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Sport Tuned Motors In A Clod

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Pity they won't suit the Clod then, but they are good motors so I am sure you will find a good use for them.

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Today i've tried the sport tuned motor in both directions

The pitch of the sound in the rotationdirection is higher than against the rotationdirection.
Sadly i have no accurate tuner (for musicinstrumentes) at home, so i can't post the exact frequenzies.

But anyways, the motor is timed. For shure!

Pity they won't suit the Clod then, but they are good motors so I am sure you will find a good use for them.

Now we just need a way to make sure this information is easy to find for the next folks who want to know if the Sport Tuned motors are advance timed or not! You'd think there would be an easier way to find this out than getting out the pitch pipe. ^_^

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Well, it's strange, because the one I have looks like it has zero timing - the mounting holes line up with the tabs for the wires just like a normal 540. But it shows a definite "direction of rotation" on the can. So the timing must be internal; the brushes must be on longer "arms" or something? But then, the car it was in (re-re FAV with a TEU101) seemed to be as fast backwards as forwards...

It sure would be nice if we could get a straight answer from the Big T on this one. I still suspect that the "Sport-Tuned" moniker has meant different things at different times.

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Now we just need a way to make sure this information is easy to find for the next folks who want to know if the Sport Tuned motors are advance timed or not! You'd think there would be an easier way to find this out than getting out the pitch pipe. ^_^

I don't have one but if I did I can check it both rotating directions on my RPM checker to see for sure.

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Sadly i have no rpm-meter to check the exact rpms.

But today I wrote an e-mail to tamiya Germany and asking for an answer.

ps: I did not found the Tamiya USA or Japan mailadress and I can't speak Japanese to ask them in the propper language.

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There's always been confusion about the sport tuned motors being either 23T with no timing or 27th with timing.

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All people in the internet who opened the motor say that it is a 27 turner.

(By all people I mean all posts I've found via the bing search engine...)

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Is it possible to unbuild a sport tuned Motor that the Timing is in reverse?

 

 

I think 2 super stock BZ Motors are too much for a clod and it would be to much for the standard ESC, i think.....

Because of Safetyissues in my wooden Cabin i do not want to go the LiPo way.

And 2 x 7.2 Batteries are to heavy for the topheavy Clodbuster.

Also a 8.5 Battery would not fit into the Batterytray....

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Nothing is impossible... just grab your canopener :rolleyes: open up the SportTuned, work out how much it's advanced (vs midpoint of magnets = zero timing) then reassemble it with the timing advanced the other way instead.

Or get a pair of modified motor cans, put armature from 540 motor in them & set timing however you wish. (Modified motor cans will bolt back together...)

Trinity used to sell a pigeonpair of Monster Horsepower motors for Clod use.

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I've seen people claim both that it's a 27T with timing and that it's a genuine 23T

It's the same with the torque tuned, some say it's an advanced silver can and some say it's genuinely 25T

One thing I do know is that my torque tuned has the original Mabuchi markings on the can which definitely state it's a 25T motor. I have never known Mabuchi to lie about their motor specs, they usually state quite clearly in their spec sheets if a motor has adjusted timing so you might see two motors with the same specs but different performance on the same spec sheet. I have never known them to adjust the timing of a motor and then market it as a motor with less turns. I'm not saying Tamiya don't do this but I found it interesting that the Mabuchi factory markings agreed with Tamiyas claims. 

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:D just pop in 2 dirt cheap RC4WD 20 turn rock crawler motors and call it a day. I run them in my clods and they work great!

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Do you use the standard Tamiya Doublemotor ESC?

 

How much of a Difference do the Motors make? Are they like a Sport Tuned Tamiya one?

I do not want to overpower the Clod because it is a Chromeclod and i do not want to scratch the Body.

With the Silvercans the Truck flips over from time to time when i hit the Brake....

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57 minutes ago, whahooo said:

Do you use the standard Tamiya Doublemotor ESC?

 

How much of a Difference do the Motors make? Are they like a Sport Tuned Tamiya one?

I do not want to overpower the Clod because it is a Chromeclod and i do not want to scratch the Body.

With the Silvercans the Truck flips over from time to time when i hit the Brake....

you can use the stock esc with the RC4WD 20 turn motors... top speed on 2S is like 16MPH with them

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Ok, thanks!

 

PS:

I don`t use LiPo Batteries and i am not familliar with mp/h....

In my Country wie use km/h and i doon`t know how fast my Clod is in this Moment.

