Newbie Wants Pumpkin Advice

[biggestkidofall]

hi, just bought an old pumpkin and want to be able to trash the kids new ones, might as well go for broke!

any advice on motor ESC combi's?

[Guest Greg67]

BiggestKkidofall,

Nice to meet you!

From what I am learning lately on here, it seems a lower turn motor and a good esc. I can;t offer great advice, but I am setting something up with a 19T motor, and a futaba mc330cr esc, which can handle down to a 13T motor. I am not sure the limits of the Pumpkin though. That is just an idea. You could always add bearings too, which will make it faster if you haven;t already. And possible oil dampers if they make them for the lunch box, so that it can handle better thank stock.

[axemandavva]

hi, just bought an old pumpkin and want to be able to trash the kids new ones, might as well go for broke!

any advice on motor ESC combi's?

If the truck doesn`t have ball bearings, fit them first. It doesn`t take long to strip and rebuild the gearbox and it`s a cheap upgrade to do.

A pumpkin is never going to handle well. I would suggest something like a sport tuned motor which should work ok with the standard gearing. If the truck has the old mechanical speed controller and it works well I wouldn`t rush to fit an ESC. I like the old mechanical speedos in pumkins and lunchboxes, you can kick them from forward to reverse with no delay (some ESC`s have a delayed reverse function) which is better for wheelies and J turns and the kind of bashing they`re great at.

[knotty]

If the truck doesn`t have ball bearings, fit them first. It doesn`t take long to strip and rebuild the gearbox and it`s a cheap upgrade to do.

A pumpkin is never going to handle well. I would suggest something like a sport tuned motor which should work ok with the standard gearing. If the truck has the old mechanical speed controller and it works well I wouldn`t rush to fit an ESC. I like the old mechanical speedos in pumkins and lunchboxes, you can kick them from forward to reverse with no delay (some ESC`s have a delayed reverse function) which is better for wheelies and J turns and the kind of bashing they`re great at.

This. Lunchboxes and Pumpkins are fun trucks not racers really and don't have the set up to cope with faster motors to be honest. Both of mine had sport tuneds in and the standard teu101bk esc`s and they were plenty fast enough for some really good laughs round the park.They jump nice as well

[biggestkidofall]

If the truck doesn`t have ball bearings, fit them first. It doesn`t take long to strip and rebuild the gearbox and it`s a cheap upgrade to do.

A pumpkin is never going to handle well. I would suggest something like a sport tuned motor which should work ok with the standard gearing. If the truck has the old mechanical speed controller and it works well I wouldn`t rush to fit an ESC. I like the old mechanical speedos in pumkins and lunchboxes, you can kick them from forward to reverse with no delay (some ESC`s have a delayed reverse function) which is better for wheelies and J turns and the kind of bashing they`re great at.

many thanks to all help, is there a limit to the std mechanical controllers current ?

[axemandavva]

many thanks to all help, is there a limit to the std mechanical controllers current ?

I don`t know of an official limit, and although it is probably not recomended I have run some rather nasty brushed motors off a mechanical speedo in the past. I`ve noticed a few things that can happen:

When your battery starts to go flat you may find the servos stop working and you lose control of the car while the motor still moves it rather quickly. This can happen with any motor and mechanical speed controller (MSC) when the receiver is also powered from the drive battery - it`s not a big problem because you soon learn when the battery is dying and it is time to stop driving. The difference is when it`s a silver can motor running out of control on a near flat battery the car can be much easier to catch then when it`s a 12turn double.

The MSC may get too hot and cook a little, and unsolder a wire. This you can usually repair by soldering it back on. The resistor may overheat and break, but this can also be replaced. These old MSCs are pretty simple, so you can usually repair them. If you cook an electronic speed controller (ESC) it`s game over. I`ve read here that a lot of people run the tamiya kit ESC`s with motors which are hotter then they are rated for, and rely on the ESC thermal cutout to protect them. This can work, but it is risky. I deal with a lot of cars and in the last year I can think of three or four occasions where a tamiya TEU ESC was totally killed by an overratted motor (usually by mates who didn`t listen to advice!).

The standard 7.2v tamiya battery connector can melt and fuse (especially if the contacts are a little corroded or dirty). When you have super hot motors you probably should to switch to deans connectors or some other type of plug that can handle the extra current. However as a general rule I would suggest - if you`re melting a tamiya battery connector you`re running a motor which is too hot for a tamiya MSC

The MSC is a three speed controller. With hot motors sometimes I notice speeds 1 and 2 are much too slow but full power is still silly as expected. I`m not sure why this is exactly. I think in some cases it`s because the motor is overgeared - but it`s probably more to do with the resistor being too strong for high revving lower wind motors which have less torque. Maybe somebody out there can explain this to me!

