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Rob Buckle

Re-timing Tamiya Super Stock TZ motor

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All,

As many of you know I recently stated that I intended on purchasing 2x Super Stock BZ motors. However, I was unsure if BZs could be re-timed. I knew from Jonesy76 that TZ motors had timing marks on the can and Lemming confirmed here that TZs could be re-timed for use in a Clod Buster - exactly my own intent. Therefore, when I ordered a pair of BZs I asked the seller to check if there were any timing marks on the can, and if there were not, to send me a pair of TZs instead.

2x Tamiya Super Stock TZ motors arrived by post this morning. ;)

The following description and photos describe how to re-time this advanced timed motor. I hope this is helpful to others. First up, the motor:

TZmotor1.jpg

Included with the motor are instructions for disassembly in the form of an exploded diagram, which is useful if like me you have never owned a motor other than silver can or Sport Tuned and are a bit intimidated by the complex looking end-bell. :lol:

The end-bell is held against the end of the can by two screws. Before unscrewing these, unclip the 2 bush springs which otherwise tend to grip the rotor shaft. After the bush springs have been unclipped and the end-bell screws unscrewed, carefully remove the end-bell by pulling it directly off the rotor shaft.

The next thing to do is to trim a small plastic section from the end-bell that 'keys' the end-bell into the can. In as-new motor condition this plastic section prevents the end-bell from turning relative to the can, is probably there for ease of assembly, and prevents the motor from being re-timed. You can see the plastic section adjacent to the second-from-top timing mark, keyed into a notch in the can in the next photo:

TZmotor3.jpg

Here it is again, shown on the detached end-bell:

TZmotor5.jpg

And after it has been trimmed off:

TZmotor6.jpg

Now we are free to re-time the motors. Both will need to be re-timed. The motor intended to run in reverse has its timing retarded as much as possible. However, physical constraints of the motor construction prevents the motor's timing from being retarded by an equal and opposite amount as the motor that is intended to run forwards has its timing advanced. Therefore, when the motor that is intended to run backwards has had its timing retarded as much as possible, the motor intended to run forwards has its advanced timing reduced slightly, at which point the timing of both motors, running in opposite directions, will be equal. :P

Inside the can is a circular metal stopper ring that the end-bell's 2 screws screw into. The end-bell's screws pull the stopper plate against 'dimples' positioned on the inside of the can, clamping the end-bell in place. By rotating the end-bell we re-time the motor. However, rotating the end-bell also rotates the stopper plate, and if rotated too far, cut outs positioned around the circumference of the stopper plate will align with the dimples and the stopper plate will fall out of the can. Therefore, we want to turn the stopper plate as much as possible but just short of it falling out, at which point the end-bell can be carefully screwed back into the stopper plate. Here is a photo showing the stopper plate, its cut outs, and the can's dimples:

TZmotor4.jpg

Now that the motor intended to run in reverse has been re-timed, we can turn to the remaining motor. The process is exactly the same as before, except that you will not need to rotate the end-bell to the same degree. At this stage you need to go through an iterative process whereby you re-time the motor intended to run forwards, listen to it running and compare the pitch to the motor intended to run in reverse. It is crucial that when performing a comparison of the sound of the two motors running, the motors are wired for their intended direction of rotation. In other words, one motor must be wired in reverse to the other.

It doesn't take long before the pitch of both motors sounds the same, at which point you are done. Here are my 2 re-timed TZ motors. The motor on the left is the reduced advanced timed motor (i.e. forward running) and the motor on the right the retarded motor (i.e. reverse running):

TZmotor9.jpg

Cheers,

Rob

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Really nice work Rob, and a superb little lowdown on how to play with the Super Stock motors.

I could have done with that when I had my Clod (now sadly gone).

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Really nice work Rob, and a superb little lowdown on how to play with the Super Stock motors. I could have done with that when I had my Clod (now sadly gone).

