World's Biggest Collectors?

[Hibernaculum 933]

There are some amazing collections out there. I really enjoy hearing about them, and looking at them (when possible). While I'm envious of what some people have (of course!), I don't wish I owned what the biggest collectors own as undoubtedly collecting "everything" means collecting many lesser models that aren't that important. I prefer to just collect the few models I really love, and that is also good for my budget.

So I'd like to open a polite discussion about the largest collections. Nobody needs to have their home address identified

But I think all collectors can (or should) admire those fortunate enough to assemble the grandest collections. And the collectors themselves shouldn't be shy, and do NOT deserve any jealous people moaning about them.

Obviously some people are very wealthy, and that's their business. But we are lucky, in this small hobby, to have a few such people who are able to gather nearly every RC model in one location for impressive photos or for the sake of history. Collecting is not a competition to see who has the most, and I don't think large collectors see it as such either. You have to do it for love of the hobby, otherwise what a lonely existence it will be. Consider also that collections of a huge scale, are in some senses a huge burden - they come with overhead costs of storage, transport, air conditioning, security, perhaps even worry (about things being stolen), and so on. If you didn't absolutely love it, you simply wouldn't do it.

I remember reading once in a car magazine, about the Pagani Zonda supercar. The magazine summed it up with one line: "be thankful that it exists". In other words you, dear reader, will never afford one, but it's nice that it is in the world! Likewise, it's nice that large RC collections worth many $millions actually exist. It would be nicer still if they stayed as one collection and became museums one day, open to visitors. I'd go, and take my kids.

So, given that this could be a sensitive topic, I guess the minimum goal of this post is just for people to mention a few "stats" that are impressive. Obviously, we have all seen those pictures of Typischdesigns collection from the German magazine, a few years ago. or the pics of Hong Kong and his real Ferrari 250GTO surrounded by NIB kits. Is there anything we can say about these, in the grand scheme of things? Is there anyone who owns more than, say, 10,000 models? Are there plans for museums anywhere? Or what about record high sale prices for certain items/kits?

Personally, I would suggest that the most immense collections in the world are by Typischdesign, Toybaron, Hong Kong and Loaded. But there may be others, and I have heard a rumour there might be someone private with a larger collection than those. But I'm only a small collector, and my knowledge is limited. For all I know, there might be dozens of collections at the "completist" scale. Since Paul is (sadly) the only one in that group who we are lucky enough to have chatting here, perhaps he has some thoughts (the spotlight goes on Paul... sorry!). Any interesting info from anyone, is appreciated!

The rest of us can impress/frighten our wives with the statistics of the big collections, make them thankful we don't spend anywhere near as much on toys, and therefore leverage a bit more money out of the household budget for ourselves in the process

H.

[loaded 4]

It seems I would be rude not to answer this one!

I considerably slowed down/stopped listing my models about a year or so ago. This coincided with my collection getting rather large to manage, personal time constraints, the implementation of a rule on the showrooms which I didn't like at the time (which I have later grown to understand) and rather a lot of hate mail (which has also gone down considerably). My current showroom stats don't really show the true extent of my collection, this is the case for other big collectors as well. I know many of the big collectors out there, including a few who don't participate in this forum or the showrooms on the main website for varied reasons.