[biggestkidofall]

I don`t know of an official limit, and although it is probably not recomended I have run some rather nasty brushed motors off a mechanical speedo in the past. I`ve noticed a few things that can happen:

When your battery starts to go flat you may find the servos stop working and you lose control of the car while the motor still moves it rather quickly. This can happen with any motor and mechanical speed controller (MSC) when the receiver is also powered from the drive battery - it`s not a big problem because you soon learn when the battery is dying and it is time to stop driving. The difference is when it`s a silver can motor running out of control on a near flat battery the car can be much easier to catch then when it`s a 12turn double.

The MSC may get too hot and cook a little, and unsolder a wire. This you can usually repair by soldering it back on. The resistor may overheat and break, but this can also be replaced. These old MSCs are pretty simple, so you can usually repair them. If you cook an electronic speed controller (ESC) it`s game over. I`ve read here that a lot of people run the tamiya kit ESC`s with motors which are hotter then they are rated for, and rely on the ESC thermal cutout to protect them. This can work, but it is risky. I deal with a lot of cars and in the last year I can think of three or four occasions where a tamiya TEU ESC was totally killed by an overratted motor (usually by mates who didn`t listen to advice!).

The standard 7.2v tamiya battery connector can melt and fuse (especially if the contacts are a little corroded or dirty). When you have super hot motors you probably should to switch to deans connectors or some other type of plug that can handle the extra current. However as a general rule I would suggest - if you`re melting a tamiya battery connector you`re running a motor which is too hot for a tamiya MSC

The MSC is a three speed controller. With hot motors sometimes I notice speeds 1 and 2 are much too slow but full power is still silly as expected. I`m not sure why this is exactly. I think in some cases it`s because the motor is overgeared - but it`s probably more to do with the resistor being too strong for high revving lower wind motors which have less torque. Maybe somebody out there can explain this to me!

Thanks very much, i have a bit of electronics experience and it would seem correct that the resistors would need changing to suit the new current demand .

What about BATTERIES? Are they all roughly the same or is there an advantage to some pricier versions of the same capacity, was thinking of running 4 3800mah with a 2hr charger.

Many thanks again for everyones answers, hope to be able to pass on my experiences later.

[axemandavva]

Thanks very much, i have a bit of electronics experience and it would seem correct that the resistors would need changing to suit the new current demand .

What about BATTERIES? Are they all roughly the same or is there an advantage to some pricier versions of the same capacity, was thinking of running 4 3800mah with a 2hr charger.

Many thanks again for everyones answers, hope to be able to pass on my experiences later.

With batteries I can`t really help much. I`ve not bought any new batteries in years, so I can`t comment on the quality of what`s on offer out there at the moment.

The obvious thing to say (which with electronics experience you will know ... however a lot of people don`t realise this) is that larger capacity batteries don`t make a car any faster, they just increase the run time and charge time. (With Nicads I remember the opposite used to be true infact, some lower capacity batteries could deliver a little more punch which you`d notice racing 2wd buggies - however this was about 15 years ago).

Lipo batteries give superior performance. I`ve never used them, but from what I`ve heard they can be a little fragile and they`re more expensive as you need a special charger and an ESC with a Lipo cutoff (because running them flat will kill them).

Nicad or NiMH batteries you should run them completely flat each use and store them discharged for maximum life. Charge them when they`re cold and when they`re warm they are ready.

[Jonny Retro]

Re "official" limit on an MSC ... I'm not aware of one, but I think the Bigwig had the most power put through the standard Tamiya MSC in stock form - the Technigold motor was 21 turns, and the recommended battery was 8.4v ... I would think that was pretty close to burnout tbh - the most I've ever used was 1) 9.6v on a 27T motor (definite burning smells) and 2) a 19T motor on 7.v (discoloring of the contacts and solder). The Clod & Super Clod run two 27 turn motors (so equivalent to a 13.5 turn motor) - but that MSC is much chunkier... even so it wears fast.

Newer, higher capacity batteries (as has been said) won't make the car go any faster, but in general they are capable of delivering more current - and, or more relevance, for much longer - the heat buildup in a 8-10 minute run on an old 1300mah Nicad is obviously far less than for the 25+ minutes on a modern 3800mah pack.

