58044 Pajero decals

[Jumpinugly 0]

Well gang it actually COULD be worse.

They could go the Kyosho route and just THROW EVERYTHING AWAY! All the OEM and NOS in the TRASH CAN

on some series runs because of "warehouse space" concerns!

I wonder how much material Tamiya has thrown out. I am sure they have the blanks and decal files on every

body and decal they ever produced. Obviously re-issues of classic kits shows someone there is aware of the

collector market. I'd be stunned if they don't have someone who watches ebay or this club for them, if only for

"market" trends.

Best, Jumpinugly

[TamiyaDan 8]

Well gang it actually COULD be worse.

They could go the Kyosho route and just THROW EVERYTHING AWAY! All the OEM and NOS in the TRASH CAN

on some series runs because of "warehouse space" concerns!

I wonder how much material Tamiya has thrown out. I am sure they have the blanks and decal files on every

body and decal they ever produced. Obviously re-issues of classic kits shows someone there is aware of the

collector market. I'd be stunned if they don't have someone who watches ebay or this club for them, if only for

"market" trends.

Best, Jumpinugly

They did throw all the old things away.

there was an article on tamiya using a new 3d Scanner to re-create the Sand scorcher beetle body from one in there museum, Why they chose to use a monster beetle version i'll never understand but the article showed a red version of the monster beetle body being scanned directly into CAD drawings which were then modified and made into a 3d cast on a rapid prototyper. This was exciting at the time because it showed how easily things could be recreated using new technology. In the future its possible everyone will have a 3d printer in there home as an appliance and you would be able to make anything you wanted on the fly. Tamiya talked about how a user would pay for the file to be used on the 3d printer online and then the part or kit would be unlocked for them to produce. Basically it boiled down to a discussion on the the price of information in the future since storage and manufacture would switch to the end user.

[nosthevamp 1]

We don't know what the future holds. Maybe Tamiya are planning to re-release a range of vintage decals and/or bodies or they may allow licensed repro's - we just don't know. I'd be surprised if some of the bean counters at Tamiya haven't already worked out what's viable and what isn't.

I'm sure we'll start to see new or re-designed decal sheets popping up on the bay before long, maybe bodies too, as people find ways to work round the current restrictions.

In time we may find that we've got more choice than ever - re-released stuff, licensed repros and 'work-around' bodies and decals. Who knows?

None of this has changed my opinion of Tamiya or my planned purchases. My brand loyalty is based on the fact that they produce wonderful kits that have brought many, many hours of enjoyment to me and my family.

This is not impossible. Not sure of the situation now, but when Mercedes Benz cars where made by the Daimler Benz AG, no car was considered "out of date", any part for any car made by the company right back to the 1886 Benz, could be supplied. Their cars had long production runs and mechanicals where shared between models. When a part was updated it would usually fit the older version. Where parts where not in stck they would be made by their "old timer" dept. Maybe Tamiya are considering doing something along these lines. I beleive Airfix re-re'd many of their early models many times (although the price of the basic kits did rise in price from the 2s 11d I used to pay for them in 1970). Perhaps Tamiya are planning on doing something similar. As another example I knocked knocked my 6 or 7 year old Corgi Bristol Brittania of the shelf a short time ago and broke the undercarrage, so I wrote to Corgi and they sent me the new parts. As I say no reason for Tamiya not to do the same.

[Live Steam Mad 17]

They did throw all the old things away.

there was an article on tamiya using a new 3d Scanner to re-create the Sand scorcher beetle body from one in there museum, Why they chose to use a monster beetle version i'll never understand but the article showed a red version of the monster beetle body being scanned directly into CAD drawings which were then modified and made into a 3d cast on a rapid prototyper. This was exciting at the time because it showed how easily things could be recreated using new technology. In the future its possible everyone will have a 3d printer in there home as an appliance and you would be able to make anything you wanted on the fly. Tamiya talked about how a user would pay for the file to be used on the 3d printer online and then the part or kit would be unlocked for them to produce. Basically it boiled down to a discussion on the the price of information in the future since storage and manufacture would switch to the end user.

PLEASE can you remember anything else about this article which would help me Google it or have you got a link? Would like to see that article.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

[TamiyaDan 8]

PLEASE can you remember anything else about this article which would help me Google it or have you got a link? Would like to see that article.

