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Henk4Focus

Top 10 Collectables

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Back in 2004 when I build my first Tamiya, Twin Detonator, I met Jaco Louw which is a good friend these days. He really got me into the collecting Tamiya game. From him I got the list of what was then considered the 10 most desirable Tamiyas. I would like to know if that list is still relevant today. Last night I paged through printouts I made in 2005 of these 10, actually 11 cars. Here is the list to explain the 10/11 thing.

It was as follows.

In joint first place............ Drum roll................... :)

58028/58029 Hilux 4x4 and Blazin Blazer

2. 58016 Sand Scorcher

3. 58048 Toyota Hilux Bruiser

4. 58111 Toyota Hilux Mountaineer

5. 58015 Rough Rider

6. 58034 Super Champ

7. 58035 Wild Willy Willys

8. 58058 Blackfoot

9. 58059 Porsche 959

10. 58063 Vanessas Lunchbox

How does this look against what you all consider these days?

Let the discussion begin.....

Henk ;)

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Maybe bump either the montaineer or the bruiser as they are pretty much the same and add the Brat

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The Lunchbox must be out of the list now, because of the re-re.

-Lars

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The Lunchbox must be out of the list now, because of the re-re.

-Lars

As well as the sand scorcher and rough rider / buggy champ. The fox must be one of the rarest to find tamiyas now, rarely see them on ebay

Also tamiyas 1/16 Flakpanzer Gepard. How often d'you see them for sale (I've only spotted 2nibs in about 4 years and they were priced at around £3000)

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In joint first place............ Drum roll................... ;)

58028/58029 Hilux 4x4 and Blazin Blazer

2. 58016 Sand Scorcher

3. 58048 Toyota Hilux Bruiser

4. 58111 Toyota Hilux Mountaineer

5. 58015 Rough Rider

6. 58034 Super Champ

7. 58035 Wild Willy Willys

8. 58058 Blackfoot

9. 58059 Porsche 959

10. 58063 Vanessas Lunchbox

Henk :P

I can't believe 58001 is not on the list, I thought Numero Uno would be quite collectable even in 2004 ;)

T

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Back in 2004 when I build my first Tamiya, Twin Detonator, I met Jaco Louw which is a good friend these days. He really got me into the collecting Tamiya game. From him I got the list of what was then considered the 10 most desirable Tamiyas. I would like to know if that list is still relevant today. Last night I paged through printouts I made in 2005 of these 10, actually 11 cars. Here is the list to explain the 10/11 thing.

It was as follows.

In joint first place............ Drum roll................... ;)

58028/58029 Hilux 4x4 and Blazin Blazer

2. 58016 Sand Scorcher

3. 58048 Toyota Hilux Bruiser

4. 58111 Toyota Hilux Mountaineer

5. 58015 Rough Rider

6. 58034 Super Champ

7. 58035 Wild Willy Willys

8. 58058 Blackfoot

9. 58059 Porsche 959

10. 58063 Vanessas Lunchbox

How does this look against what you all consider these days?

Let the discussion begin.....

Henk :P

Well, as with anything, collectability is based on demand, and demand is based on personal preference.

I'd leave the RR and SS in there just because they are historically important models, but take the SC out as it's just a follow up model to the RR. Leave the Bruiser in for that chassis, but take out the other shared chassis. Wild Willy, eh, not sure it's impact was enough to be considered desireable. Blackfoot maybe, everyone had one, and it represents the ORV chassis line (although the Frog was probably just as important). I was never into the onroad cars, but i've seen enough posts here to know the 959 is a big collector. As for the Lunchbox, again, probably not enough importance to be considered collectable, especially since the re-re is pretty much the identical truck.

There is one model missing from that list, that is probably THE most collectable of the vintage series.... the Avante. Demand is always there and prices reflect that.

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I don't see the 934 on there... Wouldn't that be the most collectible?

Or is this more a list of 'most recognised' rather than perceived value?

-Steve

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My take on the list:

1. 58028 Toyota Hilux 4x4

2. 58016 Sand Scorcher (knocked off the #1 spot after re-release)

3. 58048 Toyota Hilux Bruiser

4. 58111 Toyota Hilux Mountaineer

5. 58029 Blazing Blazer

6. 58072 Avante

7. 58015 Rough Rider

8. 58035 Wild Willy Willys M38

9. 58059 Porsche 959

10. 58079 Egress

Just not making the cut - Monster Beetle. Definitely Monster Beetle > Blackfoot.

Also just not making the cut - Wild One. Just not as exclusive as the others on the list.

Also just not making the cut - Top Force Evolution, bumped out by its high-spec brethren, the Avante and Egress.