Overall, I'd say unless your pumpkin is going to stay on the shelf and you want it to look as original as possible, not buying an ESC is a bit foolish IMO.

[mike_o]

Overall, I'd say unless your pumpkin is going to stay on the shelf and you want it to look as original as possible, not buying an ESC is a bit foolish IMO.

Hear, hear!

This is 2010, and the benefits of ESCs are just too overwhelming. If you're getting a standard Tamiya TEU-101 or -104 off Ebay, it is so cheap you can fry it and replace it without blinking. A Sport Tuned motor with a LiPo battery is major step up the power ladder compared to a stock 540 on NiMh.

[axemandavva]

Hear, hear!

This is 2010, and the benefits of ESCs are just too overwhelming. If you're getting a standard Tamiya TEU-101 or -104 off Ebay, it is so cheap you can fry it and replace it without blinking. A Sport Tuned motor with a LiPo battery is major step up the power ladder compared to a stock 540 on NiMh.

You have more disposable income then I do!

If I was fitting an ESC to a pumpkin I`d choose one which kicks straight into reverse as it suits the stunt vehicle nature of it a bit more. I don`t think the TEU speedos do this.

[TA-Mark]

You have more disposable income then I do!

If I was fitting an ESC to a pumpkin I`d choose one which kicks straight into reverse as it suits the stunt vehicle nature of it a bit more. I don`t think the TEU speedos do this.

For someone with little disposable income your idea of an ESC that operates like a MSC or a boat ESC is mightly rough on the gearbox. Replacing gearsets gets hard on the hip pocket too. Car ESCs have a reverse lockout feature to protect the gearbox and won't change into reverse until the vehicle has come to a stop (or almost to a stop when you get the hang of it).

If you want something that "suits the stunt vehicle nature a bit more", bolt in a high powered brushless. It'll then do standing backflips, or lift into a wheelstand at 40km/h with the slightlest tickle of the throttle, or lay the hugest roosts in the dirt.

[axemandavva]

For someone with little disposable income your idea of an ESC that operates like a MSC or a boat ESC is mightly rough on the gearbox. Replacing gearsets gets hard on the hip pocket too. Car ESCs have a reverse lockout feature to protect the gearbox and won't change into reverse until the vehicle has come to a stop (or almost to a stop when you get the hang of it).

If you want something that "suits the stunt vehicle nature a bit more", bolt in a high powered brushless. It'll then do standing backflips, or lift into a wheelstand at 40km/h with the slightlest tickle of the throttle, or lay the hugest roosts in the dirt.

You`d do well to break a pumpkin gearbox with a sport tuned motor by switching from forward to reverse doing skid turns, but I agree it`s a risk. Pumpkin gear sets are a lot cheaper then new ESC`s tho!

A high powered brushless could break the differential or strip the gears very quickly. At 40km/h it would be more of a crash vehicle then a stunt vehicle - hit a kerb and it`d break something. Try and steer and it`d flip over and over. It would be fun for a few minutes.

[TA-Mark]

You`d do well to break a pumpkin gearbox with a sport tuned motor by switching from forward to reverse doing skid turns, but I agree it`s a risk. Pumpkin gear sets are a lot cheaper then new ESC`s tho!

A high powered brushless could break the differential or strip the gears very quickly. At 40km/h it would be more of a crash vehicle then a stunt vehicle - hit a kerb and it`d break something. Try and steer and it`d flip over and over. It would be fun for a few minutes.

It doesn't break the gearbox with a brushless, it doesn't even wear the pinion gear. A brushless has no magnetic lop dragging on the gears when you back off. I've been running mine with a MambaMax 5700Kv system for over 2 years now, the only thing I've broken is the bodyset, and that was only from attempting to jump it (silly size big jumps that were setup for the HPI Savage). I'd suggest a lexan bodyset for the fun stuff and keep the hard body in good condition for when it's not being driven and sitting on the shelf.

You also have no problem doing a 'skid turn' by using the brakes, locking up the rear wheels solid (with only 60% brake power set), flicking the steering, then powering on again, and it will do it on tarmac even. It's does not require a boat ESC (or MSC) to do a skid turn.

Just because it's capable of doing 40km/h and standing into a wheelie doesn't mean you do it. Any moron knows you don't try and steer any RC car at 40km/h (or more) as it's not going to turn, either understeer or grip roll over. Common driving sense prevails, brake in a straight line, then turn. The idea is NOT to hit curbs, it'll break even at silvercan speeds (Usually busts the centre out of a front wheel).

