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How Likely Is A Porsche 959 Re-release?

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39 minutes ago, moffman said:

Well by looks of Nuremberg not this time:mellow:!!!

Been watching the releases today as well and was thinking the same thing. :(

Getting sick of waiting!

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Oh boy, much prefer this compared to the 959. I can finally make a replica of the one used in James Bond. 

Screenshot_20180131-082859.jpg

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Wait... I thought this was a thread about creating enthusiasm and having Tamiya bring back into production the original Porsche 959 Nr. 58059?

Oh nevermind I'll fix it :-)

From the archives.

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This ^^^^ rear shot — amazing.

 

 

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art_1115200381527_1.jpg

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I so want to build another one of these kits, these old articles bring back so many memories. Such a pleasure with the small scale, complexity and drivability. now if they redesigned the rims to properly match the real 959... One can only wish, keeping my fingers crossed this moves up to the top spot on the re-re list at Tamiya.

Cheers, Thompson

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I know the yellow wheels are wrong. But I must admit I actually rather like them. 

However. As Tamiya haven’t re-released this, I sent my money elsewhere. Sorry Tamiya, your loss this time round. 

BCBFF89E-2EAE-45A3-8F7F-6F549DC0580F.jpg

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Yes, I have the same Carisma Porsche 959! I've found a set of rallye spec tires that fit on the different sized rims, send me a Pm so as not to clog up this thread.

Cheers, Thompson

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Tony from Tonys Tamiya parts, has been told by Tamiya UK the 959 will never be re-released as the body mould is broken

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26 minutes ago, Pumesta said:

Tony from Tonys Tamiya parts, has been told by Tamiya UK the 959 will never be re-released as the body mould is broken

Given the excellent quality of the TeamBlueGroove 959, I really don't think it would be beyond the capability of Tamiya to re-create the mould if they wanted to. Whether they want to, either financially, or for other reasons known only to Tamiya, is a different question. 

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I've never really looked into the 959, just heard the comments, but that OG Tamiya video makes it look so fun!

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They are hinting at never, and waiting until we have lost all hope, and then BAM! They will blow our minds with it out of the blue :)

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On 03/02/2018 at 6:31 AM, Pumesta said:

Tony from Tonys Tamiya parts, has been told by Tamiya UK the 959 will never be re-released as the body mould is broken

Bahahaha...well fix it or remake it Tamiya are a major company ,it’s not a cottage industry 😂

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On 02/02/2018 at 7:31 PM, Pumesta said:

Tony from Tonys Tamiya parts, has been told by Tamiya UK the 959 will never be re-released as the body mould is broken

he said the same to me this afternoon when i was at his house buying stuff

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On 2/2/2018 at 11:31 AM, Pumesta said:

Tony from Tonys Tamiya parts, has been told by Tamiya UK the 959 will never be re-released as the body mould is broken

It's more than that.

If it were simply a case of a broken mold, Tamiya would produce new ones to re-release a 959. There's got to be more to it.

The story I've heard over the years is that Porsche and Tamiya had some sort of disagreement, which ultimately lead to the deliberate destruction of the mold and loss of rights for Tamiya.

I have no idea if this story is true, but facts are, there isn't a single 959 Rally anywhere in Tamiya's entire catalogue. :mellow:

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it come down to the livery also as tobaco(rothmans) aint allowed to be used as sponsor anymore plus the other sponsors wont allow it.

tamiya do have a good working relasonship porsche just look how much of thier cars are released know this is what i was also told today.

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10 minutes ago, topforcein said:

it come down to the livery also as tobaco(rothmans) aint allowed to be used as sponsor anymore plus the other sponsors wont allow it.

tamiya do have a good working relasonship porsche just look how much of thier cars are released know this is what i was also told today.

They changed it to "Racing" very early in the production run, and the re-re Frog didn't feature "Budweiser" either. Any re-re of the 959 would simply be a "Racing" livery, simple as that.