Thanks mate. I still need to make a Y-harness to connect my unlimited (single) motor ESC to the two TZ motors before I can see what difference they make compared to Sport Tuned motors. Unfortunately I'm led to believe that it may be a week or two before the leads I need for the harness arrive through the post. :blink:

The exercise of re-timing the TZ motors has raised a few questions in my mind:

1. Given that the forward running motor has had its advanced timing reduced slightly (in order to match the reverse running motor's retarded timing), does that mean that I have gained (even) more torque at the expense of a reduction in RPM?

2. Are timing marks really necessary? If the process I have described in my original post is correct, then re-timing the motor is readily achieved without reference to timing marks. It is the pitch of the sound of the motors that ultimately confirms that they are in sync with one another.

3. Although the stopper plate must be positioned in such a way that the cut outs do not coincide with the position of the 'dimples' on the inside of the can (so that the stopper plate doesn't fall out of the can), is there any reason why one cannot simply rotate the stopper plate even further, effectively leap-frogging the cut outs from one side of the dimples to the other? If so, it should be a straightforward exercise to retard the reverse running motor even further, which in turn would mean that the forward running motor may not need to be retarded at all (in fact it could conceivably require to have its timing advanced beyond the as-new position, yielding higher RPM but reduced torque).

I'd be very interested to have these questions answered.

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1. Given that the forward running motor has had its advanced timing reduced slightly (in order to match the reverse running motor's retarded timing), does that mean that I have gained (even) more torque at the expense of a reduction in RPM?

So you did alter the timing on both motors then?? I was a little confused when I looked at your second photo, showing a motor with quite a bit of advance, and then your last photo showing both motors, each having less timing than the motor in the second photo..

To answer your question, yes you would have gained some torque, but lost some RPM by reducing the motors timing advance.. Whether the reduction would be enough to notice it, especially in a big truck like the Clod, that is another story.. If you are NOT interested in doing speed runs, running both motors with zero timing would be an option, and would give you similar performance going in reverse as you would in foward.. (this is what I did with the motors in my Clod)

2. Are timing marks really necessary? If the process I have described in my original post is correct, then re-timing the motor is readily achieved without reference to timing marks. It is the pitch of the sound of the motors that ultimately confirms that they are in sync with one another.

No... The ZERO timing point can be found by aligning the screws that hold the end bell on, with the centre of the airgap between the magnets in the can.. Typically, the centre of the magnets also aligns with the small gap between the mounting screws.. (In the case of a 540 silver can, the single mounting screw hole will align with the centre of the magnets in the can..)

Once you have found the zero timing point, you can use a Protractor to measure how many degrees you rotate the endbell in relation to the can.. Remember a circle has 360 degrees, and rotating the endbell 180 degrees (half a turn) will reverse the direction that the motor spins.. I think it was Trinity that used to make a plastic motor stand that had timing marks around the top to aid in setting the timing after a rebuild..

Looking at your last photo, the motor on the left is running close to zero timing, whilst the one on the right has been advanced for running in the opposite direction (or retarded for normal rotation direction)... ;-)

The only true way to match the performance of two motors is by using a motor dyno..

3. Although the stopper plate must be positioned in such a way that the cut outs do not coincide with the position of the 'dimples' on the inside of the can (so that the stopper plate doesn't fall out of the can), is there any reason why one cannot simply rotate the stopper plate even further, effectively leap-frogging the cut outs from one side of the dimples to the other? If so, it should be a straightforward exercise to retard the reverse running motor even further, which in turn would mean that the forward running motor may not need to be retarded at all (in fact it could conceivably require to have its timing advanced beyond the as-new position, yielding higher RPM but reduced torque).

Back in the late 80's, early 90's 27turn "stock" motor timing was often advanced up to 45 degrees... The motors went like rockets, but the advanced timing caused in high current draw and from that, excessive heat buildup meaning the motors only lasted 1 or 2 race meetings before needing to be replaced.. When the "rebuildable stock motors" were released, timing was fixed at a more respectable 24 degrees.. The "hotter" the motor (the lower the wind) typically less timing is required or used..

I'd be very interested to have these questions answered.

Hopefully I have you interested... :-)

Cheers

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Hopefully I have you interested...