The Lunchbox/Pumpkin would be my second most driven vehicle behind the Grasshopper (which has the same rear gearbox incidentally) and it has a 4600Kv MambaMax in it. I drive ALOT, more in 1 week than some drive in a year!

I tried a standard silvercan, then a Dirt Tuned, then a Sport Tuned, then a Super Stock, then a 19turn mod... all were boring. The chassis didn't get exciting until I bolted in the brushless.

[axemandavva]

It doesn't break the gearbox with a brushless, it doesn't even wear the pinion gear. A brushless has no magnetic lop dragging on the gears when you back off. I've been running mine with a MambaMax 5700Kv system for over 2 years now, the only thing I've broken is the bodyset, and that was only from attempting to jump it (silly size big jumps that were setup for the HPI Savage). I'd suggest a lexan bodyset for the fun stuff and keep the hard body in good condition for when it's not being driven and sitting on the shelf.

You also have no problem doing a 'skid turn' by using the brakes, locking up the rear wheels solid (with only 60% brake power set), flicking the steering, then powering on again, and it will do it on tarmac even. It's does not require a boat ESC (or MSC) to do a skid turn.

Just because it's capable of doing 40km/h and standing into a wheelie doesn't mean you do it. Any moron knows you don't try and steer any RC car at 40km/h (or more) as it's not going to turn, either understeer or grip roll over. Common driving sense prevails, brake in a straight line, then turn. The idea is NOT to hit curbs, it'll break even at silvercan speeds (Usually busts the centre out of a front wheel).

The Lunchbox/Pumpkin would be my second most driven vehicle behind the Grasshopper (which has the same rear gearbox incidentally) and it has a 4600Kv MambaMax in it. I drive ALOT, more in 1 week than some drive in a year!

I tried a standard silvercan, then a Dirt Tuned, then a Sport Tuned, then a Super Stock, then a 19turn mod... all were boring. The chassis didn't get exciting until I bolted in the brushless.

In my experience the more powerful the motor, the greater the chance the gearbox could be damaged - brushless or not. I agree brushless motors are kinder because they`re smooth.

I agree you can do skid turns with ESCs using the brakes. I`m not saying an ESC is a bad idea, my point is that if you have an MSC that works well there are some things you can do with it that you can`t do with some ESCs. Personally I enjoy Pumpkins with MSC or ESC that don`t have a brake circuit and a less powerful motor - but then I tend to drive in smaller spaces. I would consider an ESC a nice to have rather then a must have for somebody who is new to RC, and for somebody who is learning to drive a delayed reverse action could become annoying.

I think a brushless lunchbox would be big ask for a new driver to handle. Maybe if you have wide open soft spaces - but driving in the street flips and crashes would be inevitable. There`s less chance the wallet will feel it with a sport tuned. Does that make me a moron?

As I understand you can turn the power down and revs down on brushless systems to tune them to the car and your talent level - but to me it makes more sense to enjoy the car out of the box then spend the money later when you know what direction you want to go in.

I know a few people who love mega performance in chassis like the grasshopper or lunchbox. I think they`re generally a little bit crazy and a lot more fun then me at parties.

[biggestkidofall]

In my experience the more powerful the motor, the greater the chance the gearbox could be damaged - brushless or not. I agree brushless motors are kinder because they`re smooth.

I agree you can do skid turns with ESCs using the brakes. I`m not saying an ESC is a bad idea, my point is that if you have an MSC that works well there are some things you can do with it that you can`t do with some ESCs. Personally I enjoy Pumpkins with MSC or ESC that don`t have a brake circuit and a less powerful motor - but then I tend to drive in smaller spaces. I would consider an ESC a nice to have rather then a must have for somebody who is new to RC, and for somebody who is learning to drive a delayed reverse action could become annoying.

I think a brushless lunchbox would be big ask for a new driver to handle. Maybe if you have wide open soft spaces - but driving in the street flips and crashes would be inevitable. There`s less chance the wallet will feel it with a sport tuned. Does that make me a moron?

As I understand you can turn the power down and revs down on brushless systems to tune them to the car and your talent level - but to me it makes more sense to enjoy the car out of the box then spend the money later when you know what direction you want to go in.

I know a few people who love mega performance in chassis like the grasshopper or lunchbox. I think they`re generally a little bit crazy and a lot more fun then me at parties.

