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BiggusDitchus

58044 Pajero decals

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I've just checked out Tamiya USA's manual download page (https://www.tamiyausa.com/pdf/manuals/, which lacks a license of use :) .

So I had a look at the Terms of use for the site (https://www.tamiyausa.com/terms.php), and they seem to only have a problem with commercial re-use:

This license does not include any resale or commercial use of this web site or its contents; any collection and use of any product listings, descriptions, or prices; any derivative use of this web site or its contents; any downloading or copying of information for the benefit of another merchant; or any use of data mining, robots, or similar data gathering and extraction tools. This web site or any portion of this web site may not be reproduced, duplicated, copied, sold, resold, visited, or otherwise exploited for any commercial purpose without express written consent of Tamiya America, Inc.

There is no mention of making things freely available. So that ought to be okay.

Furthermore, it should be kept in mind that the manual scans available at TamiyaUSA and TamiyaClub are not the same, since they were scanned by different people. What this means is that they should be considered two different things.

On top of that, Tamiya USA is legally forbidden from making available manuals coming from TamiyaClub (should they feel like doing that).

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Stupid move from Tamiya :) Are they trying to stop us enjoying their brand or something!? I mean, they should embrace the fact that we like their models, even if those are the old/vintage ones and it doesn't get Tamiya any money (directly that is, anyway). I understand if they'd have a problem with decals being reproduced for current cars, but I really can't understand what the problem is with the other decals, and the manuals. I mean, they don't make money on manuals of discontinued cars, and with the cars that are currently in production, they post the manuals themselves - which means they are available online anyway.

Is not having the correct decals really any worse than having fakes?

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Whats next I wonder, T shirts depicting their models?, Mugs?, Repro plastic parts?, now they started you think they gonna stop?.

Wonder if those guys that built the Sand Scorcher in 1.1 scale had permission from Tamiya?, and wonder if they had permission to use the sponsor decals?, then again it was likely free advertising for the re-re so they might not have objected to it as it would benefit them?.

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I've just had an idea about manuals. It won't help collectors who want the actual Tamiya artwork but for someone like me trying to keep an old Falcon running it would be great. Why not make the equivalent of "Haynes manuals" for the discontinued vintage cars? Base it on a teardown and rebuild, take your own photos or do your own drawings, and have one manual per chassis type (an SRB manual, a 3-speed manual, an ORV manual, a 4WD buggy manual, etc.) Include not only the stock specifications and assembly, but also all the knowledge acquired from 20-30 years of actually running these things. Similar to the Blackfoot thread on here, but in a nice PDF form with everything organized.

If you don't use any of Tamiya's actual images or text, then it shouldn't violate copyright, as far as I know. And it would be better than the original manual.

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I've just had an idea about manuals. It won't help collectors who want the actual Tamiya artwork but for someone like me trying to keep an old Falcon running it would be great. Why not make the equivalent of "Haynes manuals" for the discontinued vintage cars? Base it on a teardown and rebuild, take your own photos or do your own drawings, and have one manual per chassis type (an SRB manual, a 3-speed manual, an ORV manual, a 4WD buggy manual, etc.) Include not only the stock specifications and assembly, but also all the knowledge acquired from 20-30 years of actually running these things. Similar to the Blackfoot thread on here, but in a nice PDF form with everything organized.

If you don't use any of Tamiya's actual images or text, then it shouldn't violate copyright, as far as I know. And it would be better than the original manual.

Now that's an idea I like. Who's willing to do it though? It's a lot of work for one person, especially if you have to do your own drawings.

edit:

Just thinking it over... It'd be a lot easier if someone is good with a 3D package. If you could do a 3D model of each part then you could easily do the step by step guides for each model as well as catalogue parts. This would allow the creator of the 'Haynes Manual' to reference the parts for cross compatibility across the entire Tamiya collection.

