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Can A 540 Brushed Motors Handle 11.1v

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Has anyone out there ever run 540 brushed motors on a 3 cell lipo (11.1v) ? I'm building a double blaze with an mtroniks super e truck esc and twin checkpoint 19t money motors, obviously one motor has been retimed to run backwards at the same speed but would love to run them on a 3 cell lipo but can't find anything that's setup like that. I'm assuming it's not possible as no one else is but hoping someone will tell me otherwise.

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Has anyone out there ever run 540 brushed motors on a 3 cell lipo (11.1v) ? I'm building a double blaze with an mtroniks super e truck esc and twin checkpoint 19t money motors, obviously one motor has been retimed to run backwards at the same speed but would love to run them on a 3 cell lipo but can't find anything that's setup like that. I'm assuming it's not possible as no one else is but hoping someone will tell me otherwise.

I have tried brushed motors with 3s lipo and I found that 3s seems to destroy anything besides slow motors and higher voltage motors from what I have experienced. Anything less than 27 turns burns up within a few runs. A lot of crawling guys runs 3s.

Im sure the esc can handle the volts but does it have a lipo cutoff to safe gaurd the batteries.

Then theres gearing and heat to consider

Zak.

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Thanks for that i'll stick to the 2 cell for now and see how well it goes. The esc has a 12t twin motor limit and can run up to 14.4v, has no cutout but i always use an alarm anyway since one esc cutout failed on me and nearly mashed a battery.

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I wouldnt recommend 3s with a brushed motor either, I killed several Traxxas Titan motors in my Slash running 3s. Go brushless and 2s :lol:

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I once melted the soldered on leads right off a Trinity Sapphire motor, but that was 20+ volts in a little experiment of mine :unsure:

You know that you are melting parts if your original Traxxas Stampede hits 60MPH! The inside of those wheel bushings even looked like an egg after that run, lol

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I once melted the soldered on leads right off a Trinity Sapphire motor, but that was 20+ volts in a little experiment of mine :unsure:

You know that you are melting parts if your original Traxxas Stampede hits 60MPH! The inside of those wheel bushings even looked like an egg after that run, lol

Cool as..

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I've been running a silvercan on 3S in my M04 without any issues.. Motor gets a bit hot if I take the car offroad. Would help if I used a clip-on heatsink but it's a silvcan so who cares?

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I've been running a silvercan on 3S in my M04 without any issues.. Motor gets a bit hot if I take the car offroad. Would help if I used a clip-on heatsink but it's a silvcan so who cares?

A silvercan should be fine, i said anything below a 27 turn seems to burn up if you read my other posts

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I bought Two 3S with lower C rating -> 3s 4200 mah 35c for Twin RS 540 HS Silver Can. Cind of feel like i should have gone safe and bought 2S but to late now.

I did some googeling and Tamiya will ofc not recommend to use over 7 - 9 volt (Nimh standard), but if you look at identical motors in Drills it says min 6v and Max 12 volt, so with a Esc that can handle this it should be ok i think(can also start wiith setting full throtle to 90%). But as mentioned they are not expensive. I was reading the Torque/Sport tuned motors handels 12 volt even better, so if silver burn out i can try 2 Torque tuned, what you think?

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I think the best way of finding the safe limit of a silver can must surely be starting with 6s and working your way down??. 

No point trying 3s, finding it works, and wanting faster,,

Just save time and money by trying it on 6s first, then if that smokes, you know your limits. Lol

  • Haha 1

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The Esc i have can by easy handle it, i can see now:

Specs:
Type:HobbyWing QUICRUN 880 80/400A Dual 1/10-1/8th Scale Car/Buggy Brushed Speed Controller
Continuous/Peak Current: 80A/400A
Motor Type: Brushed 540/550/775 size motors
Application: 1/10-1/8th scale twin brushed motor vehicles
Input Power: 2~4S Lipoly/5~12 Nimh cells
Motor Limit: 12T with 2S or 6 Nimh cells, 18T with 3S or 9 Nimh cells, 24T with 4S or 12 Nimh cells
BEC Output: 6V@4A (switch mode)
Input Connectors: None
Output Connectors: 4mm female bullet connectors
Programming: Via separate port and LED program card (sold separately)
Dimensions: 45.9x34.7x26.5mm
Weight: 75g

The the 3S 35c 4200 mah battery i bought is Far under the Amp the Esc can handle (4.2 * 35 = 150 Amp). I think my setup will be very safe with these batteries.

@wolfdogstinkus - if i was a bith more tough in the face i would haha ... 

