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mutationracer

Brushless Sand Scorcher/ Buggy Champ/ Rough Rider

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On the Castle setup software you can limit the top end. It's not on the main setup page, but how you adjust the throttle curve on the middle tab. Set it to "point" then put a single point at the far right hand side making the angle of the line less steep. This makes the top end slower. In this way you can make the Castle slower than a silvercan if you feel the need with the benefit of longer runtime from the more efficient system and a sealed motor. About 2/3 to 3/4 the way up the right hand side is about right for an SRB. I set nearly every model in this way to match the chassis type.

That would be great if Castle supported Apple Mac computers. But they don't. So I can't really program my Sidewinder without it being a PITA!

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OK so I found the links for the Castle Creations PC ESC programming application ;-

http://www.castlecreations.com/downloads.html

and

http://www.castlecreations.com/support/faq...tml#castlelink4

methinks this is going to take a lot of reading before I understand how the RPM is turned down! I'll report back when I understand it LOL

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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I put my details in, downloaded the Castle PC link application, and was able to run the app' in demo mode without connecting to the ESC. I chose the Sidewinder Micro to "connect" to in the demo mode.

Finally by clicking on the Throttle Curve tab I can see that Mark is quite right, you can alter the throttle and (if I am understanding this correctly) turn down the maximum RPM i.e. reduce the maximum amount of modulation that is given to the ESC i.e. the pulse width of the PWM throttle signal, so that e.g. you can have 80 per cent of the motor's RPM reached with 100 per cent throttle stick forwards travel from neutral.

Pictures attached below to show it. NOTE that in the second picture I have limted the RPM, and the response is still linear. I do have to wonder what it does with that last 2 per cent of throttle travel, where I can't seem to stop the graph from going straight up to max. RPM!!?? :rolleyes: In that case I would change the ATV after programming the ESC so as to only get 95 per cent travel LOL.

Sounds great. Now to price up a Castle Sidewinder Micro ESC...

I picked the Sidewinder Micro as it, according to what I have read, "can handle about 30A continuous, and peaks of about 50-60A", which is similar to my Turnigy (well sort of, the Turnigy's resistance is quoted as being 3x lower and it does 35A continuous and 190A on bursts), and of course I am a cheapskate so I picked the cheap one.

One thing that I just noticed in the user manual for "all" of Castle Creations' ESC's, that I don't like, is where it says "Your Castle ESC is programmed to sound a tone every thirty seconds to remind you that it is still powered." Sounds irritating to me!

OK so the cheapest I found the Sidewinder Micro ESC for was 60 quid delivered from a UK seller (not in stock, WheelSpin models), or 38 quid plus 10 quid postage (plus 8.50 GBP Royal Mail Parcel Farce Clearance Fee, plus 20 per cent VAT) from Ebay from USA (NO HK sellers as is to be expected of course). So about 60 quid no matter how I get one.

And if I buy a Castle motor to go with it, they either have kV figures way above 3000, or are as expensive or even more expensive than the ESC itself! About the 45 GBP (high kV) to 70 GBP (low kV starting price).

So that's me out, I can't afford to spend that much to dip my toe in the new waters of brushless Scorchers.

Just wish I could get my hands on ORCA's 2200kV motor that seems to be near ideal for my purposes, allowing me to retain the motor cover, but despite extensive searching I can't find them for sale anywhere. I'll probably end up ordering the HobbyWing 13T motor.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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One more other thing about the Castle Creations ESC's ;- In the "Drivers Ed" instruction manual that covers the whole range, there is no mention of whether any of the Castle ESC's can do the "double click" control for reverse that I prefer, and there is no option that I found to enable that behaviour in the Castle PC Link app' ?

Hopefully Mark will no doubt know the answer to this. If it does do Double-Click reverse then I may try and get one second hand on Ebay at a low price to try one.

Just noticed also that when looking in the manual for all of the Castle ESC's there is NO mention of LiFe (Lithium Ferrite) / LiFePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) battery support, and I wanted to use them. However in the PC link app., although you can only adjust the "Auto Lipo" Cut Off down to 3.0V per cell, you can have a "Custom Cut" off set to e.g. 5.0V as the total battery voltage cut off, which should work fine for LiFe batteries.

