New 1/10 4wd Trf Buggy

[JeepnMike]

Surprised this topic hasn't been brought up here. Don't know why I bother looking for this stuff... I can't afford it. LOL. Also suprised this will cost more than it's bigger 1/8 scale Nitro car brother:

http://www.redrc.net/2010/09/tamiya-trf502...t-driven-buggy/

http://www.rceasy.com/2010/09/25/tamiya-trf502x-chassis-kit/

http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=42183

I think I read it will be around $800 USD and available around the end of this month. I am confused about the battery.. Is it going to require a new kind of battery or do you just get saddle packs and set them together?

[TA-Mark]

It will take saddle packs only. From what I've read about it on other forums and the pictures I've seen, the pinion and spur gears are still exposed, so not suitable for loose dirt tracks. Tamiya have been late on the draw with this one and have aimed it, as usual, at clean hard packed tracks only, just like the 501 and 511.

The HPI Cyber 10b is the same layout and has been out for some time. Although the Cyber has the advantage of being able to use either saddle packs or a stick pack, and the whole driveline is sealed (pinion and spur aswell). I paid $210 each for my 2 Cybers. I see this as no improvement over the Cyber so the TRF502 is not on my list.

[JeepnMike]

I will never understand the exposed drivetrain in what is an off-road car either. If that is purely for weight savings, that logic is skewed.

[BeetleLover]

Hmmm, looks like a carbon copy of my Team Associated B44 from some time ago, think I'll pass... Looks like they've attemped to cover some of the center gear, why not do the whole thing?!

I much prefer the shaft driven cars over the belt ones, think this one will have an edge on the previous 501 etc...

James

[qatmix]

Hmmm, looks like a carbon copy of my Team Associated B44 from some time ago, think I'll pass... Looks like they've attemped to cover some of the center gear, why not do the whole thing?!

I much prefer the shaft driven cars over the belt ones, think this one will have an edge on the previous 501 etc...

James

I prefer belts after having a car with them. Reading on other forums it seems the 511 and 502 will both be in production. The 511 is the euro champ, beating all the other cars both shaft and belt.

As to dirt, mine stays clean even when raced in mud. The shell and undertray will keep most of it out. After 3 race meets my diff was fine. There is a diff cover available which keeps the diff even cleaner. Although where Mark races it seems to be very dusty and quite hostile to gears so I can see why he isnt interested.

It does look like a B44 from afar bit really It's not a clone as we are talking about race cars where balance, flex and geometry differences are much more subtle and important.

[highflyer]

JeepnMike, no thread was started because most racers on this site go to oople and rctech for this info.

I would trade my 501X for this anyday of the week!! No dirt in ball diffs.

[highflyer]

I will never understand the exposed drivetrain in what is an off-road car either. If that is purely for weight savings, that logic is skewed.

No logic behind it, its simple. These kits are made for factory racers and the average 'Joe or Rob' to race on prepped tracks. Go to a local race track and look at all the "high end" 4WD buggies (besides Losi) and you will see they all have exposed drivetrains...

-Rob

[Mouton]

The pinion and spur do not need to be sealed on a 1:10 4WD mid motor buggy. That makes it logical to me not to seal them.

I only race on loose dirt tracks but it has only happened twice that I got dirt in the drivetrain. Both occasions it was the rear diff cover that saw some dirt get in. Thus the open spur and pinion is a non-issue. I love how easy it is to set the 511 up as very few adjustments are needed. As mentioned the geometry is excellent and its equal length belts are both clever and durable. Mine still runs on the first set of belts.

I love my 511 and I may get a 502X as well.

[muratti]

I can only repeat what Mouton said. Having an exposed pinion and spur is absolutely no problem when racing on loose dirt. I race on my track since 12 years and NEVER had mud or stones gotten in the drivetrain. It is absolutely unlikely that debris get as far into the Chassi to destroy the spur or pinion if you have a body on your car. And who races without body, not many i assume....

[JeepnMike]

Lots of posts about the exposed gears here. So as a counterpoint, why would Tamiya tout certain buggies having such a great feature about their sealed drivetrains? Can anybody seriously argue that having an exposed drivetrain in a car that is built for off-road is actually BETTER? I could see it being easier to work on, but that is about it. I imagine they do leave it exposed purely because folks who buy cars like this hopefully know how to drive well enough for what the car is designed to be capable of, and are constantly making adjustments to the drivetrain (and everything else for that matter). That is about it though.

[highflyer]

Lots of posts about the exposed gears here. So as a counterpoint, why would Tamiya tout certain buggies having such a great feature about their sealed drivetrains? Can anybody seriously argue that having an exposed drivetrain in a car that is built for off-road is actually BETTER? I could see it being easier to work on, but that is about it. I imagine they do leave it exposed purely because folks who buy cars like this hopefully know how to drive well enough for what the car is designed to be capable of, and are constantly making adjustments to the drivetrain (and everything else for that matter). That is about it though.

All valid points. Some answers are in your post.