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There is one thing left though:

"Motor Limit: 12T with 2S or 6 Nimh cells, 18T with 3S or 9 Nimh cells, 24T with 4S or 12 Nimh cells"

I can see in the manual that Agrios RS 540 HS has 19T pinion, should i change to 18 before testing?, if yes how? (the *T pinion part is a field i have not done much research in, maybe this will change now). 

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I run a 9.6v NiCd with brushed motors in a few of my buggies, not very often but maybe a few times a year. The motors are still fine after 20 years. They are Reedy 19T quad mag specs and Tamiya 13t Dyna Run Super Tourings. They just need a comm clean and new brushes each year.  Admittedly not quite as pokey as a 3S but close.

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Depends on the the motor and gearing and vehicles weight and terrain etc.

Plenty of brushed motors are designed for 12v+ so obviously not an issue with those but they are slower to begin with.

Assuming you mean motors that are traditionally used with 2s or a 6s nicad/nimh, it depends on the strain the motor sees. Crawlers and other vehicles with low gearing will generally be safer for a motor running 3s. The Clod Buster for example, due to it's low gearing, can usually run fine with 27t motors on 3s. The fact there is two motors helps as well.

Try a 27T on 3s in a vehicle with more conventional gearing though such as a blackfoot xtreme and you may find things quickly go south, especially on a warm day running off road.

Lighter stuff running on road will probably fare better too because the loads on the motor will be lesser.

I generally avoid 3s for my usage unless it's already a higher turn motor that can handle it. Never had much luck running a 27t on 3s in anything but a crawler or clod.

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54 minutes ago, nowinaminute said:

Depends on the the motor and gearing and vehicles weight and terrain etc.

Plenty of brushed motors are designed for 12v+ so obviously not an issue with those but they are slower to begin with.

Assuming you mean motors that are traditionally used with 2s or a 6s nicad/nimh, it depends on the strain the motor sees. Crawlers and other vehicles with low gearing will generally be safer for a motor running 3s. The Clod Buster for example, due to it's low gearing, can usually run fine with 27t motors on 3s. The fact there is two motors helps as well.

Try a 27T on 3s in a vehicle with more conventional gearing though such as a blackfoot xtreme and you may find things quickly go south, especially on a warm day running off road.

Lighter stuff running on road will probably fare better too because the loads on the motor will be lesser.

I generally avoid 3s for my usage unless it's already a higher turn motor that can handle it. Never had much luck running a 27t on 3s in anything but a crawler or clod.

Thank you su much for your reply and help. I was thinking that to begin with, that since i have an Agrios b(TXT-2) with Twin motors it wouild be safer but i also though each motor would get 6-7 Volt not 11 volt each :). AS i wrote i have not got into the pinon and gear stuff so those higher numbers means more turns or what? so for example it would be safer with 18T on Lipo than 19T? (ESC manual says 18T is limit on 3S, Agrios has a 19T), it also sound like there is a very small difference in 18 & 19 T ?.

All in all it does not sound as much risk at all testing the 3S 4200 Mah 35C on Agrios with Twhin motor, if its the main problem is the motors its not a big deal either as i had plans to Change to Torque Tuned and the rumors i haver heard is that they are even better at handeling 12v batteries (as long as the C rate is not to high). 

Sorry for asking so much but im learning as i go :)

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Outside of the 21t motors for the E-Maxx and early E-Revo, any 3s vehicles have been brushless

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19 minutes ago, Fabia130vRS said:

I have seen how a silver can goes up in smoke on 3 s. and that was on a F104 chassis

The F1 RC is a complete other setup and than the gear and diff in txt-2 dual motor monster truck.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, simalarion said:

The F1 RC is a complete other setup and than the gear and diff in txt-2 dual motor monster truck.

 

 

do you think the motor need more power to drive a F1 chassis or the txt-2? 

I believe it should run easier on a F1 but it goes up in smoke. idk

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24 minutes ago, Fabia130vRS said:

do you think the motor need more power to drive a F1 chassis or the txt-2? 

I believe it should run easier on a F1 but it goes up in smoke. idk

What ive been reading is that that is the very point, it goes Very much easier (faster) so it will go up in smoke, like when the motor have no resistance at all, it will go up in smoke.

Thats what ive been reading this far...

 

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On my bullhead chassis, the standard silvercans run fine on 3S. But the gear ratio is offcourse in their favour. I also once smoked a 17t 540 on an 8.4v stickpack, so gear ratio vs tire diameter and car weight is the deciding factor, I do not know how to determine that.

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30 minutes ago, Ray_ve said:

On my bullhead chassis, the standard silvercans run fine on 3S. But the gear ratio is offcourse in their favour. I also once smoked a 17t 540 on an 8.4v stickpack, so gear ratio vs tire diameter and car weight is the deciding factor, I do not know how to determine that.