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Right, that's one Email of objection sent to The Hobby Co. Ltd (asking to be forwarded to Tamiya Japan) and another Email of objection sent to the only e-mail address that I could find of Tamiya Japan i.e. WINDOW@tamiya-inc.co.jp. Of course it will have no effect whatsoever but it made me feel better to get it off my chest <_<

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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Well I'll be darned, I got an e-mail from The Hobby Co. Ltd. telling me that they had passed on my mail to the relevant department of Tamiya Japan. Looks like that's how you contact Tamiya Japan LOL.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

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Now that's an idea I like. Who's willing to do it though? It's a lot of work for one person, especially if you have to do your own drawings.

edit:

Just thinking it over... It'd be a lot easier if someone is good with a 3D package. If you could do a 3D model of each part then you could easily do the step by step guides for each model as well as catalogue parts. This would allow the creator of the 'Haynes Manual' to reference the parts for cross compatibility across the entire Tamiya collection.

Do what haynes used to do , take photos rather than draw diagrams, then add numbered attachments . You could also include spanner ratings (i always thought haynes should rate their job difficulty with 1-4 bleeding knuckles :) )for difficulty of jobs, as well as shortcuts for doing awkward jobs (E.g what is the fastest way to get a steering servo out of a hotshot?)

Better still, why not just dismantle a car completely, then video reassembly, talking through part numbers as the car is re-assembled ? It's a couple of hours work to re-assemble a car, not ilke the huge effort required to produce a document.

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Actually hyanes like manuals did exist from MRC, they were like the tamiya exploited views but more detailed. Unfortunately I lost my books in a flood 6 years ago, however they pop up on eBay from time to time. They were designed for dealers to quickly cross reference things.

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I like the idea of the Haynes style manual but which ever way you look at doing it, it's insane hours to do it justice... oh and then I bet you whoever went to the trouble would want some financial reward. I wonder if the cost of manuals will go up on ebay?

James

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Tamiya have Facebook pages that they regularly update, we could lodge our protests there as well. They have twitter too.

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Although i am/was rebuilding a SandScorcher i was going to buy the re-release for my 8year old son for his Birthday in October similer to when i was his age getting into the original Tamiya kits.

But after all this with Tamiya i am very disapointed and will NOT be spending money for there profits untill things get sorted for everyones pleaseure either Old-School Vintage keeping the Tamiya Heritage alive and kicking or Re-releases for the next geaneration of racers etc.

WAKE UP TAMIYA AND STOP BEING SILLY, MAKE THIS WORK FOR ALL (OLD AND NEW)

GING

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From Netsmith;

Tamiya have agreed to take no further action with regard to infringements of copyright on both the decals and manuals on the site, in light of our swift cooperation and also the support we have shown them through the years.

From the beginning these items were always a grey area and I always said if Tamiya asked TC to stop we would do so - that time has come.

As part of my argument I did point out that were were simply providing a service to user who wanted to repair their old models and much of the information was no longer available.

Its my feeling the rereleases has stirred things up a little.

They understand the requirement for these manuals and point out that many are available as parts, and an increasing number are being made available via their own site.

The alternative to complying with their demands was the prospect of a long drawn out legal battle, with no guarantee of success. Either way there would be costs in time, money and stress I could not afford.

I appreciate your support throughout the matter but this particular fight is now over.

I know from experience that Tamiya are a 'funny' company to do business with (not just on this matter) so where as talk of petitions and letters are appreciated, I know they will a) not sway them and :wacko: are likely to antagonize them further.

So that's it. Unless anything changes, which seem highly unlikely, the manuals and decals are now gone from the site.

We must insist that manuals or links to manuals, artwork for decals or associated links are not published on this site anywhere. Please also do not ask me or anyone else associated with the running of the site for copies as we will not supply them.

Regards

Chris

So that's it - no more manuals on TC, and no more advertising copies of manuals or 'reproduction' decals.

Any trades offering or requesting such will be deleted I'm afraid

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Well not much else we can do . Life is now over :wacko: For this matter . Sad day :D

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Well not much else we can do . Life is now over :wacko: For this matter . Sad day :D

Yes, looks like Tamiya have contacted everyone who sold decent repros, but it still seems like they dont mind the lower quality ones being sold as they are still for sale on ebay, or maybe they do and not got round to it yet or perhaps those sellers are ignoring Tamiya, who knows?. As a few said im pretty sure someone in China or Thailand will soon fill the gap in the market as it seems they are untouchable when it comes to copyright issues.

