Tamiya In Australia

[Hibernaculum]

Sometime in 2008, I decided to write directly to Tamiya to pass on some feedback I had heard from a number of hobby shops I visit. The feedback I had heard from many shop owners was this: "Tamiya is not a brand we stock anymore, due to problems we have had with the sole Tamiya importer in Australia, "Toy Traders"."

I wrote to Tamiya because I was a little concerned. Once upon a time, every hobby shop in Australia stocked Tamiya. And if they didn't, they were crazy. But these days it's quite common for hobby shops not to stock many, if any, Tamiya products. In fact, it's almost normal now to have zero Tamiya. Other brands have taken a LOT of market share. And a whole generation of kids who enjoy hobbies, is now growing up barely having heard of Tamiya. Amazing, non? I thought Tamiya were still the #1 modelling brand in the world?

When I wrote to Tamiya.com though, only one thing happened - they didn't reply, they just instantly forwarded my letter directly to someone at Toy Traders. LOL.

Toy Traders' manager then wrote me an angry reply, to say my claims were baseless and damaging and yada yada yada. I proceeded to explain to him that I was just a fan of the brand, who was sad to see it's decline in Australia. He demanded I name the names of hobby stores that had made complaints against Toy Traders, and I said I wasn't going to do that (obviously). And I won't do it now either.

His view was that if any hobby shop owner had a complaint, they should make it directly to Toy Traders.

Well. Naturally, hobby shop owners only have a mild reason to bother to do that. In many cases, they'll just stop buying Tamiya stock and stock other stuff instead. They don't have much specific loyalty to Tamiya. Ultimately they only have loyalty to "making a profit". And if CEN or some other company can serve them better, then they'll stock CEN instead of Tamiya. Sorry Mr Toy Traders, but it really isn't the responsibility of hobby shops to care whether Tamiya is a great brand with great supply and service, it's YOUR responsibility.

Yesterday I visited a hobby shop that has been around for a long time (but which I hadn't visited for a long time). The owner said he no longer bothered to stock Tamiya because he was "sick of keeping 4 full pages of parts backorders" that were not being fulfilled in a reasonable time. Nowadays, he's abandoned Tamiya and just stocks the other common brands.

I don't really care anymore. I've heard similar stories from about a dozen hobby shops. I've supported Tamiya over the years, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. I've taken the time to contact Tamiya to warn them about the problem. And they just bumped me off to Toy Traders, their trusted pals in Australia, to deal with my weird Australian complaint. It was all a bit like complaining to the FBI about the incompetence of a local police officer, only to have the FBI refer it straight to the local police officer himself, who then came around to your house to tell you to STFU.

There seems to be no way to get the message to Tamiya: Your brand is dying in Australia. It's got something like 25% the brand visibility that it had in the 1980s, and I think that number is declining. Does anyone care? It's got nothing to do with being undercut on price by the chinese (Tamiya is still very cheap online). It's got nothing to do with poor quality (Tamiya is still great quality). It's just a slow, steady decline that I don't really understand.

There used to be a time when not only every hobby shop, but even department stores and electronics stores and even supermarkets would sell Tamiya kits. To go from that level of ubiquity, to today's pathetic level of market share (1 in 4 hobby shops? or less?), is nothing short of a spectacular brand collapse.

H.

[sirandy]

Mate,

Seems like a common occurence worldwide, but I believe the single most important reason for the decline is......wait for it.....'the Internet'. In the days of yore (read the 80's) the business model of a vendor, into distributor/wholesaler, into retail was the most efficient way to get bulk product to the people, and brick and mortar shops were the single biggest outlet.

All changed now.....in your case, one would think that Toy Traders would be feeling the pinch of losing out on the hobby business, but you will find that they are distributing things that are not even toy related, and making more money on it.......if it weren't that way, you would see them going out of business. Tamiya doesnt care either when they have the likes of RCmart et al doing TWENTY times the Toy Traders muppets ever did....

