4wd Twin Motor - Which One ?

[Percymon]

I can forsee the TXT-1 vs Clodbuster debate already, but to prevent the usual banter..

I'm thinking about a Dual Hunter - can still be bought in UK new for under £150 with the 540 motors and esc.

I'd hope this is a good partner to my three 4WD buggies (Manta Ray, Hotshot and Rising Storm) and my 2WD Blitzer Beetle; none of which have much in the way of ground clearance !

I've no intention of rock crawling anytime soon , so can rule a crawler out straight away (although i love the looks of the green CC-01 Unimog)

Will the Dual Hunter be sufficiently different to the buggies ?? - i'd like something a bit more 'unstable' with more ground clearance, but nothing as unstable as a Pumpkin or LB.

Are there many aftermarket hop-ups for a bit of bling later if I/son want to mod it a touch - dampers,suspension arms, alternative bodies ?

And here's the crunch question...

.. a Clodbuster is £50 more, and i'm not sure i want something of the bulk of the Clod, but is it worth it for general bashing ??

I'm looking for a new build, i've done enough resto's recently.

[SteelRat]

And here's the crunch question...

.. a Clodbuster is £50 more, and i'm not sure i want something of the bulk of the Clod, but is it worth it for general bashing ??

I'm looking for a new build, i've done enough resto's recently.

As much as I love my Clod, I only really love it since doing a few basic mods. Namely a proper 4 link system (hand made), swapping out the awful pogo stick dampers for a set of big bore Traxxas ones, putting in an ESC and converting it to 2WS (2 wheel steering.. locking the rear steer, and increasing the steering throw on the front axle). Some people lock one of the diffs for a bit more rough stuff ability, but I think it's fine as it is. With the exception of the shocks, all of my mods are hand built and don't cost a great deal (and believe me, I'm no accomplished engineer. All done with some sheet aluminium, a hacksaw and a 3mm drill!)

Doing this gives you all the classic Clod looks, without going the whole hog of a custom clod. The big tyres and the bouncy suspension make it a hoot to drive, you get more strength and better flex from the revised suspension set up, and it's a lot more stable in the straights with none of that crab due to slop in the rear end.

[Percymon]

Just seen Traxxas are bringing out a Grave Digger in their monster Jam series - probably sacriledge to mention it here , but with a 12T 550 motor and sealed electrics it might be right up my street.

[kaiser]

the dual hunter (or any of the other twin motor trucks on that platform) have interested me. i have seen a few up close and the drawbacks i see are:

touring car friction shocks

low ground clearance

that being said i know there's shock tower extensions so you can run 4 inch shocks, but it doesn't seem to increase ground clearance much.

i love clods though, stock to wildly modified. you can't go wrong with them, they are tough, the weakpoints of the original clod have been addressed with

the super clod. and as steelrat mentioned there are some mods you can do to it and it won't loose it's cool stock appearance.

clods are a blast and theres not much out there that can compare to them.

[Percymon]

the dual hunter (or any of the other twin motor trucks on that platform) have interested me. i have seen a few up close and the drawbacks i see are:

touring car friction shocks

low ground clearance

that being said i know there's shock tower extensions so you can run 4 inch shocks, but it doesn't seem to increase ground clearance much.

i love clods though, stock to wildly modified. you can't go wrong with them, they are tough, the weakpoints of the original clod have been addressed with

the super clod. and as steelrat mentioned there are some mods you can do to it and it won't loose it's cool stock appearance.

clods are a blast and theres not much out there that can compare to them.

Thanks for your comments, I found an old thread of yours when you too were having a similar dilemma. I've watched a fair videos on YouTube of the clod in the last hour or so and to be honest most seem to spend half their time stood on their front or rear bumpers or rolling over. Perhaps that's part of the charm but I was hoping for something that could run in the dry and wet mud areas with the odd burst of speed and a bit of jump action.

From youtubes evidence the dual hnter, love it or loathe it, seems more suited to my expectations - I'm happy to be corrected though !

[taliesin]

Personally, I think the Dual Hunter/Twin Detonator/Wild Dagger trucks are great and they serve a niche not covered by Clods and E-Maxx.

The Dual Hunter runs 2x-3x longer on one battery than the E-Maxx on two batteries for starters. The Dual Hunter is lighter and more nimble than a Clod and handles completely different.

