Live Steam Mad 17 Posted November 19, 2010 Hi, has anyone bought the new re-re Holiday Buggy kit just for the body and managed to fill the holes in the bonnet ( hood ) and put it back to looking like the original release HB ? If so, what filler did you use to fill the holes and was it successful and did you manage to paint the body afterwards ? Can you get the re-re body as a separate item without buying the kit ? Is the body still PolyEthene the same as the manual states for the original HB ? Cheers, Alistair G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeetleLover 4 Posted November 19, 2010 JAnderson I think did an article for a Tamiya site showing the best method for filling these holes and the product used, send him a pm to track down it's whereabouts James Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinned 134 Posted November 19, 2010 scroll down..... http://www.tamiyausa.com/articles/feature.php?article-id=475 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted November 20, 2010 Thanks, that's a handy guide, and good info. it seems. Cheers, Alistair G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted November 20, 2010 OK big problem, I cannot find TAP Poly-Weld in the UK ? Or is there a UK or European equivalent? It's an adhesive designed to be able to bond / stick to PolyEthylene which is if I remember another name for PolyEthene which the original and re-re HB body is made from. Help! Alistair G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted November 20, 2010 I found something which looks to be available in UK which can bond PolyEthene / PolyEthylene ;- http://www.repairproducts.co.uk/page59.htm http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/portal/3M/en...Cbe2VP2LSN43Qgl http://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-Scotch-Weld-469...e/dp/B002G3M9S0 It's not cheap! Anyone got a cheaper suggestion on a glue for PE ? Cheers, Alistair G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted November 20, 2010 I just checked on TAP's website and it seems they do international postage but the cheapest quoted value just for the postage on their 1 oz. / 30 ml Poly-Weld (13.95 USD for the Poly-Weld itself) was 44 USD !! I don't know if it's a restricted item anyway as far as Air mail is concerned ? Cheers, ARG Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jim the wookie 0 Posted November 21, 2010 i have the same problem getting this product in Australia. Are there any US members who would be willing to buy some on our behalfs and post it out to those of us who can't get it? (big ask i know) Jim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted January 13, 2013 OK solved this by getting "Mr Sticky's Poly-Bonder Polyethylene Polypropylene HDPE Plastics Adhesive Glue" from Ebay for 10 GBP, see ;- http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57259&st=775#entry479543 Cheers, ARG Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted January 18, 2013 Right, the blue Holiday Buggy body arrived today from jadlamracingmodels.com and I saw it said "PE" in the shell and copyright 1980 -2010 Tamiya. I went looking for a butane torch to flame treat the surface and didn't see one that was easy to obtain or that had a good review in the UK so I ended up just using a Ronson cigarette lighter from Tesco (one of the cheap coloured ones in a pack of 3 I seem to remember) and I twiddled the little switch on the front of the lighter to make the flame to it's fullest, then I waved it backwards and forwards over the hole (NEVER letting it stay in one place) and the hole's surroundings, each pass lasting 1/2 a second, and I did 5 passes then let it cool, then did another 5 passes and then let it cool again, then another 5 passes (3 lots of 5 in total). Then I went around each hole edge with 3 lots of 5 passes again. Then the same on the underside of the bonnet around the holes. Then the disposable lighter ran out of Butane! But at least I have 2 more. I found this out by cutting off the scrap from the roof section (the X shaped part that you have to cut out) and using the lighter flame on it and finding that one leg of the X had water beading on it, whereas the flame treated leg had the water go straight into a sheen (water film) without the water beading. When I put some water onto the body with a finger tip the water now beads on the places that are untreated and goes into a sheet where it has been flame treated. Now to try the glue that I bought! Cheers, Alistair G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted January 18, 2013 Well I tried the glue and didn't bother to rough up the surface (since you are only adhering to the inside walls of the 2 holes) and just cleaned instead with IsoPropanol then applied the masking / painter's tape underneath the holes to support the glue, then mixed it with an old Copydex plastic spreader and then applied it to the holes to fill them. The glue took ages and ages to even start to go off, and a couple of hours later is only just starting to go to the consistency of a firm gum. So it's like 24 hour instead of 5 minute Epoxy. At least it should be stronger than it would have been then (since 24 hour Epoxy is stronger than 5 min stuff). Make