**EDIT** Another just not making the cut - Dyna Storm

Not making the list - Super Champ. They just don't seem to be as collectible as the other SRBs, and some even argue that they aren't an SRB (but that's a whole other thread).

Of the TA01/02 touring cars, the Taisan Porsche 911 GT2 is most collectible. Anything Porsche eg, the PIAA GT2 seems collectible, and the BTCC cars like the Volvo 850 and Alfa are reasonably popular.

- James

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my two cents:

1. Sand Scorcher (Rough Rider) ORIGINAL
2. Blazing Blazer (Totoya 4x4)
3. Wild Willy M38 ORIGINAL
4. Fast Attack Vehicle
5. Toyota 4x4 Bruiser
6. Avante
7. Egress
8. Porsche 934
9. Black Foot (Monster Beetle) ORIGINAL
10. Clod Buster (BullHead) ORIGINAL

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my two cents:
1. Sand Scorcher (Rough Rider) ORIGINAL
2. Blazing Blazer (Totoya 4x4)
9. Black Foot (Monster Beetle) ORIGINAL
10. Clod Buster (BullHead) ORIGINAL

Hey, no cheating! You can't lump two different models together at the same spot.

Eg, Monster Beetle is more collectible than the Blackfoot.

Hilux 4x4 more collectible than the odd-looking Blazer

Sand Scorcher definitely a lot more collectible than the Rough Rider

Clod Buster definitely a lot more collectible than the Bullhead

- James

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It all comes down to the definition of "Collectablilty"....

As seen above, some think it's something to with value, some think it's related to raity, while other think it's "Desire"

All of them are correct (and there is surely more reasons), so this thread will go all over the place...

What defines "Collectability" ?

- Value? (the highest priced)

- Rarity? (the hardest to get)

- Acknowledgement ? (being recogniced as "something")

- Desire? (your own definition...)

- Historic "value" (was it special?)

- more?

We will probably find that most of us define "Collectability" as a mix of a few of the above. Making "polls" like this more or less impossible.

-Lars

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Lars, you reasoning is spot on. Back when I started out I didn't know a Scorcher from a Rough Rider. I wanted the Twin detonator because the box appealed to me. I was so disappointed when I discovered that I actually bought a bit of a "nobody Loves Me" truck. I still love mine and will never stop liking it. = Desirable

The Hilux, Scorcher and some others will always get a mention. I would so like to have a NIB The Fox and a Wild One. Chances of that, less that 5% I think. They are just to rare and I would not be able to justify the price if someone offered it to me.

I agree that this would be almost impossible to get the real top 10 but at least 3 or so we can put right up there to be in most people's lists.

Henk :)

LONG LIVE KING CLOD!!! :P

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I can't believe 58001 is not on the list, I thought Numero Uno would be quite collectable even in 2004 :)

T

Same thought.

Seems more of a popularity contest. Its all subjective.

On the up, good job Henk

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it would seem that collectability is a funny beast.

as mentioned,the latest re-releases would suggest that one collector may view a re-released model as "less demand for original"

another may view the same re-release (even if identical) ,a seperate model, simply due to its model number.example..58045 Hornet..re-re Hornet 58336.

This may be also due to perceived value....why pay stacks of cash for an "old" Hornet when i can get a "new" one for less.

Its interesting that certain models maintain their widest range of collectability even if they have been re-released in one form or another,perhaps thats due to Tamiya applying some well placed alterations to keep both "original" and "new" collectors happy?

I say this above as im sure everyone would agree that there is a pattern between collectable,high value,and rarity even in R/C cars and as yet most top ten suggestions involve some of the "not re-red....yet" models.

incidently due to the "sample photos" of the Holiday Buggy,surely that would make the original FAR more exclusive! LOL!

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Slimmy's top ten list. #1-sand scorcher

2-Rough rider

3-hilux

4-bruiser

5-blazing blazer

6-super champ

7-mountaineer

8-avante

9-porsche 934 valliant

10-porsche 959 rothmans

Now this is just my tamiya top ten list. I could also make a kyosho top ten list.

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How about top 10 least collectable from Tamiya RC collection. I mean you will never buy it and even if someone offer it to you free of charge, you have to think about it. A real stinker and you wouldn't touch is with 23ft pole.

I'll start off with those boy racers and the polybody JDF copy of the US hummer, dual hunter, striker, and few more which I have look up later....

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Always surprises me that these are so seldom mentioned:

Can Am Lola RM1

FAV

Road Wizard

When was the last time you saw any of them for sale? If collectable means people who have them don't want to part with them... that is my take on the term collectable at the moment. Hard to get. Sold in limited numbers (much more so than any on the above lists). All 3 rather unique/special models.