Cheers,

ARG

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That last instant of throttle position is still 100% when you've adjusted the curve lower. You can either adjust the EPA of the transmitter so that 100% is never reached or have good trigger control. Leaving the EPA at 100%, it works like a turbo (think Tyco Turbo Jet Hopper). I usually leave the EPA on 100% as I like the 'turbo' for that extra burst of speed once you're already moving pretty quick.

The Sidewinder Micro is for the 200 size can series motors for 1:18 scale and not recommended to be used with 540 size can motors.

One more other thing about the Castle Creations ESC's ;- In the "Drivers Ed" instruction manual that covers the whole range, there is no mention of whether any of the Castle ESC's can do the "double click" control for reverse that I prefer, and there is no option that I found to enable that behaviour in the Castle PC Link app' ?

Hopefully Mark will no doubt know the answer to this. If it does do Double-Click reverse then I may try and get one second hand on Ebay at a low price to try one.

This is the top setting on the main setup page. Toggles between: Forward<->Brake<->Reverse (no lockout); Forward<->Brakes<->Reverse (with lockout to reverse, or double tap as you call it); and Forward<->Brakes (reverse disabled).

Just noticed also that when looking in the manual for all of the Castle ESC's there is NO mention of LiFe (Lithium Ferrite) / LiFePo4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate) battery support, and I wanted to use them. However in the PC link app., although you can only adjust the "Auto Lipo" Cut Off down to 3.0V per cell, you can have a "Custom Cut" off set to e.g. 5.0V as the total battery voltage cut off, which should work fine for LiFe batteries.

The low voltage cutoff is adjustable in increments of 0.1v (put the dropdown menu on custom first), then type in anything you want. I use 6.2v for my 7.4v 2S Li-Po packs and 7.7v for my 9.9v 3S A123 (Li-FE) packs.

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That last instant of throttle position is still 100% when you've adjusted the curve lower. You can either adjust the EPA of the transmitter so that 100% is never reached or have good trigger control. Leaving the EPA at 100%, it works like a turbo (think Tyco Turbo Jet Hopper). I usually leave the EPA on 100% as I like the 'turbo' for that extra burst of speed once you're already moving pretty quick.

The Sidewinder Micro is for the 200 size can series motors for 1:18 scale and not recommended to be used with 540 size can motors.

This is the top setting on the main setup page. Toggles between: Forward<->Brake<->Reverse (no lockout); Forward<->Brakes<->Reverse (with lockout to reverse, or double tap as you call it); and Forward<->Brakes (reverse disabled).

The low voltage cutoff is adjustable in increments of 0.1v (put the dropdown menu on custom first), then type in anything you want. I use 6.2v for my 7.4v 2S Li-Po packs and 7.7v for my 9.9v 3S A123 (Li-FE) packs.

Hehe I like the Jet Hopper Turbo idea on the throttle LOL

I was thinking that since the Sidewinder Micro is rated to 30 Amp's continuous, and more on bursts, that it would handle the 380 rotor sized motors with fins and 3650 (540) size cans? Since e.g. the 13T HobbyWing with 3650 sized can and 380 rotor (and 3000kV) draws 32 Amps at the most according to the HW data sheet?

I'd probably just try and get a SideWinder V2 second hand though for a little more headroom on the Amps.

I can't find the setting that you mention for reverse in the PC Link app. but I did find a section that says "Reverse Type" which is on the Basic tab, and you can enable reverse there, BUT it does say in the help for the PC Link that "With Reverse : ... The controller must see 2 seconds of steady neutral throttle before it will allow reverse operation" ;) Now that sucks. A huge reverse delay that you can't alter. With the Tamiya TEU101BK and TEU302BK and Futaba MC330CR, they had the "Double Click" for reverse, but with NO delay at all once the buggy has stopped moving. That's what I wanted from a brushless ESC. It'd be just my luck if this Turnigy one has a delay on it...

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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I did find one other setting in the PC Link called "Crawler reverse" which says that it is "Similar to lockout type, but no neutral waiting required before reverse is enabled. The controller will quickly brake the motor to near zero rpm, before allowing it to run in the opposite direction in order to save transmission parts."

