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Avante Coming Soon

RA1028

By RA1028
in Re-Release Discussions

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terry.sc Newbie Copy

terry.sc

Posted
Posted

I'd like to see any articles on that please. With the way people went/go on about Tamiya products, I'd like to know that the Avante managed to hold it's own against the Optima and Yokomo of the day.

I cannot personally prove this, I just found out myself yesterday on here:

http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?...=59316&st=0

*

As Tenzor posted, the Avante was the first 4wd car to be used by the TRF team. They had high hopes of winning international races with this car, but as we know now, the Avante was not capable of effectively competing with the offerings from Kyosho, Yokomo, Schummacher, AYK, etc.

Tamiya desperately wanted to dominate the 1988 IFMAR World Championship and had high hopes for the Avante, which was an obvious and radical departure from the Hotshot design. Unfortunately, what they cooked up was an overweight, over-engineered, and overly fragile hunk of soft aluminum and FRP. The 1988 team of TRF drivers were a skilled bunch and to take 7th place at the 1988 IFMAR with this car is a feat into itself! Commercially, the car failed as well. All those exotic materials and the Technigold motor bumped the price of this car up -- way up from previous Tamiya 4wd car offerings. Because of it's price, the gaining popularity of high performance 4wd cars during this time, and solid options from other manufacturers, it also marked one of the first times when large numbers of Tamiya devotees cross-shopped with other manufacturers for competitive 4wd vehicles.

Despite its shortcomings, the Avante did usher in some new designs, primarily it's drivetrain and rear suspension. Most people would say that the Avante design had flaws, but in reality, the Avante was designed for a different era. The biggest flaws were in the choice of materials used. Back in the day, tracks were rougher than most race tracks today. If they introduced the Egress first and TRF raced that in 1988, I'm sure they would have had better results.

But I see no reason why that might not be true. Hopefully someone has more info on this.

Seems no one answered this, and it needs answering as I like facts to actually be true.

Top Force Racer/Tenzor has rewritten the rubbish that TamiyaUSA posted on their TRF site, which I corrected here.

The Avante never raced on the international scene at all. As for "Tamiya desperately wanted to dominate the 1988 IFMAR World Championship" the buggy world championships run in odd numbered years, there wasn't a world championships in 1988. The 87 worlds pre-dated the Avante and at the 89 worlds Tamiya was represented by one non sponsored frenchman with an Egress and Astute. Unless Tamiya managed to do something in the races in Japan, the Avante never won anything, nor was it competitive at anything above club racing. Even the Egress with the UKs top driver struggled to win anything, most of the Egress's 'wins' being when it was being developed as the Manta Ray prototype with many hand made parts.

There was an article in RC Car Action magazine which was a shootout between the Optima Mid SE, Yokomo C4, Schumacher Cat and Avante. Considering the Avante was the latest car at the time it still finished fourth.

We also have reviews of it in the vintage media section review, running report which although posiitve aren't exactly great.

TenzoR Mentor

TenzoR

Posted
Posted
If you want to see how the 2011 Avante goes together Tamiya USA have uploaded the manual:

http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=58489

And then click on the product manual.

I do hope this will ease the pain until the beast is released.

Enjoy! :lol:

BTW donno if this has been posted before. If this is the case I apologize.

That's awesome find! A lot of similarities

New damper looks pretty awesome, still wish they made them more like the Aeration dampers with adjustable collars

I really hope they come out with some nifty hop-ups!

Wandy Newbie Copy

Wandy

Posted
Posted
Seems no one answered this, and it needs answering as I like facts to actually be true.

Top Force Racer/Tenzor has rewritten the rubbish that TamiyaUSA posted on their TRF site, which I corrected here.

The Avante never raced on the international scene at all. As for "Tamiya desperately wanted to dominate the 1988 IFMAR World Championship" the buggy world championships run in odd numbered years, there wasn't a world championships in 1988. The 87 worlds pre-dated the Avante and at the 89 worlds Tamiya was represented by one non sponsored frenchman with an Egress and Astute. Unless Tamiya managed to do something in the races in Japan, the Avante never won anything, nor was it competitive at anything above club racing. Even the Egress with the UKs top driver struggled to win anything, most of the Egress's 'wins' being when it was being developed as the Manta Ray prototype with many hand made parts.

There was an article in RC Car Action magazine which was a shootout between the Optima Mid SE, Yokomo C4, Schumacher Cat and Avante. Considering the Avante was the latest car at the time it still finished fourth.