But i wached your Youtube Videos with the Clod and Bullhead with the 20 Turn Mootor and the LiPo. I don`t know if ist a huge gain in Speed in comparision with the Silvercans.

Iwould be interrested what a 3s LiPo could do to my Models, but all of my Models are in a Cabin in the Woods, there is absoluetly no Fireresistance to the how nor the Area round the House.

In the House it gets REALLY freezy in the Wintertimes, ist so cold that Water freezes after 2 Days without heting from the oven, and we only heat (with Wood) when we are at home on Weekends or Holidays. Thats the Reason i do not use LiPos yet.

 

PPS:

Maybe i should get a Lexanshell for running :D

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2 hours ago, whahooo said:

Ok, thanks!

 

PS:

I don`t use LiPo Batteries and i am not familliar with mp/h....

In my Country wie use km/h and i doon`t know how fast my Clod is in this Moment.

But i wached your Youtube Videos with the Clod and Bullhead with the 20 Turn Mootor and the LiPo. I don`t know if ist a huge gain in Speed in comparision with the Silvercans.

Iwould be interrested what a 3s LiPo could do to my Models, but all of my Models are in a Cabin in the Woods, there is absoluetly no Fireresistance to the how nor the Area round the House.

In the House it gets REALLY freezy in the Wintertimes, ist so cold that Water freezes after 2 Days without heting from the oven, and we only heat (with Wood) when we are at home on Weekends or Holidays. Thats the Reason i do not use LiPos yet.

 

PPS:

Maybe i should get a Lexanshell for running :D

I run the lexan shell on my clod and it makes it handle much better ,It's definitely faster with the 20T motors because the stock motors are 27 turn and slower.  check out my clodbuster and bull head videos on youtube SHEN RC

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So i watched a lot of your Videos on Youtube.

The Clod with the 20T RC4WD Motors seems not to be that much faster than my Clod (NiCd and NiMH Batterys Standardsize).

I want to go 1 Step faster, but not tooo fast, the Super Stock BZ 23T Motors are a bit to  much for the Clod, i`m in Search of a Motor between.

The Sport Tuned would be perfect if there were a "Reverse Sport Tuned Motor"

 

Also , today a were a the local Hobbyshop and the employee made a good Point: "Forward Motors with Zero Timinig are still Forward Motors. Because the Brushes have a prefered Direction. So even if you time The Motor to Zero, it would run better Forward than reverse. That is the Reason why there are These 550 Traxxas Monstertruckmotors in Forward and Reverse."

 

 

Are there any Forward an reverse Motors out there????

And if the Direction of the Brushes make that much difference, why didnT Tamiya pack 2 different Motors in the Kit? In the Kit are 2 ordanary Silvercans.....

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Best pound for pound performance in the clod is the standard silver can motors on 3s lipo using the hobywing 860 esc. Beyond that, the chassis and handling really doesn't benefit from more power even with oil dampers.

Most mod or sports motors from other brands lack the torque for the clod anyway. 

The Traxxas 550 motors really only benefit once you increase battery voltage to the 8.4+ packs.

You can zero time or reverse time the Tamiya Superstock Motors by cutting the timing locking tab and adjusting inc depending on which motor needs reversing. 

For simplicity, I always found the Tamiya Superstock BZ motors with timings adjusted accordingly on NiMH packs or the Silvercans on 3s lipos the perfect option on the clod. 

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On 5/23/2018 at 12:31 PM, whahooo said:

So i watched a lot of your Videos on Youtube.

The Clod with the 20T RC4WD Motors seems not to be that much faster than my Clod (NiCd and NiMH Batterys Standardsize).

I want to go 1 Step faster, but not tooo fast, the Super Stock BZ 23T Motors are a bit to  much for the Clod, i`m in Search of a Motor between.

The Sport Tuned would be perfect if there were a "Reverse Sport Tuned Motor"

 

Also , today a were a the local Hobbyshop and the employee made a good Point: "Forward Motors with Zero Timinig are still Forward Motors. Because the Brushes have a prefered Direction. So even if you time The Motor to Zero, it would run better Forward than reverse. That is the Reason why there are These 550 Traxxas Monstertruckmotors in Forward and Reverse."

 

 

Are there any Forward an reverse Motors out there????

And if the Direction of the Brushes make that much difference, why didnT Tamiya pack 2 different Motors in the Kit? In the Kit are 2 ordanary Silvercans.....