What it doesn't mention is whether this "Crawler Reverse" mode is a "Double Click" type of reverse? Otherwise it sounds like the control on my Novak Rooster ESC, where you pull back once from partial throttle to brakes region of the TX stick, and the car slows down and then just before it stops it goes straight into reverse with zero delay, which I hated because I could not hold the brakes on ;) . LOL.

Any info on what this "Crawler Reverse" mode is like Mark? Is this mode "Double Click" style also?

Thanks for your help so far :( ,

Alistair G.

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I think you are making assumptions on what you are reading instead of how it works. As I already stated there are 3 modes.

Forward<->Brakes (reverse disabled)

Forward<->Brakes<->Reverse (no reverse lockout - you just called this crawler mode - reverse engages soon as the vehicle comes to a stop)

Forward<->Brakes<->Reverse (with reverse lockout - default setting)

I can confirm that the reverse lockout setting (default setting) works in exactly the same manner as a Tamiya TEU101-BK ESC. Once the car has come to a complete stop, then you relax the throttle back to neutral, then the next movement to the brakes/reverse will engage reverse. I've never had mine have a 2 second wait. If I continue to hold brakes without relaxing to neutral the ESC stays in brake mode.

I would highly recommend using a 1:10 Sidewinder, or if you must use one of the 1:18 ESCs then use the 'Pro' version which has a casing and heatsink. The 1:18 Sidewinder looks very similar to small plane ESC and has no heatsink or hard case. It's just a PCB wrapped in heavy shrink with wires exiting both ends.

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Thanks Mark. Excellent info, excellent presentation. Just what I needed.

I'll see if I can get a Sidewinder ESC second hand (about all I can afford right now).

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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I think you are making assumptions on what you are reading instead of how it works. As I already stated there are 3 modes.

Forward<->Brakes (reverse disabled)

Forward<->Brakes<->Reverse (no reverse lockout - you just called this crawler mode - reverse engages soon as the vehicle comes to a stop)

Forward<->Brakes<->Reverse (with reverse lockout - default setting)

I can confirm that the reverse lockout setting (default setting) works in exactly the same manner as a Tamiya TEU101-BK ESC. Once the car has come to a complete stop, then you relax the throttle back to neutral, then the next movement to the brakes/reverse will engage reverse. I've never had mine have a 2 second wait. If I continue to hold brakes without relaxing to neutral the ESC stays in brake mode.

I would highly recommend using a 1:10 Sidewinder, or if you must use one of the 1:18 ESCs then use the 'Pro' version which has a casing and heatsink. The 1:18 Sidewinder looks very similar to small plane ESC and has no heatsink or hard case. It's just a PCB wrapped in heavy shrink with wires exiting both ends.

well mark you have me convinced . when funds allow my champs getting a sidewinder . the chance to fine tune it is too good to miss . Ball diff is on its way BTW . The slipper clutch looks like too much hassel for now so i'll see how it works out first .

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Ball diff is on its way BTW . The slipper clutch looks like too much hassel for now so i'll see how it works out first .

or more precisely, you are waiting for me to try it first lol!!

Trouble is, i'm waiting for you ;)

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or more precisely, you are waiting for me to try it first lol!!

Trouble is, i'm waiting for you ;)

dont hold your breath lol After todays miss hap i'am keeping it simple. BTW paul l the polisher rang today . Hes too much work on till the new year to be able to help just now but hes looking at around £80 just to polish . Thats too rich for me so i'll invest in a demmel and have a go myself .

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Guys, I don't mean to hijack the thread or anything, but is there anyone who'd volunteer to do the shaft-mod required for the slipper clutch installation for me? ;)

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Guys, I don't mean to hijack the thread or anything, but is there anyone who'd volunteer to do the shaft-mod required for the slipper clutch installation for me? :(

errrrrrrrrrrrrrr no ;) i'am still trying to figure out for myself how the heck to do one lol

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well from what I understand it basicly involves drilling a hole in the shaft, to enter a 2x10mm crosspin, and then you might need to tap it for a screw to hold the slipper clutch spring assembly..?

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well from what I understand it basicly involves drilling a hole in the shaft, to enter a 2x10mm crosspin, and then you might need to tap it for a screw to hold the slipper clutch spring assembly..?

sounds easy but have you ever tried drilling a true hole in round bar ? trust me with out a proper drill press its vitually impossiable and if its harded steel forget it

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Exactly, that's why I was asking if there was someone on here who had successfully drilled it, who could assist.