I have to admit, I miss the brick and mortar shops, but here in Dubai they are a badword of a lot worse than the toy traders setup, and these guys openly admit they will never sponsor any events, or the opening of a track. In fact I got so tired of shifting aside the 'Hello Kitty' pencil caseswhile looking for RC parts, that I caved in. Myself and some enthusiasts, probably 20 regulars, order approx US$3000 a month collectively on RC parts from rcmart and others......in fact, rcmart is a regular on our website and pops in from time to time to see whats up....

I am not endorsing rcmart in particular, but you gotta love how the internet has made the guys that are in it for the money, stand up and wave their hands, invest in the web and get the orders out.

Keep ordering from the net, keep supporting the guys that support you.....badword, you may even find 'Hello Kitty' pencilcases on the net too.....

[TA-Mark]

Sadly this is true. The local hobby shop here refuses to deal with Toy Traders. It's about profit for the retailer, and with the lack of service from Toy Traders and their wholesale prices, there is simply no profit in it for him, so he chooses to stock brands where he doesn't have to deal with Toy Traders.

Him and I sat down with the Toy Traders catalogue and price list and compared prices when I was buying buggy kits for my 4 boys. It was cheaper to buy the kits from Hong Kong, including the postage, than it was for him to buy them wholesale from Toy Traders. There was no way he could match the ebay prices and break even. The kits were also supplied quicker. It took 4 days for the kits to arrive in the post from Hong Kong, quicker than he can get stock from Toy Traders.

Toy Traders are also the Australian importers for Kyosho, Futaba and AFX (I do like my slotcars too). These brands would have to be suffering too as I see none of them on local shelves anymore.

It only leaves me with one question. Is it greedy hands in the middle or just a pooly run importer?

[merckx]

great attitude by the importer.. i love tamiya also. i just bought myself a TRF201. i got it in japan when i was there. tamiya is huge in japan of course. i buy all the spare parts on line.

a) because i can get exactly what i want, when i want, and not comprimise.

B ) its always significantly cheaper

c) it comes to my door..saves me going to the hobby shop.

[smegs]

great attitude by the importer.. i love tamiya also. i just bought myself a TRF201. i got it in japan when i was there. tamiya is huge in japan of course. i buy all the spare parts on line.

a) because i can get exactly what i want, when i want, and not comprimise.

B ) its always significantly cheaper

c) it comes to my door..saves me going to the hobby shop.

I know the prolbem to the hobby store I went too in Upland California called Pegasus Hobbies usto have tons of Tamiya stuff now, there stores shelves are empty. and have HPI and other brands. The only brand I trusted is TAmiya they make the best looking and models on the planet. I got my SRB because of the re realease.

[sirandy]

Mark, it is more than likely a bit of both. In today's fast moving world, there are online hobby shops that are drop-shipping to customers! Seriously, in years gone by that was nowhere NEAR an option. Can you imagine ordering from an online shop, say Mark's online hobbies, and the order is fulfilled directly from Tamiya?!? Certainly not in a case like this, simply because Tamiya sees major worth in protecting their distributors, and this is what benefits US as end-users. The problem arises when the distributor has an iron-grasp on it's region, and no competitor....it allows them to charge how they want, and allow service levels to dip, without recourse. For fear of sounding like I am stereo-typing anyone, the Japanese are proud people and Tamiya's loyalty to these distributors is written, any loss of a distributor may be seen as a loss of face....so, as in the case above, they offer the distributor the opportunity to correct their 'mistake' by forwarding the OP's letter to them. The disti sees this as a slap in the face, and react accordingly by 'demanding' the name of the guilty hobby-stores in order to shift the blame an rap them on the knuckles.

I have mentioned this before, but Tamiya also make it VERY difficult for the distributors to order by forcing them to order a minimum qty of items, for example, in our tiny market here in Dubai, the LHS is also the registered disti for the region, and when they order body kits for example, they have to order a minimum of 10, not 10 different types, but 10 of the same. The LHS will never move 10 of the same type in a year, 20 of differing types yes, but not 10 of the same. The same goes for kits, minimum is one carton of the same (typically 4 to 6 kits per carton). Maybe in a larger market like Aus, the disti could take up that slack, and distribute ( <--- it's what they are supposed to do right?) but if their minimum order exceeds by a long way what the LHS' are required to order, then it all falls over.