RC4wd 20 turn motors are way more RPM than a stock 27 turn motor I get 16MPH with the 20T motors what's a stock clod like 10MPH or so... the 20T motor is hotter than the tamiya 23 turn.

if you want fast and want to break your clod a lot get 2 HPI firebolt 15 Turn motors but then you also need to buy a better ESC to run them.

the reason why there are two traxxas forward and reverse 550 motors is not because the motors are different it's because traxxas packages them with the wires soldered on them different so they rotate differently so they label them forward and reverse so you buy the motors pre wired up correctly ware as with the other 0 timed motors like the RC4WD 20T motors you have to put one lead from the esc to the motor backwards or unsolder the motor leads and reverse them.

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Thanks for that Info about the 550 Motos.

 

So that the Brushes have a dedicated Direction isn`t true?

The Guy in the Hbbyshop told me that there are "Forwardmotos" and "Backwardmotors" because of the Design of the Brushes and that Timing only controles the "Punch" of the Motors. And that a Zero timed Motor doesn`t run in the same Speed in both directions (because it still is a Forward designed Motor....).

He Said that brushless Motors can be reversed if you solder the Cables or do something with the Programchip or Sensor or some Stuff like that....   ....i didn`t listen because i want to stay brushed.

 

So anyway, i searched for the Specs of the 20T RC4WD Motor.

My expierience tells me that the Turns do not say a lot about Tourque or RPMs. The Sporttuned 27T Tamiya Motor is a lot faster then the cheapo 17T Motor from Absima.

So here are the Specs that i Found:

RC4WD 20T:

At No Load RPM @ 7.2V : 20000 +10% , 2Amp Current

Rated load RPM @ 7.2V : 18400 +10%, 7.92Amp Current

Didn`find anything about the Tourque, but it is a Crawler Motor so the Tourque would be very High...

 

Super Stock BZ 23T:

R.P.M. at best efficiency: 26,500rpm (7.2V)

Torque at best efficiency: 500g-cm (7.2V)

 

Sport Tuned 27T:

R.P.M. at best efficiency: 18.300 rpm (7.2V)

Torque at best efficiency: 350g-cm (7.2V)

 

 

 

So it seems that the Tamiya Motors provide a lot more Power than most of the Motors from other Manufactrures.

So i think the 20 Turn RC4WD Motors are not hotter than the Super Stock 23T Motors.

But otherwise, i do not have the knowledge of or expierience like you.

 

 

Maybe i`ll test These 20 Turn Motors.

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3 hours ago, whahooo said:

Thanks for that Info about the 550 Motos.

 

So that the Brushes have a dedicated Direction isn`t true?

The Guy in the Hbbyshop told me that there are "Forwardmotos" and "Backwardmotors" because of the Design of the Brushes and that Timing only controles the "Punch" of the Motors. And that a Zero timed Motor doesn`t run in the same Speed in both directions (because it still is a Forward designed Motor....).

He Said that brushless Motors can be reversed if you solder the Cables or do something with the Programchip or Sensor or some Stuff like that....   ....i didn`t listen because i want to stay brushed.

 

So anyway, i searched for the Specs of the 20T RC4WD Motor.

My expierience tells me that the Turns do not say a lot about Tourque or RPMs. The Sporttuned 27T Tamiya Motor is a lot faster then the cheapo 17T Motor from Absima.

So here are the Specs that i Found:

RC4WD 20T:

At No Load RPM @ 7.2V : 20000 +10% , 2Amp Current

Rated load RPM @ 7.2V : 18400 +10%, 7.92Amp Current

Didn`find anything about the Tourque, but it is a Crawler Motor so the Tourque would be very High...

 

Super Stock BZ 23T:

R.P.M. at best efficiency: 26,500rpm (7.2V)

Torque at best efficiency: 500g-cm (7.2V)

 

Sport Tuned 27T:

R.P.M. at best efficiency: 18.300 rpm (7.2V)

Torque at best efficiency: 350g-cm (7.2V)

 

 

 

So it seems that the Tamiya Motors provide a lot more Power than most of the Motors from other Manufactrures.

So i think the 20 Turn RC4WD Motors are not hotter than the Super Stock 23T Motors.

But otherwise, i do not have the knowledge of or expierience like you.

 

 

Maybe i`ll test These 20 Turn Motors.