It's not their relationship with Porsche, but something in particular involving the 959 Rally Special version... Tamiya does a 959 street-version in 1/24 static, but a rally version simply doesn't exist. I wonder why?

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On ‎04‎.‎02‎.‎2018 at 11:44 PM, OCD said:

They changed it to "Racing" very early in the production run, and the re-re Frog didn't feature "Budweiser" either. Any re-re of the 959 would simply be a "Racing" livery, simple as that.

It's not their relationship with Porsche, but something in particular involving the 959 Rally Special version... Tamiya does a 959 street-version in 1/24 static, but a rally version simply doesn't exist. I wonder why?

I generally agree, but I have a couple of "conflicting" but friendly comments.

For most countries, the change from "Rothmans" to "Racing" surely happened after some (short) time, but not in all.  I still lived in Norway at that time and worked for the Norwegian Tamiya distributor. As for virtually any new item from Tamiya, we received two samples of the 959 kit 2-3 months before the first regular shipment arrived. Tamiya shipped out samples like this back then and untill I quit in 2000 (maybe still does?) to allow the distributors to build showroom models and/or have models to show to shops and customers to prepare them for the coming releases.  I built one of the 959 samples and just like all regular shipment 959's received for our market, it came with "Racing" stickers from Tamiya for the simple reason that all tobacco advertising was banned in Norway as early as 1973. So any product with any kind of  tobacco logos and/or liveries (except the tobacco product itself!) was simply illegal in Norway, regardless of being meant for children or adults.

As for Tamiya stopping to manufacture "tobacco livery" products, it was a  self-imposed restriction. After all, Japanese "tobacco laws" are still extremely liberal. In 1990/1991, Tamiya released a statement, informing that they saw it as their obligation to no longer "promote" tobacco with their products. The 1/24 static model 24098 Cabin R90V Nissan released in 1990 was their very last tobacco livery product. As for a possible 959 Rally re-release, I admittedly don't know for sure if Tamiya would include "Racing" and Rothmans-stripes stickers like back in the day, but I consider it unlikely. After all, not only has Tamiya avoided the tobacco logos themselves. The relatively recent McLaren F1 cars didn't only come without Marlboro logos. Tamiya instead avoided the complete livery, giving the models a rather generic look (see Tamiya's official photos below). So I believe Tamiya would do it in a similar way if they should choose to re-release the 959.

Japanese Company Tabu Design have set up their own lucrative business by offering tobacco livery aftermarket decals to customers who buy kits that come without the correct decals. As far as I know only for static model kits, but I see no reason why they (or a competitor) shouldn't do the same for RC-models if the demand is large enough. If not, we always have the Repros anyway. So if Tamiya would re-release the 959 completely without the Rothmans livery, getting it "right" wouldn't be a problem at all.

As for possible specific issues (or conflict) between Porsche and Tamiya related to the Rally 959, it may not be of any relevance, but both Fujimi (1/32 scale) and Gunze Sangyo (1/24 scale) had plastic model kits of the Porsche 959 Rally (in Rothmans livery) in their programs for years after Tamiya stopped manufacturing their model.

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Thanks Mokei, I was hoping someone would come along and clarify a bit B)

That's a great synopsis of the Racing vs. Rothman's livery liveries; I never knew they sent them out from the beginning. I guess that explains why there's so many kits of the Racing variety out there!

It's surprising to read that Tamiya made an official decision on not featuring Tobacco logos and liveries so early on. According to the tiny bit of research I've done, Tobacco sponsorship logos weren't entirely banned until 2005 :huh: However Marlboro had been using the "barcode" designs since 1972!?

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/21/6/529

I wonder how Tamiya felt about the barcode liveries they were producing through the 90s? It seems even Marlboro recognized they were being tricky with their carefully-designed stripes.

I am also curious as to how the Porsche emblem seemed to disappear from the box at some point as well. Perhaps this is some indication of what happened with the usage rights? Any thoughts?