Although for that matter the Striker should be included! :rolleyes:

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My 2 cents - to me truest definition of "collectibility" worldwide, has to simply be price. Price (and I am talking the real end-price in a democratic auction in which people bid, not the "asking price" of random idiotic sellers on eBay who are just hoping for a sucker to come along) is as close as we can get to a true reflection of supply vs demand. Even if something is ultra rare, it won't be worth anything if nobody wants it. And if something is plentiful, but the demand still outstrips supply, the price will still skyrocket.

Therefore, the basic Porsche 934 (kit #1) can't be the most collectible, as it has never been the highest priced kit among collectors. It's been around the $1000-$1500 mark for years, even though people occasionally try to push it higher artificially.

The black Porsche on the other hand, is the highest price kit and is therefore the most collectible, even though not THAT many of us really care about it (I personally don't, as the off-road models have always been the coolest kits to me, and for that sort of money you can own virtually all the classic off-roaders). Still, enough collectors want it, and there are so few in existence, so the price on it runs sky-high - $10,000 or more.

After that, it's the usual suspects - Blazing Blazer, Hi-Lux, Bruiser, Mountaineer, Sand Scorcher.....all have seen examples brush the $5000 mark over the years (I'm sure isolated private examples have been higher, I'm just speaking generally). Few of them come up anymore too. A few years ago - 2005 - eBay was still full of vintage kits. It wasn't uncommon to see 25% of the first 100 Tamiyas available on eBay at any time. But it has really died off in the past 2-3 years.

Then you go down into the sub-$3000 range, where the Avante and a bunch of others can be found these days. Some Kyosho kits are also comfortably reaching this level now.

H.

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My 2 cents - to me truest definition of "collectibility" worldwide, has to simply be price. Price (and I am talking the real end-price in a democratic auction in which people bid, not the "asking price" of random idiotic sellers on eBay who are just hoping for a sucker to come along) is as close as we can get to a true reflection of supply vs demand. Even if something is ultra rare, it won't be worth anything if nobody wants it. And if something is plentiful, but the demand still outstrips supply, the price will still skyrocket.

My 5c (since the 2c coin is discontinued here and hence more collectible than a 5c...)

To me, collectibility is a function of variables. Cost is a factor, but doesn't tell the whole story.

Let's define:

Demand = people actively trying to purchase something, or would buy one if they had the chance for the right price.

Collectibility = the percentage of collectors who would like to have one (or more!) in their collection, or already have one, price not being a factor.

'Collectibility' is very similar in that respect to demand and they are somewhat linked, but they're not quite the same thing. Collectibility usually also implies the object being collected is either out of production, or expected to have limited production, which results in a certain extra level of demand for a product, so rarity is a factor. Collectability is also determined by an 'X' factor that makes that product more appealing. Eg, some collectors may collect all Porsches, or a certain item may be identified as being 'iconic' of the brand or 'exclusive'. This also affects collectibility.

Similarly, cost is yet another variable. Cost is not only affected by demand, it is also influenced by rarity. Ie, cost is a function of demand, collectibility, X-factor and rarity, and likewise collectibility would be a function of rarity, demand, X-factor and cost.

Therefore cost is a rough approximation, but not a fully accurate way to determine collectibility, as it doesn't represent the whole story.

Eg: The black Porsche 934 is the most expensive because it is super rare, and it is a Porsche and people collect Porsches, but that does not make it the most collectible. While rarity is high, and cost is through the roof, demand for the black Porsche is very low. It is so rare, it is an obscure kit - so obscure, not many people know it exists, and given the price is usually so prohibitive, demand is very low. Not to mention the price for an item is somewhat distorted when you get an item this rare. The main reason they are so expensive is because the specific collectors in the market for these are willing and able to pay a very high cost.

Eg 2: Consider the variables for a Sand Scorcher. They have an X-factor, they are beetles and people like beetles, and they are hugely iconic of the Tamiya brand. Many people want them, many people have them, and while originals still command a price that is not as high as a black 934 and they are not as rare, the original Scorchers still command a high price and are quite rare compared to other kits, so I'd say overall it is more collectible.

But note that going by the above equation, as you would expect, the re-re has affected collectibility somewhat. It has lowered the demand for the item by 'satisfying' some of the demand and lowering the exclusiveness and rarity (for people who aren't too concerned with the differences in the kits), hence the collectibility has dropped slightly.

For this reason, I'd still say that the Hilux and Sand Scorcher have to be at the top in terms of collectibility, all factors considered.

- James

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Seeing the lists it is making me wonder what all re-relases do with the collectables.

Maybe NOT selling my Bigwig is the best thing I have done since they will never re-release that brick!

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