You do indeed. I find this all very interesting, thank you. B)

So you did alter the timing on both motors then?? I was a little confused when I looked at your second photo, showing a motor with quite a bit of advance, and then your last photo showing both motors, each having less timing than the motor in the second photo..

Yes, both motors were adjusted. The second photo is the motor without adjustment, to show the plastic part that needs to be removed.

To answer your question, yes you would have gained some torque, but lost some RPM by reducing the motors timing advance.. Whether the reduction would be enough to notice it, especially in a big truck like the Clod, that is another story..

Hmm, good point.

...rotating the endbell 180 degrees (half a turn) will reverse the direction that the motor spins..

So would it be correct to say that an equally valid alternative to wiring one motor in reverse and retiming would be to wire it exactly the same as the other motor but rotate the end-bell 180 degrees (or by a similarly large angle in order to match the timing of both motors)?

Looking at your last photo, the motor on the left is running close to zero timing, whilst the one on the right has been advanced for running in the opposite direction...

So the first mark represents zero timing? Also, is the above quote contradictory at all, in the sense that both motors clearly are timed differently (the timing markings) yet sound the same when driven, or is this what you would expect?

The "hotter" the motor (the lower the wind) typically less timing is required or used..

So would it be correct to say that it is better to purchase a motor with fewer wind(s) and not re-time it than to purchase one with more wind(s) and re-time it...from the perspective of the health/longevity of the motor?

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Yes, if you rotate the endbell of one motor approx 180 degrees (taking into account reverse timing the motor), you could wire the motors red to red and black to black, and the motor that you spun the endbell on, will turn the opposite way to the other..

Yes, the mark on the endbell that is inline with the endbell screw, when that is aligned in the centre of the airgap in the magnets in the can, that is the zero timing point.. The cooling air holes in the can are usually placed in between the magnets in the can, so that is what or how I was working out what your timing was set at.. (you can also see the mounting screw holes through the cooling air holes in the motor..)

No two motors are created equal... These motors are mass produced, and subtle differences in manufacturing tolerances can mean big differences in performance... I have several 27 turn stock motors here that have been dyno'd by the manufacturer, and even though they are all the same motor (Trinity CO27), they have approx 1000RPM difference in the maximum RPM between the best and worst, and similar differences when it comes to power, torque and efficiency..

In the early days of racing, drivers would often "fiddle" with the timing of motors in an effort to gain the maximum performance from the motor, and still make runtime with the 1200 - 1400 mAh batteries being used.. These days, runtime is not an issue, so most mod drivers will leave the timing where it was set from the factory (motors are usually preset for maximum performance at the factory), and if they want to go faster or slower, they just change motor..

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...the mark on the endbell that is inline with the endbell screw, when that is aligned in the centre of the airgap in the magnets in the can, that is the zero timing point.. The cooling air holes in the can are usually placed in between the magnets in the can, so that is what or how I was working out what your timing was set at.. (you can also see the mounting screw holes through the cooling air holes in the motor..)

I see exactly what you mean. I hadn't noticed that one of the end-bell screws aligned with the first timing mark, nor that after re-timing, the mark aligns with the zero-timed position.

Thanks! I love learning these little jems of information. B)

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In light of the preceeding posts I decided to experiment a bit further. B) I opened up the reverse running motor and rotated the stopper plate by an amount sufficient to leap-frog the cut outs over the dimples. This has had the effect of increasing the 'negative' timing of this motor. To counter this, the forward running motor has also been re-timed by increasing its 'positive' timing. The net result of these actions has been to return the motors to, pretty much, their original factory setting, as evidenced by the fact that the timing mark of the forward running motor is only marginally further advanced compared to its original position (refer to 2nd photo in original post).

I am well pleased, as I would prefer more RPM than torque given the choice. Why? Because the TZ motor in stock condition has 500g-cm compared to my Sport Tunes motor's value of 350g-cm, so I'm already going to see an increase in torque. What I am more interested in, personally, is an improvement in speed.

Really looking forward to seeing the Clod run with these motors.