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Just had confirmation from Chris, all reproduction/copied parts are now not permitted as trades - this includes reproduction body shells, reproduction decals and reproduction driver figures, regardless of the original brand.

The last thing we need is this kicking off again with Kyosho, HPI etc.

If you have any such items in your traderoom on the main site, please delete them now - it might save me a few minutes.

It's going to take a couple of days to get to every trade, so if yours goes first, please don't complain that others have been left up.

Sorry guys :wacko:

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So how is this going to affect TC in the long run :wacko: .

If it does at all .

Well thanks for the news :D as sad as it is .

But the rules are the rules .

;)

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I think most members are here for both community and the ability to show your models and talk to like-minded folk, but i think there may be quite a few members who joined merely for the manuals section, perhaps they wont re-join but i think the majority will.

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So how is this going to affect TC in the long run :wacko: .

If it does at all .

Well thanks for the news :D as sad as it is .

But the rules are the rules .

;)

It won't affect me at all and I imagine 99% will be the same. We'll still buy all of the kits and our enjoyment of the hobby comes through being a part of a collective community. No point in trying to take it further but it just highlights to me what a blunt instrument Capitalism really is. Shame.

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I think most members are here for both community and the ability to show your models and talk to like-minded folk, but i think there may be quite a few members who joined merely for the manuals section, perhaps they wont re-join but i think the majority will.

+1, I've only been on here a year, but have had lots of good feedback on models I've posted, which has been an encouragement to carry on with tough projects, and have also found TC a great place to buy and sell tamiya parts at reasonable prices. With regard to the manuals, I don't think it's that great a loss, tamiya models aren't exactly rocket science to assemble, and I'm sure there are plenty of people within the club happy to answer 'where does this bit go?' style questions.

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So as I see it I would not be able to advetise my rebuilt Monster beetle on the TC website because the rear number plate broke off 25 years ago and I used a repro sticker on my re-re body parts (bought from tamiya so they got the money, and i would have hapily paid for re-re stckers). Still its saved me the cost of a full membership of the TC, pity i can't use that money to do up my old models.

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Sad Day Indeed......So be it....Some passion now lost.

With any future models that go in my showroom I will just leave out in the description about the decals sourced or parts used. Specifically reference to genuine or non-genuine, that will be censored!!!...if there are any offending parts in a photo they will be fogged out :wacko:

Possible future description. For example

"Here I have finished my Monster Beetle. Nice Italian Red used. The decals used certainly make this Monster Beetle standout."

"Due to a broken part I was no longer able to source I had to use a ##### to finish off this lovely Monster Beetle"

"I purchased this Monster Beetle with no Manual. I cannot afford or justify the $150 another seller is asking for a manual on Ebay, so I had to use some ingenuity. My finished Monster Beetle might look funny but that is how I assumed it was built using my imagination ;) "

Tamiya the release 58500 had better be good, just to take our minds off this kick in the n%ts you have given us......Otherwise its TRAXXAS all the way for me, well maybe :D

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a few years ago tamiya ran one of its website contests for scale model building. I remember something happened with one of the winners and there was a lawsuit against tamiya to stop the use of the photo on the website. other forums had a debate on who owned the photos because to enter the contest it was stated tamiya would gain all rights to the photos submitted.

I don't know what ever happened to the photos, or case, or the contest.

i do remember at the time a similar fight was going on with Ford motor cars, Ford claimed it owned all rights for all fords because its logo was viable in the photos i remember a big protest in the ford community then somebody leaked information that ford was attempting to sue companies that did custom work on ford cars arguing they were modifying something the company owned, and some how it Usurped private ownership. The entire thing from ford was eventually dropped as bad press about it grew.

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You are right Tamiyadan. I remember the Ford claim. It even extended to the diecast car companies. Ford claimed not only the use of the blue oval but also the use of the "shape" of the cars. I guess they indeed dropped the case at a certain time because Ford models (RC and diecast) were available again. Ferrari did the same. That's why on the boxes of Ferrari models (RC and diecast) the hologram sticker was added. If money making from models it is what they are after it is not good.

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