar feeling to the good old Tamiya days.Shame it has some major weak points.

Cheers,

Steve.

[SteelRat]

Great thread and agree with all the points raised..

Size - definitely. I'd had a few cheapo AA powered RC's before getting the Monster Beetle in 87, and the one thing that really did strike me was just how BIG it was compared to those other cars.

Specification - Oil filled dampers that you had to put together from their component parts - on a toy car! Insane! Everything went together easily and just had that lovely Japanese air of perfect engineering and precision while still being indestructable. (I know they're not.. they just looked it. To me. At the time)

The Tamiya Factor - I'm not sure what it was (and is) that makes me love Tamiya cars so much. There's just that magical ingredient that none of the other manufacturers are quite able to muster. It's like I was saying in a thread a while ago about looking at my beat up old MB after a run - you look at it and just want to run it - it's like it's calling to you saying "goowooon charge up a battery and make me have it.. you know you want to.. who cares if it's dark outside"

As for Tamiya now, the only car I've built new that hasn't been a re-re has been the DF02 Plasma Edge. It didn't have quite the same WOW factor building it as the MB did 20 years ago, but that T-Factor is still there.

The only difference is that the competition has definitely upped it's game in that time. Axial make superb kits with really easy to follow manuals and good quality kit. Traxxas although RTR, have a tremendous reputation for durability. HPI are raising the bar all the time with the strength of their Flux cars. The next time I get an up to date Tamiya kit with a more scale looking shell (DF03RA Celica or perhaps a CC01 Paj / FJ), I think only then will I get a real feel for if things have changed or not.

[SteelRat]

To go back to the topic, my perception of Tamiya as one of the few (the only?) large RC makers who puts a lot of effort into realism - well, this perception is actually maintained. Even though they produce some unrealistic stuff now and things are not what they once were, Tamiya still make some lovely realistic models like the scale trucks and tanks, re-rereleases, and others. It's possible that, with nowhere else to go in terms of design, other manufacturers will start drifting back toward realistic ideas. I think we are already seeing this.

^This. Very much so.

[Sayer]

^This. Very much so.

God I hope so. I'm not particularly enthused by the trend of the "aerodynamic dustcover" body.

[Singapore_959]

Nikkos were never dangerous to work on.

[Live Steam Mad]

I remember Beatties in Lewisham.A huge shop catering for all types of toys and games.The RC section was at the rear of the shop and I spent hours there. Piles and piles of Tamiya goodness coupled with nicely displayed spare parts racks and of course the display models and TV screens showing the Tamiya videos.

Being in Bangkok,Thailand, I cannot comment on UK hobbyshops nowadays.But here the Tamiya models are on the shelf, thats it.The boxes do not inspire me or make me want to purchase the kit.Except for the rereleases of course.

Cheers,

Steve.

Model Zone in Liverpool (used to be Beatties) is somewhat similar to that, in that (for the last few times I have visited ove the last 3 / 4 years or so) the built vintage buggies are displayed on the shelf and in the window which is very cool. There's a certain magic for me whenever I walk into that shop. I'm 12 miles away from it in St.Helens.

The odd thing is that I don't hardly remember what it was like in the RC section when it was Beatties. I know I went in there a few times but it was always for model railways stuff. That was back in the late 1990's when I wasn't much interested in RC anymore. If anyone can tell me what the Liverpool Beatties was like for RC stuff back in the day I would be grateful. Pictures of the inside of the shop would be awesome but that's a long shot of course. Hey that gives me an idea for a new topic...

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[MadInventor]

My first Tamiya was a Sand Rover way back in the early eighties. I can remember dribbling over cars like the sand scorcher and rough rider, but they were phenomenly expensive back then. Then went to a hotshot and that seemed ballistically quick by comparison on a 1200maH 6v battery, and was one of the last cars IMO that was a racing buggy, but still had some level of realism / detail added. (Roll cage, headlights / driver figure.) Although newer buggies are faster and handle better, I didn't get the same sense of achievement in building the newer cars. The last tamiya buggy I bought was a rising storm a few years ago, and to be honest I was really not that impressed with it. Tamiya had obviously done their best to minimise the cost of the vehicle. Probably the worst example of this was the axles. These are made from extruded rod with a blob of plastic moulded on the end to accept the dogbone. Compare this with the hotshot axle, which is turned out of one piece of steel. The rising storm axles flap about in the uprights, even with roller bearings, because the extruded axle doesn't have the accuracy of the turned hotshot item, which is a good fit onto the roller bearings. The cars also seem to be a lot simpler to put together, which is probably a good thing, but is does take away some of the sense of satisfaction of building the model. I built the rising storm in a few hours, but the hotshot took me over a day. Given the choice as far as buggies are concerned, I would rather have a pre 90's tamiya buggy, than anything produced since (Ideal would be an Avante, Tamiya's 'Finest Hour' as far as 4wd racing buggies are concerned, it's been all downhill since...... )