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I see exactly what you mean. I hadn't noticed that one of the end-bell screws aligned with the first timing mark, nor that after re-timing, the mark aligns with the zero-timed position.

Thanks! I love learning these little jems of information. :blink:

Hi Rob..

The timing marks are not on the plastic endbell, they are on the motors can, as seen in the photo below (your motor does not have them being a motor with fixed timing via the tab that you removed).. You can see the indentation in the can that is in the airgap of the motors magnets, and also that the zero timing mark on the sticker is in the middle or centre of the indentation (or airgap of the magnets)..

motor1.jpg

Here is another pic of the motor (rotated slightly) showing the timing mark on the endbell, and that it aligns with the screw that holds the endbell to the motor (screw is obscured by the grounding tab for the capacitors, but it is there).. As you can see, this motor is running approx 12 degrees of timing advance..

motor2.jpg

Cheers..

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Backlash,

The timing marks are not on the plastic endbell, they are on the motors can, as seen in the photo below (your motor does not have them being a motor with fixed timing via the tab that you removed)..

The TZ does have a zero timing (reference) mark which is aligned with the centre of the air gaps. If you look carefully at the can on the right (and really carefully at the can on the left), in the final photo of my original post, you can just make it out. With the can in your hand it is easily seen.

On a different note, do you know the part number for the stand-up brushes the TZ uses? I searched last night but could only find reference to the RZ's lay-down brushes. Of course I don't need replacement brushes just yet, but at some point I will...

Cheers

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Backlash,

The TZ does have a zero timing (reference) mark which is aligned with the centre of the air gaps. If you look carefully at the can on the right (and really carefully at the can on the left), in the final photo of my original post, you can just make it out. With the can in your hand it is easily seen.

Sorry my bad... In some of your posts you referred to timing marks, (plural) not just a single timing mark, and I thought you were talking of the three additional marks on the endbell as being the "timing marks"..

On a different note, do you know the part number for the stand-up brushes the TZ uses? I searched last night but could only find reference to the RZ's lay-down brushes. Of course I don't need replacement brushes just yet, but at some point I will...

Cheers

Mate, I have no idea what the part number is for the Tamiya stand-up brushes, I have never used them..

It wont matter what brand the brushes are, just as long as they are stand-up.. One thing to be aware of though is that brushes come in different compounds to suit different applications.. Brushes that are used in race motors are designed for maximum current flow and performance, so wont last as long and will wear the comutator faster.. If you are only bashing, then you would be best off with a long life brush.. However with the world of RC moving over to brushless motors, your choice and range may not be as extensive as it was 10 years ago..

Cheers..

PS.. Here is a nice little spiel I found on HPI's website on motor maintenance and care of electric motors whilst I was looking for motor brushes..

Electric Car Maintenance

Motor - The powerplant of an electric car, the electric motor requires proper maintenance to run smoothly and efficiently. Motors have many maintenance-intensive parts; we will deal with each one separately.

Motor terms: First, however, we will go over the basic parts of the motor. The can is the metal main body of the motor. The motor magnets are glued to the inside of the can. One bearing (for modified motors) or bushing (for some budget modified or stock motors) is at the end of the motor can, where the motor shaft comes out.

The endbell is the plastic part of the motor that seals the motor and has another bearing or bushing where the other end of the motor shaft sits. The brush hoods hold the brushes on the endbell, and the motor springs hold the brushes against the commutator. The brushes are the only parts of the motor that touch the commutator, and are very important in modified racing. Every brush has a shunt wire, which is how the brush is connected to the brush hood. Solder them on for maximum efficiency, or use screws and eyelets for convenience. Most brushes are available with or without eyelets. Some endbells have heatsinks built into them, and others have inspection holes so you can check the commutator without taking off the brushes. Some endbells have both features. The endbell also has the motor tabs, where the motor wires or connectors are soldered.