Regarding the real stats, I am not aware of anyone who has a collection anywhere close to 5 figures (in terms of quantity of cars, not value), my general understanding from the large collectors I know is collections in this field range between 1000 and 2000 models in single, privately owned collections (by this I mean one person, not a company, more on this later). I know one chap currently renovating a 1700 square foot warehouse to make a private museum and I myself have a 550 square foot hobby room, which is more storage than display at the moment. As for myself? The quantity of models is, as you say, unimportant, but I have a varied collection (NIB, used, display and rare/unusual) of many manufacturers (mostly Tamiya however, as they are the most prolific manufacturer) and I have well over 1500 models in total. My online showroom represents less than 1/5th, or 20% of my actual collection and isn't really upto date either (I need to work on this when I have more time). There are many models still missing from my showroom and sometimes when you come across a single entry of mine, there are 3,4,or even 8 cars hiding behind that single listing. I haven't listed my NIB BMW Brabham BT50s for instance, but if I did, I would instantly double the number on Tamiyaclub.com. Olivier, for example (a private man, so I will only state here what is known publicly by his own choice) has converted a large garage to store his models and with a bit of guesswork you could come up with a figure of models that might be close to the number in his collection by looking at the photos and extrapolating a figure. We also need to be wary of collections that look large because someone has owned all those models, but not at the same time, or amalgamated collections (there are at least 2 of these I know of on Tamiyaclub.com), or those with distributor/trade access which make certain collections look much larger than they are. Equally, there are collections which include models which have been sold many times since listing (at one time, the same NIB Avante appeared 3 times in the stats, although I owned it when I listed it myself. I can be unintentionally guilty of this also, as some models I have sold are still in my showroom, as well as models missing that I haven't listed yet)

I decided some time ago to become part of the community and whilst I respect some of the large collection owners wish to remain anonymous (I know some of the reasons also) I think someone should represent this part of the community, even if it is me! Envy is one of the deadly sins but so is Pride, which can easily be attributed to someone who has a exceptional example of anything, be it wealth, collection size etc.

I have always respected certain collectors' desire to own perfect examples of kit boxes, for example, but I have never seen it my goal to own only perfect examples of kits, after all, patina is one of the things that can distinguish a re issued kit from the original in the first place. There are plenty of re issue kits if you want a perfect box and colour.

In terms of costs for certain models? I know of single models changing hands for figures in excess of $10K, which makes a NIB Toyota Hilux look like a bargain by comparison.

Collecting is also rarely limited to just one thing, for example, I also collect antique pianos, natural fancy coloured diamonds and automatic watches (something I share coincidentally, but not surprisingly with at least one other big well known collector).

Enjoy collecting and as with everything in life, don't be envious, there is always someone with more/better, but their life may lack in other areas. Be thankful for what you do have. Always. I am.

Paul

PS : Edit, thanks Jerome, I type very fast and make many mistakes, I should proof read better

[WillyChang 1814]

be a bit hard to amass 10,000 wouldn't it? in RC anyway

just guesstimates ... imho would need about 5 of every RC model every produced by every manufacturer out there, then maybe

Different world out there with diecast collectors, them Matchbox & Redline geeks got much more stock to choose from.

[loaded 4]

As well as space to store them.

There are urban legends for all types of hobby, personally I think 10,000 is a stretch. The volume alone would be incredible.

Paul.

[DCLXVI 3]

be a bit hard to amass 10,000 wouldn't it? in RC anyway

just guesstimates ... imho would need about 5 of every RC model every produced by every manufacturer out there, then maybe

Different world out there with diecast collectors, them Matchbox & Redline geeks got much more stock to choose from.

I you're only talking vintage then this might be close but if you are talking about more recent kit aswell, I think you might get close with one of each kit considering that there are quite a few manufacturers out there and there are alot of kits from each...

That would acually be a fun list to compile

[Rayman011 0]

Funny that diecast should be mentioned. I was collected diecast wayyy before I started to collect RC and I still collect diecast. I have quite a decent collection of diecast, but if I solely collected RC from the start, I think I would have had a rather vast and interestingly diverse collection, going by my tastes. LOL.

[HunterZero 76]

Whatever happened to Tamiya Man? He had a HUGE NIB collection.

- James

[loaded 4]

He sold the lot. He had a shop in New Jersey, which he closed and sold all his cars. The last contact I had with him was about a week ago. I have quite a few of his cars in my collection.

Paul.

[CosworthRich 0]

[RA1028 3]

Most RC collectors like to collect Tamiya and Kyosho and both company are from Japan. And Japan is one of the richest country in the world. I bet there will be a few big collectors there who we don't know of bacause they don't communicate in English.