I have on occasion, ordered bulk parts from online stores, and supplied them to the LHS here,...and it was still viable for him to sell for a profit ..

Bottom line is, the market has changed immensely in the last 10 years, I doubt Tamiya are too concerned, because they have a broad market, and whether it goes to their old disti's or the online stores, they dont care. The onus is on the disti and his channel, and the way he manages it.

It is our prerogative as buyer to CHOOSE whether we want to support them and buy from the LHS, or wait 14 days to get the goods at a little cheaper, albeit with some hassle, from the online market.

Personally I love being in a hobby shop, and I very RARELY leave without buying something, but my online spend is higher, because stocks are better there, and prices are mostly better (NOTE how I put price as my second buying consideration)

[Tamiya1/10]

I think part of the problem is really Tamiya not protecting its distributors/ retailers buy allowing other regional sellers, say from Hong Kong, into your market. The only solution is only alloting x nos. per region. I am sure Tamiya is wondering how say Hong Kong seller could move say 100 kits where countries like Canada or Australia could only move the same of less. Another possible way is ask the government to check and tax as much incoming goods as possible. This may slow the flow of international sales of good. Likely there are just too much mail and the revenues it gets is not worth the extra manpower to check incoming good.

Tamiya itself could be allocating more popular models and parts to its high turnover distributor, hencing causing a backlog to the distributor that is not moving too much for Tamiya.

Cost of retail operation will always be more than a webseller who maybe operating from some low rent warehouse where his profit would likely be huge because buyer even pays for the shipping where retailers have to add all shipping cost to his store in his price.

[BeetleLover]

I have heard stories of Tamiya warning resellers who import the local (asian kits) into other countries. Asking them to stop and go through the correct channels ie the countries distributor. I attempted to become an online legitimate seller of Tamiya kits (from local distributor) a couple years back but was denied because it was not a Bricks and Mortar business... The local distributor would have looked good had I been able to shift a few kits and I reckon I could have! So what are you going to do, buy your Tamiya product from the over inflated priced low stocked model store or buy online at a cheaper rate from a larger selection and let some other countries Distributor look like an absolute legend! Does Tamiya have any idea how much of their product destined for a couple of countries goes around the world?

James

[Origineelreclamebord]

The same happened here in The Netherlands. I've seen Tamiya pretty much disappear, all because the Dutch Importer made a mess of his work! They just didn't send stuff that Hobby Shops ordered, or only after thousands of calls. I had that to several orders I made as well!

The worst part is that many customers start to mistrust the sellers in the Hobby Stores themselves, including me at some point. I did find out though that it wasn't just the shop where I usually came, it happened everywhere Luckily, the firm Reyne & Zonen is now gone bust - and you must hope the same happens to Toy Traders very soon!

Why? Well, the nice part of the story is that Hobby Shops started buying from our big neighbouring importer: Dickie-Tamiya. It's now the official Importer of the Netherlands as well, they now also have an office placed in the Netherlands for the Dutch Import. Things are not running sweet, but at least there are new releases coming in again!

I really hope this problem can be solved. 'Some' changes to the working philosophy perhaps, or they have to become bankrupt soon. Sadly it's not as easy for Australia to just pick another Importer, as there isn't another big one nearby - only China, or getting stuff shipped straight from the main factory line in the Philipines.

[Steamysteam]

You'd be bonkers not to buy from Honkers.

[MadInventor]

I've perceived a similar thing happening in the UK. I got back into tamiya since a friend introduced me to ebay about 4 years ago. When I bought my tiger I Full Option I paid £300 for it delivered to the door from Hong Kong, when the normal price for it in UK hobby shops was £600. In our case the greedy middle man is IMO the UK Tax man, (Import duty, VAT, Business rates on high street shops premises, etc). The simple fact is I would not have bought the number of NIB tamiya kits I have over the last 4 years if I had to pay hobby shop prices for them. Since the pound practically halved in value against the USD 2 years ago I've only bought 1 NIB kit, and that was a cheap one.