The armature sits inside the can. The armature includes the motor shaft and all the stuff that spins inside the motor. The commutator is the copper part of the armature, and is only part that most racers have to worry about. It must be in good condition for good performance and high efficiency. The armature also features copper wire wrapped around laminated stacks of metal that are cut into distinctive shapes called poles. All stock motors have the same number of winds (wraps of wire around each pole), while modified motors have less winds with thicker gauge wire for more power and RPM (Revolutions Per Minute).

Now that the motor terms are out of the way, let's move on to motor maintenance!

Cleaning - You should purchase a can of motor spray (HPI's Nitro Car Cleaner is a good bet) and a set of commutator cleaning sticks. Remove the springs from the endbell, then take out the brushes. Don't lose the springs! Holding the motor with the endbell facing down, spray the commutator from three or four sides (rotate it if you have to). Let the motor spray dry, then insert the square end of the blue or red comm stick and hold it lightly against the commutator. Rotate the motor shaft several times to let the comm cleaning stick do its job. Then do the same thing with the green (polishing) comm stick. Racers should clean the motor after every run, casual hobbyists should do it at least every two or three runs.

We'll cover cleaning the brushes when we get to the section on motor brushes.

Commutator Truing - If you don't race, you should have someone true the commutator of your motor (whether it's a stock or modified motor) every ten to fifteen runs. Ask your hobby shop if they true motors there, or find a racer who is willing to help you. At most, you might be charged $5. This helps the shop or racer cover the cost of the diamond bits on the motor lathe, which often costs $85 or more, on top of the more than $100 it cost for the lathe!

If you are a serious racer, you should have your comm trued at least every four to five runs. The more often, the better. Having more 'shallow' cuts more often is better than just a few 'deep' cuts. After each cut, you should replace the brushes as well, since the commutator has a new profile. Backyard bashers won't have to worry too much about replacing the brushes, but it should be done when the the brushes are noticably worn down.

Truing the commutator and replacing the brushes basically 'refreshes' the motor and makes it run pretty much like new, so it's a highly recommended procedure!

Motor Brushes - The brushes on your motor should be cleaned when you clean the commutator. Use the motor spray to clean the ends of the brushes, and then use the round end of the blue or red comm sticks to clean the face of the brushes. Rotate the sticks, don't move them up an down on the face of the brush! Then use the green comm stick to follow up the cleaning.

About brushes and comm truing: Casual R/C hobbyists won't need to replace the brushes on their motors very often, only when the brush gets worn down to about 2/3 its original length. Using serrated-face (quick break-in) brushes is fine for the 'backyard basher'. Racers, on the other hand, should get a new set of brushes every time they have the commutator trued on their motor. This allows the new brushes to re-seat themselves on the new, smaller comm diameter. The race-style brushes that don't feature a serrated face are best for serious racers, since the serration breaks in quicker, but causes a little extra wear on the commutator that racers may not like.

A note about high silver content motor brushes: If you use a motor that has high silver content, you should know that those brushes should be replaced every two or three runs because they wear very quickly. They are meant for serious racing only! If you are a casual hobbyist and bought a motor that has these brushes in it, you should replace them with an economical pair of brushes when the originals wear out.

If you run your motor in very hot conditions (no cooling air, high gearing, etc.) there is a chance your brushes could be damaged. If the brushes, commutator, endbell or brush springs look discolored after a run, you need to take it easy on the motor, or it won't be able to run much longer! Remove the inner body or use a smaller pinion or larger spur gear when running the car with that motor. Beginners need to be especially careful with modified motors, because the gearing for them must be lower than for stock motors.

Brush Springs - Most R/C hobbyists shouldn't need to ever replace the springs on the motor. If you run the motor very hot (see above) there is a chance you can damage the springs so that they don't maintain the same tension on the brushes. A sure sign you are running the motor too hot is that the brushes come unsoldered! If this happens you will probably have to replace the brushes and springs, as well as true the comm, to get the motor up to normal operating standards.

Bushings and Bearings - Use an oil specifically made for bushings or bearings, and completely fill up the end cavity where the motor shaft sticks out on the outside of the can and endbell. Fill one end of the motor, spin the shaft a little, then fill the other end. Oiling the bushings of a stock motor is very important, since not oiling them can cause extra friction you just don't want!