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Exactly, that's why I was asking if there was someone on here who had successfully drilled it, who could assist.

No drilling required! A little grinding is all. Easiest done with a Dremel, or a Dremel substitute (why pay for a name? There are identical tools for sale from other brands for under $50)

Grind flats on the SRB mainshaft so it looks like a DF03 mainshaft, but don't make them so long that the inner pressure plate can touch the bearing. Grind some from the inside of the inner pressure plate so the slipper will sit closer to the gearbox casing. Replace the old spur holding screw with a longer screw of the same thread. The screw must be done up tight into the shaft. Cut the longer screw at the right length so there is almost the right pressure on the slipper spring. Fine tune the pressure on the slipper spring by using shims.

I recommend NOT doing this mod! The ratios are better for hot motors or brushless when using the kit supplied steel 0.6 module 15 tooth pinion and the kit spur gear. And the gear cover DOES NOT FIT over the slipper assembly.

On the subject of polishing the SRB components, 95% of the polishing is done by hand with wet and dry sandpaper (600 to 1500 grit) to remove imperfections and gain a flat surface. The last 5% is done with an aluminium polishing paste (eg: Alusol, or any number of brands for doing 1:1 car wheels) and this can also be done by hand (or with a Dremel that doesn't have an expensive name). The final buffing process to gain a high gloss is best done with said non-Dremel grinding tool.

How to drill a cross hole in a round shaft (not needed to fit a slipper clutch to a SRB):

First use said non-Dremel grinding tool to make a flat where the hole should start (can also be done with the edge of a flat b*stard file). Next, use a centre punch and hammer to leave a pinprick where the hole should start. Fit the shaft into a vice mounted on a drill press and then drill through the shaft. Use some kind of coolant (engine oil if you have nothing else)!

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No drilling required! A little grinding is all. Easiest done with a Dremel, or a Dremel substitute (why pay for a name? There are identical tools for sale from other brands for under $50)

Grind flats on the SRB mainshaft so it looks like a DF03 mainshaft, but don't make them so long that the inner pressure plate can touch the bearing. Grind some from the inside of the inner pressure plate so the slipper will sit closer to the gearbox casing. Replace the old spur holding screw with a longer screw of the same thread. The screw must be done up tight into the shaft. Cut the longer screw at the right length so there is almost the right pressure on the slipper spring. Fine tune the pressure on the slipper spring by using shims.

I recommend NOT doing this mod! The ratios are better for hot motors or brushless when using the kit supplied steel 0.6 module 15 tooth pinion and the kit spur gear. And the gear cover DOES NOT FIT over the slipper assembly.

On the subject of polishing the SRB components, 95% of the polishing is done by hand with wet and dry sandpaper (600 to 1500 grit) to remove imperfections and gain a flat surface. The last 5% is done with an aluminium polishing paste (eg: Alusol, or any number of brands for doing 1:1 car wheels) and this can also be done by hand (or with a Dremel that doesn't have an expensive name). The final buffing process to gain a high gloss is best done with said non-Dremel grinding tool.

How to drill a cross hole in a round shaft (not needed to fit a slipper clutch to a SRB):

First use said non-Dremel grinding tool to make a flat where the hole should start (can also be done with the edge of a flat b*stard file). Next, use a centre punch and hammer to leave a pinprick where the hole should start. Fit the shaft into a vice mounted on a drill press and then drill through the shaft. Use some kind of coolant (engine oil if you have nothing else)!

Cheers Mark for clearing this mod up . I'll NOT be attempting it for sure now , even though i have the tools and skills to do it . I think that in my case mostly running on hard surfaces that the ball diff will be just fine with a well set up castle motor . If i want to go beach bashing in the summer its easy enough to swap out the ball diff or even build another std box and swap out the whole rear end . Many thanks for the very clear 'how to' .

