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Is it me or do the new cars lack soul? Back in the day when I was a kid I no kidding lusted after the Avante, Egress, Astute, and Dyna Storm. Sure they werent the best racers out there, but it was more than that. The new care are no doubt better, their race victories are of testament, but they feel soul less, like a Honda Civic. They feel more utilitarian than fun. Is it becasue we are older now? I use to stare at picture of the Dyna Storm. badword my GF catches me starring at my Avante and Dyna to this day. Whats missing??????

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I think what's missing is scale looks.

The older cars looked more like scaled down baja and dune buggies of the 70s. In the case of the Avante, it looked like a futuristic version of the same thing, and therefore had that wow factor. Modern buggies, especially the race rep variety have lost that in deference to a body shell that is really nothing more than a dust cover for the electrics, and therefore look like nothing more than a high powered roller skate. For me, that doesn't have the same kind of "pull" or work the imagination anywhere near as much.

I think this is partly why the re-re's are proving so popular. Sure there's the nostalgia factor, but also, they provide a recognisable "hook" to get people in to RC. I also think that some of the other manufacturers have realised this, and it's why the short course RC trucks are proving so popular as well. It's something that people can relate to, rather than just a little whizzy box on wheels.

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i think there are still some newer cars that have a soul or legacy.

associated, kyosho, schumacher are doing what they have always done, building awesome cars designed by their factory racers.

tamiya is holding their own with their vintage re-re's and a top notch race division.

the newer cars that have no soul to me are the plethora of cheap rtr's. redcat/xtm/hsp/ even traxxas. none of them have done anything new or exciting, they just keep recycling the same cars.

tamiya recylces as well but for the most part thats to offer us a wide variety of excellent body shells on proven chassis.

i guess what i'm trying to say is that when i build a kyosho/tamiya/associated/schumacher i get the same "connection" that i had with the older cars while i'm building newer cars. i feel the cars are mine, my creation, my "baby".

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I'm with Matt on this one. Scale looks and of course just the way they looked. I still think a Dyna Storm is one of the ultimate buggies, looks wise. Low and sleak. Tamiya lost the plot somewhere along the line with their buggies. Just look at the Durga, that shell is just not everybody's cup of tea. Compare that to a Wild One, Fox, Roughie, those where brilliant. The fresh crop of buggies are falling way short when it comes to visual appeal.

They do hold their own in competition stakes but they do not get the blood pumping when you look at them as it does when you sit and stare at your Avante. ;)

Henk ;)

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some of the new buggies look nice!

plasma edge:

pe.jpg

rising storm

rs.jpg

nitro force (painted in plasma edge colours! did it at the same time as the PE)

ndf1%20(1).jpg

ndf1%20(2).jpg

body designs have changed over the years though. also the way the rear wing is mounted has changed too - on the fox it just looks daft. but - it's a piece of history, right or wrong.

i think perhaps if the durga body had been used in the "first 50", it would be hailed as iconic before you could say rose tinted glasses.

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Surely you must lust after the TRF511, look at all that carbon. I much prefer it to the Avante, etc:

img27923_25052010171520_1.jpg

img13377_08042009213209_1.jpg

img4492_10042010000138_1.jpg

img27923_25052010171520_4.jpg

;)

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I think all of those look like plastic covered roller skates, personally 30cms, but I guess that's just personal taste.

I have a plasma edge, and more or less the first thing I did with it was ditched the body shell.

Kaiser, I can see where you're coming from with the RTRs, and I think this in some way links to the thread about "box art or not" - by building it from a kit, and therefore putting a little bit of yourself into the build, you make it "yours" and in some ways that's what gives it the soul we're talking about. The only thing I'll say though, is twofold: firstly the original cars had that magic factor even in box art livery before any personal touch was added, and secondly, there are a whole load of different parts for lots of the Traxxas cars in particular to make them your own and your baby. Heck, there's even a company that will sell you a Slash chassis, and you then decide what other bits you want them to fit for you (or not!) to customise it to your own specifications.

The chassis start at US$99, and how much extra stuff you have is entirely up to you. Sure it's not the same as assembling it all yourself, but I think it's a great basis for making an RTR car your own!

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Surely you must lust after the TRF511, look at all that carbon. I much prefer it to the Avante, etc:

img27923_25052010171520_1.jpg

img13377_08042009213209_1.jpg

img4492_10042010000138_1.jpg

img27923_25052010171520_4.jpg

;)

One word:

YUCK!