I have all three BTW - A Clod, an E-Maxx and 2x Twin Detonators. Love all of them, but they couldn't be more different. I drive them differently, in different places and locations. I think they are a great addition to the buggies you have and they really do handle differently, so you wouldn't feel like it was just another 4wd buggy. Very different from a stadium truck too!

The Dual Hunter [and progeny] is reasonably quick with an upgrade to sport tuned motors - a bit slow with stock silver can 540s. They are okay in stock form, but really benefit from some upgrades like 1) bearings; 2) oil shocks; 3) ESC; 4) sport tuned motors; and 5) steel pinions. This adds to the cost, but you will appreciate the difference. Other than steel pinions and bearings, you could add the rest later as you see fit.

They take a lot of abuse and ground clearance hasn't been an issue for me. I've seen people use taller shock towers and bigger shocks, but I've never felt the need to go that route. You can run into binding issues if you raise them up too much as this causes a bad angle with the dogbones. I've had the dogbones pop out of the front a few times with very slightly longer aftermarket shocks. The stock length {upgraded} oil shocks don't do this on my other one though, so I think it is the longer shocks. I think there are CVDs available to help with this if you want to go that route.

Last but not least, you can store 2x of them in the same amount of shelf space it takes for a single Clod or E-Maxx.

I liked my first one so much, I couldn't help myself and another one followed me home. That's one measure of success for me, since I don't have two of any R/C that I don't like.

[commiedoor]

go the dual hunter ! i have a moded wilddagger and a moded clod , both are fun but the wd ( dual hunter / wilddagger /twin det = same thing ) was the cheapest to mod , yes the front srive shafts got jamed and bent on cornering when i put 75mm alloy oil filled shocks in but a set of cv shafts fixed that . theres a heap of replacement alloy parts out there on ebay or in online shops .. mine is set up as a crawler but when standard it went quite fast with stock motors .. the only complain is some batteries are a tight squeese to get out when playing in dirt and gravel as it sometimes james the battery in . other than that ..the twin motor range is a blast ....

[Percymon]

go the dual hunter ! i have a moded wilddagger and a moded clod , both are fun but the wd ( dual hunter / wilddagger /twin det = same thing ) was the cheapest to mod , yes the front srive shafts got jamed and bent on cornering when i put 75mm alloy oil filled shocks in but a set of cv shafts fixed that . theres a heap of replacement alloy parts out there on ebay or in online shops .. mine is set up as a crawler but when standard it went quite fast with stock motors .. the only complain is some batteries are a tight squeese to get out when playing in dirt and gravel as it sometimes james the battery in . other than that ..the twin motor range is a blast ....

Thanks - found one of your older posts yesterday and am inspired by your land cruiser!. With all the alloy parts available I'm now wondering whether I'd be better buying the basic chassis parts and building from that, rather than buying a stock kit and then extra the outlay of new motors, pinions, a few alloy bits and wheels.

Are all wild dagger, dual hunter and twin detonator parts full interchangeable ?

Better start searching parts suppliers to weigh things up, although I've found a great deal on a buggy champ rere so may change tack momentarily!

In answer to my own query earlier then buying the relevant base parts IS prohibitive at UK prices.

The 4 metal parts bags, gear parts, gearbox cases and chassis come to roughly £120. Given the kit with basic 540 motors, esc, body and wheels is only £25 more its a no brainer to buy the kit and mod/hop-up as and when i like.

[SteelRat]

Thanks for your comments, I found an old thread of yours when you too were having a similar dilemma. I've watched a fair videos on YouTube of the clod in the last hour or so and to be honest most seem to spend half their time stood on their front or rear bumpers or rolling over. Perhaps that's part of the charm but I was hoping for something that could run in the dry and wet mud areas with the odd burst of speed and a bit of jump action.

From youtubes evidence the dual hnter, love it or loathe it, seems more suited to my expectations - I'm happy to be corrected though !

Well as ever the old "YMMV" addage applies, but I've never rolled mine. Granted, it's still got the standard silver can motors in it, so it's not particularly fast by any means, (but I do run the 8.4V NiMH pack that came with my Slash for a bit of extra oomph) but the thing is people do tend to make the mistake with any car of just stuffing a high power motor in something without doing the chassis work first. Something like a Clod that has a relatively high CoG and fourwheel steering with hot motors in is just asking for trouble without that groundwork.