[redzone]

our LHS is now getting ts tamiya stock from another source, as they were so unhappy with toy traders. seriously even back in the 90's toy traders were hard to deal with, nowadays they're impossible. at least our LHS has the balls to do this and keep its tamiya customers happy. the parts are cheaper from their new supplier aswell!

If anyone from TT is reading this, you only have yourselves to blame! pick up your game!

[Swarm]

I walked into a small country town hobby shop down where I live Finley population 2,250 about a year ago .

I got to speaking with the owner and asked him why he did not stock Tamiya rc kits ,the owner said he approached toytraders as he was interested at one stage with stocking tamiya kits toytraders said if he wanted to stock tamiya kits he would have to have $4000.00 worth of stock on the shelves at all times he simply could not afford it he was struggling as it was the people that were coming in and asking about tamiya kits were older types in their late 30's - 40's kids were simply not interested in assembling an rc kit they were interested in RTR if anything that was if you could pull them away from their computers/mobile phones/ipods.

He also said he could not compete with the likes of ebay I asked him why did he not buy kits in from say H/K and sell them he said that if toytraders found out he would be in trouble I am not sure how true this is but I guess if he is a shop owner and imports something into the country that a sole supplier is responsible for and he bi passes them then I guess he could get into trouble.

I said why dont you close your doors and say sell from home or a industrial garage he said that in order to sell tamiya and some other brands he had to have a store /shop front so it was a catch 22

The shop owner at the time was having a huge sale and his intentions were to re-stock with leggo for the younger kids as he knew that was a seller .

I passed the hobby shop last week he has gone out of buisness doors closed after 40 years, its a sad state of affairs when a small town toy shop has to close his doors because of rules and regulations set by bigger companies like toytraders I am not saying toytraders were responsible for his closure but if he was able to stock his shelves with kits people had asked for and kept it to a minimal and not the $4000.00 toytraders insisted he do he might have stayed in buisness .

I also wrote to tamiya last year and did not get a reply from them directly instead I got a nasty letter as well from toytraders in no uncertain terms I told them to get bent and wished them every plague and apocalyptic thing under the sun to befall them all the nasty ones fire,brimstone,pestilence.I also said that by the time you (toytraders) manage to get newly released stock in it will probably be vintage or disscontinued .

I got an email from a mate in a hobbyshop in Queensland last week he said we have just gotten the tamiya re re sand scorcher in if you wanted to order one ,I replied and thanked him and said I had already a few of those kits and have had for months I purchased them from H/K.

Very good topic "H"

Stuart.

[chinaman SS]

It is now reliable to get something sent from overseas, hence, it will be cheaper, to a certain extent depending on the postage charges. Where previously it is the distributor or the shop owner who makes a small cut from the price of the item, now it is the delivery company and the tax man, where applicable.

Some will still continue to pay more to get the kit from a local shop, because they can get the kit straight away and not risking losing it in the postal system. Some will continue to support the LHS because of this. Most of us here I think, have a reliable source, and will continue to get the kit direct from HK. That is how a 'free' economy works isn't it? You get what you pay for and from where ever.

The fact that Modelzone in the UK still continues to be able to sell kits, means someone is buying from them even thought it is more expensive. Price of the re-re Hornet is about £100. I know I can get the same kit a lot cheaper from HK incl delivery, even though it might take 3 weeks to get to me will not matter, and that it might get lost will not matter as well, as I think I can 'trust' the system.

[MadInventor]

It is now reliable to get something sent from overseas, hence, it will be cheaper, to a certain extent depending on the postage charges. Where previously it is the distributor or the shop owner who makes a small cut from the price of the item, now it is the delivery company and the tax man, where applicable.

Some will still continue to pay more to get the kit from a local shop, because they can get the kit straight away and not risking losing it in the postal system. Some will continue to support the LHS because of this. Most of us here I think, have a reliable source, and will continue to get the kit direct from HK. That is how a 'free' economy works isn't it? You get what you pay for and from where ever.

The fact that Modelzone in the UK still continues to be able to sell kits, means someone is buying from them even thought it is more expensive. Price of the re-re Hornet is about £100. I know I can get the same kit a lot cheaper from HK incl delivery, even though it might take 3 weeks to get to me will not matter, and that it might get lost will not matter as well, as I think I can 'trust' the system.