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I finally got the money together to order a Brushless motor for my Scorcher. I ordered the HobbyWing type, 13T 3000kV motor from GiantCod ;-

http://www.giantcod.co.uk/ezrun-3000kv-bus...r-p-403299.html

...be aware that the motor that I received was NOT Hobbywing branded, it was instead Keda branded (apparently). It arrived in a clear plastic thin walled soft product box, with foam padding inside the box, the motor was quite well protected. The motor itself has nothing written on it whatsoever that I could see, on any metal surface. The box end only had a small sticker on it saying C40/13T 3000kV, and it was the receipt that said Keda, that's how I learned that I had been conned (IMHO). The website for my motor is ;-

http://www.kedamodel.com/product/c40.html

...and my motor is a 3650 can size with 380 sized diameter rotor, if not 380 length of rotor (maybe longer i.e. "540" length rotor, so more torque than a 380 brushless then) and deep cooling fins within the can, so can diameter is still 36mm. No sticker on the endbell of my motor.

I really wanted the 2200kV 380 core sized (3650 can size) motor that was announced by ORCAQ but alas it was impossible to get separately or at a reasonable price... there was only one stockist, in Canada, and it was 120 CAD for the combo with Spark ESC (about 76 GBP before VAT / postage / RMPF Clearance Fee) so that was too expensive for me.

I know that there was a batch of almost identical looking Leopard motors of 3650 can size with 380 sized rotor, 13T 3000kV, where the rotor didn't fly apart (glue bond failed between the 2 magnets) but instead the glue bond (or press / interference fit) failed between the rotor shaft and the rotor magnets, so it just spins with no drive ;-

...so I hope that mine is OK, but I won't know until I try it at the beach at full throttle.

Motor fits perfectly without any alterations at all into the Sand Scorcher 2010 SRB gearcase :) . I did have to file a slot in the motor cover for the 3 wires that exit the motor from the motor's side, very close to the endbell.

I recently got a DT-2234C+ Digital Laser Tachometer, and measured the RPM. I tested the tach. on my Technics record player as it has a Quartz locked feedback system with red optical beam from the record deck. The Tach said 33.3 RPM when I held it about 1 foot away from the LP that I placed on the deck, with a 3mm square self adhesive reflective sticker (several 7 inch approx. stips of the stuff are supplied with the tach.) cut out and stuck down near the edge of the LP record. Can't say fairer than that. Tach reads to 99,999 RPM and is very accurate and with repeatable excellent accuracy.

I measured the RPM of the Keda motor by cutting out a 1" diameter round piece of paper, and sticking on a 3mm square piece of reflective sticker 1/2 of the way towards the edge of the paper, then cutting out the centre and "press fitting" it onto a motor pinion. Later on I would like to use a 1" Meccano pulley to do this so there is no chance of slippage compared to just paper pressed over the pinion.

The Keda C40/13T 3000kV motor revved to a maximum of 25,633 RPM :) @ 7.7V @ 100 per cent ATV on my transmitter (very slight warming, maybe 25 degrees C approx.) when in my SRB gearbox, turning just the gearbox gears and ball diff and wheel axles, but no tyres or wheels on, and motor timing at the default of the ESC (15 degrees) and ESC at default punch ("7").

I measured 25,200 RPM on this Keda motor @ 7.67V when I had turned the timing down from the default ESC setting of 15 degrees, to zero degrees, and set the punch to lowest, this being on my Turnigy 35A Car ESC. Equates to 3286kV if KV is measured at no load. So why is it specified at 3000kV?! That is because it is the KV at Maximum Efficiency that is specified, not at maximum RPM, according to a website forum that I saw at http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27674 .

Later I tested and found the Keda motor to run at 20,340 RPM max. @ 6.62V @ room temperature (18 degrees Celcius) on 5 cells NiMH (again on zero degrees motor timing and lowest punch on the ESC setting). Should do about the same on a 6.6V LiFe(Po4) battery that I just ordered (see later). So slightly less RPM than a Sport Tuned, when the Keda is on 6.6V.

Notice that this is nearly 25 per cent less RPM!!, at getting on for 5,000 RPM lower! So will be maybe 25 or more per cent less power, which will stop the Scorcher being quite so much of an overpowered handful with the 3000kV motor! Thank goodness!

In comparison, a new in box Tamiya / Mabuchi Sport Tuned that I got from Jason in Japan (Ebay) was at 21,160 RPM max. @ 7.8V, running free (i.e. not even in any gearbox), using Tamiya TEU-302BK ESC when I measured only a 0.01V difference between battery output Voltage at no load, and ESC motor wires with no motor connected.

