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Old Falcon Lad

Restorations For The Shelf - How Far?

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Mornin all

If you are restoring an old car, with no real intention of running it (i.e. a shelfer), do people tend to fit vintage electrics or not? I guess if the intention is to build the kit as Mr T intended, you kinda need the receiver, 2nd servo etc. But if it's not going to run...?

Also, if you do fit the electrics should they be a) period and B) working?

P

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Guest FalconFirst

I would say many people would opt to fit a steering servo at the very least to keep the front wheels parallel and holding linkages fixed in place etc. I like to fit period gear so that it is complete, many of the early speed controllers need a servo in place etc for fixing them to the chassis. The one thing I don't worry so much is xtals except where a receiver is right into the chassis like a hotshot for example. I actually managed to recoup a fair bit of money by offloading many of my xtals sets. Not too concerned as my cars are permanent shelfers and if necessary I could always pop xtals in later on...

James B)

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for me, at most I would just put in the steering servo to keep the front wheel in place else I would not put electronic in especially if I have no intention of running it. However, if it did came with electronics than I would put them back in.

In the end is really up to each individual how you want the shelfer to be. The correct period electronic with the Shelfer would give it a complete package...

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If it can't be seen (hidden inside radiobox), it matters naught imho. A dead or dummy gutted servo(case) can hold your linkages.

Bigger concern would be batteries though, most buggies do look more complete with a "proper/period/genuine" battery onboard.

But then that causes concern for the extra weight sitting on the tyres.

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P, I have built several early pan cars. I always build my shelfers for display only, but they are absolutely complete, correct, and ready to run. Installing vintage radio gear is a tricky subject. Technically, all the old stuff is illegal now for surface operation, but really is correct for a proper display. A judgement call for the builder........

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Many of my shelfers are touring cars. I find it easier to appreciated the chassis without electronics installed. I do install a motor to add some weight to the cars and sometimes a servo to hold the front wheels.

My dilemma is why should I install working lights on a shelf queen? I won't be displaying it in the dark so I will rarely if ever use them.

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I've seen alot of shelfers without any thing inside. They just want the out side lookin' good.

Me want vintage inside as intended...

Badboy

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My dilemma is why should I install working lights on a shelf queen? I won't be displaying it in the dark so I will rarely if ever use them.

heck yes!

plug them into a RX pack & light them all up on the shelf :)

on TopGear all the studio display cars all have lights on :lol:

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My philosophy is it should be ready to run, but there are different levels of RTRness.

When I got back into RC I standardized on the Futaba 3PM 2.4GHz and was putting R603FF receivers and HS/MG servos into everything, including the vintage buggies. After a while I realized that I was putting a lot of money into things I almost never ran. At the same time I picked up a pretty good collection of 27MHz radios from various purchases, so I started installing them into the vintage collection and replaced the servos with standard ones (usually Futaba S3004.)

My latest discovery though is a cheap 2.4GHz system from nitrorcx, and servos from Hong Kong. For under $20 per car/buggy (this includes a receiver and 2 servos, but is after the initial $30 for the transmitter and first receiver) I can have the thing ready to run and don't have to mess with crystals anymore. Admittedly this is not a top of the line system, but if you compare it to something like a Futaba Attack from back in the day, it's an upgrade from what the the original equipment was, and is about par with the 27MHz Associated XP2 and Traxxas systems I was using. There are no model presets on the radio so you have to adjust the trims but that's what we had to do back in the "dark ages". The setup works great for what I want, the ability to run my older stuff every now and then, and, IMHO, means that it's affordable to keep even the shelf queens RTR.

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Technically, all the old stuff is illegal now for surface operation

Where did you hear that? Are you saying that 75Mhz is now illegal for RC surface use in USA? What about 27MHz?

I have heard nothing about 27MHz or 40MHz (Euro Surface frequency) becomming illegal in UK where I am (England). Unless someone knows different and wants to fill me in?! Am I missing something here?

I do know that new Transmitters on 40MHz are only allowed to be 100mW ERP output RF power as opposed to the 500mW (!) that my old radios use. But of course the old radios are still allowed to be used, at least I thought?! :lol:

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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Where did you hear that? Are you saying that 75Mhz is now illegal for RC surface use in USA? What about 27MHz?

I have heard nothing about 27MHz or 40MHz (Euro Surface frequency) becomming illegal in UK where I am (England). Unless someone knows different and wants to fill me in?! Am I missing something here?

I do know that new Transmitters on 40MHz are only allowed to be 100mW ERP output RF power as opposed to the 500mW (!) that my old radios use. But of course the old radios are still allowed to be used, at least I thought?! :P

Cheers,

Alistair G.