Saying that, I do also have the mod clod that I bought from MadInventor that runs on Twin Lipo and Twin 13.5T Brushless motors. Again, converting it to 2WS makes it a whole lot more stable, so I've never rolled that either.

Still, at the end of the day it's horses for courses. If you find that the Dual Hunter is more what you're after, more power to you! I'd be interested in how you get on and what your experiences are, as I don't know a great deal about them.

[Percymon]

Well as ever the old "YMMV" addage applies, but I've never rolled mine. Granted, it's still got the standard silver can motors in it, so it's not particularly fast by any means, (but I do run the 8.4V NiMH pack that came with my Slash for a bit of extra oomph) but the thing is people do tend to make the mistake with any car of just stuffing a high power motor in something without doing the chassis work first. Something like a Clod that has a relatively high CoG and fourwheel steering with hot motors in is just asking for trouble without that groundwork.

Saying that, I do also have the mod clod that I bought from MadInventor that runs on Twin Lipo and Twin 13.5T Brushless motors. Again, converting it to 2WS makes it a whole lot more stable, so I've never rolled that either.

Still, at the end of the day it's horses for courses. If you find that the Dual Hunter is more what you're after, more power to you! I'd be interested in how you get on and what your experiences are, as I don't know a great deal about them.

Thansk again for your input - fully agree a hot motor in a less than suitable chassis is asking for trouble. Also the youtubes vids wer ona grass slope negotiated at an angle as opposed to head on, which wont have helped (CoG outside the wheel track !). Its a symptom of all high riding vehicles (scale ot otherwise), and maybe the clod is not worse thana lunchbox type chassis, maybe better with the wider track and wheelbase and more bump absorbent tyres.

I'd regard the Dual Hunter as a jacked up buggy, so in some ways its not dissimalr to the rest of my stable - perhaps its a safe option. Maybe i should get something more unstable to have greater distinction from the buggies. I should convince my boy he needs a lunchbox for his birthday !

[Percymon]

Sorry folks, me again with more questions...

Watched a load of youtube vids with the boy last night, he thought the Clod awesome but a bit bouncy and unstable at speed, and the dual hunter a great machine for general bashing.

I'm now wondering, if i can get hold of new Clod kit, what i'd need to do to it to make it more a 'racer', and a less a bouncy monster truck ? Obviously i can't do much about the height aspect, but handling ?

How much effect would some decent oil dampers and springs make ?

Are there ways to increase roll stiffness ?

Would i be better with a non Tamiya chassis kit combined with clod parts such as the axles/gearboxes? And if so is there a cheap(ish) chassis that would suit my needs. I'm assuming here that even a basic rock crawler chassis is going to be too articulation biased for my needs ??

Sorry for all the questions but been browsing RC4WD store and i'm completely baffled now !! I'm happy to buy bits n bobs over time if needbe but need to be realistic and think about the cost being similar to a Clod kit (£210) with some mods (£50 ? ).

Thanks again.

[SteelRat]

Sorry folks, me again with more questions...

Watched a load of youtube vids with the boy last night, he thought the Clod awesome but a bit bouncy and unstable at speed, and the dual hunter a great machine for general bashing.

I'm now wondering, if i can get hold of new Clod kit, what i'd need to do to it to make it more a 'racer', and a less a bouncy monster truck ? Obviously i can't do much about the height aspect, but handling ?

How much effect would some decent oil dampers and springs make ?

Are there ways to increase roll stiffness ?

Would i be better with a non Tamiya chassis kit combined with clod parts such as the axles/gearboxes? And if so is there a cheap(ish) chassis that would suit my needs. I'm assuming here that even a basic rock crawler chassis is going to be too articulation biased for my needs ??

Sorry for all the questions but been browsing RC4WD store and i'm completely baffled now !! I'm happy to buy bits n bobs over time if needbe but need to be realistic and think about the cost being similar to a Clod kit (£210) with some mods (£50 ? ).

Thanks again.

Here's what I've done with mine:

Hand made 4 link suspension. Made from 4mm threaded rod, 6mm aluminium tube, some 4mm nuts (all available from BnQ relatively cheaply) and some Traxxas 4mm ball ends (from ModelSport.co.uk for about 8 or 9 quid for 8 iirc). Also some 100mm big bore Traxxas shocks. I pinched these from another kit, but I'd imagine you'd get a set for less than £20 if you shopped around.