Cheers,

Alistair G.

this was at least 3 years ago. i remember there was a video link to youtube showing the body scanned in, it was in Japanese.

i was honestly more interested in the technology and later went to Jay leno's garage where there was a similar video in making car parts.

the jay leno video is still around, i doubt the tamiya one is.

there was another article about it in some online hobby magazine but i don't remember who did it. it was not Car action.

[BeetleLover 4]

My feelings are that we are unlikely to see Tamiya reproduce vintage decals in their original format i.e. original authentic sponsors etc. If the landmark decision to re-release the sand scorcher wasn't big enough for Tamiya to reconsider getting licenses for authentic sponsor decals I doubt the few people creating reproduction decals will prove to be a bigger incentive. I wonder if recreating the actual marking's and colour details on a decal set are less of a problem? I keep an old style photo album with the lift up film to store all my left over decals and sponsors I have collected over the years, if I could only get stripes and main panel decals I could then fill the gaps. I would like to know if it's the recreation of the branding/trademarks that create the real issues in terms of copyright or the recreation of a colour marking/stripe design?

James

[simondo 0]

I can see where Tamiya are coming from, but they have no idea of spare part supply or public relations.

They have/had a real opportunity to make some big bucks, increase interest in the hobby and keep old customers happy and loyal.

But instead they screwed it right up in my opinion.

The fact that they are being so heavy handed with the "repro" market and re-releasing old models smacks of running out of creativity.

The very first thing they should have done was set up a webshop to be able to order sensibly priced spares, or get one of or two of the decent eBay sellers in each country suitably equipped.

Once we could get parts at a sensible price then natural competition would have forced the "repro" market to adapt.

As it is Tamiya come across as really not caring for their customers, and this will effect current and future customers. as a wise trader once told me "its hard to keep customers loyal...but it is twice as hard to get them back when they have gone"

On the positive side, there is an opportunity for some creative thinking from the "repro" suppliers, and this could create a whole new genre of of Tamiya variations. Lets be honest, not ALL Tamiya designs are that pretty, especially some of the later models.Same with some of the decals.

I was thinking of treating myself to a new kit (re-re or new model)later in the year, but don`t trust the spares situation. A lot of people rely on the aftermarket kit to make up for Tamiya`s abysmal after sales parts supply.

Still gonna stick with my current Tamiya `s though, and instead of my money going on a new kit, it may well have to be spent on some over inflated bodyshells and decals.

[TamiyaDan 8]

whats interesting, Since the reproductions have now voided off ebay, the original decals have been relisted anywhere from 50$ to over 400$ depending on model.

so you know all those people that were about to restore a model they got cheap will be dumping them back onto the market since they are now un-restoreable and good for parts only.

started noticing all the project cars suddenly hitting ebay.

[simondo 0]

whats interesting, Since the reproductions have now voided off ebay, the original decals have been relisted anywhere from 50$ to over 400$ depending on model.

so you know all those people that were about to restore a model they got cheap will be dumping them back onto the market since they are now un-restoreable and good for parts only.

started noticing all the project cars suddenly hitting ebay.

I have noticed this too......could be time to bag a bargain!

.

.

Trouble is most of the projects usually need shells...

[zakspeed 187]

I've kept an avid eye on this and tried to keep out of it as my view is one of dismay and probably best that I thought about what I wrote before I dived in.

For me it dosn't wash that Tamiya can't reissue with sponser decals on - a while back 2004 ish ?? earlier ? Tamiya reissued the body set for the Subaru Brat well before the kit was reissued. They reproduced the decals in original form (granted they were shiny as opposed to the original dull finish of the original) But the decals were as original with the Penzoil and NGK decals ..

I can see why they made there own sponsers up but it dosn't wash with me that they can't do it again. I remember all those threads from years ago saying they would never reissue the Scorcher !!

I think Tamiya turned a blind eye to it for a long while, it's only when modern technology has come in thats made replicating them easier and the market has slowly been flooded with decals. Whats a real shame is that the majority of these decals were of very poor quality. I've only found Tamiya ones to be excellant.

Lucklily i've toned down my rebuilds and the ones I have left to do (a Scorcher and a Hilux) I bought the decals for them from TC about 6 months ago. I think I need to retire from restoring and build some of my NIB kits for a change.

As for reissues, I did want the Fast Attack buggy - it's the only thats really flotted my boat since the Brat - but I think i'll leave the money in my pocket for now.. As always lets wait and see...