Hi already explained  about 0 timed motors so I wont again, also the 20T motors are hotter 20T is the times the wire is wound around the armature sections of the motor, a 27 turn has 27 turns around the armature and a 23 turn has 23 turns around the armature and the less turns of wire around the armature the hotter the motor is (faster RPM)  but this is not 100% true because you can have a 20T motor and lets say a 23T motor with all better components on it like better brushes magnets and ball bearings then the higher turn 23t motor most likely will be better and faster than a cheapo 20T motor... 

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On 5/23/2018 at 12:31 PM, whahooo said:

Also , today a were a the local Hobbyshop and the employee made a good Point: "Forward Motors with Zero Timinig are still Forward Motors. Because the Brushes have a prefered Direction.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I'm unaware of this being the case. I remember special cut brushes for use in open endbell  stock and modified motors back in the day perhaps having a specific direction depending on how it was cut/shaped. As far as I know the average sealed can motor (Sport Tuned, 540, Torque Tuned, etc.) don't have brushes with a preferred direction.

Now, if a motor is brand new and 0 timed, you should break them in in the direction they will normally run. Then the brushes will take a "set" to going that direction in the future.

I always figured if the motor has an arrow for rotation direction, then its timing is simply advanced. In fact the great debate over what the Sport Tuned motor actually is hinges on that fact. For years there has been debate whether the Sport Tuned was 27 turn advanced or 23 turn advanced. I've seen one taken apart and it was 27 turn. This means all the extra power it has over a silvercan 540 come mostly from the advanced timing. Until someone shows me a cut apart Sport Tuned with 23 turns, I'm sticking with the 27 turn fact.

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1 hour ago, shenlonco said:

Hi already explained  about 0 timed motors so I wont again, also the 20T motors are hotter 20T is the times the wire is wound around the armature sections of the motor, a 27 turn has 27 turns around the armature and a 23 turn has 23 turns around the armature and the less turns of wire around the armature the hotter the motor is (faster RPM)  but this is not 100% true because you can have a 20T motor and lets say a 23T motor with all better components on it like better brushes magnets and ball bearings then the higher turn 23t motor most likely will be better and faster than a cheapo 20T motor... 

I understand what Timing is, also what the Turns mean.

I´m sorry if i missunderstood anything you wrote of if i could not explain what i was thinking.

It could be a Languageproblem, because my english is very bad and that tends to Errors in the communication. Also, i do not know a lot of RC Parts - so my Questions could be more than below the average Questionqualitys in this Forum.

So, sorry if i was rude, dumb or anything like that.

17 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

Perhaps I'm wrong but I'm unaware of this being the case. I remember special cut brushes for use in open endbell  stock and modified motors back in the day perhaps having a specific direction depending on how it was cut/shaped. As far as I know the average sealed can motor (Sport Tuned, 540, Torque Tuned, etc.) don't have brushes with a preferred direction.

Now, if a motor is brand new and 0 timed, you should break them in in the direction they will normally run. Then the brushes will take a "set" to going that direction in the future.

That was the Answer that i was in search of.

I never had opened a Motor, so i do not knof how the brushes look like.

17 minutes ago, Saito2 said:

I always figured if the motor has an arrow for rotation direction, then its timing is simply advanced. In fact the great debate over what the Sport Tuned motor actually is hinges on that fact. For years there has been debate whether the Sport Tuned was 27 turn advanced or 23 turn advanced. I've seen one taken apart and it was 27 turn. This means all the extra power it has over a silvercan 540 come mostly from the advanced timing. Until someone shows me a cut apart Sport Tuned with 23 turns, I'm sticking with the 27 turn fact.

Yeah, that is exactly that i was told. The Sport Tuned Motors (nowdays) are 27T advanced Motors. If there were 23T Sport Tuned Motors in the past is not clear.

Even if Tamiya USA Claims that the Sport Tuned Motors are 23T, but thats wrong, they are 27T.

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On 5/23/2018 at 6:31 PM, whahooo said:

Are there any Forward an reverse Motors out there????

I scored me this Clod a couple of days ago the picture should suffice. :)

BdtZUpmMTreZg6VJL7drSyy3RLFNTkQfLpHcRrDt

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3 minutes ago, whahooo said:

I never had opened a Motor, so i do not knof how the brushes look like.

Just take one apart its fun.

bz39xBmN78RvbSiPIzEKtbpvUyyQw3ibRruBi-sx

mzyv5soXYJ_QTC0znLOfRvr9wxSjNAhVanI0D7CG

Nhm23ECzIP1Emse-vp6AlTXu1x9UZMSB68GmhmXb

UEyIWMqhpI1s6LfcqwoGTH5BhLnYRYBnJO8lZWi3

 

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