I know someone in HK who claim he has at least 3 NIBs of almost everything Tamiya produced (RCs and large scale static models).

And 'lambchee' from eBay seems to have a hugh collection too although looks like he is thinning out his collection.

[Chain Driven 0]

why would pics be required in this ???

[Henk4Focus 0]

why would pics be required in this ???

NEWBIE!!! Sorry Dude, pics is not the alfa and omega here.

I would be impressed by 10 000 plus cars together in one place and it would be something if it belongs to one person. I don't really have place to store and display my 50 or so cars. Paul I would love to see all those you have. I met a collector of VW Beetle model cars at the 1990 Bug Fest in Johannesburg and was also the first time I laid eyes on a Scorcher and Blitzer Beetle. He had over 1500 different Beetles of all shapes at that stage. Might be more now and he also said that space was a major problem.

I have about 1000 Hotwheels that are still in blister packs but have stopped buying as they are getting to expensive for my liking. These too are in boxes 'cause it would be a lot of hanging space to have them all displayed. I also have some other odds and ends from Matchbox, Ertl, Solido (Now Bankrupt), Maisto and some other lesser known manufacturers.

TIMECMDR (Tariq) also has quite a few in his collection. That includes cars, NIBs and bodysets.

Paul I remember reading with interest after someone said you were very quiet about the "abuse" that you sometime have to endure from some individuals. Obviously that is because of what I would call "envious greed". So peculiar how some people respond when someone has more than them. Take Troy Heliking for instance, I envy him for his "other" toys, notably his Landy and sport cars. Would not send him "hate mail" for it though. I dream about the day I would be able to afford something like that and if it doesn't happen, well tough. All in the make up of the individual I'd say. If I had more to spend on my hobby I would but I would not spend money and let my family suffer because of it.

Sorry a little of the topic. James, I recall Tamiya Man's collection. If I'm not mistaken he had most of the list of what is on the Tamiya list of models as is on the list page of Tamiya club. I take it that J Anderson should also have some numbers as he works for Tamiya USA. Would be interesting to see some fact and figures though.

Cheers

Henk

[hedge 314]

Like H I would go to a museum I would like the uniqueness - or not - of each model to be highlighted on the description plaque.

As a display maybe a NIB a New Built and an absolutley genuine runner This for me would be the fun element, imagine the extent of the damage on say a Lunchbox - "Owned by tim aged 5, Dad bought him and sport tuned - lunch box met the garage wall and here she is today - well most of her" LOL. The tail each and every runer has to tell is beautiful in its own way. In know like me many here admire the extent of the damage cars they have recieved off ebay show. Not just the big stuff either but bits you look at and think how on earth did that happen

Slightly off base with cars I also like the details that I have seen on some of the boats Hong Kong has in his collection amazing. Often these war based boats have a much stronger story as they where based on real life as opposed to say a Wild Willy (please dont anyone drag out the old video of some full sized nutter in a swamp )

So yes I am please there are people with the means to own these collections and hope that one day in my lifetime someone is brave enough to open a museum.

Paul

[Hibernaculum 933]

Thanks to Paul for the insightful post, and everyone for the information.

Yes there are quite a few other collections that are enormous too, which I didn't mention earlier. Perhaps they are approaching the "too big for the showroom" levels of the ones I did mention. Needless to say, there are a couple of dozen collections that stand tallest, one of which I have had the pleasure of seeing for myself which was Darryn's (not all his collection is in his showroom either).

For the newbies looking for pictures, you can still access the German article about Typischdesign's collection here...

http://www.spiegel.de/auto/fahrkultur/0,1518,541223,00.html (Use Google Translate too)

And these were the Ferrari 250GTO images, hopefully Hong Kong will be ok with me mentioning also...

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.a...5&sid=22062

As Henk mentioned, Troy Heli King's showroom is special for 1:1 reasons also

To follow up some of Paul's comments...