Lock the rear steer.. Hand made from a bit of bent and cut aluminium sheet and steering arm:

2WS conversion. Essentially there are lugs on the ends of the clod axles and on top of the wheel hubs that restrict how much throw you have in the steering. Cut those off (with a dremel or hacksaw) and just fit a longer servo horn to maximise the extra movement. You can also make up a mount so that the servo sits on top of the axle and steers the one axle, instead of the stock setup that puts it in the middle of the chassis and steers both.

These simple, cheap mods won't break the bank, and absolutely transform the truck. It still bounces around a little (anything with tyres that large will!), but it's much more stable, doesn't crab after a turn, falls over far less frequently and is just generally a complete hoot. If you go for a full on mod-clod be prepared to spend a lot of money. Personally, I think you only really need to do that if you're going to race or look at putting stupidly quick motors in. For just general bashing, what I've described there will do you just fine!

Hope that helps.

2W

[Percymon]

Here's what I've done with mine:

Hand made 4 link suspension. Made from 4mm threaded rod, 6mm aluminium tube, some 4mm nuts (all available from BnQ relatively cheaply) and some Traxxas 4mm ball ends (from ModelSport.co.uk for about 8 or 9 quid for 8 iirc). Also some 100mm big bore Traxxas shocks. I pinched these from another kit, but I'd imagine you'd get a set for less than £20 if you shopped around.

Lock the rear steer.. Hand made from a bit of bent and cut aluminium sheet and steering arm:

2WS conversion. Essentially there are lugs on the ends of the clod axles and on top of the wheel hubs that restrict how much throw you have in the steering. Cut those off (with a dremel or hacksaw) and just fit a longer servo horn to maximise the extra movement. You can also make up a mount so that the servo sits on top of the axle and steers the one axle, instead of the stock setup that puts it in the middle of the chassis and steers both.

These simple, cheap mods won't break the bank, and absolutely transform the truck. It still bounces around a little (anything with tyres that large will!), but it's much more stable, doesn't crab after a turn, falls over far less frequently and is just generally a complete hoot. If you go for a full on mod-clod be prepared to spend a lot of money. Personally, I think you only really need to do that if you're going to race or look at putting stupidly quick motors in. For just general bashing, what I've described there will do you just fine!

Hope that helps.

2W

That helps a lot !

I'd forgotten about the rear steer, so locking that out i'd imagine firms the back end a fair bit, but then places more load at the suspension arms/axle mounts ?

I like the idea of the axle mounted servo too, moves a small amount of weight down to axle level , which can only help.

How robust is the chassis tub - if i end up stiffening the suspension with stronger springs/harder dampers am i in danger of just breaking plastic chassis tubs ?

[SteelRat]

That helps a lot !

I'd forgotten about the rear steer, so locking that out i'd imagine firms the back end a fair bit, but then places more load at the suspension arms/axle mounts ?

I like the idea of the axle mounted servo too, moves a small amount of weight down to axle level , which can only help.

How robust is the chassis tub - if i end up stiffening the suspension with stronger springs/harder dampers am i in danger of just breaking plastic chassis tubs ?

Difficult to say in all honesty, but the stock clod has those nasty plastic arms that function as lower links. The lower eye of the suspension leg has that fed through it, so I suppose the weak stress point in this set up is the holes in the tub, as you're suggesting. But (and it's a big but), by the time the shock has got through the tyres (which lets be honest is really where the suspension on the stock clod is), and through your shocks, there isn't going to be much left by the time it gets to the chassis. The whole set up feels a lot more sturdy and able to take more punishment than the standard one.

The one thing that people (including me before I built one) rarely get a full measure of when they see a clod in pictures is just how large the wheels and tyres are. Compared with other so called "Monster Trucks" that Tamiya do, they are HUGE. Not only are they tall (if you place a Sand Scorcher next to a clod, the roof is about level with the top of one Clod tyre), but they're wide as well. As such they do soak up a lot of the shocks and bumps all on their own.