A used Mabuchi RS-540S (old style 540S with black plastic endbell, not newer SH with metal endbell) reached 16,850 RPM max. @ room temp 19 degrees C, 16,920 RPM when slightly warmed from continuous free running (25 degrees c approx), 17,150 RPM hand warm (40 degrees C approx), running free @7.64V

A second used Mabuchi RS-540S reached 17,420 RPM max. when a little warm (30 degrees C approx), running free @7.62V, 17,650 RPM when hand warm (40 degrees C approx), running free @7.62V

The Keda motor came with a 3.5mm internal diameter female gold plated socket on the end of each of the 3 motor wires.

More to come, including pictures of Keda motor.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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I'd have sent it striaght back myself - their website says EZ-Run motor and thats not what you got. If through some research the Keda motor appeared to be superior then perhaps i'd be happy to keep it after telling the retailer of their mis representation..

At the end of the day if you are happy then thats all that matters :)

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I'd have sent it striaght back myself - their website says EZ-Run motor and thats not what you got. If through some research the Keda motor appeared to be superior then perhaps i'd be happy to keep it after telling the retailer of their mis representation..

At the end of the day if you are happy then thats all that matters :)

Yeah LOL I have just sent a message to the store owner expressing my annoyance about being mislead. Although I can't argue with the 18GBP price (!) and the fast shipping and it being in stock and with good reviews LOL.

Just hope it's a good 'un. Will be using it with my newly ordered LiFe 6.6V pack to keep the RPM and power lower!

Cheers,

ARG

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I got rather cheesed off about the very noisy fan in my Turnigy 35A Sensorless Car ESC, so I desoldered it, and fitted another one. Here is a picture showing the 2 connections that you need to desolder, and then a picture of me having taken the +ve wire off (the original fan) and then just having soldered on a new fan back onto the same place as the old fan (see pic's below).

The original fan was noisy because it's receiving the full battery voltage - I measured 7.67V going into the 2 fan wires, and 7.68V from the 6 cells NiMH battery pack I was using at no load, and stock fan is only rated at 5V anyway).

I have since tried the stock fan on 5.8V from 4 AA Alkaline cells (still way too noisy, very high vibration when holding it in my hands), then on 4.8V (NiMH) when it was still noisy and had a lot of vibration, then on 3.6V when it was the first time that it significantly quietened down but I could still feel the horrid vibrations from it. Basically it's terrible quality. The new fan doesn't vibrate and is almost inaudible, even at 7.73V.

I used my 2.3mm angled single faced bit on my Antex TCS50 iron for the small pin on the white plug, and 6.3mm same shaped bit with same iron on the black wire, it heated the huge solder blob up on the -ve battery wire fast without ANY damage to anything, and didn't need ESC disassembly. I used my usual 0.032" diameter 60/40 Tin/Lead Rosin Core solder (part no. 64-005) imported from Radio Shack USA via an Ebay seller, that I use for all these kind of jobs.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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The new fan is an Evercool EC2510M12EA, 25mm x 25mm x 10mm 12V DC fan. See pic's attached.

NOTE that the new fan MUST be mounted in such a way that the bottom section is fixed, and the top section rotates, just like on the old fan. Otherwise if you put it on the wrong way up the bottom will rotate and rub against the capacitor that is trying to stand up when you take the fan off due to the springiness in the cap's legs.

Also make sure to wire it the correct way round (same polarity as the old fan) otherwise the fan will rotate the wrong way. It should be pulling air through the top of the fan and then downwards into the heatsink and then out the sides of the heatsink.

I carefully removed the Turnigy sticker from the old fan with Tamiya's Fine Craft Knife and stuck it onto the new fan.

The new fan is just about completely silent. But it has to be said the rotation speed is nowhere near the same. But then again it's a deeper fan (10mm tall versus the stock fan which is 7mm tall) so probably has more CFM (airflow) than with the old fan. On 6.6V LiFe the fan speed will be lower than on 7.4V LiPo, but then my Keda motor is running 25 per cent slower on 6.6V compared with 7.4V, so will be 25 per cent less power to dissipate and for the heatsink to cope with, I suppose.

Cheers,

ARG

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