sure to mix this glue in exactly 1:1 ratio, it's rather more sensitive to this than usual Epoxy, I found, i.e. the glue doesn't cure properly if you don't add quite enough hardener. I'll see tomorrow when I take the tape off and start sanding, if it has actually worked. Or if it comes straight off. I must say I wish Tamiya had of used PolyStyrene for this body like they usually do, i.e. something you can bond to. If anyone has an idea for a cheap gas torch with a flame spreader attachment then I'd love to hear it since I might end up having to heat the whole body in order to get the paint to adhere to the PolyEthene. Cheers, Alistair G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kontemax 1725 Posted January 18, 2013 So, let me understand better. To paint the HB body you must heat up the plastic? And please, can you add some pictures of your work in progress? Thanks Max Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted January 18, 2013 So, let me understand better. To paint the HB body you must heat up the plastic? And please, can you add some pictures of your work in progress? Thanks Max Sure Max, my pleasure, here's some pictures of my work so far ;- https://picasaweb.go...ToThePolyEthene Joe Anderson the Tamiya employee did an article (link below) to show us how to alter the molecular structure of the surface of the PolyEthene plastic that the HB body is made from (both original and re-re are >PE< ) so that the glue is able to successfully bond to the PE body. Also you MUST use glue specially formulated for PE like the one I show here that I bought recently from Ebay. The way that you alter the surface of the HB body to accept the glue is by use of FLAME TREATMENT . However, although you might think that this is completely mad, it does actually work. I don't know if it's the heat of the flame that does it or the PLASMA of the flame (I strongly suspect the latter), so e.g. I don't think just a hot air gun (paint stripper) would work. Otherwise wouldn't Tap plastics on the video on that web page linked to above just tell you to use a paint stripper hot air gun or a hairdryer? But I just don't know for sure about that yet. Joe also mentions that in order for the paint to be able to adhere well to the body (despite using special PE compatible paints where you can) he believes that you have to also flame treat the WHOLE BODY (!). The problem is that without an e.g. Bernzomatic propane torch with Flame Spreader attachment (available only in USA it seems, item code TS1500KC for the torch / gas can kit) that TAP plastics shows in their video, I don't think this is going to be possible with e.g. my cigarette lighter, since it would run out of gas (unless I buy a refillable lighter and a can of gas from the Newsagent shop). http://www.tamiyausa...?article-id=475 My friend Jon H. has a propane torch (Sievert) for Model Engineering but it's run out of gas (30 GBP for a refil from MESAS / North West Gasses here in St.Helens), and I don't think you can get a flame spreader for it? Any way the flame / plasma treatment (using a cigarette lighter) seems to have worked on my HB body, the glue has set overnight and is now about as hard as normal cured Epoxy and I tried to remove a little of tiny "runs" of glue that got spilled past the hole by accident with my fingernail and it wouldn't come off, despite me pressing quite hard. So it looks to have worked. But I was very thorough indeed with my flame treatment Now I am left with the problem of flame treating the whole body to accept the paint. I will need a gas torch with a 1 1/2 inch flame spreader, that I can buy in Europe, and around approx 25 GBP (60 USD) at the most. Any ideas?! Unless Joe is wrong and you only need the flame treatment for the glue only, and you can get a decent paint finish that will be fairly strong just by providing a "key" for the paint to grab onto by sanding the body (which I suspect is the truth). So worst case scenario I now just sand the whole body with P800 or P1000 and then paint it with a PS (Tamiya PolyCarbonate) spray, or a Tamiya Acrylic sprayed on? Cheers, Alistair G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr crispy 2293 Posted January 19, 2013 Everyone I've known thats tried painting the body says the paint flakes off pretty quick once you run it, no matter what they've used to paint or prime it with. If you're just making a shelter then it should be ok. Tamiya need to release a hard plastic body set preferably with inserts for the bonnet holes so those that want to paint it and have the old skool look are happy. I can't see how this wouldn't make them a ton of cash... maybe the nature of the mould would require regigging for a less flexible plastic but still, with all the interest Im sure they'd make a decent profit! Have you considered vinyl sheet? You can get it in most colours and even get it printed with your own designs. It's effectively the same stuff the Tamiya decals come on so you can heat it with a normal hair dryer to fit around awkward shapes and contours. I'm thinking to try it out on a hard body beetle shell I fitted on a KBF chassis. It'll cover large areas and hopefully protect the roof from rollover damage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted