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Singleseven

Vintage Vs. Re-re Wheels & Tyres For Hornet

By Singleseven, in Vintage Tamiya Discussion

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Singleseven    70

Singleseven
Posted

Hi Everyone, I hope you are all keeping well...

Is it possible to tell the difference between vintage and re-re wheels / tyres for the Hornet, Frog and Grasshopper? My gut feeling is no but I don't have wheels or tyres to compare.

I am restoring a Hornet and since I have gone to the trouble of buying a NIB bodyset I have the urge to go vintage ...just not sure if it's worth the money and hassle ;) .

Thanks,

John.

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tamman77    1

tamman77
Posted

you can tell the differance if you compare vintage v re-re, sprues, coating on the tyres etc - however unless your completely stubborn don't bother!! Differances are really tiny and no-one else would know, their the only re-re parts i would put on a vintage build, so far i've been really lucky and found some vintages or vintage hop up equivalants, these have all been privately sourced though folks i can trust and each time i have verified them to be vintage, one set was from a vintage nib ss break up so that still counts for me.

unless you have possibly years to wait for some originals to come up (no joke, i have many projects that the parts hunt has hit over three years now) and are inclined to pay the premium then forget it and get some re-re's, there just not out there.

great that you want to keep it true and theres no excuse for the rest of the parts! ;)

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Champ85    489

Champ85
Posted

The re-re Hornet/Frog/Grasshopper/Scorcher/Buggy Champ wheels are whiter than the originals. I think Tamiya is using a slightly different plastic now. The vintage wheels, even when new, were never such a "day-glow white" like the new ones. The new wheels are also more shiny - the surface of the plastic is smoother than the originals. The originals had a more dull reflection to them and were a "less bright white".

As for the tires, I cannot tell a difference, front or rear. The rubber smells the same, the tires look the same, and feel the same as the vintage ones. Tamman77 mentions the coating, but I haven't noticed that yet.

I know there were discussions about original Super Champ rear tires (same design as the Hornet/Frog) not having a hole punched in them. I am positive that my Super Champ's rear tires had a hole, and I built the kit myself so I know all parts were original, but my SC was bought in probably the middle of 1984 near the end of the production run. Not sure if the original Hornet/Frog rear tires all had a hole or not.

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Yonez    178

Yonez
Posted

My NIB Super Champ has holes in the rear tires.

Still in blister pack, one of the holes points straight up.

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Singleseven    70

Singleseven
Posted

Hey guys, thanks for your messages. It's good to have this info. With all the re-re parts out there you really have to know what to look for.

All things considered I think I'll go with re-re's and maybe keep my eyes open for vintage parts as and when they appear.

Thanks again. :(

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zulu69    1

zulu69
Posted

Hi..

There is a difference in the front tires.The old ones are smaller in diameter having a lower side wall.The new ones have a higher side wall and as a result are a little bigger in diameter.

If you put them side by side you can see the difference at once....

I have checked it with all my vintage tires from SS and SC kits also with Frog kits and NIP wheel&tire sets and they are all smaller than the re-re ones.So this is a fact. :-)

I think Tamiya did that in order to improve the steering responce ...

Only a :angry: trained eye can see the difference anyway so go for the re-re's.......

Cheers

Thanos

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Champ85    489

Champ85
Posted
Hi..

There is a difference in the front tires.The old ones are smaller in diameter having a lower side wall.The new ones have a higher side wall and as a result are a little bigger in diameter.

If you put them side by side you can see the difference at once....

I have checked it with all my vintage tires from SS and SC kits also with Frog kits and NIP wheel&tire sets and they are all smaller than the re-re ones.So this is a fact. :-)

I think Tamiya did that in order to improve the steering responce ...

Only a :angry: trained eye can see the difference anyway so go for the re-re's.......

Cheers

Thanos

Good eye! I never noticed that before. I just checked some spare re-re fronts from a BC and some vintage ones and sure enough, the new front tires are ~2mm taller than the old ones.

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Hibernaculum    920

Hibernaculum
Posted
As for the tires, I cannot tell a difference, front or rear. The rubber smells the same, the tires look the same, and feel the same as the vintage ones. Tamman77 mentions the coating, but I haven't noticed that yet.

I agree. I cannot see any difference either. The Super Champ tyres (and Hotshot tyres) are some of the very few re-release parts that are so identical to originals, I don't mind using them as though they are true vintage parts - merely a later production run.

And let's also not forget that the original Hornet was in production until 1992, and it's tyres were readily available until about 1994. It is only about 10 years from that point until the time it was re-released.

I know there were discussions about original Super Champ rear tires (same design as the Hornet/Frog) not having a hole punched in them. I am positive that my Super Champ's rear tires had a hole, and I built the kit myself so I know all parts were original, but my SC was bought in probably the middle of 1984 near the end of the production run. Not sure if the original Hornet/Frog rear tires all had a hole or not.

Some old tyres don't have the hole. I have an old, worn pair of tyres that came from a Super Champ kit, and they definitely don't have the hole. It's weird because they hold the air inside a bit more (like real tyres) and seem more bouncy on the car.

However, these non-hole tyres are very rare. The vast majority of tyres (both vintage and re-release) do have the hole, and I have many vintage NIB tyre sets and kits (and they all seem to have the hole). So clearly, Tamiya thought the hole version was vastly preferable.

cheers,

H.