We also have reviews of it in the vintage media section review, running report which although posiitve aren't exactly great.

All of which makes it truly astounding that they have re-released it, and at a monster price too.

tamiyoman Experienced

tamiyoman

Posted
Posted

WANDY- All of which makes it truly astounding that they have re-released it, and at a monster price too.

I think its not astounding that they re-re it tbh for several reasons:-

Its VERY popular amongst collectors (perhaps because in the UK we LOVE an Underdog!), and likely for most others as at the time it was technology taken to the 8th degree albeit a massive fail due to weight and fragility.

The fact it dd not win anything is really nothing to do with it, did the frog, grasshopper, Thundershot, or most of the other re-re's win anything?, in fact did Tamiya win anything with MOST of their buggies?, NOPE but they still got re-re'd and collectors and 30 somethings still bought them, Tamiya are clever, people love to collect their cars, they are cashing in and why not!?.

The Avante was also after all possibly one of the most sought after cars for a kid when taken to the model shop by his father (i remember this myself, I wanted the Avante i got the Terra Scorcher (which was a wise choice as it was a good little club racer lol).

Its a great looking car and it was the 1st of a good looking series, can you say the same about other series that they made (maybe excluding HS/HSII and Supershot although tbh the HS and HS2 were not exactly lookers lol).

Its not exactly going to cost them much more in development costs is it as it remains largely unchanged and represents a nice little earner for them.

Think all the above reasons are why its being re-re'd.

djmcnz Veteran

djmcnz

Posted
Posted
:lol: Wouldn't having both screw heads on the same side throw the wheels outta balance?

camlock.jpg

Assuming they were symmetrical across the centre line of the cap running between the screws then I think the answer to your questions would be: not if they screw in (read: through) far enough.

Although it strikes me that it would be way easier (and likely less expensive) to achieve the same outcome by alternating the orientation as you point out.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! Why does my next post edit to the end of this one? I want to post a NEW post!

This is meant to be a New Post dumb forum.

Wandy Newbie Copy

Wandy

Posted
Posted
WANDY- All of which makes it truly astounding that they have re-released it, and at a monster price too.

I think its not astounding that they re-re it tbh for several reasons:-

Its VERY popular amongst collectors (perhaps because in the UK we LOVE an Underdog!), and likely for most others as at the time it was technology taken to the 8th degree albeit a massive fail due to weight and fragility.

The fact it dd not win anything is really nothing to do with it, did the frog, grasshopper, Thundershot, or most of the other re-re's win anything?, in fact did Tamiya win anything with MOST of their buggies?, NOPE but they still got re-re'd and collectors and 30 somethings still bought them, Tamiya are clever, people love to collect their cars, they are cashing in and why not!?.

The Avante was also after all possibly one of the most sought after cars for a kid when taken to the model shop by his father (i remember this myself, I wanted the Avante i got the Terra Scorcher (which was a wise choice as it was a good little club racer lol).

Its a great looking car and it was the 1st of a good looking series, can you say the same about other series that they made (maybe excluding HS/HSII and Supershot although tbh the HS and HS2 were not exactly lookers lol).

Its not exactly going to cost them much more in development costs is it as it remains largely unchanged and represents a nice little earner for them.

Think all the above reasons are why its being re-re'd.

Well, yes I agree that it is popular here on TC, mainly IMO due to the exotic nature of the car and the fact that it was probably the one that none of us could ever hope to own as a basher when we were kids due to how expensive it was! However Tamiya cannot be re-issuing kits simply due to their popularity on TC (although I have no doubt it will be a quite significant factor in the grand scheme of things).

The difference however between this re-release is that most of the other kits that have been re-released were a smash hit back in the 1980s. They not only sold a massive amount of them but those cars were great at doing the job for which they were designed, ie bashing. The Avante, however, was sold as a top of the line competition car designed to blow the competition away. As Terry has confirmed, it failed in it's remit dismally and was both a technical & sales flop (although I obviously have no evidence to back up the sales assumption, but if there were none of these things at race meetings then who else would have been buying them?). For this reason it has nothing in common with the other re-releases yet Tamiya have still brought it back and once more it has a monster price tag....a price tag which is on average 3 to 4 times higher than all of the previous re-releases, with the exception of the SRBs.

Don't get me wrong I'm delighted it's coming back and mine is already on pre-order with Stella, I'm just really taken aback that this one is returning...and I'm probably pretty well known for being one of the biggest re-re optimists on this forum! :lol:

djmcnz Veteran

djmcnz

Posted
Posted

Someone will know...