As other people have said, the cars seem a lot slower now than when I was a kid, and now I'm more aware of the value of the vehicles. (Even though they are in real terms more affordable for me now) I never used to cringe when scraping a new bodyshell upside down the tarmac, it was just taken as read that the bodywork would get trashed in the first couple of runs. Now I'm a lot more careful, and don't tend to bash the transmissions as hard as I used to. The quality and complexity of the buggies seems to have gone downhill, with the performance V scale looks sacrificing too much scale looks in favour of performance. Not including rere models, the only recent release I've looked at and got the 'I've got to have one' bug was the 1/16 panther tank, and in the end didn't get one as the pound collapsed as Gordon Brown put a gun to head of the UK economy and then pulled the trigger.....

On the plus side, the Jugg / Txt monster trucks are a huge improvement on the 80's offerings. I had a mud blaster and shredded the diff in it in about a month on the standard silver can, it just wasn't up to the task, and destroyed the bodyshell quite easily into the bargain. The clod was an improvement, bigger, better looking, 4wd, and a bomb-proof transmission. The only problem with the clod was its tendency to go into 2wd by dumping all the power to 1 motor when it got stuck. Then along came the Jugg (I got one of these for the first time a few weeks ago, and it's fantastic- got that old buzz from getting something completely new I'd not worked on before .) Scale leaf spring suspension, mechanically linked 4wd, a big improvement on the clod, and then that was superseded by the txt, with its excellent handling and twin servo steering system. I think tamiya haven't done another electric monster truck since the txt (Not counting the rere clod) because you simply cannot improve on it (Well, maybe a jugg length wheelbase and a clodbuster shell, handling would go downhill, but it would look even better). It's the best mix of performance and scale looks for a monster truck.

Also tamiya now do the fantastic full option tanks. These feel more like the old school vintage models. Metal parts, loads of detail, technically tricky to put together and get working right, a couple of days to put one together not including painting and weathering, and something that still impresses your friends .

[markbt73]

It's funny that so many people are mentioning how fast they seemed as a kid. I remember when I first finished my Grasshopper; it was about 10PM when I tightened the last screw, and my dad and I just couldn't wait until morning. So we charged up the battery, plugged it in, set the car down on the laundry room floor, and I gingerly pushed the stick forward. The car shot ahead much faster than I was expecting, and before I could react, hit the front of the washing machine with a loud "BONGGG!" My mom came running and yelled at us for trying to run it in the house. My dad said, "Why didn't you just run it at low speed?" I replied, "That was low speed." His eyes got wide, and he grinned... morning couldn't come fast enough for either of us. The driveway was beckoning.

Anyway...

I might be the only person on here who doesn't miss the blister packs one bit. And I thought their greatest day for kit organization came when the screw bags contained all the hardware needed for a series of steps, instead of having to steal a muffin tin from the kitchen and open all the bags at once. I remember building my first non-Tamiya kit, an Associated RC12i (which was actually bigger than the box it came in when assembled, though it didn't come with a body) and wondering why Tamiya boxes had to be so big. A box of bags of parts, with the chassis plate and tires rattling around loose in the box, seemed more purposeful than Tamiya's big brightly colored packages covered in cartoons. I could never understand what made a part "blister-worthy" while other parts were hidden away, and it was always irritating to get just one part out without dumping the rest of the blister contents everywhere. I prefer the new efficient packaging, but then, I'm a builder and basher, not a collector.

Before I got into RC, when I was building static models, there was Tamiya, and there was Every Other Company. I often couldn't afford Tamiya kits, so they were kind of a treat, reserved for when I wanted to build something unusual. I could get Camaros and Jeeps from MPC, or Revell, or Monogram, but an Audi Quattro Sport? Only one place to go for that. So Tamiya developed a sort of mystique for me in that way. I was shocked when I began researching RC models to find that the entry-level Tamiya kits were actually among the least expensive. And they were ubiquitous. There were a couple Maruis and Kyoshos around, but everyone had a Tamiya. And maybe for that reason, Tamiya RC vehicles never had the panache or mystique for me that Associated or Kyosho or (gasp!) Yokomo did. They were attainable (except for stuff like the Bruiser), so they weren't special. If anything, the quirkiness and shortcomings of the designs annoyed me.