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Champ85    489

Champ85
Posted

Hi H.

I bet what happened a long time ago is: The original tires without the hole took a good hard bump while driving and forced the air out, and then the tire wouldn't inflate so it went all wonky and dented, which didn't drive well at all. The driver got all upset and complained to Tamiya that the tires don't "hold air". So Tamiya decided to put a hole right in the middle so air could enter quickly (and exit quickly). Trouble is, the hole is large enough to suck sand and dirt inside which then never comes back out.

I bet the tires without the hole are pretty cool since they "give" less than the tires with the hole. Like you said, more "bouncy". I see that on some modern tires that have no holes mounted on a rim with no holes. If the tire sits in the bead tightly enough, it holds air pretty well. But if the air finally escapes, it takes forever for the tire to suck the air back in.

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ShayD    0

ShayD
Posted
Hi H.

I bet what happened a long time ago is: The original tires without the hole took a good hard bump while driving and forced the air out, and then the tire wouldn't inflate so it went all wonky and dented, which didn't drive well at all. The driver got all upset and complained to Tamiya that the tires don't "hold air". So Tamiya decided to put a hole right in the middle so air could enter quickly (and exit quickly). Trouble is, the hole is large enough to suck sand and dirt inside which then never comes back out.

I bet the tires without the hole are pretty cool since they "give" less than the tires with the hole. Like you said, more "bouncy". I see that on some modern tires that have no holes mounted on a rim with no holes. If the tire sits in the bead tightly enough, it holds air pretty well. But if the air finally escapes, it takes forever for the tire to suck the air back in.

I seem to remember the original release SRB manuals specifying to use silicon to make the tyres/wheels air tight ... it made the business of fitting tyres potentially very messy!

Recently I was painting up a set of Super-Champ wheels and I came across a pair of rear tyres that were substantially more robust than the Super Grippers around these days. You could pinch the thickness of the tyre tread and feel quite a thickness of rubber there. They also have no hole. I've recently bought a Grasshopper with vintage Super-Champ rears and these are similarly robust.

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Ernie^s BadAss Airplane Co    19

Ernie^s BadAss Airplane Co
Posted

Searched all over the internet, and have some additional information to share between the differences between Original Vintage Tires and the ReRe Re-Releases.  Indeed, the original front Sand Scorcher tires are slightly smaller in height, they are HEAVIER and VERY SOFT compared to the current tires.  I will post some pictures with my findings. 

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Ernie^s BadAss Airplane Co    19

Ernie^s BadAss Airplane Co
Posted

Forgot to mention, Original Vintage tire shorter, approx 72mm.

But this is my easiest way to check for the difference, pushing on the top of the tire, the Re-Re are stiff, but the Original Vintage are SOFT.  Very Soft.  Shown here, I am pushing on the two tires with equal pressure.......  I noticed this main difference when I squeezed the tire on my 80's Grasshopper, and the tire on my Re-Re Frog....  The best way I can describe it.....the soft tire, comparable to a foam steering wheel grip on a Futaba Transmitter, compared to a Rubber Grip.

As far as the Wheels are concerned, people have already described the New wheels as "Bright White".  (Too bad I no longer have all my old dinged up wheels).  If the set are still new on the trees, the old/vintage wheels say "1/10 RC VW BUGGY", and are off white/vintage white color.  If you have the screw package, the 2mm nuts are brass.  (ReRe are Silver)

I post some finding on the Rear Spiked tires.

DSC06126.JPG

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beefmuffin    1153

beefmuffin
Posted

Original Hornet (and Hotshot, Grasshopper 2, and any other white wheels) are definitely visibly different in color to the re-release ones.  The difference is striking and you don't need them to be side by side to notice.  The originals are more of a bone-white while the re-releases are a very bright white color.  As far as I'm concerned, don't put re-release wheels on a vintage buggy unless it's purely a runner and you don't care that it's vintage.  For example, if I ever bought a Hornet advertised as 'vintage' and it had re-release wheels on it I'd consider it to be a dishonest listing and feel ripped off.  Pretty much all vintage Tamiya wheels differ in some respect to the re-release versions, and in many cases you can tell them apart by looking for "Made in Japan" somewhere on the inside surface of the wheels, which is only there on vintage parts; alternately if there is a material code (eg "ABS" or "PS" etc), a part number, or a copyright date, those are all signs that the wheel is not vintage.

I made the mistake of using re-release wheels in a couple of my early restoration projects and later had to scrupulously replace them all with vintage.  It was a waste of time and money not to just wait to get vintage parts from the start.  At least if you care about what is vintage vs what is not.

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Hibernaculum    920

Hibernaculum
Posted
3 minutes ago, Hibernaculum said:

@Ernie^s BadAss Airplane Co

Just wanted to mention - great job updating the wheels and tyres info @Ernie^s BadAss Airplane Co

I had never noticed the weight difference before. And what's more, it's quite a large difference. I'd like to log this information on my website, with a mention of your name as the source. Would that be ok?

 

On 12/15/2019 at 6:29 AM, Ernie^s BadAss Airplane Co said:

Vintage Original Tire (or Tyre is you are on the other part of the world)  35.3 grams  (Noticeable difference in weight!)

DSC06118.JPG

 

On 12/15/2019 at 6:27 AM, Ernie^s BadAss Airplane Co said:

Re Release Tire, weighs 27.6 grams

DSC06117.JPG

 

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