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Is it me or do the new cars lack soul? Back in the day when I was a kid I no kidding lusted after the Avante, Egress, Astute, and Dyna Storm. Sure they werent the best racers out there, but it was more than that. The new care are no doubt better, their race victories are of testament, but they feel soul less, like a Honda Civic. They feel more utilitarian than fun. Is it becasue we are older now? I use to stare at picture of the Dyna Storm. badword my GF catches me starring at my Avante and Dyna to this day. Whats missing??????

Couldn't disagree with you more on the bolded point... Civic's (pre-EP3) are engineering masterpieces and have a soul like few other mass market cars...

Anyway, I think the feeling of "soul" is as much to do with the learning curve that the hobby's designers were going through during the 80s. So many revolutionary ideas, and so many blind alleys!

The RC cars of today are far superior to those of two decades ago by pretty much any measure. But they are also very homogenous in their designs, so it is rare that something stands out as having a "soul" of its own. Tamiya do things differently more often than most, and the presentation of the kits themselves is always a delight - they are almost alone in making "models suitable for radio control".

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The RC cars of today are far superior to those of two decades ago by pretty much any measure. But they are also very homogenous in their designs, so it is rare that something stands out as having a "soul" of its own. Tamiya do things differently more often than most, and the presentation of the kits themselves is always a delight - they are almost alone in making "models suitable for radio control".

Any measure, except aesthetics. Bland and samey. Sure they might excel technically, but unless you're in for competition, does that really matter?

Stick a Sand Scorcher or a Wildone next to a TRF or Durga, and I'll be taking the classics thank you very much ;)

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i think i just like them all.

which is great as it makes my range of desirable cars much much bigger, than if i handcuffed myself to a particular era or style.

the newer tamiya f1 cars are pretty good for scale and realism. i don't think tamiya have "lost their way."

i do get the point though, about the odd / samey looking buggies. i think that is where buggy evolution has, rightly or wrongly, taken us.

the main thing the new buggies lack is a driver figure. although the dyna storm and top force didn't have one either, and they look really nice!

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Years ago RC models were an experience. You first learned about rc cars, from magazines or Radio Control Guide Books. Then you chose the components you wanted and purchased them. After that you get to assemble your vehicle. The final step is actually driving and enjoying your model. That was the experience manufacturers were selling us. We started putting more emphasis on how well the end product performed and began to sacrifice parts of the experience. Modern cars will never look as cool as a Super Champ or a Frog but they will out perform those cars every time. We can appreciate blister packaging now but back when they stopped we didn't mind because we were getting high tech 4wd touring cars. Driver figures became useless extra weight so they were discarded and with them the driver names.

I believe in time manufacturers will start making the rc experience fun again. The quality has improved to the point where even the lowest end hobby grade vehicles are decent. They are going to have to do something to distinguish their cars from the competition. I see the new Holiday Buggy as an attempt at this. Hopefully there will be more.

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One word:

YUCK!

So you'd prefer these vintage buggy's then (all from the first 100) than a TRF511?

img4867_18072009231219_1.jpg

img5927_27112008214734_1.jpg

img18528_08042007180000_1.jpg

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My opinion is that most of the new cars today do not break any new ground. You know the deal, revamped/rehashed/reissued chassis, different wheels and tires, and a new floppy body. The only thing missing is the soul. Kind of like Frankenstein. Re-animated, but something important got lost in the process. Same thing happened in NASCAR racing here in the States. Everyone uses the same chassis, tires, ect, and the only differences in the teams is the decals on the body. Sound familiar? BORING!

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So you'd prefer these vintage buggy's then (all from the first 100) than a TRF511?

You've forgotten to add pictures of the Sonic Fighter and Striker.

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No Soul!!!!!!! Roller Skate Buggies!!!!!! TOTALLY AGREE

But, we get to choose what we buy... I admit the choses of scale models has declined massively, thank the lord for the re-re's...

If you want to race or be the fastest, they there is a market you....