In the US (and I believe in Canada) in 1991, the FCC mandated that we go from "wide" to "narrow" band in the 72 and 75MHz frequencies (27MHz was not changed.) Technically you cannot legally use the old wide band radio for surface or air anymore unless you had it converted, and got the gold sticker on the back.

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Where did you hear that? Are you saying that 75Mhz is now illegal for RC surface use in USA? What about 27MHz?

I have heard nothing about 27MHz or 40MHz (Euro Surface frequency) becomming illegal in UK where I am (England). Unless someone knows different and wants to fill me in?! Am I missing something here?

I do know that new Transmitters on 40MHz are only allowed to be 100mW ERP output RF power as opposed to the 500mW (!) that my old radios use. But of course the old radios are still allowed to be used, at least I thought?! :P

Cheers,

Alistair G.

Sorry Alistair, I was commenting on the 1991 FCC rule changes here in the US of Obama. We cannot legally use the vintage (stock) stuff anymore. I have some installed in shelfers that I do not run, but all the gear still functions.

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In the US (and I believe in Canada) in 1991, the FCC mandated that we go from "wide" to "narrow" band in the 72 and 75MHz frequencies (27MHz was not changed.) Technically you cannot legally use the old wide band radio for surface or air anymore unless you had it converted, and got the gold sticker on the back.

Oh I think I know what you are talking about now, the old radios on 27MHz had 50KHz spacing originally allocated to them and some of the oldest radios probably were using a 50KHz RF window and so would interfere with more modern radios that happened to be using "Splits" which are at a 25KHz channel spacing, like Grey / Brown (26.975MHz), when Brown is 26.995MHz, the "Solid color" channels were originally on a 50KHz spacing, i.e. Brown, then Red 27.045, Orange 27.095, Yellow 27.145, Green 27.195, Blue 27.245 or 27.255 (the only one shared with CB :P ) ;-

http://ukrcc.org/27mhz.html

Unfortunately the Splits are shared with CB users! ;-

http://www.w2aee.columbia.edu/fcc-bandplan.html

I just checked my ACOMS MK1 and it is well within the 20KHz spacing recommendation as far as I can tell from the specifications ;-

http://www.retromodelisme.com/scan_pages/1...oms-page-4.html

http://www.retromodelisme.com/manuel_page/...stem-acoms.html

...and this was the radio set that was advertised with the Rough Rider back in 1979 by RIKO (UK importer) in their adverts and is the earliest radio that I use, but I will be watching out for the spec's in the instruction manuals for older radios if I ever acquire them.

I know next to nothing about 75 and 72MHz radios since I can never use that frequency since I am in UK LOL. A similar thing happened with those too though I imagine.

So as long as the radio equipment that you use is ACOMS MK1 onwards, or make sure that your radio can keep to a 20KHz selectivity (+/-10KHz at -6dB at worst) then it should be within the current rules. At least for 27MHz. Don't know about 72 or 75MHz.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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Sorry Alistair, I was commenting on the 1991 FCC rule changes here in the US of Obama. We cannot legally use the vintage (stock) stuff anymore. I have some installed in shelfers that I do not run, but all the gear still functions.

Very interesting. Can you give me a web link to a page intended for RC users of USA showing the details? Would like to see.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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There is some info. about this here ;-

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8627537/...e_1/key_/tm.htm

From what I read in the last hour, 72MHz is still perfectly legal for use in USA (as presumably is 75MHz).

As long as "narrow" band equipment is being used. Whatever that is (I'll do some more digging).

Cheers,

ARG

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Ahh I found what you are talking about now, it is explained on Futaba's web page here ;-

http://www.futaba-rc.com/faq/service-faq.html#q41

The FCC requirements for the width of the signal output by RC radio equipment on 72 and 75 MHz was narrowed effective 3/1/91. MOST radios made before 1991 did not meet these new standards. MOST radios that did not meet the new standards could be 'narrowed' by authorized service centers from 3/1/91 to 3/1/98, thus making them legal to use. Canadian standards were changed effective 6/1/02 to comply with the same narrowband standards as the US.

So you are right to say that some old radios that don't meet the standard are now not legal for use in USA.

Remember (for those newbies reading) that 72MHz is FOR AIRCRAFT USE ONLY and it is illegal and immoral to use 72MHz for RC model cars.

Thank goodness 27MHz and 40MHz is completely unaffected by all of this in UK LOL.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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I like to fit my vintages with servos and thats it. For sure a steering servo to keep wheels from flopping around. Radio gear being period correct really doesn't matter to me. In fact i dont even put oil in my shocks if its just sitting on my shelf. Nor do I use locktite or lube any gears. But I will not build a model without installing bearings. Even if no one else can see them. I still know there in there. Just incase I ever want to run it. Or the next owner wants to run them.

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