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Sorry my bad... In some of your posts you referred to timing marks, (plural) not just a single timing mark, and I thought you were talking of the three additional marks on the endbell as being the "timing marks"..

I was. :o You were right to state that the TZ has no timing marks (plural). I had indeed thought up 'till that time that the markings on the end-bell were timing marks. It was only when you posted the photo of the motor that I realised that while the TZ does not have timing marks (plural), it does have a zero timing reference mark (singular). Sorry for the confusion, if it's anyone's 'bad', it's mine! :blink:

...I have no idea what the part number is for the Tamiya stand-up brushes, I have never used them..

Hmm. Anyone?

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I need to adjust the Timing on my Motors.

I do not have any Tools like RPM Meters or such.

 

I`ve adjusted the Timing before on these Motors. From what i remember i i`ve done a Scratch/groove on the Motor for a "Zero Timing Mark" and alinged it somhow with the Marks on the Plastic.

But i do not remeber anything of that.....

 

What should i do?

The Motor has a Zero with an Mark on it, that mark alignes with 3rd of 4 Marks on the Plastic Endbell. ( Or the 2nd of 4 Marks, it depends how you`re holding the Moror ^^ )

I would like to have 2 zero timed Motors or one with a little bit advanced and one with a little bit reversed Timing.

 

I do not even Know in witch direction it should be rotated ^^

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So, today i`ve made a Photo with Marks for my question.

Are the Arrow pointing to the Zero Timing Mark?

Does the other Arrow point out the (theoreticly first) reverse Timing Mark?

DSC00149.thumb.JPG.a6c68ecf30bcb478c6f2242296007c2d.JPG

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Zero timing occurs when the brushes are at 90 degrees to the zero mark on the can, so to zero time the motors in the picture above, you would rotate the endbell one mark clockwise. Alternatively, you could reverse time one by rotating the endbell past the zero mark and then continue rotating it until the zero mark on the can is one notch worth of rotation away from the first mark on the endbell.

Basically, the arrows you have drawn on the picture are correct.

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The Guy in the Video says it is the other way around.

 

He holds the Motor with the can down and the Endbell up. He says that he is turning the Can left and the endbell it is reverse Timing and when the Can is rotated right and the Enbell left it is advanced.

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So, yesterday i "retimed" my GT Tuned Motors.

 

I´ve learned that you not only have to remove the Plastictab to turn the Andbell, there are also 2 Metalclamps that hold the Enbell to the Can.

 

You have to bend the Clamps to remove the Endbell from the Can, now i can rotate the Enbell freely .
The Problem is that the Screw that holds the Endbell to the Super Stock Motor doesn`t hold the Enbell to the GT Tuned Motor.

The Screw on the GT Tuned Motor doesn`t hold anything ^^

The only Things that hold the Endbell to the Can are these Metalclams that i circled in Red.

DSC00150.thumb.JPG.efe4485a4440bbb3cc1d8f33e4c75af6.JPG

 

So now i have 2 Questions:

.) Is Timing now correct?

.) How much Force is needed to hold in the Endbell to the Can? Maybe i can Hammer in the Metal Clamps to hold the Motor....

 

DSC00152.thumb.JPG.5152746af5c1a15932a3d4cb91c10334.JPG

 

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The reverse timed motor appears to be reversed further than the advanced one is advanced, but otherwise all appears well. 

There isn't a huge loading on the endbell clips, so bending them back into place will be fine. I typically use are tip of a flat bladed screwdriver to press them into place rather than a hammer, but the idea is the same either way. 

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Ok, now i`m confused :D @TurnipJF

 

The left Motor is reversed timed and on the (theoreticly) "2nd" Mark past the 0 Timing Mark.

The right Motor is advanced timed and on the 2nd Mark past the 0 timing Mark.

 

 

 

The right Motor is "factoryfresh" and the 0 on the Can is on the 3rd Mark (2 Marks away from the first Mark on the Endbell).

You could also say the Left motor is on -2 and the right Motor is on +2.