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@Mokei Kagaku - Great information, thank you for posting.

Let's take a hypothetical route. Say for instance, the original 959 mould and or rights to re-produce are NLA. Then, let's go this route.

I would be more than happy to have Tamiya launch a NEW 1/12 scale RC kit based on an existing Porsche 961 Tamiya already has in 1/24 scale. Very few sponsors on this. A on-road version could be made based on the MF-01X chassis. They must still have this 1/24 scale mould? That would be easy to scale up to 1/12 size and could even use the same box art!

Below is an Radiograph pen and ink drawing I illustrated on vellum in 1990 and was published in November, 1990 Road & Track magazine on the calendar page.

Cheers, Thompson

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illustration-portfolio-road-and-track-ca

http://thompsonsmithstudio.com/illustration-portfolio.html

 

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22 minutes ago, studioRS said:

@Mokei Kagaku - Great information, thank you for posting.

Let's take a hypothetical route. Say for instance, the original 959 mould and or rights to re-produce are NLA. Then, let's go this route.

I would be more than happy to have Tamiya launch a NEW 1/12 scale RC kit based on an existing Porsche 961 Tamiya already has in 1/24 scale. Very few sponsors on this. A on-road version could be made based on the MF-01X chassis. They must still have this 1/24 scale mould? That would be easy to scale up to 1/12 size and could even use the same box art!

If T was seriously interested in making $$$ from a Porker on MF01X...

they should mold a new MACAN ^_^ in lexan

Those would fly off the shelves faster than a GTS :P

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40 minutes ago, WillyChang said:

If T was seriously interested in making $$$ from a Porker on MF01X...

they should mold a new MACAN ^_^ in lexan

Those would fly off the shelves faster than a GTS :P

Fully agree!

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15 hours ago, OCD said:

I am also curious as to how the Porsche emblem seemed to disappear from the box at some point as well. Perhaps this is some indication of what happened with the usage rights? Any thoughts?

No sorry, I have no idea. I just exclude the typical claims about general licensing issues between Porsche and Tamiya. I mean, Tamiya have released 99 Porsche models (static and RC) in a steady flow since the release of 58059. Doesn't really indicate a conflict or licensing issue to me.

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16 hours ago, studioRS said:

Let's take a hypothetical route. Say for instance, the original 959 mould and or rights to re-produce are NLA. Then, let's go this route.

I would be more than happy to have Tamiya launch a NEW 1/12 scale RC kit based on an existing Porsche 961 Tamiya already has in 1/24 scale. Very few sponsors on this. A on-road version could be made based on the MF-01X chassis. They must still have this 1/24 scale mould? That would be easy to scale up to 1/12 size and could even use the same box art!

An 1/12 og 1/10 961 would indeed be very nice! And just like the aftermarket decal manufacturer Museum Collection makes 1987 Le Mans Rothmans livery decals for the Tamiya 1/24 961 kit (see below), MCI could make similar stickers for a 1/12 or 1/10 RC 961.

And I'm pretty sure Tamiya still have the 1/24 961 mould. The original kit was released in 1987, but re-released with minimal changes (primarily Cartograf decals) as late as 2011.

That said, a 959 Rally on the MF-01X would be great too. The original body of 58059 is a direct fit on the MF-01X in SWB configuration and with M05Ra uprights (as included in all MF-01X kits so far) touring wheels and touring size Rallyblock tires, ground clearance is at least as good as that of 58059. Frankly, I think the MF-01X is a much better chassis too, although not as fascinating as the chassis of 58059.

Museum Collection 1987 Le Mans Porsche 961 decals:

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Boxart of the Gunze Sangyo 1/24 static kit mentioned in my previous post. (This kit, just like Gunze's roadgoing 959, is based on the 959 Group B prototype and not the 959 production model, so proportions look a bit unfamiliar, but are probably true to the Group B prototype.)

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