- What were the distinguishing features of the kits that have sold for over $10,000?

- What's the highest price anyone's ever heard of or seen so far, for a single model?

- I mentioned several big collections, but how many collectors are there who are aiming for their collection to include "everything" (or close enough to everything)? Note: By "aiming" I mean those who have nearly achieved it.

- Is anyone considering building a museum that will be open to visitors?

And the questions I wonder the most...

- What's at the end of the universe?

Or more specifically, what does one find at the limit of collecting RC cars?

Let's say, if your goal is to have one of everything, and you achieve that, what then? Presumably many, many years of accumulation and discovery will then grind to a halt, and this will affect the motivation for the collecting. So has anyone reached that level yet? How does it feel to have seen/owned all the vintage models that were made during the Golden Era of RC? Of course, companies are still making new models. But somehow I doubt that the new models alone would be enough motivation to never stop collecting.

Is there a understanding by those who collect pretty much everything, that if the thrill of accumulating and "completing" were gone, eventually the collection would be sold off anyway down to only the few favourite models? Do we suppose that all big collectors will sort of hit the limit, then bounce back down to a more manageable level?

Or does it all just sit in stasis, as complete as can be, to be appreciated and enjoyed by the collector until he/she dies? (at which point it becomes someone else's problem).

The psychology of collecting is interesting - and weird. And this applies to all collections, big and small. Because the whole exercise is a strange mixture of extreme passion and dedication to assemble an array of similar items that you enjoy having. And yet ultimately (unless you have someone to pass the collection to after you die) the chances are one of your descendants, somewhere along the line, will flog it all off for cash and all your effort could be pointless. Which leads to the subject of donating it all to a museum, or somehow drawing up a will that prevents the collection from ever being disbanded

H.

[casethejoint 296]

Let's say, if your goal is to have one of everything, and you achieve that, what then?

Usually with collectors it then becomes two of everything

[WillyChang 1814]

^^ or 3... i like the "holy trinity" idea - NIB, New Built & Runner. Plus a few more for spares.

It will never 'end' as there'll always be a "better" example out there, so you'll buy that and offload any surplus later.

A true collector doesn't care a jot for what other people think, imho. (They already think he's nuts.)

Ergo a true collector won't bother opening museums, doubt they even consider what happens "afterwards".

They collect for themselves to make themselves happy, that's just about the be-it & end-all of their endeavours.

Face it - you can't really "share" a collection, can you?

Parallels exist in the art world, philately, numismatists, 1:1 classic cars etc etc.

imho you collect so you have it & nobody else does. Ownership/possession is 10/10ths of the enjoyment!

[loaded 4]

^^ or 3... i like the "holy trinity" idea - NIB, New Built & Runner. Plus a few more for spares.

It will never 'end' as there'll always be a "better" example out there, so you'll buy that and offload any surplus later.

A true collector doesn't care a jot for what other people think, imho. (They already think he's nuts.)

Ergo a true collector won't bother opening museums, doubt they even consider what happens "afterwards".

They collect for themselves to make themselves happy, that's just about the be-it & end-all of their endeavours.

Face it - you can't really "share" a collection, can you?

Parallels exist in the art world, philately, numismatists, 1:1 classic cars etc etc.

imho you collect so you have it & nobody else does. Ownership/possession is 10/10ths of the enjoyment!

Very insightful, Willy. Most of that is 100% true.

There is never an end. Most collectors won't admit this to even their own wives, but believe me. it is true. Let me put it this way, I am considering the purchase of a house next door just for the storage (of course it is an investment as well, but in reality, I don't need the house for anything other than its size and proximity to me)

Paul.

[Henk4Focus 0]

Let me put it this way, I am considering the purchase of a house next door just for the storage (of course it is an investment as well, but in reality, I don't need the house for anything other than its size and proximity to me)

I wish I could do that!!!!! What a pleasure that would be, a house just for toys!!!