To clear this up, could you answer this question:

Would you buy a 4WD buggy (511, 502X, ZX-5 FS2, B44 etc.) with an open drivetrain? And if not, why?

[94eg!]

Sealed drivetrains are for bashing in unknown terrain. As others have already stated, it's simply a non-issue when racing on a prepped track. If it was an issue, all these cars would have sealed gearboxes or they wouldn't be able to compete...

[JeepnMike]

All valid points. Some answers are in your post.

To clear this up, could you answer this question:

Would you buy a 4WD buggy (511, 502X, ZX-5 FS2, B44 etc.) with an open drivetrain? And if not, why?

I wouldn't. Mainly because I refuse to buy saddle pack batteries. LOL That, and I couldn't justify the cost with what I currently use my buggies for.. One of these days it would be fun to get into more technical buggies. With family stuff and young kids absorbing every waking moment of the day, I am amazed I have the cars I currently have.

Back to my question about the sealed drivetrain, I am not saying I wouldn't buy one because of the exposed pinion and spur gear, I just don't like it

[merckx]

speaking of carbon copies, it is interesting how close the TRF201 is to the AE B4. if I was AE i would be pretty peeved....

[Berenger]

speaking of carbon copies, it is interesting how close the TRF201 is to the AE B4. if I was AE i would be pretty peeved....

This kind of thing happens a lot, and I mean everywhere, not just in RC.

When a design team start designing a new model (of anything) decisions are taken to give optimum performance, durability, most features, simplicity (sometimes) or low costs. Obviously those things are afforded different weights depending on what's being designed, but they and more inevitably drive the layout and 'look' of the end product.

In addition, designers would be foolish not to look at competitors and pick out the best parts of their design to study. That again inevitably leads to other manufacturers including features or elements in their design that closely resemble those of another manufacturer because they've already been designed close to their optimum. What are others to do, make something worse just to stop it looking too much like the original?

In any case, I don't think AE will be too peeved. They have a long head start on the TRF201 and the racers who have them will likely be reluctant to ditch their pit boxes full of spares and jump to a new model. They also have an advantage in offering a club level variant. Much cheaper, upgradable but basically the same underneath. Tamiya don't have that unless i've missed something, and your club racer who suddenly wants to go top-spec racing is more likely to buy the all singing all dancing version of what he or she has than jump to a completely new model.

Those are just my thoughts of course and i'm sure others will disagree.

[chinaman SS]

... They also have an advantage in offering a club level variant. Much cheaper, upgradable but basically the same underneath. Tamiya don't have that unless i've missed something, and your club racer who suddenly wants to go top-spec racing is more likely to buy the all singing all dancing version of what he or she has than jump to a completely new model ...

I think Tamiya is releasing a basic "TRF201" buggy, which is upgradeable to the TRF201 with the option parts available.

[Berenger]

I stand corrected.

My point about AE having a significant head start over Tamiya still stands though, aside from Tamiya fans of course, it's hard to imagine that a great many will drop their favoured B4 to run to the TRF201, at least until it's proven to be significantly superior to the B4. Given that buggy design seems to have reached a bit of a plateux at the moment that seems quite unlikely.

[DCLXVI]

All Tamiya cars are superior to the Associated cars...

Tamiya uses metric!

[qatmix]

I stand corrected.

My point about AE having a significant head start over Tamiya still stands though, aside from Tamiya fans of course, it's hard to imagine that a great many will drop their favoured B4 to run to the TRF201, at least until it's proven to be significantly superior to the B4. Given that buggy design seems to have reached a bit of a plateux at the moment that seems quite unlikely.

The thing is that generally chassis have evolved to a certain layout. However to call the car a copy isn't actually true. The devil is in the detail, the 201 is mighty on he track. It's already won the euros. The car has loads more steering than the b4 out of the box and feels very planted the track.

It's like f1 the cars are all similar, however engineering and design makes the world of difference.

[highflyer]

speaking of carbon copies, it is interesting how close the TRF201 is to the AE B4. if I was AE i would be pretty peeved....

, and the TC5 copied the 41X machines

[94eg!]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

[highflyer]

hmmm

!

[Top Force Racer]

, and the TC5 copied the 41X machines

Heck, the TC3 drivetrain copied the Avante!

[muratti]

All Tamiya cars are superior to the Associated cars...

Tamiya uses metric!

Not only that they are metric, i raced a B44 over this season and a mate raced the DB01R. I also have a Durango DEX410R and raced it for about 5 times with 2 broken parts for now with only minor impact. The B44 is a well engineered car i have to say but the downside is the quality of the parts. I already wondered when buying it that it costs about 100 Euro less than a TRF511 and now i know it is only because they use cheaper plastic and which is even more important, metal parts seem to wear MUCH faster than Tamiya ones. I had to change the AE Unviversal shafts twice as often as my friend on the DB01R and we raced the same class, same times.... So i think the best car is the upcoming TRF502X with the major technique of the B44 BUT with Tamiya quality. Seems unbeatable in my opinion, not in price but in performance and reliabilty.

[chinaman SS]

i am sure it will be cheaper from rcmart or stella