Again thanks to all, OK LETS HAVE YOUR RECOMMENDED COMBIS... I want something that will still steer and not wheelie everywhere but i am going to weight the front end a bit anyway, i have the original model with 3spd MSC £50 to spend

[axemandavva]

Again thanks to all, OK LETS HAVE YOUR RECOMMENDED COMBIS... I want something that will still steer and not wheelie everywhere but i am going to weight the front end a bit anyway, i have the original model with 3spd MSC £50 to spend

I`m nervous about suggesting anything incase I get flamed some more.

If you are going to get an ESC consider going the whole way and getting a brushless motor and ESC combi. Brushless is the future, the motors are much more reliable - but you need a special ESC for them. You can always transfer the system to future cars. From what I know EzRun brushless systems are some of the cheapest, you might get one for close to your budget. I`ve read and heard good things about them, and some bad things. Some of my mates use them for bashers but I`ve never had one myself. (If you look at brushless combis on ebay take care to ensure they`re for 1/10 scale RC cars and trucks and not 1/18).

A tamiya sport tuned motor and a tamiya TEU 101BK (or 104BK) ESC should give decent peformance for a pumpkin.

There are other brushed ESCs in the £20 to £30 price bracket which will handle lower turns then the tamiya one, and other makes of motor which are also cheaper - so for the same money you can go faster. I don`t have enough experience of these to confidently suggest anything.

Ansmann do a whole range of cheap 540 size motors with different winds, I`ve had a couple of used ones in runners and they seem ok. They`re sealed units without serviceable brushes so quite "budget" - but they are cheap at less then £10 each.

Fit ball bearings before a new motor, especially if you go brushless.

[biggestkidofall]

I`m nervous about suggesting anything incase I get flamed some more.

If you are going to get an ESC consider going the whole way and getting a brushless motor and ESC combi. Brushless is the future, the motors are much more reliable - but you need a special ESC for them. You can always transfer the system to future cars. From what I know EzRun brushless systems are some of the cheapest, you might get one for close to your budget. I`ve read and heard good things about them, and some bad things. Some of my mates use them for bashers but I`ve never had one myself. (If you look at brushless combis on ebay take care to ensure they`re for 1/10 scale RC cars and trucks and not 1/18).

A tamiya sport tuned motor and a tamiya TEU 101BK (or 104BK) ESC should give decent peformance for a pumpkin.

There are other brushed ESCs in the £20 to £30 price bracket which will handle lower turns then the tamiya one, and other makes of motor which are also cheaper - so for the same money you can go faster. I don`t have enough experience of these to confidently suggest anything.

Ansmann do a whole range of cheap 540 size motors with different winds, I`ve had a couple of used ones in runners and they seem ok. They`re sealed units without serviceable brushes so quite "budget" - but they are cheap at less then £10 each.

Fit ball bearings before a new motor, especially if you go brushless.

I tried an ansmann 18 this morning and it had amazing speed when 3rd clicks in it just goes sideways. Nipped back to the shop (kings lynn models) and bought a 21, bit better for shorter runs...

I need the snow to melt so i can try it on some proper ground, also went to my local car tyre shop and got some sticky weights to try and balance the old gal. I have also tried a mod of my own for the 3rd shock set up on the rear. I used a couple of 'o'rings placed round the axle mounts and then secured them to the battery tray, a little experimental twisting of them to give some tension and hey presto the front mount sits in the middle of the slots with no banging during accel/decel.

[berman]

Bearings, always fit bearings first to any RC.

Lunchbox/Pumpkin has brass pinion so no need to recommend steel one.

If it has an MSC in good condition and you are only going for a sport tuned or technigold, leave it in there. All it requires is a very small amount maintenence with a bit of switch lube and balloon or lexan cover (depending on the RC).

All you have to remember is not to drive it completely flat or full throttle when flat so the MSC switch can return to centre, it's not rocket science. If people struggle with MSC's, then god help them with LiPo's.

If you dont like a very small amount of maintenence like wiping the switch blade of an MSC with rag and putting a bit of sitch lube on it every 6 months then get an ESC.

If you want to run Lithium Polymer batteries, then an ESC is the way to go, why? because LiPo batteries make no difference on an MSC, but even on a TEU101BK (standard tamiya esc) with it's 60amp continuous current, a Lipo

battery makes a huge difference (obviously depending on the C rating) to even small brushed motor's.

I had a 3300kv brushless in my Lunchbox and took it out, it is now replaced with a Sport tuned, TEU101BK and 7.4V LiPo and is my favourite basher