+1

I've never had anything go misssing from HK, and have had a lot of orders from there.

[merckx]

yes, the hong kong, singapore and japan traders have all been very reliable in my experience. some of them even send hand written thank-you cards with the goods. quite amazing really...

[LamboDave]

I remember my first few years of working in Sydney around 1997. I spent most my lunchtimes in Hobbico, looking at the wall of NIB boxes. They had plently on display, with many spare parts available. Today, I don't even go into Hobbico as they have next to no tamiya kits. Last time I went there, I remember seeing a 1/14 truck Multifunction unit with a faded price tag of $530AUD. With today's online resources and my TowerHobbies membership entitlement discounts, I can get the same 1/14 truck multifunction unit delivered to my door for $300AUD. A discount of almost 50%. StellaModels could do the same deal for $315AUD. I would now only visit model shops to buy spray paints, as these can't be air-mailed. I am a strong, loyal fan of Tamiya and will continue to buying Tamiya models online, but I do feel their existance within Australia has disappeared. It's up to us aging Tamiya fans to provide our children with the best quality models from tamiya, so they too continue to support Tamiya via the 'online market', because if they walked into a modelshop today in Australia, they wouldn't know about Tamiya.

[HunterZero]

Today, I don't even go into Hobbico as they have next to no tamiya kits.

That's not right.

Hobbyco are now in the QVB, and they have plenty of Tamiya kits. Hornets, Blazing Stars, Hi-Lifts, CR crawlers, CC-01 land rovers and tractor trucks. They even have a couple of Sand Scorcher kits (priced at A$449), and at one point they had a couple of Buggy Champ kits. Most of their stock consists of TT-01, TA05 and M04/M05 car kits of course. Unfortunately, most of them are very expensive. They do have XBs as well, but there are more Tamiya kits than Tamiya XBs on the shop floor.

Plus they have a good stock of Tamiya warbirds right up to the the incredible 1/32 Spitfire VIII kit, and 1/24 scale static model car kits.

Castle Hill Hobbies have good range of Tamiya too, as do Hobbies in the Hills (still operating out of a warehouse since their shop burnt out).

Toy Traders is the 'man in the middle', skimming a profit from the kits they import. Unfortunately they have been abusing their position as sole importer by adding a huge markup to these kits, so by the time they make it to hobby shelves, they're overpriced by $100 or more. They haven't even bothered to properly set up a Tamiya Australia website yet. Now that 'grey' importing from Hong Kong directly is easy, cheap and reliable with online stores, I can see Toy Traders making less and less from their Tamiya stock - unfortunately the loser will be the bricks-and-mortar hobby shops who can't get stock at a competetive price. Whether Toy Traders wake up to this and reduce their prices, or continue to squeeze hobby shops, who knows? Will customs start slugging import duty?

One day, Toy Traders might give up on the Tamiya line, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. They have other import lines as well, like Futaba and Meccano, so Tamiya is probably just another toy line to them.

- James

[raysan]

Completely agree with the original post, Toy traders are a joke! The good thing is that they have their stickers on a lot of things at the local hobby shop i used so i knew what not to buy. I have had a couple of very negative experiences with them and will never buy anything from them again. Good luck to the HK dealers, they can see an opening in the Aus market and are happy to fill that void with decent service at a decent price. The day the govt raises the imoprt tax will be the day i find a new hobby such is my disgust at toy traders, stuff 'em i say and go direct. I will always support the local shops but they all know not to try and sell me something from our "local" importer. I'll probably get tracked down by the hobby mafia for writting this but who cares it needs to be said.

Now that i've vented that i'll go back to work

[Henk4Focus]

Sad state of affairs you have down under H. I can see from other members that it's a bad situation from the byuers point of view.