I have a NIB Avante Carbon Chassis Set... would this be of any practical use on the re-re... given that it is already carbon? Any other bits in the chassis set that could/should be applied to the re-re? Would it even fit?

tamiyoman Experienced

tamiyoman

Posted
Posted
Well, yes I agree that it is popular here on TC, mainly IMO due to the exotic nature of the car and the fact that it was probably the one that none of us could ever hope to own as a basher when we were kids due to how expensive it was! However Tamiya cannot be re-issuing kits simply due to their popularity on TC (although I have no doubt it will be a quite significant factor in the grand scheme of things).

The difference however between this re-release is that most of the other kits that have been re-released were a smash hit back in the 1980s. They not only sold a massive amount of them but those cars were great at doing the job for which they were designed, ie bashing. The Avante, however, was sold as a top of the line competition car designed to blow the competition away. As Terry has confirmed, it failed in it's remit dismally and was both a technical & sales flop (although I obviously have no evidence to back up the sales assumption, but if there were none of these things at race meetings then who else would have been buying them?). For this reason it has nothing in common with the other re-releases yet Tamiya have still brought it back and once more it has a monster price tag....a price tag which is on average 3 to 4 times higher than all of the previous re-releases, with the exception of the SRBs.

Don't get me wrong I'm delighted it's coming back and mine is already on pre-order with Stella, I'm just really taken aback that this one is returning...and I'm probably pretty well known for being one of the biggest re-re optimists on this forum! :lol:

Was the Top Force re-re around £200 when released? and the SS and rough rider were also around that figure too, if the avante is coming out around £300 its not that far off those prices surely?.

I know re-re prices dropped after 12 months but surely this will too?

Wandy Newbie Copy

Wandy

Posted
Posted
Was the Top Force re-re around £200 when released? and the SS and rough rider were also around that figure too, if the avante is coming out around £300 its not that far off those prices surely?.

I know re-re prices dropped after 12 months but surely this will too?

Nope, the Top Force was widely available for ~£80 when shipped from Hong Kong. The Avante will be nearly 4 times that price.

Top Force re-re prices are only so high now because the kit was only in production for about 4 months and not many were made available.

The SRBs were/are pricey but the clamour to bring them back was much, much stronger than the Avante. To add to that, the SRBs were an astronomical success back in the day, therefore re-releasing them made much more sense.

tamiyoman Experienced

tamiyoman

Posted
Posted
Nope, the Top Force was widely available for ~£80 when shipped from Hong Kong. The Avante will be nearly 4 times that price.

Top Force re-re prices are only so high now because the kit was only in production for about 4 months and not many were made available.

The SRBs were/are pricey but the clamour to bring them back was much, much stronger than the Avante. To add to that, the SRBs were an astronomical success back in the day, therefore re-releasing them made much more sense.

think the hotshot was around £125+

Wandy Newbie Copy

Wandy

Posted
Posted
think the hotshot was around £125+

From Hong Kong it was just under £100 all in, although the exchange rate was better in 2007.

tamiyoman Experienced

tamiyoman

Posted
Posted

So HS in 85 was around £150 and re re about £100, avante in 88' was around £220-250 depends who you bought from and now its going to be around £300, i dont think its all bad, suppose we lose on some and gain on others.

I think for most people its not about the price its about the ability to own one (or more) of them, i think if they re-re the hilux/bruiser/blazer, it would likely be £4-500 and you can bet they would sell thousands of them at that price, as the old adage goes "its worth what people are prepared to pay" (Which is a lot less today than in 2007 LMAO, as a seller i know that lol).

GTodd Newbie Copy

GTodd

Posted
Posted
Someone will know...

I have a NIB Avante Carbon Chassis Set... would this be of any practical use on the re-re... given that it is already carbon? Any other bits in the chassis set that could/should be applied to the re-re? Would it even fit?

OMG yes!!!! If the kit is complete it will convert the Re-re to an Egress, minus the ball diffs, and some other tiny bits. Check your PMs.

MrUnlimited Collaborator

MrUnlimited

Posted
Posted
Can you use Egress/Avante 2001 front and rear arms? I remember, they fit

Sure why not? It is the same car. Difference is the rear shocktower, front uprights, the material of the chassisparts and the motor.

Also in the exportkits outside Japan will include bonus rims. Japan kits will include a t-shirt.

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