 

 

 

****, that hard to understand for me :D
Why can`t Tamiya make easy timable Motors ?? I was soproud and released when i found that 25 Turn Motors that can be runned with the Tamiya standard ESC from the Super Clodbuster, and i thought that the Motors are easyly timeable.....
But i hurt myself while bending the Tabs, i scratched the Motor and there are no easy to understand Timingmarks on the can or the Endbell.

 

Other Producers have a clear Point on the Enbell and a cale/meter on the Can(Sticker) so you can adjust the Motor easily to the same + and - Degre Grade and se wich Motor is the forward and wich is the backwards Motor.

The Problem is none of the Producers makes a 25 Turn Motor exept Tamiya......

 

I would love to get some Super Stock Motors in my Clod but they are 23 Turn Motors and a little bit to hot.

The GT Tuned Motors seemed to be perfect......    ....but now i`m thinking about throwing them in the Bin and stay by the silvercans.

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1 hour ago, whahooo said:

Ok, now i`m confused :D @TurnipJF

The left Motor is reversed timed and on the (theoreticly) "2nd" Mark past the 0 Timing Mark.

The right Motor is advanced timed and on the 2nd Mark past the 0 timing Mark.

The right Motor is "factoryfresh" and the 0 on the Can is on the 3rd Mark (2 Marks away from the first Mark on the Endbell).

I've had a closer look at the photo, and I think I see where I went wrong. Sorry for the confusion. 

The factory fresh motor is one mark away from zero. Zero timing occurs when the brushes are at 90 degrees to the zero mark, which centres them on the magnets. See the picture below:

Zero-timed-endbell.jpg

Your re-timed motor is actually hugely advanced. It looks like the endbell was turned the wrong way. If you go back to the photo with the red text on it and compare that to how the motors are now, you'll see what I mean.

DSC00149.JPG

Turn the endbell clockwise until the zero mark is one theoretical notch away from the zero mark, as shown in your picture, and it will be correctly timed for reverse rotation. 

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No worries, i`m easily confusable.

I have dyslexia Grade 12 or something like that and do not understand the rules of left, right, up, down, clockwise, anticlockwise and stuff like that. The only thing i know that gravity pulls mass to the center of the bigger mass :D But if that is up or down, i do not know.

(If the endbell points up, you have to turn clockwise, if the endbell points down you hav to turn it Anticlockwise.....   ??? very confusing, it always depends what the referencepoint is :D )

 

So here is my Picture of the newly timed Motor:

 

DSC00153.thumb.JPG.472fd017826fe69eae52c5fd4adfb9f4.JPG

 

 

 

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58 minutes ago, whahooo said:

No worries, i`m easily confusable.

I have dyslexia Grade 12 or something like that and do not understand the rules of left, right, up, down, clockwise, anticlockwise and stuff like that. The only thing i know that gravity pulls mass to the center of the bigger mass :D But if that is up or down, i do not know.

(If the endbell points up, you have to turn clockwise, if the endbell points down you hav to turn it Anticlockwise.....   ??? very confusing, it always depends what the referencepoint is :D )

 

So here is my Picture of the newly timed Motor:

DSC00153.thumb.JPG.472fd017826fe69eae52c5fd4adfb9f4.JPG

 

That looks better. No wonder confusion ensued - I am dyslexic too! 😀

The way I try to remember it is by looking straight at the endbell with the motor on its side, pinion end pointing away from me. Then up and down cease to be an issue. I only need to deal with clockwise and anticlockwise. 

Standard rotation is clockwise when viewed from the endbell. I remember this by picturing the direct drive of a F1 chassis, watching which way the pinion turns in my mind when I push the car forwards. 

To advance the timing means to adjust the brushes so that they contact the commutator before the centerpoint on the magnets (in advance of TDC if it were an internal combustion engine), so this means turning the endbell in the opposite direction to motor rotation, i.e. anticlockwise for normal rotation.

It thus follows that reverse timing involves doing the same adjustment in the opposite direction. The motor will be spinning anticlockwise, so the endbell is rotated clockwise.

In short, all looks to be correct now. 

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