Henk

[TIMECMDR 1]

TIMECMDR (Tariq) also has quite a few in his collection. That includes cars, NIBs and bodysets.

Cheers

Henk

Thank you for the mention Henk, I feel very privileged to even be mentioned amongst the likes of Typishdesign, Loaded and last but by no means least, Hong Kong but as far as one of the biggest collections in the world goes, I think i am well off the Rictor Scale, ( bottom end that is LOL )

As far as owning 10000 models and being in control of the situation as a one man army, now that would be a sight worth seeing, Museum or no Museum. I speak to Paul (Loaded) frequently who I know has in excess of 2000 models!!!!!!!!!!! and then theres parts, bodysets etc etc!!! No doubt he can confirm he is for ever losing kits here and there!! Hence the purchase of his neighbours house is needed!! I don't have anywhere near that many (probably a quarter of) and I am frequently losing stuff!!!

I purely got into RC collection as I have always had a fascination with cars & collections and decided to buy a few, one thing lead to another and I was in need of help as with most of us TC members!!

I also agree with WillyChang "People collect for themselves to make themselves happy, that's just about the be-it & end-all of their endeavours." and you can never achieve your goal as far as collecting is concerned IMHO even if it was to achieve one, two or three of everything as there will always be better condition models that one always would like to replace an existing one with and it carries on indefinitely!!

Life is short you enjoy what you enjoy

Tariq

[WillyChang 1814]

... I am considering the purchase of a house next door just for the storage

its easier to do up the new place then move-in, mothball the old.

Don't Ask.

[Hibernaculum 933]

There is never an end. Most collectors won't admit this to even their own wives, but believe me. it is true.

I don't think it's true in my case. Unless I'm deluding myself.

My collection is tiny compared to what's mentioned here, but I have always had a specific set of cars I've wanted to own, and I am doing the Holy Trinity thing. There are roughly 20 Vintage Tamiyas that I focus on. I have 2 NIBs for most of those + 1 runner and a stock of spares.

So there's 60 cars as a basis.

Over time I have added new models to my wanted list, especially in the area of non-Tamiya. But I honestly can see a limit to this, because there are a limited number of cars that I think are worth collecting.

If a collector focusses on vintage, surely they will hit a limit eventually? Owning dozens of the same car could keep it going awhile, but perhaps that doesn't bring as much happiness. Perhaps it's only when collecting all the new stuff, that it can truly continue forever. Since I'm not interested in the new stuff, I feel as though there's a real limit to my collection....eventually.

But then this thread isn't about targeted collections, but rather the untargeted ones that have no specific rules So my personal collecting logic is irrelevent.

H.

[slimmy 0]

This is an interesting thread. yes some people have more money to work with than others. But I enjoy all the collection. especially my own The biggest collectors that I know of is loaded and hong kong. And loaded, I wanted you to know i love looking at your amazing collection. Its great. how could any body send you hate mail. thats rediculous. I think you should put more of your collection in your showroom. And any body dont like it. well they can.........well you know what I mean. Thanks everyone for letting me stick my two cense in. Now sence i don't spend much time on the forums i think Ill just go back to the home site and see if there are any new entries.

[slimmy 0]

Usually with collectors it then becomes two of everything

I have noticed i am starting to desire a second of several of my models. I think I might have to fight off this desire as the amount of money i have invested i could build a house.

[WillyChang 1814]

"North Pole, Alaska" - can't be that expensive

don't you just put a few crates of water outside, wait for them to freeze then stack 'em up to build another igloo?

(Carting supplies wouldn't be too cheap i guess... all knowledge extrapolated from "Ice Road Truckies")

[slimmy 0]

"North Pole, Alaska" - can't be that expensive

don't you just put a few crates of water outside, wait for them to freeze then stack 'em up to build another igloo?

(Carting supplies wouldn't be too cheap i guess... all knowledge extrapolated from "Ice Road Truckies")

I think you watch to much TV. besides what the history channel doesnt tell you, is the **** penguins take over everything!