In SA we are at the point where only a few Hobby/toy shops stock the kits. The South Africans are a lazy bunch, so XB kits are becoming the no.1 selling product from Tamiya. As someone here mentioned, box quantities is a major factor for importers to take into account. I wanted to pre-order 2 CC01 Bronco's for the christmas period but was told that our importers didn't order these kits as they are still sitting with Pajero, Unimog and Land Cruiser kits that is just not selling at all. I understand that the XB Pajero is doing very well and they reordered these ready to run models everytime they do a Tamiya order. SA also never saw the rere Rough Rider as it was expensive and I was the only person who showed interest in one. Only solution was ordering new rere parts to get the run down one I have back into shape.

At least SA Hobby shops are still doing well with Tamiya and the prices are not bad at all.

HENK

[MetBoy]

I know what you're talking about!

I loved visiting hobby shops as a kid, and I fear that they will all be going the way of the dodo, at least as far as Tamiya is concerned.

I always give my hobby shops the chance to give me a better price before I by from overseas, and only once have I ever ended up buying a kit locally when I did!

And it is not just Tamiya either. I recently wanted to get my hands on an HPI Cup Racer Porsche 911 RSR, so I did the round of the hobby shops and the best I could do was AU$339, about $80 more than landed from Tower! When I finally found someone who would give me the full story, it was because,

a: they were not buying enough of the kit to get a good discount, and wait for it..

b: all the other versions were available seperately, but to get the Porsche the shop had to buy a three pack of 240Z, AE86, and the 911!

The price for all three was pretty good, so I ended up buying all three from him!! Done deal, happy ending!

Incidently anybody looking for an AE86, or a 240Z?

I want my kids to be able to experience the joy I feel when I think back to my hobby shop visits as a kid, but I suspect my patronage will not be enough to get the struggling shops over the line!

Cristian..

[Steamysteam]

OT I know, However is there anywhere in Sydney where I can see a Sand Scorcher in the flesh?

Cheers,

Steve

[SteelRat]

I've been buying my RC stuff online ever since I got back into it last year, that's largely down to price and convenience, but equally of the three or four local shops I've been in to, it's also been down to sheer quality of service. Going in to the shops I'm usually presented by rude, uninterested staff that see me, their customer, as more of an inconvenience than anything else.

Compare that to the likes of ModelSport, Wheelspin Models, Fusion Hobbies, Time Tunnel in the UK, and of course Stella Models in Hong Kong, and the service is always polite, efficient and if there's a problem it's resolved as quickly as possible with minimum inconvenience to me.

If my experience reflects that of others, is it any wonder people prefer to buy stuff online?

[TamiyaDan]

.

[WillyChang]

Him and I sat down with the Toy Traders catalogue and price list and compared prices when I was buying buggy kits for my 4 boys. It was cheaper to buy the kits from Hong Kong, including the postage, than it was for him to buy them wholesale from Toy Traders. There was no way he could match the ebay prices and break even. The kits were also supplied quicker. It took 4 days for the kits to arrive in the post from Hong Kong, quicker than he can get stock from Toy Traders.

uhuh no facts need correcting there

Toy Traders are also the Australian importers for Kyosho, Futaba and AFX (I do like my slotcars too). These brands would have to be suffering too as I see none of them on local shelves anymore.

sorry bud, Dawn Trading does Kyosho

http://www.dawntrading.com.au

TT also handles Meccano, Futaba, AFX & Ansmann

http://www.toytraders.com.au/

It only leaves me with one question. Is it greedy hands in the middle or just a pooly run importer?

TT is headed by a 70yo who got into bed with T HQ back in the 1970s and daresay has made his dough many times over.

More so back in the heyday 80s... shades of "Packer/Bond" corporate escapades but in 1/12th scale.

Doubt at this stage in life if he's too interested in investing much into the brand

(eg they stopped doing TCS here, giving excuses that all racers were buying gear from o/s);

otoh it'll cost anyone else too much (in total $$ as well as insufficient ROE imho) to buy him out.

As you guys have discovered, complaining to either TT or T HQ direct just ends up channelled back to TT anyway. = don't bother

Which (they think) adds to their muscle in trying to get HQ to stop o/s markets' distributors from sending personal purchases direct to Australia.

Unfortunately the world has changed... and i doubt has any effect on international trade,

other than o/s distributors wary of being seen to sell direct outside their patch.