I would love to see Tamiya bringing out more of thier amazing boxarts for loads of up to date desert racers, touring cars, trucks etc etc etc and pairing up with TV shows... Imagine a 3 speed of the TOP GEAR POLAR EXPEDITION TRUCK massive sales,

biggest let down for me are all stupid roller skates and rtr's, you need to build it to really appreciate. But because we live in a 'I WANT IT NOW SOCIETY' they sell well.

hopefully things will improve

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the biggest ray of hope the last 2 years has come from the rock crawling subculture there has been that spark of interesting designs coming from there but the leaders in that field have not been large manufactures its been the home grown companies pushing the envelope, with the larger companies just milking a cash cow towing behind.

While the designs may be interesting, it is my opinion that crawlers have quickly become very unrealistic. Slim low bodies over huge tires pushed to the extreme corners of the vehicle and then linked to a "chassis" via rods is not exciting or at all realistic. The race to become the most competitive crawler has put limitations on realism and scale looks for performance. The most extreme competitive crawlers resemble nothing a human being could drive IMHO. They sure are a lot of fun though!

Mark

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Its all simply about perspective. You were young, looking into a shop window at an exotic and expensive toy. No different to a kid looking into a window at a tamiya kit now.

It's naive to suggest that a commercially manufactured product is built with anything like soul. Even the Porsche was an excersise to increase revenue from the modelkit.

Over the 30 or so years of rc I still get excited about new kits. It's easier for me to get them than when I was a boy, but they get better and better.

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Is it me or do the new cars lack soul?

yup i agree.

the new tamiya buggies (while suffering from some bad design ideas, that new 201 needs a redesign)

Erm what issues? (other than a very small batch of cars having an idiler gear made out of a brittle plastic) You do know it's won the euros? Tamiyas most successful 2wd car ever and a much better car than the astute etc

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Isn´t this what´s happening with 1:1 cars as well? To me, cars after the 90's don't even nearly make it to the ones before that.

Anyway, back to the RC Cars... I agree with you that many don't look as good... They still look good though. However, I do admit that some cars do feel soulless - for instance my Traxxas E-Revo 1/16 - it's so tough... but feels so boring... It's like a nice looking suit that looks good but doesn't feel right when you put it on... Or something like that anyway ;)

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Agree.

As has been said many times before, it's about shape. All the new cars and buggies look very similar and are not "pretty".

Why did my mini get more appreciation with the splitty shell than the other Swifts etc on track?

splitty08-1.jpg

Why is this more soul pleasing than ANY of the modern buggies pictured in this thread so far?

100_6511.jpg

Because they have distinctive shape and form, which gives them soul. ;) ;) :)

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Plus they are both pretty average performers, and it's always inspiring to see little guys fighting bigger, better guys/models. :););)

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... long gone are the days of weird design ideas. 4ws, strange upper deck designs, trailing arm suspensions, realistic detail, etc ...

... the reason is basically car chassis design isn't going to get much better other then making it lighter to a limit what else is there. you already have infinite adjustment of camber and toe, and suspension angle and while a little limited on caster there still is lots of adjustment there ...

It is not that the newer cars have no soul but rather the older cars came out at a time when car/buggy designs were still in its infancy (and not having that many competing manufacturers) and so with Tamiya coming out with different chassis design, they are in fact leading the field. And what we remember as a kid somehow ingrains itself in our memory and we relate to it at a special level and feel that it is unique. When I was a kid in the 70s, it is only Tamiya coming out with all these different kits and design.

After decades of trial and error, the designs has reached an advance level, production cost being the inhibiting factor now. A lot more input will be required just to gain the small extra improvement in chassis design. There are also other manufacturers in the market and they will adopt almost the same design as it is tried and trusted. With more choice out there (other manufacturers) having almost the same shape, it gives an impression that the kit is no longer unique.

Tamiya could spend a lot of money to come up with a different chassis design but may not end being a better handling compared to a DB-01. Then we might start complaining about Tamiya being silly and wasting their time and that they should just re-release the monster beetle or super champ ... Are we searching for a Buggy Champ shell on a TRF511/TRF201???

The TRF range is a racing model (DB-01 being an affordable non carbon chassis) and so their design will not vary much now but will only change ever so slightly as they receive input from their factory drivers. They do have a soul, but it is no longer unique to Tamiya. Losi, Schumachers, Hudys, Associates and etc also have the almost similar 'soul' ...

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... Are we searching for a Buggy Champ shell on a TRF511/TRF201???

Achem,... I think you mean a Dyna Storm shell on a 201 ;);)

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