As for the steering servo, the main reason for moving it is that the standard clod has a lot of slop in the servo saver arrangement that it uses. By doing away with that completely and making the steering a little more direct, the car handles a lot better and tends to go where you point it, rather than where it feels like

The way the locked rear steer is setup doesn't affect the movement of the rear axle at all, because of the ball joints that hold the position of the wheels. As far as load goes, it's no different to the load at the front end.

[kaiser]

now we're talking!

if you want to build a modded clod i suggest buying a pair of axles, it will save you a few bucks if you want a race style clod.

here's a quick price list (what i paid to build mine) in usd:

superclod kit $209 (a pair of axles will run around 120)

cpe terminator complete chassis kit

comes with, chassis, rear steer lock out, all links, behind the axle front steering kit, body mounts, shock mounts. $199.00

cpe 2 inch wheel wideners $25

cpe inner axle stiffeners $20 for 4, but you only need 2 if you use the rear steer lockout

rcguy motor mounts $20 for the pair

yeah racing shocks (these are cheap but work very well on my truck) $20.00 for 4

rc4wd foam tire inserts $30 for 4

parma lexan cold body $27

2 hobbywing 8.5t 60amp ezrun systems $180.00 for both shipped

2 sets of hot racing hardend pinions 13 tooth and 15 tooth $24 for all 4

servo y harness $5

battery y harness $15

50c 2s 5000mah lipo $50.00 (you need a high c rating to run 2 bl systems off one battery)

-------------

total $824

to me thats alot of $$ but i did it over time and i really love how it turned out.

the terminator chassis kit lowers the c.o.g. so much, the body doesn't sit as high and it flies through the air straight as an arrow.

i'm actually going to my first rc monster truck race tomorrow. i'm excited.

[Percymon]

Oh hells bells guys - i was coming round to the idea of a new Clod kit, then someone mentions CPE !

Now i am completely confused and really need an idiots explanation to help me out....

If i were to buy a basic chassis kit like the CPE Predator http://www.crawfordperformanceengineering....?products_id=50 Would i just hook this up to some Clodbuster Fr and Rr axles / gearboxes,,front steering, aftermarket dampers , motors and esc ?

If the above is somewhere near right, could u do similar with the ground pounder (lower CofG) chassis http://www.crawfordperformanceengineering....;products_id=52 or is that so far off the clod that its a bag of trouble ??

I told you i was confused !

[kaiser]

Oh hells bells guys - i was conmin round to the idea of a new Clod kit, then someone mentions CPE !

This might be what i'm looking for...

http://www.crawfordperformanceengineering....;products_id=52

look away Tamiya only members !

the gp is a decent truck(built by redcat, designed by cpe), parts support is tough and that link you posted is for an upgraded chassis, so you still need to buy a gp.

gp's are also not twin motor, and for the most part can't compete that well against a similarly modded clod.

when you take a good look at the mt racing scene, there's not much out there that con compete with modded clods.

clods usually sweep the events, dominate is more like it, you rarely see non clods on the podium.

[Percymon]

Thanks kaiser - i'd sort of realised the error of my post and was modding it when you kindly replied.

That rules out the ground pounder then - stick to clod as the base point !

[kaiser]

with a basic cpe chassis you still need:

http://www.crawfordperformanceengineering....products_id=211

http://www.crawfordperformanceengineering....;products_id=15

http://www.crawfordperformanceengineering....;products_id=10

and hardware. (bolts, nuts, shock mounts,sway bars, rod ends all made from stainless)

it seems that brett/cpe owner is out of stock on a bunch of stuff right now, but if you got a complete chassis kit it would include all that.

at the moment he only lists complete kits for the terminator, most likely when he gets new ones made he'll have complete predators too.

i like the terminator, it comes with the nicer machined lower links (easier to mount shocks) too.

the wheel wideners and inner stiffeners were purchased seperatley but are highly recomended.

i'm sure i'll run into brett tomorrow @ winter wars, i'll ask him when he thinks he'll have new kits in stock.

[SteelRat]

Heheh welcome to Tamiya Club.. the licensed, online Wallet Emptying Service

And straight away you're seeing the Awesomeness of Clod. The only limits are your imagination and your bank balance

[kaiser]

Heheh welcome to Tamiya Club.. the licensed, online Wallet Emptying Service

And straight away you're seeing the Awesomeness of Clod. The only limits are your imagination and your bank balance

it's the truth!

i gave up 1:1 racing for rc, so i think i'm still ahead a bit. lol