It would be pretty complicated to work out on an individual basis.

I've even had situations where the motor burned out simply going from nimh to 2s. Not a common occasion but I had a Tamiya Boomerang and a Nikko Thunder Falcon that both couldn't tolerate 2s lipo and the motors burned out. Tamiya had a 16t motor and the Nikko had the stock 27T Mabuchi. No doubt both vehicles ran fine on a 1600mah nicad as intended but when paired with a lipo, these motors suddenly had more current available to them or in other words, with old school batteries, the battery acted as a current limiter which kept temps in check not to mention the short run time from the 1600mah. With a lipo you get more current availability and much longer run time which equals more heat. The Nikko in particular was based on a buggy chassis but with a truck body on top, larger wheels and still had the same gearing as the lighter buggy. Using a nicad or nimh it was quite sluggish off the line due to the tall gearing. When I tried a 2s the difference was amazing, the wheels would spin easily off the line and acceleration was much stronger because the motor could draw a lot more current. But that motor cooked quicker than a pack of instant noodles!

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I have seen some videos on youtube that you can very easy burn out a RS 540 in 20-30 sec on max throtle with just the motor and no cooling sink/fan, so yes its quite clear to me now that you would need some resistance on the motor, at first i will set my ESC to 90% max throtle.

That said i also found out that these RS 540 motors are included in many drills, they have a standard max 12V but also much better cooling system. 

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21 minutes ago, nowinaminute said:

It would be pretty complicated to work out on an individual basis.

I've even had situations where the motor burned out simply going from nimh to 2s. Not a common occasion but I had a Tamiya Boomerang and a Nikko Thunder Falcon that both couldn't tolerate 2s lipo and the motors burned out. Tamiya had a 16t motor and the Nikko had the stock 27T Mabuchi. No doubt both vehicles ran fine on a 1600mah nicad as intended but when paired with a lipo, these motors suddenly had more current available to them or in other words, with old school batteries, the battery acted as a current limiter which kept temps in check not to mention the short run time from the 1600mah. With a lipo you get more current availability and much longer run time which equals more heat. The Nikko in particular was based on a buggy chassis but with a truck body on top, larger wheels and still had the same gearing as the lighter buggy. Using a nicad or nimh it was quite sluggish off the line due to the tall gearing. When I tried a 2s the difference was amazing, the wheels would spin easily off the line and acceleration was much stronger because the motor could draw a lot more current. But that motor cooked quicker than a pack of instant noodles!

This seems odd?

I have run nearly all my motors (from silver cans to high rpm race spec) on 8.4v NiCd's for decades and never had a failed motor. 8.4V NiCd is a damned sight more pokey than 2S, I should know as I run them side by side on our own track. 

2S is actually quite feeble compared to an 8.4v NiCd (NOT Nimh) and my 9.6v NiCd is much closer to 3S and yet still no issues. I don't recall a single burnt out motor? However what are you defining as burnt out? In my case I accept the brushes and comms will need more maintenance the higher the voltage so every 20-30 hrs of use I'll need new brushes on 8.4v where I may get 100+ hours use on 7.2v before new brushes needed. On 9.6v I may need to polish the comm and fit new brushes after as few as 5 hours use.

My Thundershot and Avante2001 have been running 8.4v with their Reedy 19T or 13 T Dyna Runs for over 20 years! They recently switched to 2S and got a significant drop in performance. I can assure you that the weight saving from LiPo is completely negated by the drop in performance from using good quality NiCd's. The ONLY gain from going to 2S was run times and that was mainly capacity increases, weight playing a minor part. the weight saving does come into it on racing but the difference is marginal IMHO. You have to be using a lap timing system measuring to hundredths of a second to notice the difference.

 

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18 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

8.4V NiCd is a damned sight more pokey than 2S

Not in terms of current, not even close. Which is going to range from irrelevant to a serious consideration depending on the amount of load a particular vehicle and gearing puts on a motor. An 8.4v has a higher nominal voltage so it can make a given motor spin faster in suitable conditions but that says nothing of current.

 

18 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

2S is actually quite feeble compared to an 8.4v

Again I disagree, not my experience with stuff like a Slash 4x4 doing heavy off roading. I don't think you'll find too many people who think a 2s is "feeble". Not many 8.4v nicad packs out there these days either.

 

18 minutes ago, mud4fun said:

However what are you defining as burnt out?

Charred black ceramic coating on the windings, internal cooling fan melted etc. Not sure why you're so worked up either way. I already said it wasn't a common thing.

s3ZrMRB.jpg

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