[Corpse Thrower 16]

If Tamiya re-issue the old decals as they were originally, then this can only be a good thing. Tamiya quality slaughters the repros.

One point I will make is: I'm sure Tamiya aren't stupid, and I'm sure they would realize that the enthusiast would much rather have genuine stickers than fakes. Surely then its still pointless to enforce copyright when they know that the only reason we don't buy the products from them is that they don't make them?

I think that its only them flexing the pecs in front of the girls.

Also, does this mean that the sticker guys can still produce the sticker sheets with the original vintage stickers (Bel-Ray, etc) if they leave off any stickers that Tamiya still produces on their sheets? That wouldn't be breaking "Tamiya law", would it?

[TamiyaDan 8]

If Tamiya re-issue the old decals as they were originally, then this can only be a good thing. Tamiya quality slaughters the repros.

Horse hockey, screenprinters in the uk actually made better then oem decals.

[BeetleLover 4]

I can see why they made there own sponsers up but it dosn't wash with me that they can't do it again. I remember all those threads from years ago saying they would never reissue the Scorcher !!

It's a little different as Tamiya own the rights to the Sand Scorcher, the branded/trademarked sponsors belong to their respective companies. From my knowledge of licensing, it is very complex, expensive and often conditions are attached to their usage, that could be just to use one Brand let alone multiples on just one model. I've recently seen how long it can take for a licensing agreement come to fruition, needless to say it took a very long time. Years ago I suspect companies thought it were cool that they were represented on scale models, these days everyone has their hand out for a piece of the pie and the protection surrounding Trademarks and Branding is taken very very seriously...

I don't see it happening but I guess we will have to see... your move Tamiya...

James

[Corpse Thrower 16]

Horse hockey, screenprinters in the uk actually made better then oem decals.

I'm yet to see it. Even Tamiyaclub's own decals weren't even close to the quality of the originals.

[VagabondStarJXF 350]

Compared my Clod tamiyoman repros to the originals and tamiyoman's decals were much crisper and more defined than the originals.

[simondo 0]

Now, i`m no expert on copyright or trademark law or intellectual property law etc, so this is probably wrong,but I know of companies who produce items in other hobbies and it seems like if the advertising of product does not mention the company they copying products from or imply the are replicas,then it seems like they are OK.

for example " simondo beetle wing - will fit Volkswagen beetle but can be used on any vehicle with modification" and the beetle wing is an exact copy of a Volkwagen beetle wing, but I do not claim it is, or make any other mention of association with Volkswagen other than it will fit their car.

Or "Simondo monster beetle sticker set - can be used on Radio controlled cars such as Tamiya, kyosho, schumacher and many others"....and the sticker set is identical, maybe with a few extra decals, maybe even mix two sets of stickers together such as black foot and monster beetle, maybe even do the stripes longer and as someone said earlier in the thread, split the words up.

If the name of the product was unique to Tamiya, like when ford invented the car name "mondeo" then it may be a bit more complex.

Just my take on it. If i had had a nice little sideline in producing Tamiya style RC decals for the last couple of years then I would do some subtle changes to description and advertising and see how it went, whilst doing a bit of research into the relevant laws

I can`t see Tamiya being able to make things stick in court when I can can go out tomorrow and buy all sorts of "replica*" items from brands bigger than Tamiya.

* Items that can be used in place of original items, but do not claim to be replica items and are not advertised as such.

[Rayman011 0]

You are on the right track Simondo. I posted Australian copyright, design and IP law here, post #74 http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?...60&start=60 In the pink text is the important areas that are relevant to the situation. Copyright is lost if the item is used industrially, meaning if it is made into a product to be sold. If the Tamiya name is not used directly for advertising and the Tamiya name and logo are not used on the item, then there is nothing they can do about it. Tamiya are just trying to throw their weight around and if I was producing compatible items, even in original design, I would continue, but without the Tamiya name or logo. Also, Tamiya have no other names or logo's registered in Australia in any capacity, besides the Tamiya name and 2 star logo. They don't own Sand Scorcher, Avante, Monster Beetle etc.

[TWINSET 1793]

I think we'll call it a day on this one too - anything that even smells of a repro/replica/tribute/copy decal sheet/bodyshell etc. will no longer be permitted on TamiyaClub either as a trade or a showroom entry.

Whether it's a repro/replica/tribute/copy in a legal sense or not, if it looks enough like them it could cause serious problems for TamiyaClub.

Any objections, please take them up with Netsmith