Ironically, Tamiya's RC lineup probably holds more of a special spot for me now than they did then, because so few vehicles are available these days in kit form. Associated's off-road vehicles haven't interested me since the aluminum tub went away, and I do love my Axial, but if you want the experience of building a kit, Tamiya is really the best game in town these days. I love the re-releases, but I actually don't care that much about the nostalgia factor. It's the joy of watching a pile of parts take form that I really enjoy, and then taking that finished form outside (I haven't tried to run a car inside since that first day) and watching it zip across the street or down the driveway. The design quirks and overly complicated assemblies that annoyed me so much when I was younger seem charming now. What were shortcomings are now "character."

Oh, and a 380 is definitely slower than I remember, but a 540 is still plenty of motor for most Tamiya cars for me. I definitely subscribe to the philosophy that it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

[Scorpn]

For me it was the quality and the fact that the earlier Tamiya's were "proper" RC cars (whatever that meant), compared to Nikko and the others which were cheap toys. You had to assemble the car, fit the motor and radio gear, tune it and set it up correctly and then it worked - the feeling of satisfaction .

You could paint a Tamiya the way you wanted it not the way the factory did and you knew that if you broke it you could get the parts to fix it.

I always looked at Kyosho, Schumacher and associated as pure and simple race cars (the occasional thing of beauty like the gold pan and 1987 Ultima were almost an accident) so they were engineered without compromise for that task, while Tamiya was the realistic experience, the RC cars that were like the real cars, the off roaders resembled true desert racers while the other cars were based on real vehicles (somewhat tenuously in some cases ).

This was all good stuff during the impressionable time of my youth, The mechanical skills I learnt have been invaluable throughout my life and have contributed to enjoying real cars as well.

Nowadays I am trying to recapture that same feeling of achievement, looking back to a simpler time. The new Tamiya's are still realistic - Some of them are stunningly beautiful reproductions of the original vehicles, you still get the warm feelings when a pile of junk is returned to life and when finishing a new built.

Tamiya is about realism - Just look at the works of art in peoples showrooms OMG!!, I can not believe the talent some folk have!!

They had a strong base to build on though, that just looked "right" from the start, the other makers just haven't quite got that base right and their products always look a little "not quite right" if you know what I mean.

I still get warm fuzzies building and finishing a Tamiya, whereas an Associated or Losi is an engineering marvel and bred to be competitive but they just feel soulless and the same as the others. I am more likely to put a quick "that'l do" paint job on a Losi than the Tamiya,

I guess that my perception of Tamiya hasn't really changed - Matured maybe.

Strange isn't it?

[Live Steam Mad]

My perception of Tamiya has been changed in stages ;-

1) from it seeming like a world that I could never enter in 1981 when I saw the UK Sand Scorcher advert, that mesmerised me and I stared for hours at that advert

2) to complete awe when I first met the 1987 Tamiya catalog,

3) complete adoration when I first saw a new built Blackfoot in G&I models in Wigan in about 1989 (the size of it and the realistic shell and working suspension amazed me), but ...

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4) this exact moment is also when the first doubts sets in, I instantly noticed the fragility of the thin and brittle Blackfoot bodyshell when I felt it and wondered about Tamiya's sanity LOL

5) then I met the Schumacher Cougar and Tamiya Top Force and while the Top Force impressed me by winning constantly on our flat tarmac track, I quickly noticed that the quality of the Schumacher buggy was way higher, anodised Aluminium chassis and Composite plastic wishbones in the suspension (Glass Filled Nylon ?), compared to Tamiya's normally plastic ABS bathtub and Nylon-66 parts

6) then it went downhill rapidly as I began to realise that Tamiya buggies were hopeless on the other tracks , their non-composite plastic parts broke easily, they were not competitive, Kyosho's Optima and Ultima and the Gold pan RC10 would run rings around the Tamiya cars, and Tamiya seemed to give up trying to win races, and later on I would find out that spare parts were very difficult to find for them which only made things worse and my opinion of them was that they were a joke , and I lost interest in RC when the local track was "lost" as it was a carpark which now opened on Sundays for shopping when we used to race on it , and the local Boats and Bits model shop dissappeared and Harvey along with it , this was all around 1993 ish.

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7) Big gap until my interest in RC came back to bite me in 2004 and I began to appreciate the SCALE aspect of Tamiya's models more than I had ever done before , and I began to appeciate just how clever and skillful Tamiya were at mould making and the art of injection moulding Styrene scale bodyshells when I finally got my hands on a Sand Scorcher body, plus when I got my hands on a few NIB Tamiya kits and a RR and SS body box set I could now appreciate the immense good quality of the BOX ART that went onto the adorable Tamiya boxes, and I learned to love the blister packs and the presentation of the old vintage buggies, and the icing on the cake was getting back the 1987 Tamiya catalog which was thrown out years ago and then I couldn't stop I HAD to have more vintage buggies

Cheers,

Alistair G.