January 19, 2013 Everyone I've known thats tried painting the body says the paint flakes off pretty quick once you run it, no matter what they've used to paint or prime it with. If you're just making a shelter then it should be ok. Tamiya need to release a hard plastic body set preferably with inserts for the bonnet holes so those that want to paint it and have the old skool look are happy. I can't see how this wouldn't make them a ton of cash... maybe the nature of the mould would require regigging for a less flexible plastic but still, with all the interest Im sure they'd make a decent profit! Have you considered vinyl sheet? You can get it in most colours and even get it printed with your own designs. It's effectively the same stuff the Tamiya decals come on so you can heat it with a normal hair dryer to fit around awkward shapes and contours. I'm thinking to try it out on a hard body beetle shell I fitted on a KBF chassis. It'll cover large areas and hopefully protect the roof from rollover damage. Thanks for the info, I wasn't yet aware that other owners of the HB find that the paint flaked off after running the car, after the body had been sanded properly first. Or did they not do the sanding first, and / or not use PE paints? In which case, I can understand it. This is my first ever HB shell and I am not familiar with the effects of painting PE shells yet. I need to read up on this. If anyone has any useful links then that would be great. In the case that the paint flakes off after sanding it (to provide a key), after running the car, then maybe the flame treatment would keep the paint on sufficiently? Has anyone else than Joe Anderson tried to flame treat the body and then paint it and then tried running the car as a mild "basher" to see if the paint flakes off ?! I'll take a look at PE paints next and see what they say on the container concerning preparation before painting. Cheers, ARG Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted January 20, 2013 Henk4Focus posted here ;- http://www.tamiyaclu...06 "It doesn't stick at all. Used Tamiya plastic primer after a huge sanding job, but still the slightest nick and the paint flakes of. The flanks are the main culprit here. I'll have to get a second shell as a runner and this one for show. So wish I could say that the primer made the paint stick." ...so at least Tamiya plastic primer and sanding doesn't work. But I wonder whether the flame treatment works. Joe Anderson didn't mention whether the paint flaked off on his after the flame treatment after running the car. I don't think anyone else flame treated the whole body like he did yet? Or if they did has anyone got a link to it? In the meantime I'm looking into using PE formulated paints. Cheers, Alistair G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted January 20, 2013 Well this one appears to be the correct primer for PE, from Rust Oleum ;- http://www.rustoleum...uct.asp?pid=119 "Rust-Oleum Specialty Plastic Primer Spray prepares plastic for painting with any top coat. Apply directly to plastic mailboxes, lawn chairs, storage lockers and more. Adheres to hard-to-paint surfaces." And for those of us in UK ;- http://www.rust-oleum.eu/english Cheers, Alistair G. [spam posts moved here; http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=68890] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted January 22, 2013 Qatmix mentions here ;-http://www.tamiyaclu...06... If you want to paint a HB shell just use Auto paints.. I have a shell thats 25 years old and it still hasnt flaked... and it was bashed hard (it has no roof to prove it) I wonder what was meant by Auto paints ? Would this be 2 pack Epoxy (very dangerous, I doubt it) or the kind of spray can paints for painting over scratches that I see in Halfords? And what primer is used? Acid Etch primer (that is usually used on bare steel car bodies before painting)? Or a different one? Or no primer? Cheers, Alistair G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted January 22, 2013 Sorry but the edit post system seems to have changed all of a sudden and everything went nuts and quotation marks screwed things up etc. And it added a double post? My mistake? Seems I'm not great with the new forum system unless something has changed? PS something is going on with the TC message system as well, it's like the formatting is screwed up or something? Or is it just my PC / Firefox that has gone wrong?! A.G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Live Steam Mad 17 Posted January 22, 2013 I PM'ed Qatmix, who replied and told me "it was acrylic motor paint from a car shop like halfords. It was my Dad who mainly did it. I was a plastic primer, you can then layer a std grey primer on top." I remember using the standard primer from Halfords a while ago on the inside of a PolyStyrene body (not PE) as a test and it etched itself into the body! The Halfords primer that said it was for plastics didn't etch, and I seem to remember I still have some. Will try it and see how I get on. Got the 2nd Frog (my runner) to finish first though, I'm half way done on the body on the 2nd Frog. Cheers, Alistair G. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites